Druids, wildshape and an extra spell

[Jermz]

I'm currently playing a level 5 human druid who has a Wisdom of 20. Last session he picked up gloves which grant him a +2 bonus to Wisdom, bringing it to 22. This means he now has an extra 2nd level spell.

When he enters wildshape, it stands to reason that his Wisdom score will drop to 20, because the gloves won't be functional. When he changes his form back to human, his Wisdom will rise again to 22. Does this cause him to lose the extra spell for high wisdom, or is it simply suppressed and it returns once he changes back to his natural form?

[atemu1234]

Imagine if you will, a world not just of sight and sound but of mind... you have entered, the rules grey area...

Seriously, I'd go with suppression, because otherwise, what's the point? Just ask your DM in case, however, because this is where the rules stop and the interpretations begin.

[Bronk]

You might want to look into getting a hold of a 'wilding clasp' from the MIC to keep the gloves functional during wild shape and avoid the problem altogether...

[Khedrac]

You might want to look into getting a hold of a 'wilding clasp' from the MIC to keep the gloves functional during wild shape and avoid the problem altogether...
Whilst I agree with the suggestion, do bear in mind that if you transform into a creature without suitable appendages the gloves will still be subsumed, and if you have a claw attack it's going to wreck the gloves.

I think the official rule (not sure where I found it though) is that you lose the spell, the same as if you take them off and put them on again.
Now as to how that works if you have cast a spell of that level - that's back to the grey area.

[Psyren]

Huh, I forgot that was a rule in 3.5. In Pathfinder, only magic armor and shields become nonfunctional when you wildshape - other constant-effect items, like wondrous items on your body that provide stat bonuses, will continue to work.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Huh, I forgot that was a rule in 3.5. In Pathfinder, only magic armor and shields become nonfunctional when you wildshape - other constant-effect items, like wondrous items on your body that provide stat bonuses, will continue to work.

That's not much of a consolation prize when you consider how hard PF nerfed wildshape. I'd rather use 3.5 rules and buy Wilding Clasps.

[Psyren]

That's not much of a consolation prize when you consider how hard PF nerfed wildshape. I'd rather use 3.5 rules and buy Wilding Clasps.

It's perfectly consoling to me as both a DM and a player, but I won't turn this into yet another edition war. I just thought it was interesting.

[Bronk]

Whilst I agree with the suggestion, do bear in mind that if you transform into a creature without suitable appendages the gloves will still be subsumed, and if you have a claw attack it's going to wreck the gloves.


Hmm, true. Perhaps he can trade them in for a periapt of wisdom +2 at the next city... maybe at a temple full of clerics? Gloves of +2 wisdom are the only item called out in the MIC as a 'nonsensical' item that the DM should avoid making after all.

[Jermz]

Right, I take it that there's no real RAW ruling on this issue. I'll see if I can swap the gloves for some other +2 Wisdom item, that's probably a good start. But it still doesn't solve the problem, which ultimately seems like it comes down to the DM. If I were DMing, I'd probably say that the player loses the spell, similar to when they take ability damage or penalties. But I probably wouldn't give that kind of item in the first place to the druid, in order to avoid these situations. I'd probably hand out an Incandescent Blue Ioun Stone, which also grants the same bonus. Maybe I can talk to the DM and see if that works.

[Bronk]

Right, I take it that there's no real RAW ruling on this issue. I'll see if I can swap the gloves for some other +2 Wisdom item, that's probably a good start. But it still doesn't solve the problem, which ultimately seems like it comes down to the DM. If I were DMing, I'd probably say that the player loses the spell, similar to when they take ability damage or penalties. But I probably wouldn't give that kind of item in the first place to the druid, in order to avoid these situations. I'd probably hand out an Incandescent Blue Ioun Stone, which also grants the same bonus. Maybe I can talk to the DM and see if that works.

Well, you could try asking over at the main question thread. I remember that it has come up several times, although maybe a number of threads ago. If I remember right, the general consensus was that if your main spellcasting stat got lowered for any reason (spell, poison, taking off an enhancement item) you would just lose access to those spell slots until such time as you got your ability back up to the same level. The idea was that it made more sense to think of it as the same spell slot each time it appeared.

First, because you might start thinking of it as some kind of self rejuvenating spell slot that you could get back every time you took off an item and put it back on. I think they call this out specifically somewhere for a similar problem that paladins have with how much they can heal with their lay on hands ability.

And second, because regular spell slots aren't lost when you lower an ability score, and spells are only lost from them when you're hit by negative levels and such.

Good luck!