My New Human Fighter, asking for some advice

[Lexith Mallus]

Hello all,
Never posted in the forums so here it goes,

I have just entered into a new adventure (solely being played through roll20 online).
I have chosen to play a human fighter named Lexith.
Lexith is a different kind of fighter though, he specializes in using javelins as a primary form of dealing damage.
He can however quick draw his long sword and hold his own in melee.

I like how he worked out at level one as far as combat is considered, and he has now gain enugh experience to move on to level two.

I'm thinking of taking a one time dip into rogue.
My thoughts in doing this are not from an optimization standpoint (however I think this will make him more lethal at level 2), but for a role-playing component consistent with this particular character's story.

The reason I am making this thread is to ask for some advice in moving forward in playing a fighter using javelins primarily.
To use any material outside of the core 3.5e books I'm going to really have to badger my DM, so I'd like to keep advice material to those books.

Thank you all in advance for any advice,

-Lex

[Troacctid]

Seems solid. Rogue gives you some extra damage, a boost to your Reflex, and a bunch of skill points to make you more versatile. You could do a lot worse.

You might also consider taking a few levels in Ranger and going into Horizon Walker, which is one of the better options for martial classes in a core-only game.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Core only fighter, eh?

That's a tough row to hoe. How high a level is this campaign supposed to go?

[Arguar]

Lex, would you be willing to give a summary of your character's backstory, and the general flavor you're going for with him? Info on the type of campaign your DM's running would be of immense help as well. Nonetheless, I assume that you're interested in doing some Fighter/Rogue because Lexith comes from a 'harsh urban' background, but the fact that he uses javelins - a relatively crude weapon by 3.5's standards - implies that he's from a lower-tech civilization, which makes me think Ranger or Barb would be more fitting.

Also, I agree with Troacctd about a Rogue dip being worth it - though if you're less interested in sneak attacks and more interested in additional ranged specialization, Ranger's a good way to go.

By the way, is your DM counting Multiclass experience penalties? I'm not the most informed on how one-time class dips effect that, but it may be worth it to check.

[Lexith Mallus]

Kelb,
The campaign is massive, and I assume I will end up maxing out this character.

Arguar,
Summarized Character back story,

Poor kid from the streets of Valone, (A southern province in the campaign, think Italy), had to fight for everything and raise himself.

Joined the army in order to recieve some small pay, and expierience.

Struck it out on his own after being in an extreme survival situation that left the rest of his regiment dead.
Sorta a 'shell shocked' or PTSD kinda thing going on.
War messed him up real bad.

Turned to adventuring to gain treasure/influence

Neutral Evil kinda guy, sort of thinks that the only constant thing on this plane is death, doesn't believe in any of the 'Gods'.

Any other info you need?

EDIT:
He has a fondness for Javelins because I thought it would make for an interesting build, havent really worked that into his story, any ideas there?

DM has layed out a huge world where all quests are status quo, not sure what else to add, all types of encounters here

[Kelb_Panthera]

Have you considered dragon disciple? Or maybe horizon walker? Trying to stick to mostly fighter you're going to run out of good feats to pick long before 20.

You might even consider making the horizon tripper.

[Lexith Mallus]

I'm not familiar with these PrCs can you site materials please.

[torrasque666]

I'm not familiar with these PrCs can you site materials please.
Technically DMG, though they can be found on the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm)(which is mostly core, though it also has psionics,epic, and variants)

[ngilop]

Instead of rogue have you thought of using Scout?

you get a D8 for HP medium attack progression a good reflex/bad everything else saves and 6 skill points per level.

THEN you also get trapfidning (just like a rogue) but instead of sneak attack, you get skirmish, which deals (at 1st level) an extra 1d6 points of damage if you move 10 or more feet in a given round.


If you are going to be tossing javelins, you just seem o strike me as the perfect example of a Skirmisher, hit-and-run tactics are your bread and butter


Scouts get most ( maybe all?) of the goddis rogues get as well, evasion, uncanny dodge, etc etc


even better they get thing like battle fortitude ( bonus to fort and initiative) permananet freedom of movement, hide in plain sight ad camouflage.


Its actually pretty good of a class, Complete Adventuere page 10.

[torrasque666]

Its actually pretty good of a class, Complete Adventuere page 10.
Mostly Core dude. DM is apparently resistant to non-core material.

[Lexith Mallus]

Instead of rogue have you thought of using Scout?

I like the idea of getting the skirmish bonus as apposed to the sneak attack, however I would be losing the open lock skill unfortunately. I'll have to weigh this into my decision.
Thanks for your input.

[torrasque666]

I like the idea of getting the skirmish bonus as apposed to the sneak attack, however I would be losing the open lock skill unfortunately. I'll have to weigh this into my decision.
Thanks for your input.
IIRC Disable Device can be used a substitute for Open Lock. Forget the source for that rule though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm not familiar with these PrCs can you site materials please.

They're both in the DMG. The horizon tripper is a famous core only warrior build that is very effective. Google it.

[sideswipe]

i know he is resistant... but the brutal throw feat could work for you for damage as you then dont need dex to hit.... but your character is already built.

[Arguar]

Poor kid from the streets of Valone, (A southern province in the campaign, think Italy), had to fight for everything and raise himself.

Joined the army in order to recieve some small pay, and expierience.

Struck it out on his own after being in an extreme survival situation that left the rest of his regiment dead.
Sorta a 'shell shocked' or PTSD kinda thing going on.
War messed him up real bad.

Turned to adventuring to gain treasure/influence

Neutral Evil kinda guy, sort of thinks that the only constant thing on this plane is death, doesn't believe in any of the 'Gods'.

Any other info you need?

EDIT:
He has a fondness for Javelins because I thought it would make for an interesting build, havent really worked that into his story, any ideas there?

Nice and succinct - that gives me plenty to work with. Sounds like Rogue is your ideal secondary class, and being able to put a lot of points into intimidate, open lock, and other stuff that allows him to use the world as he sees fit works. The fact that he is now striking out into ancient ruins and other places for wealth means that disarming/dodging traps and unlocking vaults are good skills to have.

As for his use of javelins, there are a few flavor suggestions I can give out;

First, since Valone is based on Italy, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that the province used to be like real-world Rome. The Roman army had a distinct type of javelin called a pilum (really nasty things from a tactical sense, check their wikipedia entry if you want to know more) - given that bows are hard to use, you could argue that present-day Valone trains their infantry units to use slings and thrown weapons. This option can guarantee reasoning from Lexith's military background.

Second, since he had a rough childhood, easy-to-make weapons such as a wooden javelin made out of a broomstick would serve Lexith well. Granted, javelins aren't a subtle weapon, but Lexith could have been one of the kids who survived more through brawn than guile. This also gives you the chance to invest some skill points into whatever allows you to craft javelins when your good ones run out.

Third, and this is the biggest reason I've almost played a throwing character - you can use a shield. While that may hinder Lexith during more subtle work, like picking locks or sneaking around, an advantage you have against an archer in open combat is that you can have more AC. Would I carry a tower shield around as a rogue? No, but having something bigger than a buckler in your group's supply wagon or bag-o-holdin' will save your hide when you need it. Also, I imagine Lexith's drive to survive would back his desire to be protected.

Alright, not as easy-to-digest as your response Lex, but I hope those options give you somewhere to go.

[Sith_Happens]

Core feats that help javelin-throwers:

Mandatory:

Quick Draw
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot

Recommended:

Far Shot
Improved Precise Shot

Optional:

Two-Weapon Fighting
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

Decide which of the above you want and take exactly as many Fighter levels as it takes to get all of them ASAP (this will probably involve taking some of said levels non-consecutively). If you decide against Two-Weapon Fighting then use a heavy shield and take Improved Shield Bash; extra AC and something to attack with in melee is better than your offhand doing nothing.

For the rest of your levels, I second the Horizon Walker or Dragon Disciple suggestion. You might also consider some Barbarian.

A WARNING: You've implied that you're not very concerned with optimization. Hopefully you're serious about that, because throwing is one of the least effective ways to deal damage in Core with any class, so you're likely to get severely shown up by any teammate with a big sword. Also be aware that depending on how the party casters play, your job in combat may amount to cleanup after they've finished splitting up the enemies and/or debuffing them into oblivion.

[sideswipe]

you could always dip wizard or sorcerer if you prefer the natural ability fluff. for true strike. or cleric for a couple of buffs. rogue will give you damage you lack, ranger will provide free feats (take the two weapon ranger :smallwink: then use feats for ranged ones) barbarian is great if you have a higher strength then dex and beg your DM for brutal throw like i mentioned.

the good thing about sorcerer is you could fluff it with your dm to be things like trick shots and moments of inspiration to give buffs.

[Lexith Mallus]

Arguar,

Thanks for the ideas, I really like most of the stuff you gave me and I plan on working some of that into my back story.
He is currently using a heavy wooden shield, and a chain shirt. So those both yield a +6 total to AC, that along with his stats...
STR: 18
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 8
He has a pair of bracers that grant +2 AC as well, so his total AC is 22. He's not going to be taking much damage.

Sith Happens,

As he was a human fighter at level one he chose
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Quick Draw
as his starting feats.

Next feat is going to be precise shot to eliminate the penalty for throwing into melee.
Far Shot will definitely be taken to be able to drop people with javs at 60ft.
I do really like the idea of shield bashing and think that I'm going to run with that.

sideswipe,

Not really interested in taking any spell casting classes. I don't really think that's his style at all.
Ranger and Barb, however are legitimate options.




Thank you all so much for the guidance! :D

[sideswipe]

Not really interested in taking any spell casting classes. I don't really think that's his style at all.
Ranger and Barb, however are legitimate options.

just remember that unless you use a non core trade off for the rangers spells he will get spellcasting if you take a handful of levels.

[Sith_Happens]

Hm, your DM would have to let you swap out the Rapid Shot you already have, but Fighter 2/Ranger 3 both gets you into Horizon Walker (which you can read here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/horizonWalker.htm) if you haven't already) at the earliest possible level and gives you all of the throwing-related feats at the fastest possible rate (except Improved Precise Shot which has a BAB requirement anyways). Doesn't leave room for a Rogue dip, but Lexith's backstory says "Ranger" more than "Rogue" to me anyways (assuming that "being in an extreme survival situation" would have more of an effect on his future training priorities than "from the streets"). Matter of fact, it gives you the perfect excuse to portray him as a crazy survivalist which it sounds like he'd be at this point.

Moving to the matter of "Non-Core things to beg your DM to let you use," I'd actually put the Master Thrower prestige class from Complete Warrior at the top of the list, though similarly to above this will involve asking to replace your Quick Draw feat with Weapon Focus (since Master Thrower requires the latter and gives you the former). In addition to giving you Quick Draw back, the first level lets you trip people by throwing javelins at them, which is awesome. From there you can either switch to Horizon Walker or continue Master Thrower for more throwing-related goodness.