How do you play a phantasmal killer spell as a surprise?

[Kol Korran]

In a campaign I DM, the module suggests phantasm killer traps. It's supposed to represent deep fears and such, which I think could be nicely thematic and nice epilepsy opportunity.
But... how do I make it work in play? How do I keep it as a surprise, so as to get more Real reactions, instead of going "So... wharves your character's most terrifying enemy?" I assume that if I know what enemy it is, I might be able to weave it in, somehow, but how do I learn that without tipping off the players? (Assume that oblue one player gave an inclination of their worst enemy so far, and the trap I supposed to affect all)
Also, what do you do If the worst enemy is someone that has little reason or plausibility of appearing? (Say for example an evil God or demon lord or such?)
Thanks in advance,
Kol.

[Thy Dungeonman]

Any player can just say "Nyuh-uh, my character isn't worstfraid of that," so there's no way to do this like you're saying without forcing a worst fear on a PC. I know some of my players would schwitz about that.

I'm just glad when you use it on an NPC you can only see a vague hint of what they're looking at. Had someone use it on an invisible stalker, what the fudge would one of those be afraid of?

[Kelb_Panthera]

It was always my understanding that the phantasm called up by phantasmal killer was something much deeper than just your worst fear or greatest enemy but rather an amalgam of those most deep-seated, instinctual fears made real. Fire, the unknown, otherness, mortality, loss of the self, and so forth. Describing that in different ways gives the spell a much more .... horrific feel, IMO.

An example: the party fighter comes around the corner in the dungeon corridor and triggers one of the traps. "As Tordek comes around the corner a flicker of movement catches his eye. He looks into the shadows just beyond the light of the torch just in time to witness a squirming .... something come slithering toward him, fast, too fast. Before he can react, the slithering mass of shadows ignites around its edges and leaps at his face in a rush of squallid smoke and tendrils." Naturally that's if he failed the initial will save and you call for the fort save at the end of the description. If he fails, he's struck dead by fear. If not, the "thing" breaks apart and disappears as quickly as it appeared and he's left a bit bit bruised and flumoxed after taking the listed damage.

[BWR]

The biggest problem here is that the moment you ask for saves people will usually guess what's going on. Making some description of it is flavorful but you shouldn't rely on a good description for roleplaying purposes. In this case, I'm with KP that the feelings are the important thing, not the actual creature or situation depicted. I'd use some normally horrifying beastie or situation and focus on how their fear center and reactions go in to overdrive rather than on what causes them. PK's a fear effect, which exaggerates and surpasses any normal fear.
To compare with dragons: they are nigh-immortal, immensely powerful creatures - both physically and magically. Any sensible being would be afraid of them. You might have a phobia of them, for whatever reason, and be reduced to a quivering heap of uselessness by the mere thought of seeing one. Their fear aura imposes the super-steroid version of a phobia on everyone in range. At this point it doesn't really matter if the dragon is a real threat or not, your body and mind are being magically compelled to feel it is scarier than you thought possible.
PK is so damn scary that you could conceivably make a three week old kitten seem the epitome of evil and stop your heart from the sheer terror of the thing. That one would be harder to pull off so the players accept it, but it should work for the PCs.

[Kol Korran]

Any player can just say "Nyuh-uh, my character isn't worstfraid of that," so there's no way to do this like you're saying without forcing a worst fear on a PC. I know some of my players would schwitz about that.

That is exactly once of the thinbgs that this thread is trying to solve. That abd hoow do DMs deal with such a problem, without ruining the roleplay experience


It was always my understanding that the phantasm called up by phantasmal killer was something much deeper than just your worst fear or greatest enemy but rather an amalgam of those most deep-seated, instinctual fears made real. Fire, the unknown, otherness, mortality, loss of the self, and so forth. Describing that in different ways gives the spell a much more .... horrific feel, IMO.

An example: the party fighter comes around the corner in the dungeon corridor and triggers one of the traps. "As Tordek comes around the corner a flicker of movement catches his eye. He looks into the shadows just beyond the light of the torch just in time to witness a squirming .... something come slithering toward him, fast, too fast. Before he can react, the slithering mass of shadows ignites around its edges and leaps at his face in a rush of squallid smoke and tendrils." Naturally that's if he failed the initial will save and you call for the fort save at the end of the description. If he fails, he's struck dead by fear. If not, the "thing" breaks apart and disappears as quickly as it appeared and he's left a bit bit bruised and flumoxed after taking the listed damage. As I understood from the spell it's supposed to be the creature which the target of the spell is most afraid of, but I understand your interpretation as well, which I think is way cooler! :smallamused: I think I can work with something on those lines, sure! Especially for a trap... Thanks! :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

Just ask your players to come up with something their character is deathly afraid of well in advance of using the trap. Trying to come up with something on your own will just fall flat; nobody knows the character better than the person playing it.

[atemu1234]

Invisible Phantasmal Killer?

[Chronos]

Quoth BWR:

The biggest problem here is that the moment you ask for saves people will usually guess what's going on.
Yet another reason why the DM should have copies of everyone's character sheets. When they get to the trap, you roll behind the DM screen, and then start describing. As far as the players can tell, that roll could have been initiative, or a random encounters table. Or, of course, it could have been the DM just rolling dice for no reason but to make the players paranoid, which DMs should also do.

[Scipio_77]

"You hear a slight humming that unnerves you for some strange yet familiar reason (pause). Suddenly horror fills your mind as you see (pause) something. Roll a mind save".

Should work just fine.

[BWR]

Yet another reason why the DM should have copies of everyone's character sheets. When they get to the trap, you roll behind the DM screen, and then start describing. As far as the players can tell, that roll could have been initiative, or a random encounters table. Or, of course, it could have been the DM just rolling dice for no reason but to make the players paranoid, which DMs should also do.

In some cases yes, but in the case of PK there isn't any reason other than brief flavor to do this. It's an instantaneous effect. Two failed saves and a person falls over dead. One or no failed saves and no one dies. Since it's such a quick effect, an either or situation, there won't be any chance to roleplay reactions "You briefly see a giant effing spider in front of you. It's like Ungoliant's great grandma and would make a stone weep with fear, but it does nothing and vanishes before you can react" doesn't exactly mean much beyond flavor. Any successful Spellcraft roll will tell you what the effect is and I would consider it beyond the scope of the spell to expect PCs to have longer lasting reactions than "divine excrement, that caused me to evacuate from fear" to the spell. If the players want to, fine but I wouldn't require it and would be pissed at a DM who insists on me acting in a way the spell doesn't say I must.
Flavor is good, but it's important that it not drag out what may already be a long combat with pointless details.