Longsword vs sneak attack

[Spacehamster]

Does anyone think its fair to let rogues sneak attack with a longsword? Just find it odd that they get proficiency with a weapon they will never use so whats the point?

Spacehamster to infinity and beyond!

[Kryx]

I wouldn't.


Can thrown weapons be used for sneak attack damage? Seems to go against the qualifiers of sneak attack being Ranged-Finesse.
yes, they can. basically, as a DM feel free to let the rogue sneak attack with anything that deals a d6 or less. -M

[Spacehamster]

Okay but then what is the point of them beeing able to use it?

[Gwendol]

Why not? Hand cross-bow and longsword is a decent combo.

[Yuki Akuma]

Okay but then what is the point of them beeing able to use it?

Tradition™.

[HugeC]

My house rules doc says, "A sneak attack may be made with a finesse weapon, a ranged weapon, a one-handed melee weapon, or an unarmed strike."

Of course I haven't actually run a game with that rule in place yet, but one-handed, a longsword is the same damage as a rapier, except you have to use your (probably inferior) Strength bonus to hit and damage. Nothing OP at all about it that I can see, just more options.

[Kryx]

a longsword is the same damage as a rapier

This is true. The difference however is that the longsword could be switched to versatile - giving the longsword more options (maybe switch to Two Handed when they can't sneak).

Other than that it's just the fluff of a longsword doing sneak attacks that is a bit ridiculous imo.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Other than that it's just the fluff of a longsword doing sneak attacks that is a bit ridiculous imo.

I see no problem with it. A sneak attack is a precise and deadly attack from surprise and/or at an opponents vital areas. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to do this with any weapon you're proficient with.

[Spiryt]

Other than that it's just the fluff of a longsword doing sneak attacks that is a bit ridiculous imo.

Fluff of D&D is generally ridiculous, if you want to be harsh with it.:smallsmile:



Weapon that D&D writers generally refer to as 'rapier' would be likely among most ridiculous weapons to perform 'sneak attacks' with.

Well over 1 meter long blade, but dangerous pretty much only with point, that can be effectively used mostly in duel, with a lot of space to perform lunges etc.

Absolutely not a weapon to sneak with, grab someones hair/arm/head and stab them in the neck....

So 'longsword' doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

[mr_odd]

Fluff of D&D is generally ridiculous, if you want to be harsh with it.:smallsmile:



Weapon that D&D writers generally refer to as 'rapier' would be likely among most ridiculous weapons to perform 'sneak attacks' with.

Well over 1 meter long blade, but dangerous pretty much only with point, that can be effectively used mostly in duel, with a lot of space to perform lunges etc.

Absolutely not a weapon to sneak with, grab someones hair/arm/head and stab them in the neck....

So 'longsword' doesn't seem that bad in comparison.

But sneak attack doesn't just refer to sneaky attacks, it also refers to hitting an opponent in a vital spot, finding an opening, just barely getting the right opportunity to deliver a devastating attack, etc. If you take that into account, a lunging rapier would very much make sense.

[Easy_Lee]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it since, at best, the rogue could make a two-handed sneak attack and get one extra point of damage. Big deal. By using strength over dexterity, he's giving up a lot of the class's usefulness and tenacity, so it's really not a good idea for the rogue. Wanting to be a reliable expertise grappler is the only reason why I can see him wanting a strong rogue.

[HugeC]

The reason you want to avoid two-handed sneak attacks (IMO) is Great Weapon Fighting style. Re-roll all 1s and 2s on sneak attack dice sounds kinda OP.

Edit: Well, maybe not OP, but definitely make all rogues want to dip fighter to get it, which isn't how I would want my game to run.

[Joe the Rat]

Really, it's not the two-handed sneak attacks. It's not the longsword. It's the thrown weapons.

Any thrown weapons.

Assassin Rogue + Sharpshooter + Tavern Brawler (for proficiency in improvised weapons) = Bullseye.
Kill the king by throwing a leg of lamb at him.

[randomodo]

Well, is it poorly-seasoned lamb? If so, does it get a damage bonus?

[MadGrady]

Well, is it poorly-seasoned lamb? If so, does it get a damage bonus?

1d6 spicy damage with a Con save vs heartuburn

[comk59]

Yeah, thrown weapons gel great with rogues. I'm actually DMing for a half-orc rogue with hand axes that absolutely destroys in and out of the surprise round.

[MadGrady]

Yeah, thrown weapons gel great with rogues. I'm actually DMing for a half-orc rogue with hand axes that absolutely destroys in and out of the surprise round.

Not to mention letting your allies get up close, and then using their threatening of an enemy to trigger sneak attack with ranged weapon.

[Easy_Lee]

Not to mention letting your allies get up close, and then using their threatening of an enemy to trigger sneak attack with ranged weapon.

Not to mention throwing vials of acid and alchemists fire as improvised weapons with tavern brawler.

[Knaight]

Other than that it's just the fluff of a longsword doing sneak attacks that is a bit ridiculous imo.

They're fast moving weapons that can be used with precision, whether that takes the form of precise aim or just good timing and movement to set up better opportunities. Plus, in the context of a skirmish you can get a nice, hard, significantly more dangerous attack than most up against someone's back with just about any melee weapon provided you managed to maneuver in place beforehand, and weapon skill is one of the more minor factors involved in said maneuvering.

[Feldarove]

I think you can allow it and just be mindful of abuse.

[ChristofRomuald]

Because Longswords are Versatile? Which means the rogue could use it 2h for a 1d10 weapon with sneak attack?

[Easy_Lee]

Because Longswords are Versatile? Which means the rogue could use it 2h for a 1d10 weapon with sneak attack?

As has been stated, one point of damage doesn't make any difference. The real reason is flavor; some people don't like the idea of a rogue using brute strength. I think such people are narrow-minded.

[Eslin]

I just use the 3.5 style, where there's no weapon limit. If the rogue manages to get a sneak attack in with a greataxe, good for him.

[Spacehamster]

I just use the 3.5 style, where there's no weapon limit. If the rogue manages to get a sneak attack in with a greataxe, good for him.

I were thinking to let them use any weapon that is one handed myself. Let the dwarf rogue use his trusty battle axe if he so wishes. ^^

[Eslin]

I were thinking to let them use any weapon that is one handed myself. Let the dwarf rogue use his trusty battle axe if he so wishes. ^^

For the most part using a two-hander is a disadvantage, you might as well let a rogue do that.

[JAL_1138]

I just use the 3.5 style, where there's no weapon limit. If the rogue manages to get a sneak attack in with a greataxe, good for him.

Seconded. I probably won't be limiting it to proficient weapons; lack thereof will make it harder to hit, but probably shouldn't stop it.

[Amnoriath]

The only thing you really need to worry about with this is Barbarian dips for Reckless Attack spamming. Though by RAW you can use a Rapier with Reckless Attack by choosing not to use to the finesse property but it is still there.

[Knaight]

I were thinking to let them use any weapon that is one handed myself. Let the dwarf rogue use his trusty battle axe if he so wishes. ^^

I assure you, you can aim for vulnerable spots with two handed weapons just fine. Take a look at people who are good with spears or two handed swords stabbing things, they can be very precise.

[Talin]

Does anyone think its fair to let rogues sneak attack with a longsword? Just find it odd that they get proficiency with a weapon they will never use so whats the point?

Spacehamster to infinity and beyond!


The Longsword proficiency is compatible with magic items like the Sun Blade which have finesse property and use the long sword proficiency. So I assume its there one for traditions sake, and two for magic items that you KNOW a rogue is going to end up with.

[Malifice]

I just use the 3.5 style, where there's no weapon limit. If the rogue manages to get a sneak attack in with a greataxe, good for him.

My Half Orc Assassin/ Barbarian very much wants to play in your campaign.

[Easy_Lee]

My Half Orc Assassin/ Barbarian very much wants to play in your campaign.

Half-orc barbarian assassin can still sneak attack just by holding a dagger in offhand, using it first attack, then sheathing it to use greataxe for other rounds.

[Malifice]

Half-orc barbarian assassin can still sneak attack just by holding a dagger in offhand, using it first attack, then sheathing it to use greataxe for other rounds.

Was more looking at the auto crit on a surprise round.

Half Orc Barbarian 5/ Assasin 3 with GWF

9d12+4d6+18 on the surprise round.

Not surprise round = attack with advantage every round. 2d12+2d6+12. Bonus attack (and d12's) on a critical.

Then its a 3 level dip in Fighter for Action Surge, Great weapon style and 19-20 Crit, then Barbarian all the way.

Surprise round nova at 20th:

25d12+4d6+40. Reroll 1's and 2's. Maybe also poison.

[Easy_Lee]

Was more looking at the auto crit on a surprise round.

Half Orc Barbarian 5/ Assasin 3 with GWF

9d12+4d6+18 on the surprise round.

Not surprise round = attack with advantage every round. 2d12+2d6+12. Bonus attack (and d12's) on a critical.

Then its a 3 level dip in Fighter for Action Surge, Great weapon style and 19-20 Crit, then Barbarian all the way.

Surprise round nova at 20th:

25d12+4d6+40. Reroll 1's and 2's. Maybe also poison.

You only get sneak attack once per round, but nobody is saying you can't dip three into assassin to get auto-crit on surprise round. In fact, the rules pretty clearly state that you can, regardless of weapon used.

[Malifice]

You only get sneak attack once per round, but nobody is saying you can't dip three into assassin to get auto-crit on surprise round. In fact, the rules pretty clearly state that you can, regardless of weapon used.

Sneak attack only added once above.

Just nice to use the 2d6 you get for the 3 level dip into assasin (to get auto-crit and expertise) more often.

[ghost_warlock]

I'm definitely in favor of rogues being able to sneak attack with any weapon they're proficient in, versatile or not. Because sometimes the most important rule is being able to do what's fun and awesome. Especially when you're never going to be tossing fireballs or opening gates to other planes.

http://i.imgur.com/U3eiEi1.jpg