Tier 1 Familiars?

[FrancisBean]

This is inspired by a one-shot I'll be running. The premise: your character is a familiar to an ECL 20 arcane caster. Your master is -- somehow -- out of play. You need to work on your own.

You may tailor your arcane caster as far as you like, since we only care about the familiar. We'll assume the caster's WBL guidelines for items usable by familiars.

Anything 3.5, WotC, no Dragon Mag. What's your best?

[sideswipe]

lets make it simple.... an iron golem.

[Extra Anchovies]

Imp. Flight, fast healing, at-will invisibility, alternate form into various innocuous animals, plus my master has probably cast Imbue with Spell Ability (after all, it doubles your action economy with spells). Put some ranks in UMD and you're set.

[deuxhero]

My master is an Arcane Hierophant. Done.

[(Un)Inspired]

My master has shapechanged me into a zodar.

[Extra Anchovies]

My master is an Arcane Hierophant. Done.

Fleshraker may be a nice combat form, but I don't think it's got much on flight, fast healing, and at-will invisibility.

Also, if you want damage, a Musteval Guardinal can do the trick. Start each round underground, surface, Magic Missile, descend (thanks to Focused Movement), end turn. You also get to be a tiny ferret-man, which is pretty cool.

[Vaz]

I am an Epic Wizard as my Master is a Deity.

[With a box]

Is that possisble to give familiar some feat?
I'm thinking about leadership.

[sideswipe]

Is that possisble to give familiar some feat?
I'm thinking about leadership.

what's the range of embrace/ shun the dark chaos

[Tambourine]

My master is an Arcane Hierophant. Done.

No, no.

What you need is, hmmm.

• Paladin 5 for smite evil and special mount.
• Druid 3 for animal companion, wild empathy, 2nd-level divine spells, and Trackless Step.
• Sorcerer 1 for familiar.
• Precocious Apprentice for 2nd-level spells.
• Halfling Outrider 7 (requires halfling, BAB +5, Listen 3, Ride 6, Spot 3, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery) for +7 levels of paladin mount and +7 levels of druid companion.
• Devoted Tracker (requires Track, smite evil, and wild empathy) to designate mount as animal companion, gaining all the benefits of both.
• Arcane Hierophant 4 (requires nonlawful, BAB +4, Knowledge [arcana] 8 and Knowledge [nature] 8, 2nd-level arcane spells, 2nd-level divine spells) to designate animal companion as familiar and for +4 levels of arcane familiar and +4 levels of animal companion.
• Dragon Steed (requires Cha 13, Ride 8, and Speak Language [Draconic]) to replace a special mount with a dragon. With 12 effective paladin levels it can be a wyrmling gold dragon.
• Natural Bond (requires animal companion) for +3 to effective druid level.
• Celestial Mount (requires Paladin 4) for the celestial creature template.

This results in a wyrmling gold dragon with special mount benefits as per Paladin 5-7 (originally Paladin 12 but reduced by Dragon Steed mechanics), animal companion benefits as per druid 17, and familiar benefits as per Sorcerer 5. This means +12 HD (total of 20), +17 natural armor (total of +24), +6 Str (total of 23), empathic link, improved evasion, devotion, Multiattack, share spells, share saving throws (which should be pretty high with all that multiclassing), deliver touch spells, and speak with master, as well as (from Celestial Mount) DR 10/magic, SR 25, and resistance 5 to cold/acid/electricity.

[deuxhero]

Even with the UA variant Paladins, there's no way to swing Paladin AND Druid on the same build.

[Extra Anchovies]

Even with the UA variant Paladins, there's no way to swing Paladin AND Druid on the same build.

Dip beastmaster? Beastmaster 1 has the companion of a 4th-level druid.

[Troacctid]

Dip beastmaster? Beastmaster 1 has the companion of a 4th-level druid.

Aren't there druid class features in the prerequisites for Arcane Hierophant?

[Tambourine]

Even with the UA variant Paladins, there's no way to swing Paladin AND Druid on the same build.

Ah, dang. Hmm.


Dip beastmaster? Beastmaster 1 has the companion of a 4th-level druid.

You need Trackless Step for Arcane Hierophant.

OA bamboo spirit folk with beastmaster might do it.

[OldTrees1]

Even with the UA variant Paladins, there's no way to swing Paladin AND Druid on the same build.

Open up your magazines. There are 13 paladin base classes. Even a TN Paladin.

[Kraken]

Define "out of play." Because a persistomancer could have been sharing all of their buffs (notably shapechange) with their familiar. As long as the familiar can keep their incapacitated-but-still-alive master by their side (hoard gullet? :smallbiggrin: ), all on its own a familiar rocking shapechange and UMD is a force to be reckoned with.

[Tambourine]

Open up your magazines. There are 13 paladin base classes. Even a TN Paladin.

Note the "no dragon mag" in the OP.

How about this?

• Bamboo spirit folk for trackless step.
• Duskblade 3, Precocious Apprentice, and Obtain Familiar for 2nd-level spells and 3 levels of familiar.
• Cleric 2 and Prestige Paladin 2 (requires BAB +4, Knowledge [religion] 2, Knowledge [nobility and royalty] 2, Ride 4, Mounted Combat, protection from evil as a divine spell, turn undead) for smite evil, 2nd level divine spells (on Cleric), and 5 levels of special mount.
• Beastmaster 1 (requires Handle Animal 8, Survival 4, Skill Focus [Handle Animal]) for 4 levels of druid companion and wild empathy.
• Devoted Tracker (requires Track, smite evil, and wild empathy) to designate mount as animal companion, gaining all the benefits of both.
• Halfling Outrider 10 (requires halfling, BAB +5, Listen 3, Ride 6, Spot 3, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery) for +10 levels of paladin mount and +10 levels of druid companion.
• Arcane Hierophant 2 (requires nonlawful, BAB +4, Knowledge [arcana] 8 and Knowledge [nature] 8, 2nd-level arcane spells, 2nd-level divine spells) to designate animal companion as familiar and for +2 levels of arcane familiar and +2 levels of animal companion.
• Dragon Steed (requires Cha 13, Ride 8, and Speak Language [Draconic]) to replace a special mount with a dragon. With 12 effective paladin levels it can be a wyrmling gold dragon.
• Natural Bond (requires animal companion) for +3 to effective druid level.

This should result in a wyrmling gold dragon with special mount benefits as per Paladin 8-10 (originally Paladin 15 but reduced by Dragon Steed mechanics), animal companion benefits as per druid 19, and familiar benefits as per Sorcerer 5. This means +16 HD (total of 24), +21 natural armor (total of +28), +8 Str (total of 25), and all that stuff I mentioned before except for the celestial template, plus special mount improved speed.

I'm trying to figure out a way to squeeze in more paladin progression, but the +4 BAB minimum makes that tricky.

[ktccd]

How are you both a bamboo spiritfolk AND a halfling?

[Tambourine]

How are you both a bamboo spiritfolk AND a halfling?

Well, you know how those halflings get around...

Hmm. Maybe a halfling reincarnated as a bamboo spiritfolk? That one seems easier to cheese around the edges of than the druid/paladin alignment issue.

Are there any other classes or variants around that give trackless step?

[Kraken]

Wildrunner (Races of the Wild) grants trackless step at first level. Not exactly a great option, though.

[FrancisBean]

Define "out of play." Because a persistomancer could have been sharing all of their buffs (notably shapechange) with their familiar. As long as the familiar can keep their incapacitated-but-still-alive master by their side (hoard gullet? :smallbiggrin: ), all on its own a familiar rocking shapechange and UMD is a force to be reckoned with.

Well, in the one-shot I'm planning, the master will be petrified but conscious, unable to cast any spells (even with silent/still/etc); but able to maintain the empathic link within the one mile range.

Hoard Gullet... Strictly speaking, I don't see any reason why the familiar couldn't swallow the petrified master. I'm not sure I'd want to repeat the over-the-table comments in my mother's sainted presence, though! :smalleek:

[Tambourine]

Wildrunner (Races of the Wild) grants trackless step at first level. Not exactly a great option, though.

It also requires being an elf or half-elf, so I'd have to find a way for a halfling to count as one of those, or vice versa...

[Kraken]

If spamming persisted spells is a playstyle you're familiar with, then I'd consider an ur-theurge: wizard5/mindbender1/incantatrix4/ur-priest2/theurge8 - you get tons of spells, and can persist any of them that you want using incantatrix and metamagic effect. The mindbender level doesn't do anything for your familiar, but it allows your master to take the mindsight feat, which will be useful if they're ever conscious again. The key ones I'd go for are consumptive field (Spell Comp., can rocket your CL and grant huge strength bonuses), veil of undeath (Spell Comp., broad spectrum immunities), shapechange, and foresight. If you want to be a melee monster, add bite of the werebear and divine power, and shapechange into anything with lots of natural attacks and/or pounce. Coupled with the strength bonus from consumptive field, your familiar will be packing quite a punch. Everything should also be pretty hard to dispel barring disjunction, thanks to the high CL from consumptive field, and you can add other CL boosters and a ring of enduring arcana if you want. Note that consumptive field can be cast multiple times for increased CL if you want. If your starting CL is 20, and you get it to 30 with for first casting of consumptive field, you can cast consumptive field again at CL 30 this time, allowing you get an even higher bonus of +15, for a total CL of 35.

[Namfuak]

what's the range of embrace/ shun the dark chaos

Touch. It also occurs to me that the phrasing on gaining the Alertness feat from being within 5 feet of your familiar means that you could get an unlimited number of embrace/shuns, since it reads "While a familiar is within arm’s reach, the master gains the Alertness feat," so each time it was embraced off it would reapply itself.

[Glimbur]

It also requires being an elf or half-elf, so I'd have to find a way for a halfling to count as one of those, or vice versa...

Would Ruathar do what you need there? I'm far too lazy to actually open the book and check, but I know the Stoneblessed PrC does something similar for races of stone. I don't think that includes halflings though, so...

[Yael]

"I am the Gandálfr."

[ShurikVch]

According to "Are you a Munchkin? (http://meandhim.tripod.com/munch.htm)" test, you definitely are, "if your familiar is an intelligent, spell casting Sphere of Annihilation" :smallbiggrin:


need Trackless Step for Arcane Hierophant
3 levels in Scout, Holt Warden, or Nightsong Infiltrator

[Flickerdart]

Don't forget to get your master to imbue familiar with spell ability (and if you've finagled cleric casting, imbue with spell ability).

[nedz]

Before he left my master shape changed into a Sarrukh and I became Pun Pun — wait, that's a little too high for Tier 1.

[Rubik]

Could a properly kitted-out psicrystal work? It's possible to keep your StP erudite master on your person as an object (PAO'd as a mimic in ring form and shrunk down, then properly enhanced using Ancestral Relic, Item Familiar, etc), and use a psychoactive skin of proteus to stay mobile.

[Teh_das]

Can we take a heritage feat to count as halfling for the outrider class?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Oh oh. I know why master can't help. He tried to possess an enemy using a magic jar and got trapped by a imprison/ impotent possessor combo and it's up to us to save him!!

[FrancisBean]

Oh oh. I know why master can't help. He tried to possess an enemy using a magic jar and got trapped by a imprison/ impotent possessor combo and it's up to us to save him!!

Er, I wrote it with "generic McGuffin, chartreuse with lavender highlights, ranging to fuchsia at the edges." But if you like your description better, then rock on with your bad self. :smallsmile:

[SinsI]

Arcane caster 20 that is optimized for magic item creation that has spent all of his wealth on crafting himself an item familiar can create something that will easily outclass everything posted above.

[ninjamaster1991]

Arcane caster 20 that is optimized for magic item creation that has spent all of his wealth on crafting himself an item familiar can create something that will easily outclass everything posted above.

Which can (possibly) be outclassed by a Changeling Wizard with Item Famliar. Changeling Wizards can turn their familiars into any other possible familiar.

What's the cost limitation on Item Familiars again?

[FrancisBean]

What's the cost limitation on Item Familiars again?

The only assumption I made was the WBL on the master. A short excerpt here should be fair use as far as copyright goes, so I can safely say that WBL for 20th lvl master is 760,000. Now that I think about that in terms of items, my mind is boggling.

[Flickerdart]

Arcane caster 20 that is optimized for magic item creation that has spent all of his wealth on crafting himself an item familiar can create something that will easily outclass everything posted above.
An item familiar has nothing in common with an actual familiar besides the word in the name, and has no place in this thought exercise.

[Troacctid]

An item familiar has nothing in common with an actual familiar besides the word in the name, and has no place in this thought exercise.

That's not true! They have lots in common! They both gain intelligence. They're both magically linked to a master. They're both usually smaller than their master. They both contain some of their master's skills. They both cause their master to lose xp if they're destroyed. They can both be gained with a feat. They both gain abilities as their master levels up. Need I go on?

[FrancisBean]

OK, when first y'all brought up "item familiars," I assumed it was just a catch phrase meaning, "familiar focused on using items." Now I'm getting the idea that you actually mean "an (intelligent) item which is also a familiar." That's a new one on me?

[Flickerdart]

That's not true! They have lots in common! They both gain intelligence.
So does any creature.


They're both magically linked to a master.
So are special mounts, homunculi, undead minions...


They're both usually smaller than their master.
So is anyone who's subservient to a dragon.


They both contain some of their master's skills.
No, standard familiar don't - they merely use their master's ranks. In fact, the item familiar's relationship with skills is inverse, as they can't actually use the skills in them but instead bestow bonuses on those skills on their master.

This would be like showing up to a game with an intelligent item as your character and arguing that it should be allowed because it's technically a creature.

[Demidos]

OK, when first y'all brought up "item familiars," I assumed it was just a catch phrase meaning, "familiar focused on using items." Now I'm getting the idea that you actually mean "an (intelligent) item which is also a familiar." That's a new one on me?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm

The path to knowledge is paved before you. :smalltongue:

[Troacctid]

So does any creature.


So are special mounts, homunculi, undead minions...


So is anyone who's subservient to a dragon.

See? Lots of things have things in common with one another! You just need a little creativity!

[Flickerdart]

See? Lots of things have things in common with one another! You just need a little creativity!
Okay, my submission to this is the divine familiar of a deity that also happens to be an ubermount. It's got familiar in the name, so it counts! #creativity

[dascarletm]

hashtags in this forum?
:smalleek:
It
:smallmad:
Has
:smallannoyed:
Begun
:smallamused:

[animewatcha]

Open up your magazines. There are 13 paladin base classes. Even a TN Paladin.

Which ones are those, I know dragon mag has one for each alignment ( including the LG one ), but what about the other 4 base classes.

[Inevitability]

Hm... Is there a way to make an item cost more? I have this idea for a Sphere of Annihilation item familiar... It nowhere says you can't make your familiar an artifact.

[Dread_Head]

Which ones are those, I know dragon mag has one for each alignment ( including the LG one ), but what about the other 4 base classes.

I assume the unearthed arcana / srd ones here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny). Don't know about the 4th one though as there is only three there.

[A.A.King]

How about, instead of an Item Familiar an Homonculus Improved Familiar?

If you have Craft Construct and Improved Homonculus you can make a pretty powerful Homonculus with flight and everything.

[Rubik]

Hm... Is there a way to make an item cost more? I have this idea for a Sphere of Annihilation item familiar... It nowhere says you can't make your familiar an artifact.This is similar:

Take Psicrystal Affinity. Be a StP erudite or a psion with access to one and Psychic Chirurgery to learn arcane spells. Metamorphosis to turn your psicrystal into a Medium+ construct. Use a rod of construct control to pull in an umbral blot. Manifest Spectral Hand, focused through your psicrystal, followed by Fusion on your psicrystal and the blackball. Astral Seed on your psicrystal. Kill your psicrystal.

Now when your psicrystal comes back, it'll have all the abilities of the blackball.

[edit] Or you could Animate or Haunt Shift a sphere of annihilation and do the same to it.