Cleric/Monk build?

[Olethros]

So I have a character idea I want to try out, but am not sure if it is worth more than the RP/storytelling aspect, which is to say I don't want to create a character that ends up being a drain on the party.

The charcter idea is a Human that starts of adventuring as a cleric, gains several levels, eventually becoming fed up with the beurocracy and politics of the church, but not the tenants of the faith itself. He then casts off his armour and weapons (perhaps all his worldly possessions) and begins the life of a wandering monk. Not exactly the most original concept I know, but I'm really liking the idea right now.

My question is about how to build an effective Cleric/monk. I am envisioning a secondary melee character, good for flanking opponents, helping to take heat off the main tank. Augmenting the unarmed strike with some inflict spells and buffs. The party will likely have another full cleric for most healing needs, a straight melee type (fighter or barbarian), and a full arcane caster (wizard or scorcerer). The game world is a simple homebrew, very generic and organic grown. Stats have not been rolled yet, so I can't tell you.

So, can this character work from a "dice rolling effectivness" level? How many levels of cleric to take befor switching, sence I can't switch back latter without abandoning monk? To Vow of Poverty or not Vow of poverty? These are my questions.

[Fax Celestis]

I would venture to say leave the monk class out of it. Be a monoclass cleric, and take things to make yourself more monklike. Wear a Monk's Belt for Wis-to-AC; get yourself Gloves of Mighty Fists; take the Superior Unarmed Strike feat from the Tome of Battle.

[Deel]

You could always take some levels in Cleric, switch over to Monk for 2 levels, then go to Sacred Fist to be monk-like. You get to keep going with spell casting, gain some dodge bonus/fast movement, and keep going with unarmed damage progression, not to mention the other skills you get from Sacred Fist(Sacred Flames, Blindsense, Inner Armor.)

It seems like it would work out from a rolling perspective, you get some nice spells to augment your fighting and heal, you get more movement, and unarmed damage of a monk of your monk level + sacred fist level.

I think the most common way of getting into the class is Cleric 4/Monk 2, but you could go Cleric 8/Monk 2 if you think the game will go up to level 20.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Well, you want to get to at least 7th caster level as a cleric for divine power, that'll help you out in melee considerably.

That said, if you want to go into monk earlier, there's the Monastic Training feat from ECS (pick a class. You can multiclass between monk and the chosen class freely), or you could homebrew up an Ascetic Mage-type feat. (I have one already, PM if interested).


You could also see about talking to your DM about my rebuild of the monk class, which you may find interesting.

[Shadow]

I made a Sacred Fist for a game that died here not too long ago.

You can check him out here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1871247&postcount=133)

[AmoDman]

I've never really statted out the possible effectiveness of the build, but the Sacred Fist (Complete Divine) is what everyone always seems to aim for when making one. I imagine it'll probably afford you the best chance of being balanced than anything since it still sporadically offers cleric and monk abilities.

[Shadow]

It gives you almost full progression (you only lose two caster levels) and you then get full BAB to boot.
If you're going for Monk/Cleric combo it's the way to go.

[AmoDman]

It gives you almost full progression (you only lose two caster levels) and you then get full BAB to boot.
If you're going for Monk/Cleric combo it's the way to go.

And the levels in monk I presume it takes to qualify...

[Shadow]

And the levels in monk I presume it takes to qualify...

Well, yeah, but you were going to lose those anyway with your original build.

[ravenkith]

If you're dead-set on a cleric monk, then sacred fist is the only way to fly.

Vow of Poverty needs to be looked into if you're going to cast off the worldyl goods....the sooner, the better...

For added fun?

Cleric of Mystra/spell domain/Initiate of Mystra/ANtimagic Field/divine metamagic: persistent + whoopin your ass while your magic & magic gear don't work and my personal enchantments do?

Priceless.

[PnP Fan]

Concur with Sacred Fist option.
I've had a friend who has tried this build a couple of times before, and he's never really gotten it to work well. But he might not be building in an optimal fashion (I've never seen his character sheet).
From a power build perspective, you'd probably be better off going straight Cleric, and taking feats/equipment to mimic monk abilities, but that doesn't really fit the flavor you describe (leave behind worldly posessions, etc. . )
If you DM allows it, I would take Poverty. For an unarmed character it completely kicks butt, stacked with your monk abilities, you'll do well. Most of our DMs don't allow it because there is so much room for cheese.

[brian c]

I had almost this exact same idea a month or two ago, I ended up doing Paladin/Monk instead though, since I wanted to be a primarily melee character (and I don't like melee clerics)

[argentsaber]

actually, you might consider going with a cleric/sword sage build focusing on unarmed strikes as well if you don't like the sacred fist class. or if you do, consider getting REALLY fed up with the clergy and dipping into ur-priest for 2 levels before going into fist... that will net you level 9 spells!

[Khantalas]

Though Vow of Poverty will make the character mechanically difficult to pull off if you go the "mainly cleric" route, because you will have no holy symbol.

[Karaswanton]

Cleric x/Monk 6-x/Sacred Fist 10 works out great.
You need at least Monk 2 to meet the feat pre-reqs.
Anywho, here are some feats you want:
Practiced Spellcaster
Improved Natural Attack
Superior Unarmed Strike

Also, Druid instead of Cleric works out neat as well, but then you have to be LN.

[lumberofdabeast]

Though Vow of Poverty will make the character mechanically difficult to pull off if you go the "mainly cleric" route, because you will have no holy symbol.

I generally houserule holy symbols as an exception, as long as the character carved it him- or herself out of deadwood.

Hey, an ugly holy symbol is every bit as holy as the High Priest's staff.

[Nero24200]

If he gives up the way of the church, isn't that reason enough for him to lose his divine spells? Otherwise Paladin's of NG gods can still be paladins if their lawful alignment. The same would apply to monks who deviate from their training.
If you wished to do a monk/cleric, theres always the possiblity of playing a cleric who simply favours self-sacrifice, and fights using his fists and such because whenever he gets gold to buy a weapon, he gives it to the poor instead.

Though to the point of pulling off a Cleric/Monk, I would say in regards to his holy symbol (for the VOP cleric/monk) I don't see why you cannot simply tatoo the symbol onto your palm.

[Eighth_Seraph]

Well, that brings up a somewhat important question: Can a cleric serve his god outside of the church? I would rule yes, so long as he follows the god's principles and serves him wholeheartedly and there's a good reason to leave the church.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm fairly certain VoP allows you to keep a simple holy symbol anyway.

[brian c]

I'm fairly certain VoP allows you to keep a simple holy symbol anyway.

Something on the WotC website, I think the Sage's Advice, talked about how limiting VoP is for casters, and specifically mentioned that Holy Symbols are not allowed by RAW. It's a reasonable houserule to permit simple wooden symbols though.