3.5 Basic books Fighter

[Raul Leão]

Hi people,

Im playing with just the 3 basic books (player, monster and master). My DM didnt allow us to use other books.

So im planing on making a fighter for pure battle, maximizing my damage output, do you guys have any tips? The fighter that use 'dash(dont know the name in english)" while mounted and have the last feat of the mount tree have a x5 mutiply in damage? like x3 for dashing with lance and +x3 for dashing mounted... this style is the most powerful? Or do you know anything stronger?

Thanks!

[JDL]

If you're building for a mounted charge based build then pure Fighter is probably a poor choice.

In order to maximize the benefits of a charge build you'll want access to the following things:

Ride skill as a class feature
Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge feat progression

Without any additional books aside from the player's handbook, monster manual and dungeon master's guide I'd suggest you consider Paladin. A Paladin is granted a special mount which it can summon at level 5. This mount is far superior to any of the standard mounts in the player's handbook, although you may at higher wealth purchase trained exotic mounts like griffons.

The downsides for Paladins are numerous, from their strict alignment code to their multiple attribute dependence. However, even with identical stats a Paladin will have numerous advantages over a Fighter when you're excluding the many additional feats found outside of the three books above. With only the feats in the player's handbook to choose from, you've pretty much finished your necessary feats by level 6, even without human or fighter bonus feats. The single advantage a pure fighter would have is the weapon focus/specialization lines for lance damage, bonuses which you cancel out with a Paladin using spells such as Divine Favor or Bless.

Also, by level 6 you would be wise to approach your DM about Paladin mount substitutes. Do your best to convince your DM to allow a Pegasus mount as per page 204 of the dungeon master's guide. The flight speed of a Pegasus allows massive battlefield movement, and paired with Ride-by Attack you can move 120 ft. in a charge, lance your opponent from 10 ft. away, then continue another 120 ft. in the same line. Few melee targets will be able to match you at this level.

[Raul Leão]

Thanks for the advice man, ill sure study this possibility! And about that x5 multiply, it is correct?

[Extra Anchovies]

Thanks for the advice man, ill sure study this possibility! And about that x5 multiply, it is correct?

Mounted charge with a lance deals 3x damage, not 5x.

[Amphetryon]

How opposed are you to having magic at your disposal? A core Druid riding his/her Animal Companion makes a quite powerful mounted combatant, starting at level 1, with essentially the same feat progression.

[Raul Leão]

So, whats the difference of mounted charge or normal charge? just the distance?

[Eldariel]

So, whats the difference of mounted charge or normal charge? just the distance?

Only Mounted Charge gets the damage multipliers (provided you use a Lance). And yes, you naturally use your mount's speed. In essence, mounted charging is the only real way to go about entering a fray when it comes to core. Normal charging is just much, much worse.

[Darrin]

The fighter that use 'dash(dont know the name in english)" while mounted and have the last feat of the mount tree have a x5 mutiply in damage? like x3 for dashing with lance and +x3 for dashing mounted... this style is the most powerful?


Let me answer this one first. The Mounted Combat rules aren't functional as-written. I'm not sure if you're going by the English wording or if you're using a translation, but if you want to try mounted combat, you'll need to talk this over with the DM and agree on some house rules. Let me go over the biggest headaches:

1) The rules often get confused over who is charging. When mounted, the mount is the creature that is charging. The rider gets the benefits of the charge (+2 attack bonus), but since you can't move while sitting in a saddle, the rider can't charge unless he dismounts first.

2) When your mount charges and you have a reach weapon, such as a lance, the mount has to charge to the closest square where it can attack, which may mean you can no longer attack with the lance. If your target is medium-sized, it may be inside the 5-foot "donut" where you can't attack with a reach weapon. You need to house-rule this so your mount can charge to a square where both of you can attack, or allow reach weapons to attack adjacent targets while mounted. Another way to fix this is if your mount is large-sized and thus occupies four squares, then you can pick which of those four squares to attack from (such as one of the rear squares), which should allow you to hit your target at an appropriate distance.

3) Ride-By Attack needs to be completely re-written, since 1) it assumes the rider, not the mount is charging, 2) it violates the charging rules, which says you have to charge to the closest square, putting your target directly in front of your mount's path, and any creature blocking your mount's path means your mount can't charge to begin with, and 3) even if you fix the first two problems, if your mount charges past your opponent, your mount never gets the opportunity to attack, as they may end their charge too far away to reach your enemy. You need to rewrite this feat so that you can charge to a square that lets the rider attack but still keep moving in a straight line, and you have to decide if/where you want to allow the mount to attack as well.

4) Consider ditching the "single melee attack" restriction, as this makes mounted combat not worth it at higher levels where a melee fighter can do more damage with multiple attacks than a mounted knight can do with a lance. You might want to try allowing the rider to delay his actions until his mount finishes moving.

That being said... in Core, charging with a lance plus the Spirited Charge feat is one of the best ways to dish out large amounts of damage. You get triple damage... and I think even quadruple damage with Power Attack if you hold it with two hands. But there are some problems with this:

1) You need room to set up the charge, and the terrain has to be open enough for you to get to your target easily. Not all DMs are going to cooperate and give you a clear target on every encounter.

2) After you charge on the first round, you're likely to be involved in melee, and a lot of those mounted combat feats aren't going to be helping much. You may get lucky and have another target set up for a charge, but the odds are against it.

3) You're a "One Trick Pony". Any encounter that can't be easily solved by a mounted charge is going to put you at a disadvantage. Once you get off your horse, you're no longer a threat.

4) A mount for a medium-sized rider is generally large-sized, and most large-sized mounts do not fit easily down dungeon corridors (or even want to go into a dungeon). Convincing your mount to go into dungeons is going to burn up time and resources, and also put your mount at risk in situations where you can't easily defend it.

If you still want to go down the Mounted Combat route, then I would suggest:

Gnome fighter with a two-handed lance on a medium-sized riding dog. Gnome is better than halfling since they get a Con bonus, and as one of the frontline meatbags one of your primary jobs will be soaking up damage. Two-handed lance + Power Attack + Spirited Charge will still get decent damage even with a Str penalty and smaller weapon size. A riding dog can easily fit down dungeon corridors and is more likely to cope with unusual dungeon features.



So im planing on making a fighter for pure battle, maximizing my damage output, do you guys have any tips?


Human fighter with a greatsword. Take Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, and TWF. This gets you the best of both worlds: two-handed Power Attack damage, extra attacks from TWF, and you still get Power Attack damage on your unarmed strikes. Fighter 20 gives you plenty of feats to satisfy both combat styles (although I'd probably throw some Ranger levels in there and head toward Horizon Walker for some more interesting class abilities).


Or do you know anything stronger?


Well, it depends on what you mean by "stronger", but in Core, the most effective melee character at the lower to mid-level range is probably going to be a Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger mix. Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/Fighter 2 packs a lot of feats into five levels and could be a good lead-in to several PrCs, such as Horizon Walker and Dervish. If you're looking for something that gives you interesting things to do at every possible level range, then Saph's Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415) build is highly recommended. But what I mean by "interesting" is not pure damage output but also capable of being useful against unusual opponents or outside of combat.

[Khedrac]

A "Charge" is when you run at an opponent and attack them
A "Mounted Charge" is when the creature you are riding runs at an opponent and you attack them - i.e. it requires a mount.

This tends to mean that characters who specialize in mounted combat are much less useful when on their own feet. For this reason some people will make their mounted warriors gnomes or halflings (despite the strength penalty) so hat they can ride a riding dog - which being medium can take them most places medium creatures can go.

[Extra Anchovies]

Human fighter with a greatsword. Take Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, and TWF. This gets you the best of both worlds: two-handed Power Attack damage, extra attacks from TWF, and you still get Power Attack damage on your unarmed strikes. Fighter 20 gives you plenty of feats to satisfy both combat styles (although I'd probably throw some Ranger levels in there and head toward Horizon Walker for some more interesting class abilities).

IUS isn't strictly necessary here: pick up spiked armor as an alternative. It only costs GP, not a feat slot.

[Flickerdart]

I really love the alternate Paladin mount rules in the DMG because they let you get a creature based on CR, meaning that you can slap templates like Half-Celestial on stuff for the cheap CR adjustment and not the expensive LA adjustment. Half-Celestial Light Warhorse is CR3, meaning that it can be ridden by a 7th level paladin (IIRC a flying mount is Paladin Level - 4). A cheetah is also a hilarious mount to use for charging, as their hourly burst of speed carries you 300 feet forward!

For a charger build, flat modifiers to your damage are really important, since they multiply (as opposed to bonus damage dice, such as from a Flaming weapon). Flat enhancement bonuses are good (though it's cheaper if you can get a friendly caster to use Greater Magic Weapon). If you do decide to go Fighter instead of Paladin, Weapon Specialization actually does something for you. Power Attack is absolutely fantastic though. You get a lot of attack bonuses here and there (+1 for higher ground just for being on a horse, +2 for charging, +1 for Weapon Focus that you'll probably take because there aren't that many good feats in Core) and with Power Attack, you can convert them all into damage. +8 from just the bonuses I listed...which then gets multiplied a bunch when you charge.

If you wanted to really stretch the rules, you could wield a Large lance. Since a lance can be wielded with one hand while mounted, and a weapon larger than normal increases one step in handedness, you can technically wield the Large lance two-handed when riding. This gives you a small boost in damage at the expense of accuracy, so it's not worth it unless you're dumping your entire BAB into Power Attack and still want more.

However, there is more to battle than damage. Consider yourself in a fight against three ogres, each with 29 HP. You charge one, deal 39 damage, and now it's dead. Or you charge it, deal 139 damage...and it's exactly as dead as when you dealt 100 damage less. Past a certain point damage is no longer the bottleneck for how many ogres per turn you can kill, and if you've poured everything into damage, on the next turn the remaining ogres close in and kill you.

Therefore a mounted charger needs to consider a few non-damage things:
Protect yourself from the inevitable counter-attack after you charge. You're now 100+ feet away from your party and just showed the enemy you're dangerous, so they're likely to focus on you. Good AC and miss chance are both useful; remember that you can use Ride (DC 15 check) to use your mount as cover, and this doesn't cost an action. If you're desperate you can also use Fast Dismount after attacking to get off the horse on the other side of the enemy, preventing them from targeting you unless they walk around the horse and provoke an AoO from it. You can also try and fit extra party members on your mount if it's exceptionally strong - while they won't be able to attack on the charge, they can still get off and protect you from any leftover enemies.
Protect your mount. It's likely to have less HP and AC than you do. Buy it armor and magic items if you can afford them. Remember to use Mounted Combat to deflect attacks. If your DM allows you to get alternate special mounts, a Half-Celestial creature gets NA, DR, and SR, making it very tough. Carry a couple of healing potions in case your mount really needs them; potions are too expensive to rely on regularly but in an emergency, they are literally a life-saver.
Have something to do when you can't charge. Terrain, poor visibility, reach/readied weapons, nets and other methods of restricting you from running, and plain ol' losing initiative can all mean that you never get to charge at all. Also, if you charge and there are still enemies nearby (such as if you failed to kill the target or he had a friend) you are not likely to get another go. Carry a ranged weapon to shoot enemies from afar, wear gauntlets or put armor spikes on your armor to attack in close combat, and get as many means as you can (such as flight) of going around terrain.

[JDL]

Correct. A lance deals double base damage when used from the back of a charging mount. With the Spirited Charge feat, this increases to triple base damage.

Here's a few more tricks to consider incorporating into your build.

Power Attack should be an early feat purchase for you. Trade off the bonus to hit you get for charging and add it to damage. Ditto for any spell effects like Bless or Divine Favor.

When charging you should wield your lance in two hands, even though you technically only need to use one hand. This allows double damage from Power Attack as well as the 1.5x bonus damage from your Strength modifier.

For example, assuming a level 6 Human Paladin with Str 14 on a Pegasus has used Bless and Divine Power, he would have +6 BAB +2 Str +1 masterwork +2 charge +1 luck +1 morale to hit, or +13 total. Your damage is 1d8 lance +3 Str +1 luck x3 with Spirited Charge, for 3d8+6 total. Trade off the charge and magic bonuses and you're adding an extra +12 damage leaving you with a +9 to hit bonus.

An expensive way to make up the lost AC you have from charging is a spiked gauntlet enchanted with the defending property. A +2 defending spiked gauntlet costs 18,000 gp and can be used as a free action to add the enhancement bonus to your AC at the start of your turn. Worn on your off-hand it's a cheesy way to negate the charging AC penalty.

Your mount gets a bonus feat at 6 hit dice. If you got a Pegasus at level 6, have your mount take Wingover. This allows you to rapidly turn around and charge again next round if your DM is a stickler for the flying movement rules.If you really want to min-max your mount try to get your DM to allow you to exchange the Pegasus' Iron Will feat with Hover too. This will grant you the option to create a field of total concealment, a handy ability that means you can zip off and spend a turn or two to heal if you're wounded or allow you to break line of sight between the enemy and your party.

[Gnome Alone]

Charging probably does the most damage as far as a core melee character goes, but I personally really like tripping. With the feats Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes, while wielding a reach weapon, you can stop the movement of your enemies while hurting them also. A Human Fighter can do this at Level 1. (You could use another feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, but personally I think a guisarme does almost all the same stuff and is way cooler besides.)

It's nice to be able to do something besides pure damage; in this case, battlefield control. Along those lines, the core build "Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-(Core-Melee-Build))" by GITP's own Saph, has a decent amount of versatility.

If you can use the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) in addition to the PHB/DMG/MM, the feat Stand-Still works better than Improved Trip on larger opponents so it would help you stay relevant longer at higher levels. It is similiar to Improved Trip, only you simply stop their movement instead of tripping & hitting them.

I don't remember where I read it on here, but someone said once that if you're building a core Fighter, basically the best options are tripping, archery and mounted combat, and you have enough feats to pick two of those and be really good at them.

Hope that helps. I figured you didn't say you were dead-set on mounted combat, so it'd be nice to hear about some other good options.

EDIT: by and large enninjatized by Darrin

[Darrin]

IUS isn't strictly necessary here: pick up spiked armor as an alternative. It only costs GP, not a feat slot.

True, but armor spikes are light weapons and thus don't work with Power Attack. At least with IUS, you get x1.0 Power Attack damage. Yes, it costs a feat slot, but fighters get plenty, and in a Core campaign, you run out of decent fighter feats pretty quickly.

[Raul Leão]

So, TWF is two weapon fight, right? If i have this feat tree ill do 4 atacks with the greatsword (assuming 20 BAB) plus 3 unarmed, both with -4 penalty? i should get 19 dex then?

[JDL]

Two Weapon Fighting is fighting with two different weapons. For example, a sword in one hand and a dagger in the off hand. This is different to Two Handed Weapons, which is one weapon, like a greataxe, that's held in both hands. You don't get extra attacks with a greatsword with Two Weapon Fighting because it's a Two Handed Weapon.

[Darrin]

So, TWF is two weapon fight, right? If i have this feat tree ill do 4 atacks with the greatsword (assuming 20 BAB) plus 3 unarmed, both with -4 penalty? i should get 19 dex then?

Four attacks with the greatsword and three offhand unarmed strikes. Since the unarmed strikes are light weapons, then your TWF penalties are -2 primary and -2 offhand. Normally, light weapons can't get any extra damage from Power Attack, but unarmed strikes and natural weapons are a specific exception to that rule.

There are some arguments that Greater TWF isn't worth picking up, since a third offhand attack at essentially a -12 penalty isn't likely to hit. So Dex 17 might be enough, but then there's the old saying, "In for a penny, in for a pound".

I wrote the TWF OffHandbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279079) if you want more advice on that particular combat style. In the builds section, there's a sample Core Fighter 20 TWF build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15034740&postcount=11) with feat suggestions.

[Raul Leão]

well man, i really prefer two handed weapon fight, its cheaper and the power atack is aewsome.

I didnt know that horses are large monsters (so its not viable in dungeons), and as i know my DM (he is my brother) will put the biggest fights of the campain inside dungeos. Even if i can ride inside (being a dwarf), i was planing on getting quick draw to: Charge at an opponent and if i get impossible to atack with the lance, quick draw the axe and hit... What do you think? the reduced dmg on size doenst matter since the BAB and flat stuff makes more difference and are inaltered....

I really loved the Paladin steroids and heal (i´ve never read anything on them before today haha), but the 4 extra dmg with the 12 fighter feat is nice too, but i need at least level 12 in paladin to get lv 4 spells too, so what to get? 12fighter/8 paladin ou 12 paladin/8 fighter?

Paladin can +5 any weapon, and fighter can +4 just 1 weapon, so i think 12 paladin>12 fighter, right?

[Flickerdart]

I really loved the Paladin steroids and heal (i´ve never read anything on them before today haha), but the 4 extra dmg with the 12 fighter feat is nice too, but i need at least level 12 in paladin to get lv 4 spells too, so what to get? 12fighter/8 paladin ou 12 paladin/8 fighter?
Paladins actually get 4th level spells at level 14. I would recommend Paladin 14/Fighter 6. There really aren't enough useful fighter feats in core to need a lot of fighter levels, and both spells and mount progression are really useful to have. Take Paladin 7 first (for the Half-Celestial Light Warhorse) and then alternate Fighter and Paladin levels to keep your mount relevant while you pick up feats.

[Raul Leão]

Ill do some thing like this then, and about the quick draw, its a nice thing to do or a wasted feat?

[Darrin]

Ill do some thing like this then, and about the quick draw, its a nice thing to do or a wasted feat?

In Core, it's a nice feat to have, since it's one of the few things that melee meatbags can get to improve their "action economy", and it opens up some different battlefield control options: you can now quickdraw alchemical items, such as acid flasks, alchemical fire, tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, sunrods, etc. Also, javelins, nets, harpoons, lassos, orc shotputs, and whatnot. As a meatbag, it's your job to make sure every single action you get does something useful for the rest of the party, whether it be dishing out damage, drawing aggro/attention, denying squares to the enemy, or restricting your opponent's actions.

Outside of Core, there's an augment crystal in the Magic Item Compendium (Least Crystal of Return) that does the same thing as a feat for only 300 GP.

[Eldariel]

Ill do some thing like this then, and about the quick draw, its a nice thing to do or a wasted feat?

It's not amazing. You can normally already draw a weapon while walking. Further, remember that later in the game you'll want magic weapons. It's not good use of your money to invest in a large number of magic weapons so you'll by nature focus on your Excalibur or Rhongomiant or Sharur or 如意金箍棒 or whatever. It certainly has its uses but unless you put a lot of effort into generalizing (that is, avoid feats like Weapon Specialization, only invest minimally in your weapons and rely on other gear instead, have all your weapons Greater Magic Weapon'd every day, etc.), it simply isn't very practical to switch weapon a lot so Quick Draw loses a lot of its appeal. Further, items like Glove of Storing enable something like that as a free action for the item stored in your Glove so you can circumvent the need for the feat that way.

If you use Fighter-levels, you'll probably have enough feats that you don't really care about making them count but otherwise I would focus your feats on the more important and unique abilities and stats. Also, my personal pick would be Paladin 16/Fighter 4; still gets you Weapon Specialization and 3 feats while getting few more daily spells. Paladins don't get that many normally so it's a bit of a pain to multiclass at all; I'd honestly also consider just going Paladin 20 to eventually maximize your number of daily spells (you get some nice ones as a Pally). This means you'll have to be a bit more picky about which feats you want but it's eminently doable and the payoffs in the very end are pretty nice (3 spells on each level without counting your bonus spells, of which you should have significant amounts especially with Pearls of Power being quite cheap for those spell levels at that point).

[Flickerdart]

Speaking of Pearls of Power, once you're a high level paladin and can cast spells, one of the best items you can buy is a Prayer Bead of Karma. Since you can cast your own Greater Magic Weapon, the Bead will improve the bonus it grants and also make it last longer. Because your caster level is only 1/2 of your paladin level, these are really useful boosts.

[Raul Leão]

My Brother (DM) think magic items are too much OP, probably he will put some in high levels, so im not counting on magic items and stuff, he didnt let me put 100gp in a long bow to get +1....

Ill have to make a dwarf then, the -2 cha will mess my spells or not? i got

18
16
16
15
15
14


to put where i want...
18 str
16 con (18)
16 cha (14)
15 dex
15 int
14 sab

its nice?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Paladin spells are based off of wisdom. The -2 Cha will mess with your divine grace, but it minimums out at plus +1 if I recall correctly.

Big alert: Magic items are the heart and soul of DnD, especially for non casters. Blocking you off from magic items could easily result in "appropriately CR'd" encounters wiping the floor with you, since those CRs are assuming that you have relevant wealth by level. Also the DMG magic ite

Edit: Hot damn those are some nice stats. You either have a very high point buy or a dice god. ms tend to overpriced, so I am not sure why he thinks those are overpowered. I would put the 14 in Dex and the 15 in Wisdom, unless you are dead set on wearing lighter armor. You could put the one of the +1s from every four levels into it and get more bonus spells.

[Darrin]

Ill have to make a dwarf then, the -2 cha will mess my spells or not?


Use the Gold Dwarf on page 171 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. This is a subrace of dwarves that shifts the Cha penalty to Dex, so it's ability mods are +2 Constitution and -2 Dexterity.

As far as your stats, as a Gold Dwarf I'd try:

18 Str
18 Con (16 + 2)
14 Dex (16 - 2)
14 Int
15 Wis
15 Cha

(I'm not sure what "sab" is.)

[Flickerdart]

My Brother (DM) think magic items are too much OP, probably he will put some in high levels, so im not counting on magic items and stuff, he didnt let me put 100gp in a long bow to get +1....
Yeah, about that...tell him to read Page 135 of the DMG. The game is balanced on the assumption that characters have access to a certain level of wealth.

[Eldariel]

Use the Gold Dwarf on page 171 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. This is a subrace of dwarves that shifts the Cha penalty to Dex, so it's ability mods are +2 Constitution and -2 Dexterity.

As far as your stats, as a Gold Dwarf I'd try:

18 Str
18 Con (16 + 2)
14 Dex (16 - 2)
14 Int
15 Wis
15 Cha

(I'm not sure what "sab" is.)

We're talking about a Paladin, I'd definitely look at 16 Charisma over 16 Con or 16 Dex in this. In fact, I'd do 18 Str, 16 Cha, 16 Dex, 15 Con, 14 Int, 15 Wis for:

18 Str
14 Dex (-2)
17 Con (+2)
14 Int
15 Wis
16 Cha

This does give you extremely nice saves in particular with Divine Grace, but also some Smiting and Lay on Hands goodness and overall, a decent set of bonuses for everything. Level-up scores should probably go to Strength though raising Wisdom or Con might also be worth considering; two-handed weapons have the nice effect of increasing the value of every point of strength which sets you up great overall. This is indeed an array that enables you to play any kind of a Paladin. You can even afford the Combat Expertise-feat and Improved Trip if you want to make more use out of your strength.

Also, as a spellcaster you have the option of crafting magic items yourself if they're hard to come by otherwise. You might consider Craft Wondrous Items or Craft Magic Arms & Armor-feats, though mind your lower-than-normal caster level. Either way, what comes to having magic items, spells allow you to circumvent the problems come to your weapons and armor (Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment respectively; they can be used to buff for the whole day) but utility will be left to spellcasters entirely unless you have some magic items later on.

[Raul Leão]

But dwarves have -2 on cha, not dex....

[Eldariel]

But dwarves have -2 on cha, not dex....

The Shield Dwarves presented in Player's Handbook have -2 Cha. Gold Dwarves, a different dwarven subspecies described in Dungeon Master's Guide page 171 (as Darrin already said), have -2 Dex instead of the Charisma-penalty.

[Raul Leão]

Thanks man haha

U said the magic item creation... i saw in the DM book that some itens have specific thing to be created as spellcaster level and a certain school, but there are things like "abajuration[strong]", how can i know the "strenght" of the school?

I think ill get magic armor and weapon creation....

[ZamielVanWeber]

When a wizard uses detect magic, it will reveal the school of the item and strength of the aura. That is what that entry refers to. If you don't use Detect Magic/Arcane Sight then those entries mean nothing to you.

The caster level refers to the minimum a caster needs to be able to craft that item. If you are not crafting them that means very little to you (except for determining caster level for effects such a Dispel Magic).

[Raul Leão]

Well, for crafting and using a magic item all i need is money, the feat and the spellcaster level?

[Darrin]

The caster level refers to the minimum a caster needs to be able to craft that item. If you are not crafting them that means very little to you (except for determining caster level for effects such a Dispel Magic).

No. The caster level is used to determine certain features such as the duration for spell effects, and how the item responds to certain things, such as dispel magic checks. It is not a prerequisite to craft the item. The only prerequisites for crafting magic items are having the correct crafting feat and access to the spells listed. And even for the spells, you can fudge a bit by asking another spellcaster to provide them.

[Gnome Alone]

Hmm, now I have a decently strong urge to play a paladin who makes his own Pearls of Power.

[ZamielVanWeber]

No. The caster level is used to determine certain features such as the duration for spell effects, and how the item responds to certain things, such as dispel magic checks. It is not a prerequisite to craft the item. The only prerequisites for crafting magic items are having the correct crafting feat and access to the spells listed. And even for the spells, you can fudge a bit by asking another spellcaster to provide them.

He's right. I know that, so I am not sure why I answered otherwise.

[Flickerdart]

how can i know the "strenght" of the school?
That part of the entry refers to what the item looks like to a Detect Magic spell, or any other spell that detects the presence and strength of magic. The crafter doesn't need to care about it even a little bit.

[Solaris]

Two Weapon Fighting is fighting with two different weapons. For example, a sword in one hand and a dagger in the off hand. This is different to Two Handed Weapons, which is one weapon, like a greataxe, that's held in both hands. You don't get extra attacks with a greatsword with Two Weapon Fighting because it's a Two Handed Weapon.

But you do get the extra attacks if they're with an unarmed strike or armor spikes. Fighting with a two-handed weapon and either the unarmed strike or armor spikes is one of the better ways to dual-wield, as it gives you a lot of the advantages of two-handed fighting and dual-wielding.

[Susano-wo]

if you really want to do mounted combat, but are worried about your mount size you could try a small race, with a medium sized mount. less damage, but you can maneuver just fine in dungeons :smallbiggrin:

[Raul Leão]

ill make a dwarf ^^

Do you guys think its better to get craft wondorous item or craft magic and armor?

[Eldariel]

ill make a dwarf ^^

Do you guys think its better to get craft wondorous item or craft magic and armor?

Craft Wondrous Items. More generally applicable, more unique. Weapons and armor are useful but you generally only have one weapon and one-two pieces of armor, and all combined they can be approximated with couple of spells, while wondrous items do...well, wondrous things :smallwink:

[JDL]

Magic item crafting feats on a Paladin are a poor choice. Paladins have low caster level for making arms and armor or weapons (caster level = 1/2 Paladin level), and few of the spell prerequisites for wondrous items. There's a few niche items you could create but they're hardly worth a feat for getting them half price.

[Raul Leão]

So, like the pearl of power that requiser CL 17, a paladin will never be able to use one?

Ill get paladin level 16, so its CL 8, there aren´t much good things to create with it... waste a feat on that is kinda inviable.... thanks for the advice!

[Khedrac]

So, like the pearl of power that requiser CL 17, a paladin will never be able to use one?

Ill get paladin level 16, so its CL 8, there aren´t much good things to create with it... waste a feat on that is kinda inviable.... thanks for the advice!

A paladin can use one (the caster level is a creation requirement not a use requirement) but not create one.

Note: You say you will play a dwarf - which is fine, I like dwarfs, but are you aware that dwarfs though short are not "small" in the D&D definition - they are a "medium" race - and so require large mounts unlike gnomes and halflings?

[Eldariel]

So, like the pearl of power that requiser CL 17, a paladin will never be able to use one?

Ill get paladin level 16, so its CL 8, there aren´t much good things to create with it... waste a feat on that is kinda inviable.... thanks for the advice!


A paladin can use one (the caster level is a creation requirement not a use requirement) but not create one.?

Again, Darrin already covered this:

No. The caster level is used to determine certain features such as the duration for spell effects, and how the item responds to certain things, such as dispel magic checks. It is not a prerequisite to craft the item. The only prerequisites for crafting magic items are having the correct crafting feat and access to the spells listed. And even for the spells, you can fudge a bit by asking another spellcaster to provide them.

[ericgrau]

If your DM is ok with it then you can leadership up a better mount than a paladin's mount for the cost of a feat. And many fly. Then I'd do something like Barbarian 1 / fighter X / sorc 1 / dragon disciple Y for the most damage. The feats also help you get your mounted charging feats much sooner. Doing it on another class like a paladin takes forever and you want to actually be able to play your concept before high levels. The strength helps your damage too both from damage per hit and attack bonus. And it lasts longer than smiting.

Even if leadership isn't allowed, you may want to buy a mount or keep replacing a cheap disposable mount that doesn't penalize you when it dies. The paladin's mount is better than a regular horse but it isn't that special and it's often a disappointment to build around it. Many of the figurines of wondrous power could be good to pokeball a portable backup mount too. Plus when they are killed they revert to statue form and can be used again after X days.

[Solaris]

A paladin can use one (the caster level is a creation requirement not a use requirement) but not create one.

Note: You say you will play a dwarf - which is fine, I like dwarfs, but are you aware that dwarfs though short are not "small" in the D&D definition - they are a "medium" race - and so require large mounts unlike gnomes and halflings?

Yeah, but ponies are Medium-sized and dwarves riding ponies rather than horses is something of a staple of the genre. The DM might well go for it.

[Raul Leão]

About the dragon disciple man....

The aditional magic that he gains, i can add 1 extra magic for my level right? As ill just get 1 level of sorcerer, i can add 1 extra spell of level 0 or another of level 1?

Its better to get the dragon disciple with fewer spells than getting paladin with plenty of steroids and heals?

And yes, my DM allowed me to create a dwarf that rides medium mounts.....

[ericgrau]

You don't get dragon disciple for the spells. Core paladin spells aren't that great either. You get dragon disciple because his stats are better: he hits harder, and he can withstand more. But the ability to use wands and staffs is quite nice for both. And while a wand of cure light wounds is nice, wizard spells are quite a bit better.

[Raul Leão]

But a level 10 dragon disciple is a 10 level caster?

A paladin can get easy +13 damage (+4 str = 2 damage +1 from bless, +5 from divine flavor and +5 from Holy sword) and x3 from mounted charge i get extra 39 damage

a dragon disciple receives only 8 str that gives 4 damage x3 mounted charge = 12 damage.... 1/3 of a paladin...

[Flickerdart]

But a level 10 dragon disciple is a 10 level caster?

A paladin can get easy +13 damage (+4 str = 2 damage +1 from bless, +5 from divine flavor and +5 from Holy sword) and x3 from mounted charge i get extra 39 damage

a dragon disciple receives only 8 str that gives 4 damage x3 mounted charge = 12 damage.... 1/3 of a paladin...
The thing about Bless, Holy Sword, and Divine Favor (which caps out at +3 by the way) is that you need to spend an action putting up each one of them. Combat typically lasts 3-5 rounds, and if you're spending 3 of those rounds buffing, you've been left in the dust. Also, you don't have enough spell slots to make this a sustainable tactic.

Meanwhile, +8 Strength is just there forever. It's actually +6 damage, since you get +1.5 STR when wielding a weapon two-handed. It also lets you do things like climb and swim better, carry heavier stuff, and wrestle more bears.

[Raul Leão]

I understand the point now!

and about the 1 level in barbarian... just for the 1rage/day?

[ericgrau]

Yessir. If your DM likes to run 3-4 encounters a day on most days it's not as worth it. But for 1-2 on most days it's great.

The +8 str also comes with a good always-on attack bonus which can be worth more than damage. You do lose 2 BAB but +8 str gives you +4 to hit. And a good HD. And saves. And AC. And you can buy a wizard staff with high level spells on it if you want. Or buy a few scrolls to super buff with more buffs than the pally gets for those rare times when you actually have 3 rounds to buff before a big fight. For those times when you have exactly 1 buff round... you true strike since it has no spell failure chance in armor then power attack and charge for massive damage without missing. Even that you might scroll since you don't always get a buff round.

[Raul Leão]

We are a total of 6 players (yes a lot, sometimes a fight gets boring, but we all are old friends) so the encounters are with about 5 monsters and lasts about 3-4 rounds for a nice fight, just save the rage for the boss or last fight of the day and ill be okay haha

To get dragon disciple i need 8 poits of know arcana, so i need first level 5 then get the 6th level in DD right?

2 levels in fighter
1 level in barbarian
1 level in sorcerer
1 level left....

what to choose?

[ericgrau]

Fighter 4 for mounted combat feat or weapon spec (now or later on) and enter 1 level later. Or dip ranger for skills: not very useful for charging damage but it broadens your horizons.

[Flickerdart]

Cleric! Cleric wands/scrolls are awesome, and the choice of two domains can give you some useful stuff. Destruction's domain power is pretty decent (+4 to-hit once a day can be converted into beefy damage with Power Attack).
Knowledge Domain gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills.
Luck lets you reroll any one roll per day (awesome for those critical attack rolls or saving throws).
Travel gives you a round of Freedom of Movement to duck out of grapples, Grease, Entangle, and so forth.
Plus 1st level Cleric spells are great to have around just in case.

So 1 level in Cleric of a god with Luck and Travel domains leaves you with a pretty solid bunch of abilities.

You do lose 1 BAB and an average of 1 HP compared to a fighter level, plus your DM might look at you funny for taking 4 different base classes.

[Ferronach]

We are a total of 6 players (yes a lot, sometimes a fight gets boring, but we all are old friends) so the encounters are with about 5 monsters and lasts about 3-4 rounds for a nice fight, just save the rage for the boss or last fight of the day and ill be okay haha

To get dragon disciple i need 8 poits of know arcana, so i need first level 5 then get the 6th level in DD right?

2 levels in fighter
1 level in barbarian
1 level in sorcerer
1 level left....

what to choose?

Quick word of caution. Check with your brother if he is enforcing multiclass penalties.
On this forum it is generally accepted that they are not so using a bunch of classes is OK.
Unfortunately some DMs are cruel and do enforce them which makes your life more difficult.

That being said.
On with answering your question :)

Personally I would take a second barbarian (uncanny dodge can save your life!) or odly enough a level of rogue.
Why rogue you ask? Simple. You have really well balanced stats and they are fairly high.
This means that rogue will grant you alot of skills and skill points for utility.
Rogue will give you sneak attack - yes it is situational but still useful.
Rogues have trap finding and the ability to disable traps and open locks. If your party already has a rogue you can act as a backup.
The trapsense will help out if you are riding as you will likely range ahead of the party and end up triggering traps before the rogue is close enough to warn you.
Rogues can also use magical devices. Having levels in a casting class is nice. Adding a reasonable UMD to their level when trying to use a wand/scroll is really useful :)

[Raul Leão]

Im dwarf, so level 4 in fighter will not mess the exp for level 1 barbarial and sorcerer or cleric or rogue... and DD is a prestige class, so exp penalties does not apply. Im ok then...

[Ferronach]

Im dwarf, so level 4 in fighter will not mess the exp for level 1 barbarial and sorcerer or cleric or rogue... and DD is a prestige class, so exp penalties does not apply. Im ok then...

Multiclass penalties apply once you try to take a second class outside of your preferred (depends on race). So if you go fighter then barbarian you are ok but if you then take another class you would incurr a penalty (even if it is a preferred class). Unless of course your DM allows you to negate the panalty as most do.

[Raul Leão]

even if its less than 2 levels of difference?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Only if it is greater than two levels. A dwarf with Fighter 4/Sorcerer 1/Barbarian 1 (for example) would not incur multiclassing penalties.

[Raul Leão]

Like the spell burning hands for example

A i can only deal d4 DMG being level 1 sorcerer? or my DD level will be the Caster level?

And the multyclass thing, im not takin more than 2 levels in each class except fighter, so its ok ^^

[Flickerdart]

Like the spell burning hands for example

A i can only deal d4 DMG being level 1 sorcerer? or my DD level will be the Caster level?

And the multyclass thing, im not takin more than 2 levels in each class except fighter, so its ok ^^
Your CL is equal to your Sorcerer level. So don't bother with spells that care about that; learn spells like True Strike or Enlarge Person that either don't care about CL at all or have a duration of 1 minute or more even at CL1.

[Ferronach]

even if its less than 2 levels of difference?

Well no. If the levels are all within 1 class level of eachother then you are ok. Provided you stick with prestiege classes after that. Unfortunately if your class levels are not within 1 level of your highest class level you suffer a 20% penalty to XP for each class that is not within one level of his or her highest-level class. You may ignore one favoured class for the purpose of calculating class level differences and XP penalties.

So if you go with your 2, 1, 1, 1, X split you will be fine as long as X is a presteige class (or more than one prestige class). You could even go 6, 1, 1, 1, 1, X or 3, 2, 1, 1, X with X being prestige as long as the class with 6 or 3 levels is a favored class.

Unfortunately if you decide to go back to one of your non-favoured classes after your presteige, you will run into trouble. This is why most DMs do away with the penalties associated with multiclassing.
Wizards do make it clear that you can have as many classes as you want without penalty provided they are all within 1 class level of your highest class level. Essentially you could be level 1 in 20 classes or level 2 in 10 or somewhere inbetween if you wanted without issue. Heck you could take 10 levels of a favoured class and then 1 level of 10 classes or 2 levels of 5 classes etc... Once again, the penalty is pretty silly which is why most DMs do not use it.

Wizards do a better job of explaining it on page 60 of the english Players Handbook at the end of chapter 3 - Classes (not too sure about translations).

[Raul Leão]

If i get the DD, fighter and stuff, ill be usefull at late game? because i see many monsters like tarrasque, gold dragon have imunity to lethal atacks or high AC, so how can i kill them without magic?
How can a non magical character handle theese big bosses?

[Eldariel]

If i get the DD, fighter and stuff, ill be usefull at late game? because i see many monsters like tarrasque, gold dragon have imunity to lethal atacks or high AC, so how can i kill them without magic?
How can a non magical character handle theese big bosses?

Not alone. Casters inevitably become stronger than noncasters. To kill the Tarrasque, you need an item or a character capable of casting "Wish". Gold Dragon, well, you can actually get high enough To Hit to hit it easily enough (level 20 Human Barbarian can have 40 Strength for +15, +20 BAB and +5 weapon for +40 before accounting for minor bonuses). Even if it's under Mage Armor and Shield, its AC of 50 is still within a roll of 10. Since you also have Haste from item (Boots of Speed) or the spell, you have two attacks at highest attack bonus and +1. Other items further enhance your to hit as needed. You can hit things and do damage. Their problem is, that's all warriors do higher up (and maybe Trip; Tripping is pretty good - touch attack for +4 to hit, -4 to enemy hit, inability to move, etc.).

[Raul Leão]

how can a barbarian get 40 str?

[Eldariel]

how can a barbarian get 40 str?

18 level 1, 5 level-ups, +5 inherent bonus from a tome/5 wishes, +6 enhancement bonus item, +8 Mighty Rage. That adds up to 32. An Orc (Monster Manual) could hit 44 with the same setup. If he were permanently Enlarged, that'd be 46. As long as you focus on pumping just one stat, it gets pretty high eventually. Even with no active magic items you can hit 34 (that leaves out the +6 enhancement bonus item; the Tome is permanent, inherent and consumed on use so it's not active).

[ericgrau]

Cleric! Cleric wands/scrolls are awesome, and the choice of two domains can give you some useful stuff. Destruction's domain power is pretty decent (+4 to-hit once a day can be converted into beefy damage with Power Attack).
Knowledge Domain gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills.
Luck lets you reroll any one roll per day (awesome for those critical attack rolls or saving throws).
Travel gives you a round of Freedom of Movement to duck out of grapples, Grease, Entangle, and so forth.
Plus 1st level Cleric spells are great to have around just in case.

So 1 level in Cleric of a god with Luck and Travel domains leaves you with a pretty solid bunch of abilities.

You do lose 1 BAB and an average of 1 HP compared to a fighter level, plus your DM might look at you funny for taking 4 different base classes.
Travel domain only works against magical entrapment making it significantly less useful since most entrapping monsters are mundane grapplers. Luck and destruction would make a good combo. Rerolling anything below 10 is effectively a +2: 15 * 0.5 + 10.5 * 0.5 = 12.75. 10.5 => 12.75 = +2.25. So together you get about a +6. That assumes you find a deity with both domains though.


If i get the DD, fighter and stuff, ill be usefull at late game? because i see many monsters like tarrasque, gold dragon have imunity to lethal atacks or high AC, so how can i kill them without magic?
How can a non magical character handle theese big bosses?

As said don't neglect your attack bonus and there will be ways to keep up with high level foes. You just need to put in the work and never underestimate a stacking +1. They add up. Lack of magic is a bigger concern. For that you can use staffs, other magic items and you have allies. Common challenges to overcome include DR, invisibility and flight. There's a holy adamantine weapon, silversheen and a cold iron backup weapon such as cold iron armor spikes. Then also get see invisibility scrolls/wands, invisibility purge scrolls, and many different flying mounts besides an emergency scroll of fly. Scrolls have arcane spell failure in armor though. Wands and staffs don't. But you can cast see invisibility at a dungeon entrance with your armor off. A DC 20 listen check is also good for finding most invisible foes the moment they use most standard actions. Casting or attacking is noisy, so DC 0 + 20 = DC 20 to find their square. You still get a 50% miss chance but at least you pick the right square. And that can be your queue to get closer for an invisibility purge or chuck a bag of flour or etc.

[Raul Leão]

I can use any staff being Sorcerer level 1?

The fire staff for example, have Prerequisites: Craft Staff, Burning Hsnds, Fireball, Wall of fire...

Do i have to have all of this to use? or anyone can use theese itens?

[ericgrau]

Those are pre-requisites to make it. You may use it and all the spells on it with 1 level of sorcerer. Yes you may use any staff with sorcerer spells on it, even 9th level sorcerer spells. You use the caster level of the staff and for spell save DCs you use either the minimum charisma required to cast the spells on the staff (10 + spell level) or your charisma, whichever is higher.

[danzibr]

(I'm not sure what "sab" is.)
I haven't seen this answered yet. I'm quite curious.

[Eldariel]

I haven't seen this answered yet. I'm quite curious.

By elimination it's Wisdom (others being the other 5 stats), most likely in another language. Again, judging by Raul's name (assuming Brazilian), I'd guess it's from his Player's Handbook, which is most likely in Portuguese. Indeed, dictionary tells me that "sabedoria" is "wisdom" in Portuguese, so there you go.

[Eldariel]

Oh, by the way, one option not mentioned yet but that might interest you if you want an endgame warrior: Clerics are actually amazing warriors on their own right. They start off a bit behind but with your stats you should be okay and they have a number of Personal buffs that allow them to keep up, especially if you have a surprise round or whatever to buff (but even without, especially once you can afford Metamagic Rod of Quicken). On level 9 they can cast "Quickened Divine Favor" for +3 to hit and +3 to damage for instance, which makes up for all the BAB they're missing and gives them plain +3 damage. Then they have access to Greater Magic Weapon (at full caster level), Magic Vestment (at full caster level), Divine Power (if you can Quicken it in or cast in the start of the fight, it's a huge bonus), Righteous Might and so on.

If Paladin and big damage interest you, while still wanting to stay on the top of the class until level 20, Cleric might be where you want to look. Your stats make for an amazing Cleric too, and as a party force multiplier, you make everybody way stronger just by being around as a Cleric (casting stuff like Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment for everybody's weapons, crafting items, party buffs like Magic Circle Against Evil or Prayer, etc.). Then you have your Domains to customize your character (and spell list) and of course, full 9 levels of spells (including some absolute standouts like Miracle and Holy Word).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldariel
Indeed, dictionary tells me that "sabedoria" is "wisdom" in Portuguese, so there you go.

Score for the linguist. This is indeed the word used for Wisdom in Brazilian Portuguese, at least in the translations I have.

[Raul Leão]

Sorry guys hahaha

Sab is Wisdom, yes
STR=FOR força
CON=CON constituição
CHA=CAR carisma
INT=INT inteligencia
DEX=DES destreza


Well, i´ll keep up with the Dragon Disciple, as said before, i have to spend 2-3 rounds to buff myself, so i loose 2-3 attacks, there are no buffs worth than 2 mounted charges hahaha

[Eldariel]

Well, i´ll keep up with the Dragon Disciple, as said before, i have to spend 2-3 rounds to buff myself, so i loose 2-3 attacks, there are no buffs worth than 2 mounted charges hahaha

Well, it isn't that big of a problem for a Cleric thanks to them getting higher level spell slots fairly rapidly. Early on you don't really buff that much unless you're forewarned (before kicking the door open or whatever) but once you hit level 9-10 you can start using Quicken Spell, which makes buffing a non-issue (albeit at the cost of most of your high level slots; it's worth it though).

Round 1, you can cast Quickened Divine Favor and do a mounted charge at 6 BAB + Strength + 3 Luck & XdX+Strength+ 3 Luck. You also can have Greater Magic Weapon on your weapon lasting 8 hours giving it +2 to hit and +2 to damage. In other words, compared to a Fighter of equal level you have about equal to hit (assuming he's using the weapon specialization line) and a bit more damage.


Incidentally, a high level Paladin can use Glove of Storing (10k Wondrous Item) + Rod of Quicken Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#metamagicQuicken) (70k Rod) to Quicken his Holy Sword or whatever as desired. Rod of Lesser Quicken Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#metamagicQuicken) works for all of his other spells. But a Cleric has the spell slots to do that stuff even without items.

A Paladin with this setup (Glove of Storing, Rod of Quicken Spell, two-handed weapon) your first round would look like this:
Free Action: Hold weapon in one hand.
Free Action: Draw Rod from your Glove of Storing.
Swift Action: Cast Quickened Holy Sword/Divine Favor/whichever buff you want.
Free Action: Place Rod back in your Glove of Storing.
Free Action: Grab weapon with two hands.
Standard/Full-Round Action: Charge! (Standard on surprise rounds, full-round otherwise)

Cleric skips all the nonsense and just Quickens his first buff and charges (again, starting from level 9). Then he can Quicken a second buff second round if he has one prepared. Of course, he shines more the later you get.

[Raul Leão]

Its a nice thing to do too man! thanks!!

[danzibr]

By elimination it's Wisdom (others being the other 5 stats), most likely in another language. Again, judging by Raul's name (assuming Brazilian), I'd guess it's from his Player's Handbook, which is most likely in Portuguese. Indeed, dictionary tells me that "sabedoria" is "wisdom" in Portuguese, so there you go.
+ a brazillion internets.

[Extra Anchovies]

+ a brazillion internets.

booooooooo

[Raul Leão]

As i was seeing, to become a Dragon Disciple i have to speak draconic, but my character doenst have it...

Any good way to learn? Or my character can just wake up and say: "Well, lets learn to speak draconic, lets go to the library and read some teach book, ect...." Its not strange to do this, since he is facinated with dragons... but it sounds like im doing this obviously to get dragon disciple?

Its a better way to talk to my DM to make a NPC suddenly appear and say things like: Hey, i can see in your eyes (probably with some mind read spell) that u love dragons... But to dominate them, you have to speak like one, act like one.... BE LIKE ONE!

Of course my character will fall in love with this guy and will obbey every advice he gives, so he can teach me how to speak draconic, and be like my mentor as Dragon disciple....

And i have much time to learn, because um still level 3, and i can get DD just in level 6...

[Eldariel]

As i was seeing, to become a Dragon Disciple i have to speak draconic, but my character doenst have it...

Any good way to learn? Or my character can just wake up and say: "Well, lets learn to speak draconic, lets go to the library and read some teach book, ect...." Its not strange to do this, since he is facinated with dragons... but it sounds like im doing this obviously to get dragon disciple?

Its a better way to talk to my DM to make a NPC suddenly appear and say things like: Hey, i can see in your eyes (probably with some mind read spell) that u love dragons... But to dominate them, you have to speak like one, act like one.... BE LIKE ONE!

Of course my character will fall in love with this guy and will obbey every advice he gives, so he can teach me how to speak draconic, and be like my mentor as Dragon disciple....

And i have much time to learn, because um still level 3, and i can get DD just in level 6...

Learning languages in D&D happens by placing points in the "Speak Language"-skill. It's cross-class for everybody else but Bards so you need to place two ranks in it to learn one skill but it's really that easy: two skill points and your character learns Draconic.

[Raul Leão]

ok then hahaha i forget about this...

[Eldariel]

ok then hahaha i forget about this...

You can roleplay it however you like. The mechanical aspect is really that simple though, so don't worry about it too much :) Always, when characters learn new stuff, it should be assumed they're training somehow to acquire the new knowledge (though it can be general like learning new maneuvers in combat or mastering new spells or spell levels due to the overall volume of magic use, but it can also be more specific like learning a language or a particular ability consciously over the last level).

For instance, your idea could work quite well for a character development story; perhaps someone could realize you have dragonblood in you and help you awaken it or some such, if that's how you'd like to play it (you can of course explain the powers granted by Dragon Disciple in a myriad of ways). The first step would of course be to learn your ancestral language (language is a key part in thinking after all; perhaps you need to master Draconic to be able to access your ancestral powers in the first place) and then awakening the dragonblood. Work with your DM, see how to go about that. And yeah, see with your DM about what kind of a Dragon you could ride if that's, again, your thing.