How would you keep PCs locked up?

[GiantOctopodes]

In the thread regarding spellcasting and grappling, I've been positing the merits of enabling ways to take away the ability to cast spells which require a V, S, or M component, so that you can (relatively) safely contain a spellcaster, without them burning down your prison, killing all of your guards, and / or escaping on a whim. This led to me thinking, though- how *would* you keep a group of mid to high level adventurers locked up?

Sure, I know the answer, you don't- they're the heroes of the story, and there's nothing heroic about being locked up, the only reason they stay locked up is if they want to, somewhat like superman, just to make their case at the trial or whatever and prove they mean no harm. Otherwise the Barbarian, Paladin or Fighter smashes the locks, the bard or rogue picks the lock, the Cleric gets his diety to intervene, the druid turns into a small animal and slips through the bars, the Monk either teleports away (if a shadow monk) or waits for the guard to arrive, then absolutely *destroys* him despite being shackled and unarmed, the Ranger camouflages with the wall, so it looks like he's escaped, then actually escapes when the door is opened to investigate, the Sorcerer uses metamagic to cast spells anyway, the Warlock does whatever his patron allows (if the archfey, he just teleports out of there, if the fiend, he uses the dark one's own luck to pick the lock, if the great old one, he turns the guard into his thrall and has him assist with the escape), and the wizard does whatever his school allows (a conjuration specialist conjures a copy of the key he saw the guard use, an enchantment specialist charms the guard to let him out, a transmutation specialist turns the lock into clay, a necromancy specialist has his undead army storm the place, and a divination specialist doesn't get caught in the first place, let's be real here).

Yet, that being said, let's examine it from the other perspective: Let's say you're the leader of an old and powerful empire. You've been around for a long time, and though in general your kingdom has learned that the best thing to do with powerful individuals is to stay out of their way when possible, there are times when justice must be served, and even powerful adventurers need to be brought to heel. This isn't your first trip through that little adventure, either, so you've had generations to hone your art of holding someone captive when necessary. Or you're an evil empire, and the same is true. Either way. What tricks can you employ to keep adventurers from escaping, or at minimum make it more difficult?

Here's what I've got so far:


Have them bound in such a way they are bound and gagged, but the gag accepts the end of a feeding tube connected to the solid iron door above them. The cell is 200+ feet straight down, and is surrounded by lava outside its very thick walls. The cell's "door" is the ceiling, above which is an entirely vertical shaft of totally sheer metal, thoroughly greased in such a way as to be impossible to climb. The top is of course also sealed. Neither "door" is ever opened, rather, food (in a mushy, oatmeal like gruel form which does not require chewing) or water is put through a one way flow control valve embedded into the top door, where it drips down into the chute and lands on top of the second door, which is slightly sloped to allow it to slide into a second one way flow control valve to go into the feeding tube. The prisoners are occasionally scryed upon to ensure they are still alive and captive. Prisoners are bound, gagged, and blindfolded before being lowered into this (while unconscious) through ropes. One person rides down with them to attach the feeding tube once they're down there, but otherwise no human contact occurs at any point.

I think I'm getting closer, as with this setup the only class I can see easily and reliably escaping is the sorcerer, whom I can't find any way whatsoever to prevent from just teleporting out of anywhere he so chooses using metamagic. Any thoughts? Does that sound like a viable (albeit grimdark) setup? Is there *any* way to prevent a sorcerer from using metamagic and teleporting out of wherever he or she is contained?

[Xetheral]

Back in 3.5 my players realized how hard it was to keep a high-level prisoner, and so when they captured anyone theatening they resorted to keeping the prisoner unconscious through regular application of nonlethal damage.

It strained my immersion almost to the breaking point (particularly when they named the tactic sleep-and-beat), but by making the moral aspect of their actions part of the IC dynamic, we managed to muddle through. I never did come up with a more satisfactory way to deal with issue, and these days tend to avoid giving PCs reason to keep prisoners for any longer than necessary. (E.g. interrogations are quick and then there is some incentive either to release them or turn them over to the authorities.)

I don't think I've ever taken a PC prisoner. It's rare that I find myself with a group that would enjoy that sort of plot. Once I had a group choose to become prisoners to effect an infiltration, but there the whole point was that they went in preparing to escape.

[GiantOctopodes]

I don't think I've ever taken a PC prisoner. It's rare that I find myself with a group that would enjoy that sort of plot. Once I had a group choose to become prisoners to effect an infiltration, but there the whole point was that they went in preparing to escape.

Yeah, there's nothing fun about being made powerless and taking meaningful choice away from a player. I would never endorse actually locking a PC up in a better mousetrap, unless you have *very* good reason to do so, this is more just for theorycrafting sake. Also from a design standpoint, if the PCs ever need to rescue a powerful individual from a BBEG or whatever, I suppose it would be nice if the prisoner was actually contained in such a way they didn't just ridicule the person for not having escaped on their own earlier. And I suppose, if I as a PC ever wanted to keep someone prisoner, but didn't have 9th level spells to cast imprisonment, it would be nice to have a viable setup with which to do so.

I do realize, too, that the "correct" solution per the game is to just cast imprisonment and call it a day, or have them rescue someone under the effects of imprisonment, etc. But that's too obvious, and I don't want to have *every* situation like this solved through 9th level spells.

[Knaight]

I don't think I've ever taken a PC prisoner. It's rare that I find myself with a group that would enjoy that sort of plot. Once I had a group choose to become prisoners to effect an infiltration, but there the whole point was that they went in preparing to escape.

I've done it, and it's rarely an issue. However, I usually do one of two things after.

1) If they've got a good chance of escape, I'll cut to their scene shortly, which will probably be an escape attempt. This is generally with sloppier capture attempts (for instance, a PC was caught, tied up, and stuffed in a ship storage locker in a recent game. He wasn't searched well enough to get rid of his boot knife, and unknown to the captors was basically a contortionist. Capture didn't last long).

2) If escape is unlikely, then the player gets a new character immediately. It's generally a temporary character, and odds are good that the old one will either be broken out or will be freed somehow in the future at which point they'll switch back. This works even better if troupe play is in effect. It also works for severe injuries, if system tweaks are in place to make healing take a while.

[PrinceOfMadness]

I think the simplest solution (if you just need them to stay put for a while) would be regular application of some drug (homebrew or otherwise) that keeps them comatose. Just be prepared for your party members to go out and find that drug for their own purposes after you've used it against them.

[MadBear]

(particularly when they named the tactic sleep-and-beat)

I'd like to just stop and admire the absolute hilarity of not only their tactic, but the fact that they gave it this name :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Mostlymad]

Plenty of non 9th level spells can possibly prevent teleportation... spells like hallow, antimagic sphere, etc.

[Oncoming Storm]

Hey, my party once captured an Illithid. couldn't let it wake up or it would mind blast us round 1, couldn't let it's mind be detected by the others, and had to transport it across half a country. The solution? A lead-lined coffin on wheels, with a lead plunger in the top. The halfing rode on top of the cart and at periodic intervals, whacked the illithid with the plunger to keep it unconscious.

THAT was hilarious-especially keeping the coffin safe through random encounters on the road.

[Baptor]

I would put them into an overly complicated and easily escapable trap with one indept guard, shut the door and assume it all went to plan.

What?

[dukeofwolfsgate]

Well, there are more than a few ways to deal with magic. My favorite is the cell with an permanent Antimagic Field (pg. 213 PH). In the Forgotten Realms they often call something like this a "dead magic zone" or some such. This effectively deals with teleportation and just about all other arcane methods of escape.

For mobile imprisonment, there is another favorite of mine: mage shackles! In Richard Baker's Swordmage: "Mage shackles were enchanted with negation spells that simply absorb any magic a captive tried to summon before it could be shaped into even the simplest spell."

In regards to the monk's Shadow Step, they have to be able to see where they are going... A windowless stone cell with a solid door solves that right quick.

As for picking locks... In neither real nor fantasy setting, would a prison or jail ever have a lock on the inside of the cell. The lock would almost always be a deadbolt on the outside of the cell, or a lever-activated deadbolt down the hallway for more advanced prisons.

If magic were enough of an issue that guards were regularly being Charmed in some way, then the people in charge would probably give them some means of countering that. An anit-charm necklace or mind-shielding helmet would work.

Cell doors would require multiple Strength checks to break down, and the sound would alert guards to the escape attempt. Assuming that the guards are armed and the players are not, the 5e rules for Knocking a Creature Out on pg. 198 of the PH should make it possible for the guards to subdue the players. Imprisoned characters should have neither weapons nor armor, drastically reducing the AC's of all but some Barbarians and Monks. Even mid level characters should have a lot of trouble escaping from a prepared prison in a fantasy setting.

The Restrained and Paralyzed conditions in the PH Appendix A are also every useful.

Heck, its a fantasy setting! Make the Evil Empire have a prison system that Petrifies prisoners until their release! Or have the guards all be fey of some kind that Charm their prisoners into behaving!

[DireSickFish]

Turning them into stone until you are ready to deal with them actually seems feasible. Especially for higher level prisoners.

My go to prison was a stone cell that was opend and closed with shape stone. Good for low-mid lvl parties. Teleport will get you out, as will stone shape obviously. But as long as you take away there picks or whatever it's serviceable.

It is sad that keeping the prisoner unconscious is the default and best method. I would rule him dead eventually if they kept up the beating method. It just doesn't sound sustainable.

[Shining Wrath]

Using only magic available in the PHB it is fairly difficult.

Homebrewing a set of shackles specifically designed to prevent the summoning of ki or the manipulation of the Weave shuts most things down. Making them of adamantium impairs even Barbarians.

First, though, I notice that the PCs have been captured in the first place. You are able to incapacitate them or daunt them into surrender. So you do that.

And then you put them in separate buildings, taking care that none of them has any idea where the others are held. And then you inform them that if any one of them escapes, the rest will be summarily executed as soon as the escape is noticed. This makes it a very high risk operation to say "I'm going to escape and free the others".

Each of them is in a cell lined with lead (on the outside, away from the PC) to make scrying difficult, which also helps make the room airtight against sneaky druids in ant form. You do have to open the door often enough that they don't suffocate - the room needs to have sufficient volume.

When you do open the door, the first thing the PC sees is the central eye of a beholder held by some guards who just had True Seeing cast on them. Then tiny creatures carry in the food and carry away the chamber pot. Then the door closes again.

[JoeJ]

I would put them into an overly complicated and easily escapable trap with one indept guard, shut the door and assume it all went to plan.

What?

Don't forget to gloat over your helpless enemies. And, of course, you should tell them all the details of your evil plan, since they'll soon be dead so the knowledge won't do them any good.

[Shining Wrath]

Don't forget to gloat over your helpless enemies. And, of course, you should tell them all the details of your evil plan, since they'll soon be dead so the knowledge won't do them any good.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/iRlh_w6uRds" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> You caught me MONOLOGING!

[Marcelinari]

Hmm. It would be hard to make it foolproof, but the Hallow spell offers a lot of use in this situation, especially the dimensional lock variant.

Consider: a 10x10 stone room with a straw sleeping mattress. The door is solid oak with a barred viewhole, sealed with a deadlock on the outside and an Arcane Lock. The prisoner is manacled on a 5ft chain to the centre of the room, their hands bound with restraints and, if a known spelluser, with special gloves to prevent them from bending fingers. The room opens onto a 60ft antechamber filled with another hallow spell, this one shedding light. A guard post is kept 200ft down from the antechamber.

The guards are trained to respond to Knocks (audible up to 300ft away) with extreme prejudice, and to deny food to prisoners who attempt to attack them with magic/feet. All equipment is stripped from the prisoners, they are provided with clothes.

I can see 2 ways of freeing oneself from this predicament, 1) be a sorcerer with still spell (or whatever the equivalent is now) or 2) cast wish. I guess 3) is 'cast knock 3 times and fight your way out'.

[Baptor]

Don't forget to gloat over your helpless enemies. And, of course, you should tell them all the details of your evil plan, since they'll soon be dead so the knowledge won't do them any good.

That's my favorite part! I mean if we are honest with ourselves, that's why we captured them instead of killing them in the first place, amiright? :smallwink:


You caught me MONOLOGING!

Ack, I hate it when that happens? Whatever happened to manners? Whatever happened to waiting until the villain's speech is done to attack? Some people's kids.


And then you put them in separate buildings, taking care that none of them has any idea where the others are held. And then you inform them that if any one of them escapes, the rest will be summarily executed as soon as the escape is noticed. This makes it a very high risk operation to say "I'm going to escape and free the others".

Each of them is in a cell lined with lead (on the outside, away from the PC) to make scrying difficult, which also helps make the room airtight against sneaky druids in ant form. You do have to open the door often enough that they don't suffocate - the room needs to have sufficient volume.

When you do open the door, the first thing the PC sees is the central eye of a beholder held by some guards who just had True Seeing cast on them. Then tiny creatures carry in the food and carry away the chamber pot. Then the door closes again.

*Sigh* Scott....you just don't get it, do you? You don't.

[Osiris]

Have them bound in such a way they are bound and gagged, but the gag accepts the end of a feeding tube connected to the solid iron door above them. The cell is . . . . snipped

The trick is to just cut their tongue out of their mouth. They can no longer pronounce verbal spells!
As for eating? The tongue is not essential; if your DM really cares, just dribble soup down into their mouth via a long tube.
Problem solved. I think.

[GiantOctopodes]

The trick is to just cut their tongue out of their mouth. They can no longer pronounce verbal spells!
As for eating? The tongue is not essential; if your DM really cares, just dribble soup down into their mouth via a long tube.
Problem solved. I think.

Well, that's a bit more grimdark than I would normally go, but it definitely works... Maybe for a brutal BBEG, but any PCs or "good" empires that follow that practice are likely to run into serious trouble in a hurry. Though I wonder if "temporary mutilation" could be a real thing in a world where you can magically regenerate missing limbs? Cut out their tongue, cut off their arms and legs, etc, and then just cast regenerate on them when their sentence is served. Brutal, but... viable?

[Grayson01]

Hey, my party once captured an Illithid. couldn't let it wake up or it would mind blast us round 1, couldn't let it's mind be detected by the others, and had to transport it across half a country. The solution? A lead-lined coffin on wheels, with a lead plunger in the top. The halfing rode on top of the cart and at periodic intervals, whacked the illithid with the plunger to keep it unconscious.

THAT was hilarious-especially keeping the coffin safe through random encounters on the road.

That is the greatest thing I have ever herd!

[PinkysBrain]

Why did they remove forbiddance's ability to block planar travel from within???

Nevermind, I see ... they wanted to decouple teleportation from the astral plane, so they did a little rewrite but in the process pretty much accidentally left out the blocking of teleportation from within.

[Celcey]

One this that would held keep magic-users in place would be to cast silence on them.

[Heartspan]

I would just kill them, the rez them later should they be needed. (Or if they were proven innocent, woops)

[Angelalex242]

Presumably, this thread should be thought of 'how do noble good guys keep evil powerhouses who surrender prisoner?'

Well, in the Batman universe, you don't. They escape within a week or so, because they need to write another comic.

I think it's most logical for 'Batman rules apply' and sending people to prison, while ethical, never actually works.

And while going Punisher on your foes DOES work, divine casters soon find themselves without their abiltiies, and everyone else finds themselves without popular support, as their alignments slip to evil and all the Paladins and clerics are trying to deal with THEM.

[Logosloki]

If you want to keep a high level prisoner that has innate escape mechanisms then you can't go wrong with flesh to stone. I remember in 3.5 there was a castle that was mentioned in either dungeon or dragon. It was a really nice article but sadly it is one of the magazines I am missing. The castle was a prison for hire. Kingdoms had the options from State rooms (political prisioners) right down to the lower levels which featured denizens deemed so evil (or simply too powerful for people to deal with) that they were flesh to stoned. It is a shame the place eludes me because it was one of the best settings I have ever wanted to put a prison break on.

[bulbaquil]

I would just kill them, the rez them later should they be needed. (Or if they were proven innocent, woops)

Except that you can refuse a resurrection, no saving throw required.

[Beleriphon]

I'm fan of flesh to stone prisons.

[Angelalex242]

Flesh to Stone has a saving throw, and most prisons don't have a wizard lying around who can cast it.

It's an 11th level wizard to cast it even once. Most bad guys worth the effort will make their save. Then they've got the entire day to escape.

Hence, Batman prison.

[asorel]

I would just kill them, the rez them later should they be needed. (Or if they were proven innocent, woops)

As mentioned earlier, resurrections can be refused. Furthermore, this somewhat defeats the rehabilitation aspect of imprisonment. Finally, even for a large empire, this can get quite expensive, even if you reserve the treatment for mid-to-high level adventurers.

[ChristofRomuald]

Greetings,

"Locking up" PCs is actually a fairly simple task.

If they are proficient in Heavy Armor - take it away from them. Typical restraints from there on out will suffice, provided you reduce their strength to a -1 penalty (Breaking chains requires a DC 20 strength check, so with a -1 modifier, they can break no chain)

If they are NOT proficient in Heavy armor - Put them in heavy armor.
Pg 144: Armor Proficiency: Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor's use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certian types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving thow, or attack roll that involves strength or dexterity, AND YOU CAN'T CAST SPELLS.

Also, please refer to the donning and doffing rules of armor on page 146: Heavy Armor 10 minutes to don (put on, 5 with help), 5 to remove (2 min 30 sec to remove with help). Having any guard watch over them as they attempt to break their restraints so they could take the armor off means even if they are in no way restrained you have 5 minutes (or 50 rounds) to stop them.

In addition to the inability to cast spells, the following class abilities cease to function when non proficient armor is used:
Barbarian: Rage, Unarmored Defense, Fast Movement, Spirit Walker, Totemic Attunement, Reckless Attack (Negated due to disadvantage on attack rolls)
Bard: Battle Magic
Druid: Wildshape - Not sure how this would function, as if you tied the chains to the armor and the wall it would double as restraints. But if the armor is made of metal... Entirely relies on the DM, but still better off than where we were before.
Monk: Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts, Unarmored Movement, Disciple of the Elements
Rogue: Mage Hand Legerdmain, Magical Ambush, Versatile Trickster, Spell Thief, Sneak Attack

The only wild cards are Druid - whose wildshape can likely get them out of anything, rules as written, and level 20 clerics who can simply ask to be released.

Without gear, Fighters, Paladins, and Rangers are naturally effectively shut down - just make the armor painted bright pink to prevent a ranger from hiding. Rogues are similarly shut down, as disadvantage removes sneak attack, and applying even a slight penalty to dex and strength instantly makes things as mundane as shackles impossible barriers.

While wearing armor, Wizards, Warlocks, Sorcerers, and Bards are completely shut down, completely reliant upon str and dex based skills to escape, which they will be rolling with disadvantage with.

The only thing you need to come up with is what provides a penalty to str / dex - and going with the armor theme, hows about a set of cursed Ring Mail that gives - 6 str/dex? That'll stop nearly every character.
[Edit] Or in keeping with how magic items currently function, instead of applying a bonus or a penalty to the strength and dexterity score, the cursed armor would make the str and dex score 9 of anyone wearing it.

[Easy_Lee]

I would just create an imbued shackle from a far off kingdom which despises magic. These shackles should specifically prevent the casting of spells and have the hardness of adamantite. The added benefit is, if your players find a way out, they can keep the shackles and use them on a high-profile prisoner later.