call lightning/detect evil spell

[kulosle]

Im sure other people have seen the picture I'm talking about, but what level spell would it be. Lets say it was everyone within 30ft that was evil was hit by a lightning bolt for 3d6 damage, reflex for half. Duration is instantaneous. Call lightning is a 3rd level spell so some of my group think this new spell (righteous smite ?) Should be 4th, but I'm of the opinion that this is definitely not more powerful than call lightning. Its probably less powerful. But the utility probably makes it 3rd level. Thoughts?

[Kamai]

I assume from your description that this spell doesn't scale at all? If that's the case, given the short range, you can probably safely put this at Cleric 2. It is true that Clerics aren't supposed to have blasting, but alignment spells are supposed to be their thing, and the fact it doesn't scale keeps it weak enough. When you compare it to fireball, the safe targeting is nice, but the fact it's centered on you, and that it's lower power doesn't warrant a 3rd level slot.

If it were short range and 3d6 + 1d6/3 levels (max 8d6 at 15th), I think you have a spell that's appropriately Cleric 3.

Your other comparison is Call Lightning, which has medium range, minor AoE against creatures in the air, unrestricted targeting, and the ability to spread out the attacks in a small dungeon, and the ability to keep striking the same target, and it seems to me you have a fair comparison with the above change (and I'd never take the self-centered non-scaling one over Call Lightning if both were on the same list).

[jedipotter]

You really should post the full spell details.....


But if it only effects evil, then that is worth a one level drop. That makes the spell weak compare to a spell that damages everyone.

[nonsi]

You really should post the full spell details.....


But if it only effects evil, then that is worth a one level drop. That makes the spell weak compare to a spell that damages everyone.

On the contrary - it skips all allies that are not evil.
It's a great solution when engulfed by an army of mooks.

[AtlasSniperman]

On the contrary - it skips all allies that are not evil.
It's a great solution when engulfed by an army of mooks.

But, But, my pc's would always be hit :( xD

In seriousness, I would agree with Kamai on this point. Another way to think of it is: the spell targets everyone in the area, but only damages evil. Which would still be around level 3 IMO

to make it a level 4 spell would require it scale range or damage with caster level. Or make the damage dependent on the Aura power that detect evil would detect(Faint(1d6), Moderate(2d6), Strong(3d6) or Overwhelming(4d6))

[kulosle]

So we've discussed it and our group wants it to be mostly a utility so that all your allies now know whos evil, and that the lightning is more for dramatic affect than anything else. We still want it to deal damage (for funzies) and what not but don't want it to scale so that it stays a lower level. We would rather the range be as high as possible while it's still a second level spell. So how good would the second level spell of this be?

[Kamai]

The new parameters turn it into a Detect Evil with a larger range and doesn't have the concentration. Maybe something like this:

Holy Beacon
Cleric 2
School: Divination [Good]
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Effect: 120 feet radius centered on you
Components: V, S, DF
Saving Throw: Will negates (object); Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

You invoke the forces to bring forth a wide but crude display of energy to help you find your foes. Any creature whose perceived alignment is Evil within it's range must make a Will Save. If he fails, a bright bolt of lightning courses from the caster to the creature, showing it's exact location. This beacon also forces the weight of it's evil acts to press on the creature, doing subdual damage based on the strength of it's aura as per Detect Evil.


Aura Strength
Damage


Faint
1d4


Moderate
1d8


Strong
2d6


Overwhelming
4d6



If the spell does not penetrate spell resistance, the lightning bolt will not pinpoint the target.

[redwizard007]

Level 3 is the absolute minimum for that spell.

[Debihuman]

How does the spell perceive a creature's alignment? You should state "as a detect evil spell with the following exceptions...." Casting detect evil doesn't let you immediately know how potent a creature's evil aura is. It takes 3 rounds to discover and you have to concentrate. How is this different? Too much information is missing. Also detect evil has no save but this does.

You are invoking which forces exactly? I'll put my changes and questions in red.

Holy Beacon
Cleric 3
School: Divination [Good]
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Effect: 120 feet radius centered on you
Components: V, S, DF
Saving Throw: Will negates (object); Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

You invoke the forces of Good to bring forth a wide but crude display of energy to help you find your foes. The spell detects any creature whose perceived alignment is Evil as detect evil within its range. [Do you still have to concentrate and wait the 3 rounds for the detection to take place? See detect evil spell].

If he [should this be any target that fails its save?] fails, [Note detect evil has NO save so how does the affected creature fail? Or does this spell act like an inferior version of detect evil spell and give the creatures a save?] a bright bolt of lightning courses from the caster to the creature, showing1 its exact location. This beacon also forces the weight of its evil acts to press on the creature, doing subdual damage based on the strength of its aura as per detect evil.

While I sorta like this spell, it's not yet complete. You have to spell out the mechanics better.
1 I'd change show to pinpoint. Does it reveal hidden creatures as well or do you need line of sight?
Debby

[kulosle]

Okay how about this?

Holy Beacon
Divination [Good]
Level: Cleric 2
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Effect: 60 feet radius centered on you (still up to debate how far it should go)
Duration: Instantaneous
Components: V, S, DF
Saving Throw: Reflex partial; Spell Resistance: Yes

You invoke the forces of good to bring forth a wide but crude display of energy to help you find your foes. The spell detects evil as the spell detect evil except it requires no concentration and you only learn the number of evil presences in the area. A bright bolt of lightning courses from the sky hitting any creature within range whose perceived alignment is Evil, dealing 1d6/3 caster levels (max 5d6 at 15) of electricity damage (reflex half). The spell will strike hidden creatures but grants no ability to detect the creature. Anyone who sees the lighting strike a square may make a spot check with a +2 circumstance bonus to see the creature in the square struck.

If the spell does not penetrate a creatures spell resistance, the lightning bolt will not pinpoint that creature, but still effects other targets. This spell does not require line of affect or line of sight, but those who can't see the lightning can't know which creatures got struck, though you still know how many were struck.

[Debihuman]

I think it's much better now.

Debby

[jedipotter]

When you ''invoke'' the forces of good...that is kinda a hint that your spell should be an Evocation.

Any reason the ''forces of good'' are doing Electrical damage? Why not Holy damage? Or even just ''pure divine power'' like Flame Strike?

You don't really need to go overboard with the divination part. Plenty of Alignment spells ''detect alignment'' without being divination. When you cast Holy Word, and Sage Smith suddenly dies....well guess what alignment he was...

[Kamai]

Debi, I know it's moot, but thanks for pointing out my mistakes. What I had really intended was to use Detect Evil only for the classification of aura strength. It was intended to pinpoint invisible creatures, but the spell did nothing if it was negated, and it was supposed to be an inferior version of a Detect Evil spell to make up for the range and utility. Given this, do you think it just had too much range to be a Cleric 2, even though it's automatically fooled by alignment masking spells?

[kulosle]

Holy Beacon
Divination [Good]
Level: Cleric 2
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Effect: 60 feet radius centered on you
Duration: Instantaneous
Components: V, S, DF
Saving Throw: Reflex partial; Spell Resistance: Yes

You call upon the forces of good to bring forth a wide but crude display of energy to help you find your foes. The spell detects evil as the spell detect evil except it requires no concentration and you only learn the number of evil presences in the area. A bright bolt of lightning courses from the sky hitting any creature within range whose perceived alignment is Evil, dealing 1d6/3 caster levels (max 5d6 at 15) of divine damage (reflex half). The spell will strike hidden creatures but grants no ability to detect the creature. Anyone who sees the lighting strike a square may make a spot check with a +2 circumstance bonus to see the creature in the square struck.

If the spell does not penetrate a creatures spell resistance, the lightning bolt will not pinpoint that creature, but still effects other targets. This spell does not require line of affect or line of sight, but those who can't see the lightning can't know which creatures got struck, though you still know how many were struck.

Yeah I went with electricity cause i was still thinking call lightning. Should I change the description of the spell so it doesn't say lightning? I guess lightning could still do divine damage. Umm, I don't really feel like it's an evocation spell. Especially cause it's primary purpose it just to figure out who to attack. It's damage is laughable.

[redwizard007]

Lvl 2 spell = lvl 3 cleric.

Lvl 3 clerics should not be able to do 1d6 damage to all evil creatures within 60'. Especially not a type of damage that is difficult to resist.

This is BARE MINIMUM a level 3 spell!

What lvl 3 cleric (2nd lvl spell) doesn't take this? As a level 5 cleric (3rd lvl spell) it's still a useable spell but less of a must have. Even then I'd drop the aoe to 20' or 30'.