OOTS #970 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Oncoming Storm]

THOG?! Is it really you?

[Porthos]

:elan: Dun Dun DUNNNNNN!!!!

[Sylthia]

THOG?! Is it really you?

My thought, too.

I think this is the earliest I've ever seen a comic go up.

[teratorn]

YAY, nuff said!

[Octopusapult]

THOG?! Is it really you?

Had the same thought, but I don't know how it could be. How would Thog catch up to the Order if Tarquin couldn't? Also, I doubt if he'd be smart enough to approach with stealth.

[T.G. Oskar]

THOG?! Is it really you?

Perhaps. Though those eyes aren't very friendly.

Or maybe Thog and Therkla's illegitimate child? That'd be "DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN!!!!!" worthy. Considering that those angry eyes wouldn't be aimed to anyone other than Roy, to have them eyed at Haley and Elan is kinda suspicious.

There's also other Orcs and Half-Orcs around.

[Porthos]

THOG?! Is it really you?


My thought, too.

I think this is the earliest I've ever seen a comic go up.

No, I'm thinking another returning villain, personally (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Oracle_of_Void]

No, I'm thinking another returning villain, personally (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). Maybe I'm wrong though.

That's a good point! I forgot about that guy. Eager for the next strip Giant!

[Canisius]

No, I'm thinking another returning villain, personally (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). Maybe I'm wrong though.

Yeah, at first I was hoping for it to be Thog, but he rarely scowled unless he was attacking. Put me in the Bozzok pool. And who else would scowl just at the sight of Haley?

[Porthos]

That's a good point! I forgot about that guy. Eager for the next strip Giant!

The eyes being angry/pissed off is what makes me think more "Bozzok" than "Thog". Haven't done a color comparison though, beyond a quick, ahem, eye test.

[otakuryoga]

No, I'm thinking another returning villain, personally (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). Maybe I'm wrong though.

like many i am hoping for Thog
but Bozzok is more likely

[Ninjadeadbeard]

THOG?! Is it really you?

Ahhhhh s*********t. WHY WON'T HE STAY DEAD!?

[littlebum2002]

Totally called it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?297098-Why-does-Haley-use-potions)

[The DeathKnight]

Is it Thog?! i feel he wants us to think its the Leader of the Thieves Guild, since he showed them at the end of the last book! :)

[oppyu]

I didn't think of it, but yeah Bozzok makes a lot more sense than Thog. I'd like to see the Thieves Guild get another shot at a villain arc when we aren't in the middle of a drawn out party split sidequest.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, no more asking about what Haley did with those wands.

I wonder who this new stranger could be...

Excellent comic, as always!

[Porthos]

Is that Bozzock???

If it isn't Bozzok, it might be a relative/associate of his keeping tabs on the Order.

===

Also, am I the only one who read a bit of innuendo in the sixth panel of today's strip? :smallredface: :smallwink:

[Greil9]

More likely to be Bozzok. As people pointed out

1. Thog would have very hard time catching them, even with Tarquin's aid. OOTS took a lot of precautions to avoid being tracked. Then again, I'm not discounting the possibility that Tarquin assumed they would land there for fuel etc. Possible, but not probable.
2. Thog would just kick the door down and not sneak around.
3. Why would Tarquin send Thog? Even if he lied that OOTS killed Nale (not to hard I imagine considering Thog's presumably low wisdom) he's a wild card and could just as easily be convinced it was actually Tarquin who killed Nale. Unless he sent him specifically to give his son a better chance to be the hero of the story by getting his old enemy to join him AND it would make for a really good story. Seems like something Tarquin would do.

Still, even if it is Bozzok one would have to ask how he knew to be there. Sure, he knew their destination but not about the stop they would make on the way. Then again he could just deduce they can't make the entire trip without refueling at some point. Guess we'll find out in the next few comics.

[Lheticus]

Is it Thog?! i feel he wants us to think its the Leader of the Thieves Guild, since he showed them at the end of the last book! :)

I think...that if we think The Giant wants us to think it's Bozzok, it is DEFINITELY not Bozzok. :smalltongue:

[Tvtyrant]

If it isn't Bozzok, it might be a relative/associate of his keeping tabs on the Order.

===

Also, am I the only one who read a bit of innuendo in the sixth panel of today's strip? :smallredface: :smallwink:

I saw it! :D

I really like that the comics haven't been as fast paced recently. Having some cool down comics after the anime style endless battle from 899 to 936 is good, allows for more dialogue.

[Porthos]

Still, even if it is Bozzok one would have to ask how he knew to be there. Sure, he knew their destination but not about the stop they would make on the way. Then again he could just deduce they can't make the entire trip without refueling at some point. Guess we'll find out in the next few comics.

Him arriving there already (beyond factoring in the likelyhood of a "1 in a million" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html) chance) is what leads me to thinking the secondary idea of it being an associate of Bozzok.

There are Thieves Guilds in other towns, after all. Bozzok might have gotten the word out to associates and that's who we're seeing here.

So, either Bozzok or an associate/colleague of his.

[Grey Watcher]

Also, am I the only one who read a bit of innuendo in the sixth panel of today's strip? :smallredface: :smallwink:

Nope. :smalltongue:

Also, if he's gonna follow them into the frozen north, it looks like everybody gets half-orc flavored snow cones after all!

[Prophet_of_Io]

I thought Thog at first glance too but Bozzak makes WAY more sense.

Nice to see a new comic, great way to start my winter break!

[ChaosArchon]

is Thog back? Yay!!! :thog: :thog: :thog:

On a more serious note, this probably means they'll fight with the Linear Guild again before leaving the town.

[Canisius]

I saw it! :D

I really like that the comics haven't been as fast paced recently. Having some cool down comics after the anime style endless battle from 899 to 936 is good, allows for more dialogue.

I may get a warning for this, but I think the slower pace may have to do with the new graphics. Stick figures are quicker to draw, and Rich is probably busy with running the OOTS empire or other pursuits or enjoying a holiday season like the rest of us. Please don't ban me. Can't get enough of OOTS

That endless battle to me was almost like a movie script treatment.. we really got an insight into the motivations and alignments of the various characters. And there were a lot of surprising murders. And turnings.

[t209]

Bozzok. We meet again you Half-breed mongrel* mob boss.
*How racist if OOTS-verse towards half orcs again?

[oppyu]

It could also be a goblin... say, someone's goblin niece? :smallbiggrin:

[Porthos]

It could also be a goblin... say, someone's goblin niece? :smallbiggrin:

Goblins are the wrong shade. :smalltongue:

[CoffeeIncluded]

As someone currently playing a rogue, I must agree that the comment about wands is both hilarious and completely accurate.

So other than Thog and Therkla, what orcs or half-orcs do we know?

EDIT: oh. The head of the thieves guild.

[RebelRogue]

Dun dun dun ...

[GAAD]

Guys guys guys.
Also: Girls girls girls.
Also also: Other other other.

This isn't Thog. Thog is dead. This is clearly his twin brother Goht, here to wreak vengeance upon the Order of the Stick in a totes-original-you-have-to-believe-me way.

Also also also: Panels 2 and 5. Hilarious.

[ti'esar]

Gasp! It's... a green person who we can't possibly identify based on this one glance except through sheer dumb luck!

The wands panel was hilarious.

[Cizak]

Can't be Thog. Thog got the same kind of eyes as Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0796.html), that is when looking right the taller eye is to the right.

[ChaosArchon]

Guys guys guys.
Also: Girls girls girls.
Also also: Other other other.

This isn't Thog. Thog is dead. This is clearly his twin brother Goht, here to wreak vengeance upon the Order of the Stick in a totes-original-you-have-to-believe-me way.

I kinda of really hope that's who he is... if only because it would open up the possibility of a neutral group like the OoTS is a mostly Good group and the (most likely) defunct Linear Guild was a mostly Evil group.

[RebelRogue]

My money is on Bozzok rather than Thog, tbh. Not that I wouldn't love to see Thog again.

[Cuthalion]

Can't be Thog. Thog got the same kind of eyes as Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0796.html), that is when looking right the taller eye is to the right.

Good point. Perhaps... a new character? :smalleek:

[madtinker]

I hope it's Thog! Might not be, but I hope.

[Cuthalion]

It could be a half-orc gnome on a stepladder.... :smalltongue:

[ti'esar]

This isn't Thog. Thog is dead. This is clearly his twin brother Goht, here to wreak vengeance upon the Order of the Stick in a totes-original-you-have-to-believe-me way.

goht not about vengeance. goht about wearing black and contemplating pain of life.

Well, it was my first thought at least.

[Porthos]

The other main problem with Bozzok is he has a rather distinctive haircut that almost, but not quite, reaches the eyes. The way the picture is cropped here the hair might be able to be seen at the very top if it was there. On the other hand, it's such a closeup that it's not definitive.

Going back, I looked through some of the strips with Bozzok and him scowling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html). (More after that, as well)

So, dunno. I know I was the first one on this thread to mention Bozzok, but I can see the room for it not being him.

I will say if it isn't him, we're not supposed to be able to guess who it is quite yet.

[Glodart]

What if...
It's actually one of the orcs from the Island?
Here to punish the follower of the valse god in the name of Giggles!

[CaDzilla]

The green voyeur is just stewing in anger after they caught a glimpse of the group

[Bulldog Psion]

It's got to be Bozzok, IMO. The angry reaction, the skin color, the sneaky approach ... Thog usually only scowls when he's raging, otherwise he's pretty cheerful in his bloodthirsty, amoral way. And having a totally new antagonist show up when there's a perfectly good Thieves' Guild loose end lying around doesn't make much sense to me at this stage of the game.

That said, we'll just have to wait and see! :smallbiggrin:

[WindStruck]

I also think it's Bozzok, although since he is the head of the thieves' guild, why would he go and be spying on haley personally when he could just be lazy and send some lackey to do it? Perhaps a lackey is too unskilled to go without detection, and now that Ian Starshine is no longer being duped by his cousin (I forget the relation to Geoff), Bozzok will try to get to Ian through Haley once again? Could be quite personal after all, from what she did to Crystal...

A part of me also hopes it is Therkla. :smallbiggrin: I imagine the angry look is because she is jealous of Haley having her boyfriend!

[jidasfire]

Hmm, interesting development. I was hoping we'd get to see what became of Tarquin's whip (I still hope Elan gets it), but it's good to know that Haley is now a wand machine. This whole arc has shown the Order getting suitably powered up, which likely means they're going to be facing some deadly serious trouble down the pike, and I am glad it seems to be coming sooner rather than later.

As for greenie, my money is on Bozzok, though I am forced to wonder just what he thinks he can do. After all, Haley and Belkar, despite being lower level, clobbered him last time, and their level gap is presumably lower now. With Crystal out of commission, he doesn't even have any great enforcers left, and the rest of the Order is not particularly far away. I suppose a master thief can be wily and clever and have a good plan, but I just don't see him having the might to pull it together without some major help or new allies/powers.

As such, I can't help but wonder (and this is getting into wild guess territory) if Durkula isn't going to get ahold him and vampirize old Bozzok. That would make him both a deadly underling as well as a nasty threat to Haley that he simply isn't right now. But as I've almost never been right about my guesses in the comic, I presume I am wrong here too, however cool it would be.

[Animidest]

Wow, more costume changes? ARE we going to see action figures?? I would totally buy them.

[Balancer12]

Nice bit of innuendo with the wands heh

[jidasfire]

Argh, I just got the wand joke with Bandana! Now I feel dumb.

[Aerolith]

Could be Thog or Bozzok, or someone new! So much potential for misleading the reader. :smallbiggrin:

Glad to see Haley dabbling in magic, giving insight and hilarity on a non-caster working with magic. Those starry eyes, why aren't they a new emoticon already! Nah, just kidding, but the background and text with those eyes really makes that panel sell wonderfully.

[gerryq]

THOG?! Is it really you?

The colour is right, but Thog's head is more spherical.

And waiting and watching is not truly his style...

[veti]

I can't see Bozzok doing something as, let's face it, dangerous as trying to follow Haley himself, particularly after what happened last time they squared up to each other. (Reminder: Bozzok saw his entire posse decimated by just two members of the Order, plus a (pacifist) guest star. On their home turf.) And he'd have to have come a long way to be here.

Thog, however - at least he's already on the right continent.

[colanderman]

Also, am I the only one who read a bit of innuendo in the sixth panel of today's strip? :smallredface: :smallwink:

Wow, totally missed that the first read through, just like Elan seems to have. Maybe 'cause we're dudes haha.

Also totally Bozzok. That was so foreshadowed by his conversation with Geoff.

[CrispyCriminal]

As for greenie, my money is on Bozzok, though I am forced to wonder just what he thinks he can do. After all, Haley and Belkar, despite being lower level, clobbered him last time, and their level gap is presumably lower now. With Crystal out of commission, he doesn't even have any great enforcers left, and the rest of the Order is not particularly far away. I suppose a master thief can be wily and clever and have a good plan, but I just don't see him having the might to pull it together without some major help or new allies/powers.

Seems like everyone keeps forgetting about the two kids who got a hold of a bundle of diamonds from a dwarf in greysky city.

If they weren't bullied out of those diamonds, then those thieves have finally learned that there IS honor amongst thieves. Which won't happen so long as Bozzok is in control.

[The Pilgrim]

Sooo... either Bozzok, or someone totally unrelated.

Never felt the need for a rod. Nice lez pun by Bandana.

And Haley now is entitled to pull any magic trick she wants, justified by having buy a ton of wands. Just what we needed, an even more overpowered mary sue.

[Shekinah]

This comic is making me love rogues, despite being terrible at playing a rogue. I now want to play a rogue who thinks they can Use Magic Device.

[GAAD]

goht not about vengeance. goht about wearing black and contemplating pain of life.

Well, it was my first thought at least.

lizard man pronouncing goht name wrong. when goht turn red strike true.

[WickerNipple]

OMG those wands are ADORABLE! :smallbiggrin:

[colanderman]

I can't see Bozzok doing something as, let's face it, dangerous as trying to follow Haley himself, particularly after what happened last time they squared up to each other. (Reminder: Bozzok saw his entire posse decimated by just two members of the Order, plus a (pacifist) guest star. On their home turf.) And he'd have to have come a long way to be here.

Haley is not a match for (the near epic-level) Bozzok, as we saw in 609 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html). All he needs is a bag of tricks and to catch her alone and unprepared.

[maxon]

OK - so I'm here for the mad speculation as to who that is.

Who is that? mmmmm - not Thog surely? Why would it be Bozzok though?


OMG those wands are ADORABLE! :smallbiggrin:
Can we tell what they do from the colours and shapes of the top bit? The Cure Moderate Wounds is a itsy-bitsy cross which makes sense. The others?

[Bulldog Psion]

A part of me also hopes it is Therkla. :smallbiggrin: I imagine the angry look is because she is jealous of Haley having her boyfriend!

That would require some remarkable juggling, in light of the fact that she was killed and buried on an island, nobody except Elan knows she's there, and nobody except Elan gave 1/10th of a hoot about her, let alone enough to find a high level cleric and a pile of diamonds to resurrect her.

[Gnome Alone]

Argh, I just got the wand joke with Bandana! Now I feel dumb.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Me too.

And here I was just wondering, geez, why wouldn't a rogue max out UMD? For shame.

[Gnome Alone]

OK - so I'm here for the mad speculation as to who that is.

Who is that? mmmmm - not Thog surely? Why would it be Bozzok though?

Because Bozzok wants to murder Haley and she's powerful enough that he might have to do it personally. She killed half his guild the last time; makes sense to me.


Can we tell what they do from the colours and shapes of the top bit? The Cure Moderate Wounds is a itsy-bitsy cross which makes sense. The others?

It is possible that the colors correspond to the different schools of magic, and the shapes correspond to some particular type of spell, but I kinda doubt it. I'll bet wands just look like whatever the wand-maker wants them to.

[cminus]

I think Bozzok has to be the primary suspect here, but if it's not Bozzok my next guess would be the Greysky City Thieves' Guild half-orc who the cleric of Loki killed in strip 611. Bozzok likes having minions who can die for his fleeting tactical advantage, and presumably he was raised from the dead under the terms of Celia's deal.

Which makes me think we might not just be seeing Bozzok, but possibly also Hank and Chuck and Jenny and Yor and the rest. And Crystal, if Bozzok was willing to pay to have her raised out of pocket.

[theNater]

Haley is not a match for (the near epic-level) Bozzok, as we saw in 609 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html). All he needs is a bag of tricks and to catch her alone and unprepared.
Let's be clear: that strip shows that an unarmed Haley is not a match for Bozzok when he has a flanking partner. While it is probable that Bozzok has Haley straight-up outmatched, due to his level advantage, we don't know it for sure.

[maxon]

Because Bozzok wants to murder Haley and she's powerful enough that he might have to do it personally. She killed half his guild the last time; makes sense to me.
I didn't mean his motivation, sorry. I meant why would he have travelled all that way? That's the bit that doesn't make sense.

[Arcon]

The other main problem with Bozzok is he has a rather distinctive haircut that almost, but not quite, reaches the eyes. The way the picture is cropped here the hair might be able to be seen at the very top if it was there. On the other hand, it's such a closeup that it's not definitive.


Didn't we see him SHAVING the last time we saw him? Could be foreshadowing to bald Bozzok...

[Grey Watcher]

Didn't we see him SHAVING the last time we saw him? Could be foreshadowing to bald Bozzok...

As someone who's shaved his head a couple of times, it's generally a bad idea to attack a fully-grown mop like Bozzok's directly with the razor. You go have your barber cut it REALLY short, and then have it it, juggling razors, mirrors, and shaving cream like a some sort of tonsorial circus performer.

I also sincerely hope the second panel becomes a t-shirt.

[dtilque]

I was wondering if the shop Haley bought them at was the one V visited in 967 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html). The one with the partially charged wands for 50% off. But checking the details, I find they're wrong. So hopefully they're fully charged wands.

Like most others, I first thought of Thog and then Bozzok.

So how would Bozzok know they're in Tinkertown? Deduction. There's probably very few and likely no other town in this area where they could refuel and buy supplies. It's the most likely place for them to stop.


Someone upthread said something about how Thog was on the right continent, but that Bozzok would have a long way to travel. Wrong about the first part. Thog was last seen on the Western continent, while this place is on an island near the Northern continent. Both would have a long way to travel, since it's not anywhere near Greysky City, though. But I'm sure Bozzok could get ahold of a teleportation scroll fairly easily.

[theNater]

I didn't mean his motivation, sorry. I meant why would he have travelled all that way? That's the bit that doesn't make sense.
He knows she's on an airship headed for the North Pole, thanks to Geoff's report (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html) which, as Arcon notes, he receives while shaving. It's reasonable for him to assume she'll make a stop at Tinkertown, so it's just a question of whether his desire for revenge is strong enough to pull him that far.

[Gnome Alone]

I didn't mean his motivation, sorry. I meant why would he have travelled all that way? That's the bit that doesn't make sense.

And that's what I meant by "have to do it personally." Keep in mind that it might not be all that far from Greysky. We know Greysky is north of Azure City, and I get the impression that Tinkertown is north of Greysky, but I have never been able to keep the non-existent map of deliberately thin anyworld very clear in my head anyway.

But even if he has travelled a long way, I guess that would just mean that he hates her just that much, and doesn't wanna trust the job to an assassin.

[Prospekt]

Y'all do realize that the last panel is zoomed in, right? Like, realllllly zoomed in. The bottom of Bozzok's widow's peak would still be a bit above the door's window peeping thingie.

[NerdyKris]

So how would Bozzok know they're in Tinkertown? Deduction. There's probably very few and likely no other town in this area where they could refuel and buy supplies. It's the most likely place for them to stop.

Well he is the head of a large thieves guild, and has associates on another continent. It's not unlikely that he'd also have associates stationed in major port cities as well. He might have just sent out a message to all of them to alert him if she shows up, one did, and he happens to have someone or something that allows him to teleport.

You know, like Vaarsuvius is currently looking for. Hmm... fancy that. I definitely think Bozzok is going to be how they move onward.

[Bulldog Psion]

Y'all do realize that the last panel is zoomed in, right? Like, realllllly zoomed in. The bottom of Bozzok's widow's peak would still be a bit above the door's window peeping thingie.

Exactly. Plus, if his hair came almost down to his eyes, it would obscure the scowl, which would obscure the message of anger and enmity conveyed by the last panel. So artistic license would decree the hair migrate upwards a little anyway, so as to expose the frown.

[Thrillhouse]

Guys guys guys.
Also: Girls girls girls.
Also also: Other other other.

This isn't Thog. Thog is dead. This is clearly his twin brother Goht, here to wreak vengeance upon the Order of the Stick in a totes-original-you-have-to-believe-me way.

Also also also: Panels 2 and 5. Hilarious.

....thog's twin brother is the boss of Majora's Mask's Snow Temple?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I think it is, in fact, a green cardboard cut-out of a face.

Someone is holding up a stick with that cardboard cut-out on top.

[Lombard]

Panels 2,6, and 11 gave me that special tingle. :thog:

[dtilque]

You know, like Vaarsuvius is currently looking for. Hmm... fancy that. I definitely think Bozzok is going to be how they move onward.

Doubt it. At least I doubt it if it means leaving Bandana behind. I get the strong impression that she's going to be a significant character, much more so than she's been so far. So if they go onward with teleportation scrolls or wands looted/stolen from Bozzok, they'll either have to leave Bandana behind or she leaves the Mechane behind. Hard to see either of these happening.

[SaintRidley]

Bozzok's a possibility, though is there any possibility it could also be one Leeky Windstaff, standing on a crate? Since gnomes and all.

[YossarianLives]

OH MY GOD IT'S THOG!!! THIS IS THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::sma llbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggri n:

[qwertyu63]

Alright, two things:

1: Haley, wands do not use a command word; they use the spell trigger activation method. That ignorance likely explains your poor use of them.

2: Elan, how did you know what spell was in that wand from a glance? It could have been any Cure X Wounds spell, judging from Haley's comment.

[Fralex]

Oh man, I just KNEW we'd see that orc from the Wooden Forest horse-parking area again!

[GAAD]

....thog's twin brother is the boss of Majora's Mask's Snow Temple?

You're right! Clearly, after Goht's tragic defeat at the hands of the Order of the Stick, his soul, tortured by darkness and ANGST, travels to Purgatory, which, since MatPat's Game Theory is ALWAYS right, just so happens to be Termina. He is trapped in a charging bull's armor, metaphorically representing his desire for revenge among all else, and also because he is a Taurus. Link ends up defeating him, thus foiling his plot to stage the Moon Landing by having the Moon land, thereby releasing the Snarl into Hyrule and spawning the unholy abomination that is Twilight 5.
Also his armor is powered by Chemtrails.

[Keltest]

Bozzok's a possibility, though is there any possibility it could also be one Leeky Windstaff, standing on a crate? Since gnomes and all.

Probably not, since Leeky is not, to my knowledge, green.

[Peelee]

Bozzok's a possibility, though is there any possibility it could also be one Leeky Windstaff, standing on a crate? Since gnomes and all.
OHMYGOD i need it to be

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Me too.

And here I was just wondering, geez, why wouldn't a rogue max out UMD? For shame.

Help a guy out?

[Gusion]

New comic is up.

... oh no....

Edit: wait wait wait.

Why do the doors have windows for medium sized creatures in a town designed for small creatures? That makes zero sense.

[Vinsfeld]

Why do the doors have windows for medium sized creatures in a town designed for small creatures? That makes zero sense.

Good one. Maybe he made the window himself?

[Lettuce]

Heh, after reading the end of this comic, my very first thought was "I bet the forums are going crazy". I am not disappointed.

But you're ALL wrong. It's clearly neither Thog nor Bozzak, but a shapeshifted Sabine! :smalltongue:


....thog's twin brother is the boss of Majora's Mask's Snow Temple?

You have no idea how happy I am that I am not the only one who had that reaction.

[Porthos]

Why do the doors have windows for medium sized creatures in a town designed for small creatures? That makes zero sense.

Why do you think it was boarded up and abandoned? No one in town wanted it, obviously. :smallamused:

[Randomguy]

:elan: Dun Dun DUNNNNNN!!!!

I think the bag they went with is more of a taupe, really.



Probably not, since Leeky is not, to my knowledge, green.

Leeky's a druid, he's got "Thousand Faces": Disguise self at will. He can look like whatever humanoid he wants.

I don't think it's him, though. But in theory it could be!

[Brendanicus]

Oh boy, Bozzok is back!

The real question is... is he alone? The only possible explanation as to why he would personally tail Hayley is because he's the Thieves' Guild's highest-level member, so only he would have a shot at killing Hayley. Provided, of course, he had proper backup.

I'm betting a raised Crystal and probably Sabine (Qarr too?). Maybe even Hank the Halfling or even Thog if things get fun.

Actually, that would be a great Giant-esque plot twist. Get everybody to guess between Bozzok OR Thog, then bring back BOTH.

[Gnome Alone]

OHMYGOD i need it to be


Help a guy out?

Haley is straight; uses wands
Bandanna is gay; does not
We could say it's about UMD...
But we'd be missing a lot

[Solara]

I always roll my eyes whenever someone posts that old cliche of 'holy crap [some funny thing] make me laugh so hard I spewed [some beverage] all over [myself/my computer/ my monitor/my keyboard].

But just this one time I'll join them: holy crap, panel 6 made me laugh so hard I both choked on and spit out my tea. Then I had to go back and read it a couple of times to make sure I wasn't imagining the joke, but there's no way that wasn't intentional. :P

[Catticus]

Panel 2 is simply awesome. Easily a favorite. Great as a print, t-shirt, splash screen, phone case, ornament, poster, tattoo, almost anything. It just makes you (me) smile.

I have no idea who's behind the door.

[NerdyKris]

Alright, two things:
2: Elan, how did you know what spell was in that wand from a glance? It could have been any Cure X Wounds spell, judging from Haley's comment.

Because it saves a panel of him asking "What wand is it" and Haley saying "It's a cure moderate wounds wand".

[Doug Lampert]

Alright, two things:

1: Haley, wands do not use a command word; they use the spell trigger activation method. That ignorance likely explains your poor use of them.

2: Elan, how did you know what spell was in that wand from a glance? It could have been any Cure X Wounds spell, judging from Haley's comment.

From the SRD:

Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken.

[Anarion]

Haley star eyes are the best.

[Davian]

I'm not going to bother speculating, but I'll just drop two pieces of info that haven't been brought up yet.

1. As has already been established, Bozzok has a line of communication to the Vector Legion.

2. There's another orc in the strip that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, namely "shoulder pad guy", as he's been called.

[Ghost Nappa]

The being behind the door is the Darkness in the Monster.

[ORione]

I'm not going to bother speculating, but I'll just drop two pieces of info that haven't been brought up yet.

1. As has already been established, Bozzok has a line of communication to the Vector Legion.

2. There's another orc in the strip that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, namely "shoulder pad guy", as he's been called.

:smallconfused:

Unless he's been disguised every time we've seen him, Shoulder Pad Guy isn't an orc.

[Angelalex242]

Thog SMASH Puny bard and rogue!

[Davian]

:smallconfused:

Unless he's been disguised every time we've seen him, Shoulder Pad Guy isn't an orc.

*peek*

Huh. See, this is what happens when you go from memory in a comic that's almost 1000 pages long now.

Whatever. Somebody got a bit of amusement out of my mistake, so it's a net gain. I'm not too proud for that.

[137beth]

WANDering eyes are good for concentrating on UMD. :smallsmile:

[Jay R]

Can we tell what they do from the colours and shapes of the top bit? The Cure Moderate Wounds is a itsy-bitsy cross which makes sense. The others?

More than that - it's a blue cross. Blue Cross is a network of health insurance companies. I thought it was the most subtle joke in the strip.

[Darth Paul]

Also, am I the only one who read a bit of innuendo in the sixth panel of today's strip? :smallredface: :smallwink:

You are not. Actually, I think it was more than a bit. :smallwink::smallamused::smallamused:

Am I the only one who saw a smoking Haley holding a wand and was reminded of the illustration on Page 85 in the 3.5e Players' Handbook, "Lidda finds that using a magic device can be risky"? I'm not sure if that was an intentional homage to the female rogue on the page with the Use Magical Device skill description or not, but I've been seeing it for years and years, so the mental association was immediate.

And I'm glad to see (panel 3) that Haley's greedy streak has not deserted her entirely. She just wouldn't be Haley without that.

[Sakgeres]

Also, am I the only one who read a bit of innuendo in the sixth panel of today's strip? :smallredface: :smallwink:

The star wands looks like *ouch*.. and she's got 4 of them

[Peelee]

More than that - it's a blue cross. Blue Cross is a network of health insurance companies. I thought it was the most subtle joke in the strip.

...as often as I deal with them, you'd think I'd recognize that right off the bat. I feel shamed. Great catch, sir.

[Darth Paul]

Actually, the more I read Panel 6, the more innuendo I find.

:haley: "...a good wand for that magical trick you just can't duplicate..."

Oh dear. Oh my.
Elan, you need to step up your game.

[NerdyKris]

*peek*

Huh. See, this is what happens when you go from memory in a comic that's almost 1000 pages long now.

Whatever. Somebody got a bit of amusement out of my mistake, so it's a net gain. I'm not too proud for that.

It's doubtful that he knows Tarquin either. Or at least as anything other than a general in Tyrinaria's army that he did business with once. Geoff seems to have been wise to the scheme, but he kept it under wraps, Bozzok knowing and alerting the Vector Legion to this knowledge would make him a target, not an ally. Geoff was most likely only alerting local guards to the escape, not Tarquin himself.

[Lexible]

I love the double pun of the title! (Panel 2, Panel 11) I also love Bandana's gag. I love that my reaction to the final panel was . . . o 0 O (Dunn dunn DUNN!) I love that Therkla's coming back! [Aside: Shut up! She is so! LALALALALAI'MNOTLISTENINGTOYOU!]

Except that "We need to be prepared for whatever trouble rears its ugly head," kinda advertises Bozzon... Bimbozz... whatever the Dickens his name is.

[Spriteless]

Stunning revelation there. Bandana is a rogue. She's gonna give all sorts of characterization just in a matter of fact way while bouncing dialogue off another character naturally. If it were possible to do that unsubtly, maybe it could be a running gag.

[YossarianLives]

Ahhhhh s*********t. WHY WON'T HE STAY DEAD!?
If lemon pudding won't kill him, nothing will...

[b_jonas]

I think the snooper is Belkar. He's followed the tracks of Haley to find out what he's doing. But obviously Belkar is too short to snoop through such a window, so he needs a footstool. Thus, Thog is clearly there lifting Belkar.

[Breccia]

Clearly the most logical explanation is that it is Sabine, shapechanged to look like Bozzok, but didn't get the hair right.

[Sime]

The wands innuendo reminds me a pun from Buffy the vampire slayer which involved Willow and Tarah :) Can't remember the exact phrase but it was similar to this strip one.

[Lurkmoar]

Oh great, now I'm on pins and needles for the next update.

Nice comic of course. :smallsmile:

[MightionNY]

Panel five is the funniest thing I've seen in days. :D

[Chantelune]

Seriously, guys, it can't be Thog for one simple reason : They're on their way to brunch !

If it was Thog, the reveal would have happened there, with Thog on yet another food rampage to keep his people rampaging in check while waiting for talky-man. :smallsigh:

[HeeJay]

Redcloak's niece sighted!

[HeeJay]

What if...
It's actually one of the orcs from the Island?
Here to punish the follower of the valse god in the name of Giggles!

death to valse god! giggles only allows dances in 4/4 measure!

(Every now and then you get a typo that actually enhances the message :smallsmile:)

[Rack]

I was so excited when I thought it was Thog. Now I'm sad.

[Tiri]

Am I the only one who saw a smoking Haley holding a wand and was reminded of the illustration on Page 85 in the 3.5e Players' Handbook, "Lidda finds that using a magic device can be risky"?

No. I was too.

[Fralex]

Haley is straight; uses wands
Bandanna is gay; does not
We could say it's about UMD...
But we'd be missing a lot

Haley is bisexual!

[ManuelSacha]

DUN DUN DUUUUUN!

But no, seriously, is that Bozzok or something?

[Brumagris]

Very nice strip! sweet comment from Elan too, when receiving his present :) gives him a bit of his childish innocence back, after such hard time for him with father and brother



Regarding to the eyes, biggest chance goes for Bozzok, but... how many times the easiest answer is not at all the right one? What if this time ti is actually Bozzok, and The Giant is throwing a double bluff making us think "it cannot be Bozzok because that would be the easy answer..." or maybe a triple bluff based on... ok, ok I stop it

Honestly I don´t think it would be Leeky, since his role as antagonist is pretty much finished along with the Linear Guild. Didn´t he have anyway a "farewell" pannel with the half-elf anyway, commenting something about "evil minion"?

What if the eyes are not threatening but studying Haley and Elan? that would give a different array of options, either for advancing with Durkon or as a support against Xykon

Another option would be if this incoming character is actually holding something against Bandana rather than The Order of The Stick. I bet that Julio has left numerous enemies himself, willing to take payback on his ship or crew

[LeSwordfish]

While Rich does occasionally bait and switch, he doesn't do it randomly or pointlessly. "Lol it was thog" isn't his style.

[Brumagris]

I don´t think it is gonna be Thog neither, since stalking is not his style... yet I see it very plausible for a new character to appear at this very point

[Dire Llama]

Seriously, guys, it can't be Thog for one simple reason : They're on their way to brunch !

Finally someone remarking on my favourite part of this strip.
"Brunch" hehe.

[maxon]

More than that - it's a blue cross. Blue Cross is a network of health insurance companies. I thought it was the most subtle joke in the strip.
Over here it's a veterinary charity.

[Burner28]

My favourite part of the strip is "What is so tragic is that this constitutes a marked improvement in technique."

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Am I the only one who saw a smoking Haley holding a wand and was reminded of the illustration on Page 85 in the 3.5e Players' Handbook, "Lidda finds that using a magic device can be risky"? I'm not sure if that was an intentional homage to the female rogue on the page with the Use Magical Device skill description or not, but I've been seeing it for years and years, so the mental association was immediate.

That was one of the first things I thought of. I'm glad someone else is seeing this too.

[Killer Angel]

Reading the title, I was expecting something ala "prying eyes".
But this is better! :smallsmile:

[Kareasint]

More than that - it's a blue cross. Blue Cross is a network of health insurance companies. I thought it was the most subtle joke in the strip.

It was not too subtle. It would have been funnier if a darker blue star had been superimposed on a lighter blue shield.

The Orc in the last panel may not be Bozzok. While revenge is a pretty good motivation for going after Haley, it also would mean that Bozzok is leaving his guild so soon after seeing it nearly destroyed. I do not think that he would want to leave his guild in the hands of someone else while he is running around the globe to chase someone. I would guess that we are looking at someone related to Bozzok who is part of a Thieves Guild in this town.

Haley has probably picked up some wands to help her deal with her vulnerabilities. The second panel was awesome.

[Tass]

More than that - it's a blue cross. Blue Cross is a network of health insurance companies. I thought it was the most subtle joke in the strip.

Not really. If it had been red, it would have been a reference to Red Cross, which is a charity organization giving medical aid in disasters. If it had been green, it would have been a reference to Pharmacies in general, which in many countries often carry a green cross like that.

Basically, the stubby square cross is generally associated with medical aid, and was the obvious choice of shape for a cure wand. It had to have some color or another.

[Nilan8888]

At first, because we just saw Elan smooch Haley and the face looked angry, I thought it was Therkla. Which I was instantly against because I considered it a very, very bad idea since her story ended so well.

Thog never crossed my mind. And I really don't see how it could be. As someone mentioned on the first page, sneaking around is not Thog's style, and Thog doesn't think of the OOTS as a whole. Thog actually LIKES Elan. And he's got no reason to be mad at Haley. In fact, right now the only member of the Order he probably doesn't like is Roy, considering how their last battle ended.

Thog is incidentally evil and murderous. But it usually doesn't come about because he's full of hate, like Nale was.

Like Buzzock is. That definitely makes the most sense and it's an existing loose end. So yeah, glad someone thought of it, because I'm totally behind that idea.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[DigoDragon]

"WANDS!" Now there's an instant tshirt idea.

[Ron Miel]

Why do the doors have windows for medium sized creatures in a town designed for small creatures? That makes zero sense.

The town is designed to cater for travelers. Most of the travelers are medium-sized. Making the shops gnome-sized would be a poor business plan.

[Ramien]

The town is designed to cater for travelers. Most of the travelers are medium-sized. Making the shops gnome-sized would be a poor business plan.

Still, most of the other shops are designed for both larger and smaller guests - especially this close to Dwarven lands, where the medium sized dwarves are still rather on the short side. Look at the shop Haley is exiting, for example - it's got a handle a little lower than normal on a medium door, and a very large window, suitable for both small and medium folks to look out of. On the other hand, the door that (presumably) Bozzok is hiding behind has only the slot at medium height. Yes, it is currently abandoned, but I would assume that it's not original gnome build and probably was built by someone other than one of the gnomish residents.

[sam79]

One of my favourite strips in the new arc so far; strong writing, with nice character moments and humour; lovely art, as usual, and a great final panel. My first thought was "THOG! but...how?" My second thought was "oh, that thieves' guild guy. Much more likely."

[Socksy]

DUN DUN DUUUUUN!

But no, seriously, is that Bozzok or something?

The only thing I'm certain of is it's not Thog.
Bozzok sounds logical.

[FolcoTook]

No, I'm thinking another returning villain, personally (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). Maybe I'm wrong though.

:thog: Thog want it to be Thog, but thinky man probably right. Thog sad.

[AbyssStalker]

I'm sorry if this has been previously mentioned (want to get this in quickly). I think it is right-eye's daughter that he smuggled away before his family was killed.

... And they did mention Xykon by name...

[Keltest]

I'm sorry if this has been previously mentioned (want to get this in quickly). I think it is right-eye's daughter that he smuggled away before his family was killed.

... And they did mention Xykon by name...

That's... Not completely impossible. Does someone with full color visibility want to compare the green skin against a goblin's skin? Not that I necessarily think that's a perfect test, but it should at least be tried.

[canpinter]

so did anyone else look at panel 2 and think "wow wands would make really cool makeshift wolverine claws"

[Gift Jeraff]

Given the recent redesigns, I wouldn't use lack of visible hair, eye placement, or exact skin shade to as evidence one way or the other. I'm guessing Bozzok, though.

[AbyssStalker]

That's... Not completely impossible. Does someone with full color visibility want to compare the green skin against a goblin's skin? Not that I necessarily think that's a perfect test, but it should at least be tried.

Well the color of his daughter's skin (or the rest of Right Eye's family, they may have inherited a different tint from the mother if that's possible) wasn't shown in color, so I am not sure. It appears paler than goblin tint though.

[Neoriceisgood]

Oh huh, so there'll be another full arc with antagonist in this town? Interesting.

[Darth Paul]

Am I the only one who saw a smoking Haley holding a wand and was reminded of the illustration on Page 85 in the 3.5e Players' Handbook, "Lidda finds that using a magic device can be risky"?.


No. I was too.


That was one of the first things I thought of. I'm glad someone else is seeing this too.

That settles it. Three people saw it, the Giant did it on purpose.


Haley is bisexual!

Let's not start all that up again.

[Ivrytwr]

Oh, suspense! Though I doubt Thog is peering through the door. More likely it is Bozzok.
I do wonder what is up with Thog?

Nice comic: starry-eyed Haley! And lesson with improvements!

Thanks Giant.

[Magesmiley]

It could also be a goblin... say, someone's goblin niece? :smallbiggrin:

This is what I'd put my money on.

[Stella]

Haley is not a match for (the near epic-level) Bozzok, as we saw in 609 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html). All he needs is a bag of tricks and to catch her alone and unprepared.
I dunno, Haley did pretty good at stalling him while also killing all his flankers. Sure it was a losing fight even so, but she handled it well.


I find myself wondering who gets the fourth spot at brunch. I know of a halfling who just turned down a lunch date and is probably hungry, but Belkar isn't a favorite of either Haley or Elan. Haley might be more willing to put up with him than she is to see a free brunch pass go unused, however. Greed has its disadvantages.

[brian 333]

***edited***
2: Elan, how did you know what spell was in that wand from a glance? It could have been any Cure X Wounds spell, judging from Haley's comment.

Elan has Bardic Knowledge, which he uses from time to time in the comic. A cure wand is not especially difficult to identify, especially as most makers of such wands want them to be easy to identify. With a DC of 10 for the wand being a common item known by a substantial number of people, it is not unreasonable that Elan instantly recognized the item. He probably already knows the command word too.

My vote is Bozzak behind the door. If he is still a part of the Greysky Guild, he probably has backup. I doubt he wasted a Raise on Crystal, though, and I'm fairly certain Haley ganked her when she took Crystal's knife.

On the other hand, I think Hank may be a bit tired of Bozzak's personal revenge on Haley which almost destroyed the guild. If Bozzak was still in command of the guild when he left, he may not be by now. Hank impressed me as one shrewd halfling.

[Mike Havran]

I think the Giant will twist the expectations again and that spy is neither Thog nor Bozzok.

[Gift Jeraff]

I remember people speculating that Andi's jury-rigging was actually sabotage in order to delay the Order because she didn't seem enthused about Haley cutting down the time and price needed for the repairs.

It wouldn't surprise me if a member of the crew has connections to a major thieves' guild...

[theNater]

I find myself wondering who gets the fourth spot at brunch. I know of a halfling who just turned down a lunch date and is probably hungry, but Belkar isn't a favorite of either Haley or Elan. Haley might be more willing to put up with him than she is to see a free brunch pass go unused, however. Greed has its disadvantages.
Maybe they'll invite whoever that is behind the door. Then they can discuss whatever's causing the angry eyes civilly, over a pleasant meal.

[AlignmentDebate]

Maybe they'll invite whoever that is behind the door. Then they can discuss whatever's causing the angry eyes civilly, over a pleasant meal.
I don't think it's Tarquin, sorry.
Of course, now that I've said that, it's obviously him.

[Tragak]

The wands innuendo reminds me a pun from Buffy the vampire slayer which involved Willow and Tarah :) Can't remember the exact phrase but it was similar to this strip one. 1) Tara, no "h" :smallbiggrin:
Tara :smallfrown:
2) I'm pretty sure that you're thinking of Rona (straight demon-hunter-in-training) and Kennedy (gay demon-hunter-in-training) discussing stakes.
Rona and Kennedy :smallfurious:

[Mr_Scruffy_Kilz]

No, with the fall of Nale and Zz'dtri, the IFCC needed some fresh meat (or is it rancid meat in their case), so they resurrected Therkla... who would have experience working with Qarr, wants to be with Elan, and would have reason to want Haley dead...

Sure, its just a random theory, and an excuse to add another justifiable option over Bozzok, Goht, and Thog (Hoping it is Thog, who is just angry he got left behind, but it is fun to toss out possibilities)

[FlawedParadigm]

Clearly, this is Fyron's half-orc son (whose half-orc-ness was never previously mentioned), even though he hasn't been seen or heard of for hundreds of strips. He's become an Assassin and has mistaken Haley for Roy's love interest and thus wants to shank her to get to Roy for his father's failure to protect Fyron from an Epic Lich while he was third level or something.

[LuPuWei]

:thog: -hooraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

(Ok, yes, maybe it isn't Thog [I say this, having read other people's comments] but in case it is- hooraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!! once more!)

[theNater]

I don't think it's Tarquin, sorry.
I seem to have missed the strip in which it is made clear Tarquin is the only person aside from the Order who eats. Which one was that, again?

[Castamir]

Uhm... Haley, you don't put that much money into wands if your UMD skill is that low.

[Snails]

Uhm... Haley, you don't put that much money into wands if your UMD skill is that low.

Well, it works better as a narrative and it allows for some fun jokes, if she actually needs to practice before getting good. We want a training montage, even if it only one panel long.

As a matter of rules, of course, Haley could simply say "I have these 15 ranks in UMD, and with my Cha score, I do not even fail on a '1'"

[Keltest]

Uhm... Haley, you don't put that much money into wands if your UMD skill is that low.

The ability to use a device does not necessarily translate to using a device well. Pointing a wand of fireballs at the ceiling, for example.

[Gnome Alone]

I'm gonna assume that they levelled up (except Vaarsuvius) and that Hayley's one-panel training montage was how putting ranks in UMD was represented.

[MtlGuy]

My first thought was Thog, but it could also be the leader of the thieves guild out for revenge on Haley.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm gonna assume that they levelled up (except Vaarsuvius) and that Hayley's one-panel training montage was how putting ranks in UMD was represented.
Don't count her out, she had a near-solo (do dominated creatures count for purposes of XP apportionment? I know familiars don't.) adventure rescuing Princess Gootrude the Evil Sauce Dragon, remember?

Huh. Apparently evasion doesn't work against UMD mishaps. Shame on me for not remembering that immediately.

[runeghost]

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out and I missed it, but in support of it being Bozzok, check out strip #942 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). The last thing Geoff did before getting busted by Ian was tell Bozzok, who was interested in Haley's location, that she was headed to the North Pole on an airship. I think that makes his presence here pretty likely.

He would have needed to spring for some sort of high-end transportation - fast airship or teleport or the like. But its more or less exactly where we should expect him to be.

[Gnome Alone]

@zimmerwald: I figured that a) there's no guarantee that the Ranch Dressing Module was level-appropriate; she could've just been dissolving a bunch of CR4 Seasoned Mayonnaise Golems or something before Disintegrating the Evil Sauce Dragon, and b) gotta keep V from getting those narrative-flushing 9th level spells somehow.

[GM_3826]

I actually didn't really like Thog when I was first reading the comic, and came to dislike him when he came out of the Gladiator Pit, so finding out it's probably not Thog (As there has been proper foreshadowing) is a relief.
Of course, given how paranoid you guys seem to be, maybe it is Thog.

[littlebum2002]

@zimmerwald: I figured that a) there's no guarantee that the Ranch Dressing Module was level-appropriate; she could've just been dissolving a bunch of CR4 Seasoned Mayonnaise Golems or something before Disintegrating the Evil Sauce Dragon, and b) gotta keep V from getting those narrative-flushing 9th level spells somehow.

V only has spells Rich thinks V should have. V has 7th level spells but doesn't have Limited Wish. SO getting 9th level spells doesn't mean any narrative breaking spells, Rich can just make them too hard to research.

[Legato Endless]

Holy crap, Haley in that second panel might be the creepiest thing in this webcomic ever.

[Tvtyrant]

Given the recent redesigns, I wouldn't use lack of visible hair, eye placement, or exact skin shade to as evidence one way or the other. I'm guessing Bozzok, though.

The what now? When did they undergo a redesign?

[orrion]

Ok, so.. that 2nd panel with Haley is going on a T-shirt right? 'Cause hilarious.

[Gnome Alone]

The what now? When did they undergo a redesign?

The beginning of the sixth book, from #947 on, has shown a marked increase in character detail, most notably the stick figure hands being more fleshed out.

[Darth Paul]

As a matter of rules, of course, Haley could simply say "I have these 15 ranks in UMD, and with my Cha score, I do not even fail on a '1'"

Not by house rules with our group. "1" always fails, and moreover, counts as a fumble, or "spectacular failure". (So, for instance, the 15th-lvl fighter with +5 sword, Weapon Specialization, and 20 Strength still has a 5% chance to injure himself or one of his party in the thick of battle with a careless swing.)

It looks to me like Haley rolled a 1. :smallbiggrin:

[Keltest]

Not by house rules with our group. "1" always fails, and moreover, counts as a fumble, or "spectacular failure". (So, for instance, the 15th-lvl fighter with +5 sword, Weapon Specialization, and 20 Strength still has a 5% chance to injure himself or one of his party in the thick of battle with a careless swing.)

It looks to me like Haley rolled a 1. :smallbiggrin:

That's how we do things here as well. And the spectacular failures have on occasion been pretty spectacular.

[Darth Paul]

That's how we do things here as well. And the spectacular failures have on occasion been pretty spectacular.

Does your wizard bounce Chain Lightning off the party's fighter to keep the chain going if no enemies are handy? Ours does. (I know, I was the fighter.)

[Gnome Alone]

Does your wizard bounce Chain Lightning off the party's fighter to keep the chain going if no enemies are handy? Ours does. (I know, I was the fighter.)

Wizard: "It's not my fault your armor is so good at conducting electricity!"

Fighter's charred, crackling corpse: "..."

[AmewTheFox]

That panel with Haley failing to use the wand successfully was great. V's commentary really sold it to me.

It's like, if you edit out Haley it would be a fantastic template.

[ti'esar]

adventure rescuing Princess Gootrude the Evil Sauce Dragon, remember?

...The "from" you omitted makes that adventure sound rather more interesting.

[Darth Paul]

Wizard: "It's not my fault your armor is so good at conducting electricity!"

Fighter's charred, crackling corpse: "..."

That's pretty close to how it went. :smallmad: Luckily I had just barely more hit points left at that point than the spell's damage dice.

[Seeker]

I feel like the last 30 comics or so has been completely about 'restocking' and getting new items, with somewhat contrived explanations behind them. The dagger, the clasp, new outfits, wands, bauble, etc. Just feels like it's going to lead up to a bunch of mini Deus Ex Machinas..

Nice bombshell dropped in the last panel, though. Thog, I'm guessing?

[Keltest]

Does your wizard bounce Chain Lightning off the party's fighter to keep the chain going if no enemies are handy? Ours does. (I know, I was the fighter.)

Close. But our fighter has smashed the petrified remains of the party's paladin to get at his sword. I should know, I was the paladin.

[orrion]

Close. But our fighter has smashed the petrified remains of the party's paladin to get at his sword. I should know, I was the paladin.

Serves you right, you goody two-shoes.

[Jasdoif]

I feel like the last 30 comics or so has been completely about 'restocking' and getting new items, with somewhat contrived explanations behind them. The dagger, the clasp, new outfits, wands, bauble, etc. Just feels like it's going to lead up to a bunch of mini Deus Ex Machinas..Deus Ex Machinas? Really? You think the last 30 comics have been a string of red herrings so large, we should get used to eating sushi for the next few months? :smalltongue:

[Rogar Demonblud]

This conversation is all the more intriguing because of the Sith/AssassinGuy avatars.

[Peelee]

I feel like the last 30 comics or so has been completely about 'restocking' and getting new items, with somewhat contrived explanations behind them. The dagger, the clasp, new outfits, wands, bauble, etc. Just feels like it's going to lead up to a bunch of mini Deus Ex Machinas..
I do not believe that means what you think it means.

Deus Ex Machinas? Really? You think the last 30 comics have been a string of red herrings so large, we should get used to eating sushi for the next few months? :smalltongue:
I'm all up for sushi, man.

[theNater]

I feel like the last 30 comics or so has been completely about 'restocking' and getting new items, with somewhat contrived explanations behind them. The dagger, the clasp, new outfits, wands, bauble, etc. Just feels like it's going to lead up to a bunch of mini Deus Ex Machinas..
Deus Ex Machinas come out of nowhere, by definition. Anything that gets set up, in any way, is not a Deus Ex Machina. I suspect you are thinking of Chekhov's Guns, in which case you are probably right.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I feel like the last 30 comics or so has been completely about 'restocking' and getting new items, with somewhat contrived explanations behind them. The dagger, the clasp, new outfits, wands, bauble, etc. Just feels like it's going to lead up to a bunch of mini Deus Ex Machinas..

Nice bombshell dropped in the last panel, though. Thog, I'm guessing?

I'm not really seeing contrived anywhere here. Not to mention, there has been a lot more to the last 30 comics than that, and even those simple "restocking" comics have had something extra to them.

Also, I'm with Peelee on sushi.

DEM! *takes shot*

[Keltest]

Serves you right, you goody two-shoes.

The best part was that I got resurrected (sans my sword arm) specifically to be ritually sacrificed.

That was a fun session.

[Darth Paul]

This conversation is all the more intriguing because of the Sith/AssassinGuy avatars.

Now that you mention it, for some reason, my favorite old Paladin miniature looks more like Keltest's avatar, holding a greatsword.

[Seeker]

Deus Ex Machinas come out of nowhere, by definition. Anything that gets set up, in any way, is not a Deus Ex Machina. I suspect you are thinking of Chekhov's Guns, in which case you are probably right.

That's the word I was looking for, my TV tropes game is not up to par.

[Death Knight of]

By process of elimination, it can't be Therkla because she refused to be raised. Thog was buried under the arena rubble. If he died, I have no idea why Tarquin would bother raising him especially without Malack. If he lived, Tarquin would send him packing either to the guillotine or back to the gladiatorial arena. The orcs on the island didn't really have way off said island. Bozzok is the only one who could physically make the trip.

[allenw]

Another option would be if this incoming character is actually holding something against Bandana rather than The Order of The Stick.

Right Eye's daughter is Bandana's ex! It all makes sense now!

And I'd think that Bandana would be, if anything, *more* likely than Haley to appreciate a Magic Wand (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magic-Wand-Personal-Massager-HV-260/27126900)*, though I realize some people find them to be overpowered.

*Yes, the above link (to walmart.com) is entirely SFW, though a similar link to amazon.com would have been less so.

[WolvesbaneIII]

What if the door with the peering eyes is made with a green tinted glass panel?

The guy peering at the gang is a white human and the green color is merely the tinted glass.

[theNater]

By process of elimination, it can't be Therkla because she refused to be raised. Thog was buried under the arena rubble. If he died, I have no idea why Tarquin would bother raising him especially without Malack. If he lived, Tarquin would send him packing either to the guillotine or back to the gladiatorial arena. The orcs on the island didn't really have way off said island. Bozzok is the only one who could physically make the trip.
While I agree that Bozzok is most likely, I don't think we can definitively rule the others out. Heck, I can come up with a plausible(ish) way for each of them to arrive.

Therkla: Told Elan he shouldn't resurrect her. She might respond to a call from someone else, out of curiosity or boredom(Neutral afterlives have a reputation for being a bit dull). This goes doubly if the deity involved has a history of helping star-crossed lovers.

Thog: May have been not only alive, but still conscious under that rubble. That would be one heck of a surprise for whatever unlucky guard dug him out, and may result in his freedom. Getting to Tinkertown is harder, but it could be the standard rendezvous point for Thog when he can't find Nale.

Orcs: The orcs now have significant divine support in the form of Giggles. His animosity towards Banjo would give him reason to arrange for a small group of his worshippers to hunt down Elan; clerical magic can give them direction and transport.

[Gnome Alone]

What if the door with the peering eyes is made with a green tinted glass panel?

The guy peering at the gang is a white human and the green color is merely the tinted glass.

I'm just gonna Occam's Razor this up a bit: if Bozzok is the one who it makes the most sense for it to be, having the biggest reason and the easiest opportunity to be trailing Haley specifically, and is green without the need for contrivances with glass, then it's probably Bozzok.

I will admit that your theory is clever, though. And makes much more sense than proclaiming it to be obviously Thog.

[rbetieh]

I'm just gonna Occam's Razor this up a bit: if Bozzok is the one who it makes the most sense for it to be, having the biggest reason and the easiest opportunity to be trailing Haley specifically, and is green without the need for contrivances with glass, then it's probably Bozzok.

I will admit that your theory is clever, though. And makes much more sense than proclaiming it to be obviously Thog.

While all of this is a reasonable and tidy explanation, I choose to believe for my own personal amusement that the person is actually Orc Chieftan, commanded by Giggles to smite Banjo and all of his works.

[ORione]

I feel like the last 30 comics or so has been completely about 'restocking' and getting new items, with somewhat contrived explanations behind them. The dagger, the clasp, new outfits, wands, bauble, etc.

You must've hated the beginning of No Cure for the Paladin Blues.


On a different note, the second panel would make a good subject for Cafepress merchandise.

[ti'esar]

By process of elimination, it can't be Therkla because she refused to be raised. Thog was buried under the arena rubble. If he died, I have no idea why Tarquin would bother raising him especially without Malack. If he lived, Tarquin would send him packing either to the guillotine or back to the gladiatorial arena. The orcs on the island didn't really have way off said island. Bozzok is the only one who could physically make the trip.

There are other orcs (and half-orcs) in this world besides the ones we've met, you know.

Yes, it might seem a bit late in the game to be introducing whole new players, but there's still two books to go. And I bet people were saying the same thing right before Hel showed up.

[GAAD]

While all of this is a reasonable and tidy explanation, I choose to believe for my own personal amusement that the person is actually Orc Chieftan, commanded by Giggles to smite Banjo and all of his works.

no. goht banished from giggles religion. worship majora now.

[Seeker]

You must've hated the beginning of No Cure for the Paladin Blues.


On a different note, the second panel would make a good subject for Cafepress merchandise.

No, I very much enjoyed the side-quest portion of NCftPB. There was less of it, and I didn't look at all of that thinking "Ah, this will definitely come up later..." It was a of a higher quality than these past few strips, IMO, but I feel the same way about the comic as a whole ever since the last arc.

[WolvesbaneIII]

I'm just gonna Occam's Razor this up a bit: if Bozzok is the one who it makes the most sense for it to be, having the biggest reason and the easiest opportunity to be trailing Haley specifically, and is green without the need for contrivances with glass, then it's probably Bozzok.

I will admit that your theory is clever, though. And makes much more sense than proclaiming it to be obviously Thog.

I'm gonna occams razor this a bit, lol. Theres some greenness to the panel 2nd to last without a face behind it yet.

Unless the guy is standing right in front of it waiting just for haily to appear every other second.

Perhaps this is just my own personal style, but I would open the door peep slit, then walk up to it. The green could easily just be tinted glass to -disguise- the visage of the one behind it.

So its obviously the mace cleric who worked for bozzok.

a high level cleric who has the ability to ressurect someone, like durkon, who works for bozzok, and therefore bozzok can still be a nuisance.

Did I mention I'm kidding? I don't want anyone thinking I'm fo-sho.

[ORione]

No, I very much enjoyed the side-quest portion of NCftPB. There was less of it, and I didn't look at all of that thinking "Ah, this will definitely come up later..."

In NCftPB they were in town from 122 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0122.html) to 142 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0142.html). 20 strips. So far, they have been in Tinkertown from 964 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0964.html) to 970. 6 strips. It just feels longer because you have to wait for updates instead of binge reading.

[Seeker]

In NCftPB they were in town from 122 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0122.html) to 142 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0142.html). 20 strips. So far, they have been in Tinkertown from 964 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0964.html) to 970. 6 strips. It just feels longer because you have to wait for updates instead of binge reading.

I mean less 'each party member buys a special Chekovs Gun ' stuff. I mean, look what happened in NCftPB while in town. Elan tries to be a wizard. Belkar multiclasses in Barbarian. Roy gets the Bag of Tricks, which plays a minor role, and Belkar gets the Ring of Jumping, which comes up a few times. Neither of these were just "HEY! I bought -blank-," it was touched on, joked about, and moved on. Every party member got their 'bauble' in one comic, and only two really ended up as somewhat important.


I only just recently caught up on the comic after dropping off around #600 ages ago. So I can safely say that it's a perceived decline in quality that I'm sensing, not anything to do with the time between updates.

[ti'esar]

Of all the claims I've heard about why the comic is "going downhill", it possibly being narratively tighter is certainly one of the stranger ones. I'm not at all in favor of having absolutely everything that comes up in a story be relevant to the plot, but Chekhov's Gun is not a bad thing.

[ManicOppressive]

Two things: First off, no points in UMD means BAD ROGUE, NO BISCUIT.

Second, Elan's clueless look in panel 6 is great. Unless that wasn't a sex joke and I'm just reading too much into it.

[Gnome Alone]

It's not so much "Chekhov's Gun" here as showing the party preparing, and setting up things that will help them later.

"But Gnome Alone, you clever, handsome devil," you say, "isn't that what a Chekhov's Gun is?"

No, my friends with excellent taste, Chekhov's Gun refers to the preference for "conversation of detail." Chekhov said something like, "If there's a gun in the first act it better go off by the third." To me, it's important to note that the example he chose is a gun - it's a dramatic item that calls attention to itself. It is significant. Chekhov didn't say, "If a guy has a coat on his coatrack, by gum, he'd better end up wearing it!" Some things really are just flavorful little bits of window dressing. Blackwing's ioun stone is a good example. It's more like a bookkeeping thing than anything else.

The only thing we've seen here so far that might qualify as a Chekhov's Gun is the Belkster's cloak clasp, because it sets up interesting narrative possibilities of it signifying that he's no longer Evil, or (to my mind, more likely) him activating it to be able to do something heroic, in spite of the pain.

The rest of it, and these scenes in town so far, it's more of a calm before the storm, batton down all the hatches kinda deal.

[Fralex]

Let's not start all that up again.
Oh, is that one of those things a bunch of people are always arguing about? Sorry, I don't come here very often!

[super dark33]

Is it possible that its a Giggles worshipping island orc?:smalltongue:

[Gnome Alone]

Oh, is that one of those things a bunch of people are always arguing about? Sorry, I don't come here very often!

I only intermittently come to the OOTS forum meself; I usually just give flippant, unhelpful answers in the D&D 3.5 one, so maybe, but if so, it's news to me. Though it does seem like the kind of thing that could start up a bunch of unpleasant screeching.

Anyway, I remembered the "Hayley's latent bisexuality" bit, but that didn't fit into the meter when I realized I had to make my response about the sexytimes innuendo in panel 6 into a poem.

[Red XIV]

Wow, Bozzok is actually stupid enough to leave his home territory to chase down a high-level adventuring party even after the last time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html) went so badly for him that he was lucky to get out of it alive (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0619.html) and now he's also aware that Haley and her allies are powerful enough to overcome Tarquin's army (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html). Even if he did get somebody to raise Crystal, one would think that if he has any other high-level members to bring to a fight he would've brought them last time. Not really seeing how he expects to win this.

I am wondering, though, if Hank is regretting that he talked Haley out of killing Bozzok (and thus letting him take over the Guild) last time. Or maybe he thinks that if Bozzok gets killed in a distant land instead of in the middle of Greysky City, he'll have time to consolidate his own control of the city before any rival groups realize they need to move in.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I mean less 'each party member buys a special Chekovs Gun ' stuff. I mean, look what happened in NCftPB while in town. Elan tries to be a wizard. Belkar multiclasses in Barbarian. Roy gets the Bag of Tricks, which plays a minor role, and Belkar gets the Ring of Jumping, which comes up a few times. Neither of these were just "HEY! I bought -blank-," it was touched on, joked about, and moved on. Every party member got their 'bauble' in one comic, and only two really ended up as somewhat important.


I only just recently caught up on the comic after dropping off around #600 ages ago. So I can safely say that it's a perceived decline in quality that I'm sensing, not anything to do with the time between updates.

There's a point in almost every book where the team goes around and gets various chores done. You could even say that there are two in NCftPB, one at the beginning and one at the end. Here it is no different. Some of your examples don't do a very good job of fitting your claim. The ring actually becomes a Chekov's Gun in a way, as it allows Roy to reach Xykon, we see Elan's boots in action much later, and Vaarsuvius's ring serves a similar purpose as the ioun stone.

In Tinkertown, several of the items, such as the wands and the bags, have been the source of jokes. In addition, you cannot know how these items will end up being used, so it almost pointless to make your argument based on that.

[littlebum2002]

Does your wizard bounce Chain Lightning off the party's fighter to keep the chain going if no enemies are handy? Ours does. (I know, I was the fighter.)

What's the point of keeping the lightning going if all the enemies are gone?



No, I very much enjoyed the side-quest portion of NCftPB. There was less of it, and I didn't look at all of that thinking "Ah, this will definitely come up later..." It was a of a higher quality than these past few strips, IMO, but I feel the same way about the comic as a whole ever since the last arc.

I'm ready for some action, too. Luckily it looks like we're about to get our wish.



I mean less 'each party member buys a special Chekovs Gun ' stuff. I mean, look what happened in NCftPB while in town. Elan tries to be a wizard. Belkar multiclasses in Barbarian. Roy gets the Bag of Tricks, which plays a minor role, and Belkar gets the Ring of Jumping, which pretty much directly caused the death of the main protagonist

Fixed it for you. The Ring of Jumping played a pretty huge part in the story.

And look at these? I doubt a +1 CL item is going to influence the plot in any way, so I don't see it coming back up again. The wands? Haley already has wands, they could be used just as easily in any Checkov's Gun situation. I don't think either of these are for that reason, I think they are just there for character building and comedy reasons.

[Darth Paul]

Oh, is that one of those things a bunch of people are always arguing about? Sorry, I don't come here very often!

Not always, no. We did just have a several-page thread that got locked, starting on a similar note. (Not over Haley specifically, but it went rambling and... it got... not pretty in some parts. Check the recent threads if you really want to know.)



What's the point of keeping the lightning going if all the enemies are gone?


Not to keep it going because they're gone, but because the fighter is conveniently standing between some enemies that otherwise the lightning can't quite reach. I don't remember the exact setup at this moment, but I believe the lightning was 10 feet short of the next enemy in line; however, I was conveniently placed to be the middle link in the chain. (This is something I can see V doing with Belkar, too, somehow. We were playing 2e rules, though, the physics may have changed since then.)

[Peelee]

Fixed it for you. The Ring of Jumping played a pretty huge part in the story.

No. The ring directly contributed to the main character's death, but it in no way caused that death. Very big difference there.

[Keltest]

No. The ring directly contributed to the main character's death, but it in no way caused that death. Very big difference there.

Obviously it caused his death by not being a ring of feather falling.

[Ebon_Drake]

Right Eye's daughter is Bandana's ex! It all makes sense now!

And I'd think that Bandana would be, if anything, *more* likely than Haley to appreciate a Magic Wand (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magic-Wand-Personal-Massager-HV-260/27126900)*, though I realize some people find them to be overpowered.

*Yes, the above link (to walmart.com) is entirely SFW, though a similar link to amazon.com would have been less so.

There's no way in hell I'm clicking that link, but if it goes where I think it does then I had the same thought. Maybe she prefers her casting to involve a *ahem* somatic component.

I would have said an oral component, but that's not exactly being subtle...

[Forikroder]

No. The ring directly contributed to the main character's death, but it in no way caused that death. Very big difference there.

well there is an argument to be made that without the ring he would have never tried the jump and wouldnt have fallen to his death

[JackRackham]

OMFG Revenge of Thog!?!?!

[Bulldog Psion]

OMFG Revenge of Thog!?!?!

That would be almost as miraculous as "Revenge of Therkla." Not quite, but close. There's the matter of getting out from under tons of rock alive, then getting past Tarquin's guards, then figuring out where the Order was going somehow, then somehow getting there ahead of them without teleportation, when they're flying at high speed over a gigantic ocean.

Everything here is pointing at Bozzok. He got a report on where the Order is going, and he has the resources to intercept them. Frankly, I don't see who else it could be.

A totally new threat would be pointless. Therkla is utterly impossible. Thog is nearly impossible. The Island Orcs are ridiculous, and probably impossible. Goblins are a different color.

Who else is green, has a grudge against the Order, knows where a likely stopping-off point on a journey that very few know about would be, and could get there in time to intercept them?

[theNater]

A totally new threat would be pointless.
You can't really know that until you know the full story of this book and the next, but with as many known threats as there are, hypothesizing an unknown threat defies Occam's Razor.

Therkla is utterly impossible. Thog is nearly impossible. The Island Orcs are ridiculous, and probably impossible. Goblins are a different color.
Neither Therkla nor the Island Orcs are actually impossible, though they are less likely than even Thog.

[Jay R]

Two things: First off, no points in UMD means BAD ROGUE, NO BISCUIT.

I assumed that panel 5 was simply the process of putting her latest skill points in UMD. The player says, "I'm putting points in UMD." The character practices with magical devices until she understands how to make them work.

[Peelee]

well there is an argument to be made that without the ring he would have never tried the jump and wouldnt have fallen to his death

And there's an argument to be made that without Belkar, he wouldn't have been given the ring, would have never have jumped and wouldnt have fallen to his death, so Belkar caused his death. And if the store Belkar had bought it from hadn't ordered it, Belkar wouldn't have had it to give. And if the wizard hadn't made it, and the dragon hadn't been slain by the wizard to grant the xp, and....

Those arguments are spurious. The ring did not cause his death. Xykon's decision to destroy his floating platform caused his death. Everything else (such as the ring, or Roy's inability to fly) just factored into it by varying degrees.

[ORione]

I assumed that panel 5 was simply the process of putting her latest skill points in UMD. The player says, "I'm putting points in UMD." The character practices with magical devices until she understands how to make them work.

I think they meant Bandana.

[littlebum2002]

Not to keep it going because they're gone, but because the fighter is conveniently standing between some enemies that otherwise the lightning can't quite reach. I don't remember the exact setup at this moment, but I believe the lightning was 10 feet short of the next enemy in line; however, I was conveniently placed to be the middle link in the chain. (This is something I can see V doing with Belkar, too, somehow. We were playing 2e rules, though, the physics may have changed since then.)

That makes sense. Now, though, it can strike anyone "within 30' of the primary target", so it would only be useful if your fighter is RIGHT at the edge of your range and your enemies are slightly past him/her.



And there's an argument to be made that without Belkar, he wouldn't have been given the ring, would have never have jumped and wouldnt have fallen to his death, so Belkar caused his death. And if the store Belkar had bought it from hadn't ordered it, Belkar wouldn't have had it to give. And if the wizard hadn't made it, and the dragon hadn't been slain by the wizard to grant the xp, and....

Those arguments are spurious. The ring did not cause his death. Xykon's decision to destroy his floating platform caused his death. Everything else (such as the ring, or Roy's inability to fly) just factored into it by varying degrees.

But the fact remains that the ring played a significant role in the story, do you agree?

[Zea mays]

But the fact remains that the ring played a significant role in the story, do you agree?

When in doubt, go with the simplest explanation. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)

[asorel]

Heh, after reading the end of this comic, my very first thought was "I bet the forums are going crazy". I am not disappointed.

But you're ALL wrong. It's clearly neither Thog nor Bozzak, but a shapeshifted Sabine! :smalltongue:



You have no idea how happy I am that I am not the only one who had that reaction.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I believe that Sabine's skin tone has remained constant throughout her shape-shifts.

[Bulldog Psion]

Neither Therkla nor the Island Orcs are actually impossible, though they are less likely than even Thog.

Well, since Therkla is dead, buried in an unknown location except to Elan, and basically uncared about by anyone except a slight bit of friendship from said Bard ... well, while not technically impossible in the D&D world, it being Therkla is only "possible" in the sense that it is also actually possible, by the rules, that this is a resurrected Trigak polymorphed into a half-orc. :smallwink:

[theNater]

But the fact remains that the ring played a significant role in the story, do you agree?
Has anyone argued, or even suggested, otherwise? That the ring's role was significant is a very different claim than that it caused the main protagonist's death.

... well, while not technically impossible in the D&D world, it being Therkla is only "possible" in the sense that it is also actually possible, by the rules, that this is a resurrected Trigak polymorphed into a half-orc. :smallwink:
Pretty much, yeah.

[ORione]

And there's an argument to be made that without Belkar, he wouldn't have been given the ring, would have never have jumped and wouldnt have fallen to his death, so Belkar caused his death. And if the store Belkar had bought it from hadn't ordered it, Belkar wouldn't have had it to give. And if the wizard hadn't made it, and the dragon hadn't been slain by the wizard to grant the xp, and....

Those arguments are spurious. The ring did not cause his death. Xykon's decision to destroy his floating platform caused his death. Everything else (such as the ring, or Roy's inability to fly) just factored into it by varying degrees.

If the ring hadn't been there, then Roy would not have died. The ring's presence was a cause of his death. Not the only cause, the biggest cause, or the main cause, but still a cause.

[Darth Paul]

I could be wrong, but I think I'm first with this prediction...

Elan's healing wand will eventually be used against Durkula, to wound him with positive energy. Elan will simultaneously make a pun about this. My money's on "You gotta be kind to be cruel."

[goodpeople25]

If the ring hadn't been there, then Roy would not have died. The ring's presence was a cause of his death. Not the only cause, the biggest cause, or the main cause, but still a cause.

Yeah but in that case half the content of the comic are causes for roys death off the top of my head

the gods: the gates and the world
Eugune (and sar for the roy part) : roy himself, and the blood oath
Shojo: for bringing roy to azure city
The order of the scribble for the gates
Basically every one who casued roy to not die till then.
And xykon whos obviously the main cause but everyone resonsible for him bieng in azure city in the first place
Ect.
So yeah technically anything that somehow led to the event (roy's death not the new year's belkar k-arghh) is a cause not the only cause not the biggest cause* not the main cause* but still a cause

* well obviously there is a biggest and a main cause but i'm quoting your words.

[Keltest]

I don't suppose you guys recall that youre just repeating the scene immediately before the Oracle's death, right? Are you going to start arguing about how Miko getting killed was Belkar's fault next?

[goodpeople25]

I don't suppose you guys recall that youre just repeating the scene immediately before the Oracle's death, right? Are you going to start arguing about how Miko getting killed was Belkar's fault next?

As i stated technically he is but so are a lot of other people so it dosen't mean much.

[ORione]

Yeah but in that case half the content of the comic are causes for roys death off the top of my head


True.


As i stated technically he is but so are a lot of other people so it dosen't mean much.

Fair enough.

[martianmister]

Last panels reminds me fourth pabel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0712.html)

[elros]

All I know is that I like OOTS better when there are half-orcs involved. Therkla was one of my favorites, and Thog grew on my over time.
That been said, it must be Bozzok, since it makes sense he would spy on Haley.

[Amphiox]

Well, if it is Bozzok....

The last time Haley's companions were a horribly unoptimized ranger/barbarian and a pacificist sylph with zero combat experience.

The result was that Bozzok almost had his entire organization gutted to the bone.

THIS time Haley's companions are the same unoptimized ranger/barbarian (who single handedly accounted for most of Bozzok's side's losses the last time) PLUS a tactically and strategically skilled Fighter who can one-shot that ranger/barbarian AND a freakin' vampire Dwarf cleric AND a high level mage. (And a Bard who's normally useless, but has a prestige class that gets a circumstance bonus for saving damsels-in-distress, who is currently Haley's significant other....)

And everyone is at least one level higher than last time too.

If the Stickverse has a version of Sun Tzu's Art of War.... then Bozzok quite clearly hasn't read it....

[Killer Angel]

Well, if it is Bozzok....

The last time Haley's companions were a horribly unoptimized ranger/barbarian and a pacificist sylph with zero combat experience.

The result was that Bozzok almost had his entire organization gutted to the bone.

THIS time Haley's companions are the same unoptimized ranger/barbarian (who single handedly accounted for most of Bozzok's side's losses the last time) PLUS a tactically and strategically skilled Fighter who can one-shot that ranger/barbarian AND a freakin' vampire Dwarf cleric AND a high level mage. (And a Bard who's normally useless, but has a prestige class that gets a circumstance bonus for saving damsels-in-distress, who is currently Haley's significant other....)

And everyone is at least one level higher than last time too.

If the Stickverse has a version of Sun Tzu's Art of War.... then Bozzok quite clearly hasn't read it....

Or he has read it, and this time he will be more careful...

[GM_3826]

Well, if it is Bozzok....

The last time Haley's companions were a horribly unoptimized ranger/barbarian and a pacificist sylph with zero combat experience.

The result was that Bozzok almost had his entire organization gutted to the bone.

THIS time Haley's companions are the same unoptimized ranger/barbarian (who single handedly accounted for most of Bozzok's side's losses the last time) PLUS a tactically and strategically skilled Fighter who can one-shot that ranger/barbarian AND a freakin' vampire Dwarf cleric AND a high level mage. (And a Bard who's normally useless, but has a prestige class that gets a circumstance bonus for saving damsels-in-distress, who is currently Haley's significant other....)

And everyone is at least one level higher than last time too.

If the Stickverse has a version of Sun Tzu's Art of War.... then Bozzok quite clearly hasn't read it....


Or he has read it, and this time he will be more careful...

Unlikely, but possible.

[Darth Tom]

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but the green face seems to have a dead straigh up-and-down side, as opposed to the circles that are normally used. I can't think of any character who has a square head - or have I missed something?

Between the art changes and the fact that we haven't seen many through-the-letterbox views, I don't want to rule out that it's just how they look now.

[theNater]

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but the green face seems to have a dead straigh up-and-down side, as opposed to the circles that are normally used. I can't think of any character who has a square head - or have I missed something?

Between the art changes and the fact that we haven't seen many through-the-letterbox views, I don't want to rule out that it's just how they look now.
We're not seeing the whole face; every side of the face is bounded by the (rectangular) letterbox. We cannot conclude anything about the actual shape of the head from this, though I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it's a circle, like every other humanoid's.

[Gnome Alone]

horribly unoptimized ranger/barbarian I know that Belkar's actual build in D&D terms would be pretty unoptimal, but in-comic he's very effective.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but the green face seems to have a dead straigh up-and-down side, as opposed to the circles that are normally used. I can't think of any character who has a square head - or have I missed something?

I thought this at first too, and was hoping for cactus-man, but alas, it appears to be an orc.

I'm very hopeful that it's not Thog, for two reasons:
1. If it's Thog, that means we (almost certainly) get more Tarquin, and I've had enough of that (IMO) cheesy angsty evil-dad cliché.
2. If it's Thog, that means Roy didn't kill Thog in the arena, and I am unwilling to accept that.

[HarbingerIV]

Ok so I think everyone spots the obvious options, but have any of you been concidering that the orc might be mad at Elan and not Haley?

It could be one of the Banjo worshipping Orc-barbarians sent to the north to make Banjo a part of the pantheon- as i recall, The Northeren gods were not completely reluctant to this idea.

But now they see that Elan, the person who was charged with preaching banjo to the world not only kisses an infidel, but he does not have Banjo visible on him.

[Rinazina]

Ok so I think everyone spots the obvious options, but have any of you been concidering that the orc might be mad at Elan and not Haley?


Can be! I guess, story is in development, a subplot should start, and this subplot will have surprises and news.
At the moment there are not so many potentially-open-plot, the older was overall resolved, and few of them can lead enemies in a random vulcanic isaland.

I strongly don't put my chips in Bozzok theory: too easy think at him (after the Sending - and why anticipate him with this strip - when can be more badass put in scene a surprise sneak attack from him in the last panel ?) and Bozzok why have to care ? He's running a guild. maybe Greysky Mafia of Blizzard has take over and now he's just an high level thief aiming to revenge Crystal ? or want kidnap Elan (just to bribe Haley) ? try to kill Elan ? try to stole the Mechano ? enter the Mechano and play a "deal or we fall" exchange ? I don't feel that.

The house was nearby the wands shop, can be related ?

[Bulldog Psion]

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but the green face seems to have a dead straigh up-and-down side, as opposed to the circles that are normally used. I can't think of any character who has a square head - or have I missed something?

You've missed something.

That area to the left of the eyes is not a space between the side of the face and the edge of the letterbox opening.

It's a sliding panel that covers the letterbox, which is now mostly open. In the frame before, you can see that it is mostly closed, as the viewer has just started opening it to peek out. You can see his green showing through the narrow gap, then through a wider gap in the last panel.

The viewer has a normal perfectly round head. You're just misinterpreting where the edge of the open space is because you're interpreting the outer surface of a metal sliding panel as an empty space next to a head with a flat side.

There are two gray, flat panels in the last frame, one large, one small, and an open space completely occupied by green.