PF - Would you pay 3 feats in order to get an animal companion?

[Emparawr]

Ok so I know that there is an official ruling somewhere that the alternate sorcerer bloodlines are actually an "Archetype" and therefore cannot be taken by the Eldritch Heritage line of feats. This is established although for the life of me I cannot find an FAQ for it to provide a link. Setting this aside as a given. I am curious to see peoples opinion on this topic.

Is it a balanced trade to pay 3 feats, (Skill Focus Knowledge Nature, Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan Fae), and Boon Companion) in order to obtain an Animal Companion, with a druid level equivalent to your character level -1?

This has come up with one of my players and I am leaning towards allowing it because he has a great idea. Animal Companions can be rather powerful additions to a character and I am back and forth as to whether or not I believe it to be a balanced trade, but on the flip side, 3 feats is a whole lot of feats. So what do you all think.

There are a few different third party feats that provide an animal companion, or additional animal companions if you already have one.
Signature mount (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/tripod-machine/general-feats---3rd-party---tripod-machine/signature-mount).
Additional Animal Companion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/tripod-machine/general-feats---3rd-party---tripod-machine/additional-animal-companion).
Extra Animal Companion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/louis-porter-jr-design/general-feats---3rd-party---louis-porter-jr/extra-animal-companion).

and one 1st party feat with an extra feat req and a rather limited selection that is 1st party Animal Ally (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/animal-ally).

So with these factors in mind and all that you all already know about this topic, What do you all think?

[grarrrg]

Here's my thoughts, I'll keep them brief.
3 feats for a "level-1" Animal companion is a bit expensive. Compare: Leadership grants a 'level-2 companion' and only takes 1 feat, and that companion can be anything.
I'd say 1 feat for a companion w/penalty, or 2 feats for a companion at no penalty is about right.

Eldritch Heritage + Sylvan should NOT work, for multiple reasons.

Animal Ally is also somewhat broken as written:
Take first few levels in non-companion class, take Animal Ally, then start taking a class that grants a Companion. HOORAY! You now have a (almost) DOUBLE progression companion! Animal Ally explicitly states that the levels from the feat will stack with 'actual' Companion-class-levels. (most broken option would be [whatever] 4/Nature Oracle 16, using a "+1/2 level to revelation" race. 17 levels from the feat plus 24 from Oracle = level 41 companion. Throw on Huntmaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/huntmaster-human) and make it an even 42!)


Signature Mount seems fine, similar level adjustment as Leadership gives.

Additional Animal Companion also seems fine. Extra Animal Companion is comparatively broken.

[Emparawr]

Most over at the paizo forums are saying they would just take the leadership feat instead, but as this would be extremely complicated to accomplish what the player wants, and would mean giving him access to the most powerful feat in the game, I think if I decide 1 feat for an AC is balanced I will have him take signature mount instead since he wants a Roc companion. Its like leadership, with no followers, and a cohort who is actually an animal companion instead of a full blown 2nd character or a monster of some kind. Still interested to hear more opinions on balance.

[Pex]

House rule:

Leadership for a cohort. Can use Animal Companion statistics as you gain levels in exchange for not having any Followers.

[Emparawr]

ya know, I had a guy on my Paizo thread recommend something similar he uses. He said for any players of his who want an animal companion or a familiar he just has them take a feat that gives it to them, as their character level = to druid or wizard level, no level penalty, and they get no followers. I thought that was rather intriguing. Of course you can only take it once, its not for power pumping but instead an easy way for people to get the pet that they want in the type that they want. I do question a bit whether or not this might be too strong, albeit less strong than leadership by a long ways, because the only other way I can think of to get a familiar through a feat would be skill focus Knowledge Arcane and Eldritch Heritage Arcane bloodline, which is two feats for a familiar at -2 levels. Animal companions are definitely better than familiars. Idk I am still questioning the entire power balance of this topic.

[Coidzor]

ya know, I had a guy on my Paizo thread recommend something similar he uses. He said for any players of his who want an animal companion or a familiar he just has them take a feat that gives it to them, as their character level = to druid or wizard level, no level penalty, and they get no followers. I thought that was rather intriguing. Of course you can only take it once, its not for power pumping but instead an easy way for people to get the pet that they want in the type that they want. I do question a bit whether or not this might be too strong, albeit less strong than leadership by a long ways, because the only other way I can think of to get a familiar through a feat would be skill focus Knowledge Arcane and Eldritch Heritage Arcane bloodline, which is two feats for a familiar at -2 levels. Animal companions are definitely better than familiars. Idk I am still questioning the entire power balance of this topic.

So you have two questions to answer of your perspective before you address the power of the feat.

1. Do you feel like full progression/full-strength Animal Companion or Familiar are niches worth protecting for the sake of Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards?

2. How readily available do you want the feat to be? Do you want it to be a feat anyone can take casually or do you want it to require some dedicated building towards?

Only then can you answer the questions of how powerful the feat should be and how many feats should be in the chain.

[Extra Anchovies]

1. Do you feel like full progression/full-strength Animal Companion or Familiar are niches worth protecting for the sake of Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards?

ITT: Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards need niche protection :smalltongue:

Joking sarcasm aside, I would not at all define those as niches worth protecting. Heck, there's quite a few archetypes that hand out full-progression pets to various classes.

[weckar]

Nature Soul is a silly prereq for Animal Ally. At our table, at least, any feat prereq like that can be replaced with ranks in the relevant skills. But that's houserules, of course.

[Psyren]

I don't mind a tax to be able to staple an animal companion onto any class. Keep in mind that it functions as a druid companion which means (a) you can pick up Boon Companion to eliminate the penalty and (b) it gets companion benefits that a Leadership animal doesn't, like Share Spells and Link.