Help creating a King of Dragons?

[Xaroth]

My DM is running a campaign in which the other players and I all run our own Kingdoms, and we are to allocate a book to our Kingdom, of which our residents will originate from, and we're also all allowed to choose from the PHB.
However, as my Kingdom was the first kingdom before everyone decided they wanted to run their own, I've been allowed two books. They're set in stone, and they are the Draconomicon and the Races of the Dragon handbook.

Currently I'm looking at the Dragonfriend feat for sure along with the Ring of Dragon Friendship. My Kingdom consists of True Neutral dragons, Neutral Good dragons, Chaotic Good dragons, and Lawful Good dragons.
I'm allowed an ECL of 20 and am looking into being a Platinum Dragonborn of Bahamut. There are no other Platinum Dragons in my entire kingdom, so that would be how I'm signified as the King. But I want to be able to solve any issues within my kingdom in peaceful manners while still having a huge battalion of dragons.
I'm also allowed an ECL 15 Queen, who also needs to follow the book criteria. I'm very interested in this whole thing and was thinking of making my Queen a Dragonsong Lyrist to buff those on the battlefield.

I'm limited by race to my books and the PHB, but not limited elsewhere. Does anybody have any advice for building such a character, and its queen?

[ILM]

I'm sorry I don't have more to contribute, but in your shoes I'd totally make the queen a Gold Dragon of the appropriate age category, in human form. Heck, it might even be a closely guarded secret :smallwink:.

[atemu1234]

Call yourself Rhaegar Targaryen? And have a character with platinum-blonde hair and purple eyes?

[AngelOfFaith]

Dragon Ally [Conjuration(Calling)] from Spell Compendium calls a dragon to do your bidding. Don't know if it'll help, I guess all the dragons are already your subjects...
And you'd better be ready to pay up.

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, lets start with some cool stuff you can do.

Lets be a dragonborn of behamut. Lets get a really nice charisma score, so lets start with a spellscale base. You end up with something like -2 dex, +4 cha. They have an ACF that allows you to rebuke dragons in place of turn undead. Now, take the fire and earth domains as your domains. Pick up Planer Touchstone(Catallouges of enlightenment) for the cold domain and contemplative 1 for the water domain.

Now, you have 4/5 of the elemental rebukes, plus rebuke dragon (enough to cover all metalic dragons). You have 5 turning pools capable of controling dragons (most of them have elemental subtypes). If you abuse level draining (temporary only) you can control a single dragon up to 20HD in each. You can control up to you cleric level in each pool, you are cleric 20 with the improved turning feat (making up for the loss of 1 level to contemplative).

That means you run around as a cleric accompanied by the following.
1 adult brass dragon with one class level (rebuke fire creatures)
1 Young adult bronze dragon with two class levels (rebuke water creatures)
1 Adult copper dragon (rebuke earth creatures)
1 Young adult gold dragon (rebuke dragons)
1 Young adult silver dragon with one class level (rebuke cold creatures)

To rebuke these massively powerful high HD creatures, you have to do some prep-work. First, you have to reduce their HD so you can turn them. The best way to do this is to apply 10 negative levels. Once they have half your HD, you can control them by using rebuke. So long as they don't end up more than your HD when you restore the negative levels, they remain under your control.

There are items that allow you to act as a level

If your DM throws out the level drain cheese, you can still rebuke 2 of each dragon type so long as they remain under half your cleric level (so 10hd)
Unfortunately that restricts you to wyrmling and very young dragons, not the most useful in an epic or pre-epic game.

Have fun running around with 5 level 20 flying melee monsters with minor magic to do your bidding.

EDIT - Oh, you also specified a horde of dragons, so let's get cheesy.

Take draconic leadership, boom, another dragon. This one can be any dragon no more than 1 step from your alignment and up to ECL 21 (draconic cohort allows you to reduce the ECL by 3 when calculating it's level as a cohort)

Now have each of your rebuked dragons take draconic leadership (they all have 20 HD, so another 21 ECL follower each)

Now, each of those can take leadership and dragon cohort.

AND, all those level 6 followers, they can be wyrmling brass dragons (ECL 6).

Have fun with your dragon army.

EDIT - Typo, you can control up to 20HD of dragon in each pool, not 40.

[Xaroth]

Well, lets start with some cool stuff you can do.

Lets be a dragonborn of behamut. Lets get a really nice charisma score, so lets start with a spellscale base. You end up with something like -2 dex, +4 cha. They have an ACF that allows you to rebuke dragons in place of turn undead. Now, take the fire and earth domains as your domains. Pick up Planer Touchstone(Catallouges of enlightenment) for the cold domain and contemplative 1 for the water domain.

Now, you have 4/5 of the elemental rebukes, plus rebuke dragon (enough to cover all metalic dragons). You have 5 turning pools capable of controling dragons (most of them have elemental subtypes). If you abuse level draining (temporary only) you can control a single dragon up to 40HD in each. You can control up to you cleric level in each pool, you are cleric 20 with the improved turning feat (making up for the loss of 1 level to contemplative).

That means you run around as a cleric accompanied by the following.
1 adult brass dragon with one class level (rebuke fire creatures)
1 Young adult bronze dragon with two class levels (rebuke water creatures)
1 Adult copper dragon (rebuke earth creatures)
1 Young adult gold dragon (rebuke dragons)
1 Young adult silver dragon with one class level (rebuke cold creatures)

To rebuke these massively powerful high HD creatures, you have to do some prep-work. First, you have to reduce their HD so you can turn them. The best way to do this is to apply 10 negative levels. Once they have half your HD, you can control them by using rebuke. So long as they don't end up more than your HD when you restore the negative levels, they remain under your control.

There are items that allow you to act as a level

If your DM throws out the level drain cheese, you can still rebuke 2 of each dragon type so long as they remain under half your cleric level (so 10hd)
Unfortunately that restricts you to wyrmling and very young dragons, not the most useful in an epic or pre-epic game.

Have fun running around with 5 level 20 flying melee monsters with minor magic to do your bidding.

EDIT - Oh, you also specified a horde of dragons, so let's get cheesy.

Take draconic leadership, boom, another dragon. This one can be any dragon no more than 1 step from your alignment and up to ECL 21 (draconic cohort allows you to reduce the ECL by 3 when calculating it's level as a cohort)

Now have each of your rebuked dragons take draconic leadership (they all have 20 HD, so another 21 ECL follower each)

Now, each of those can take leadership and dragon cohort.

AND, all those level 6 followers, they can be wyrmling brass dragons (ECL 6).

Have fun with your dragon army.

Sweet korean jesus on a motorbike that's amazing. Thanks!

[Yael]

Sweet korean jesus on a motorbike that's amazing. Thanks!

Couldn't made that up. Just hilarious.

[Vhaidara]

Sweet korean jesus on a motorbike that's amazing. Thanks!

1. Seconded.
2. Can I sig that?

[Fouredged Sword]

Also, remember to convert them to fanatical using your near epic diplomacy. It may only be a +2 str and con and +1 to willsaves, but it also renders them willing to follow ANY order you give, even without magic.

You just have to diplomacy them to frendly and hit a DC 60 diplomacy check (this is also a good way to talk them into doing the whole level drain rebuking to be your magic servant thing). They stay fanatic for a number of days equal to your charisma bonus, and you are a +4 race, so after book and cape, you are looking at an easy base 15... So you end up with a charisma of 30, so 10 days.

Also, this means your base diplomacy is 20+3 ranks +10 charisma, so 33. A single guidance of the avatar puts that at 53, so take 10 and you hit 60.

[Sith_Happens]

I'm sorry I don't have more to contribute, but in your shoes I'd totally make the queen a Gold Dragon of the appropriate age category, in human form. Heck, it might even be a closely guarded secret :smallwink:.

Uh... I'm really hoping you missed either (a) the part where the queen can be ECL 15 at most or (b) the fact that that limits you to Wyrmling Golds.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, I would just go with a bard / sublime chord build for the queen. Have her be a draconic spellscale for +4 charisma and a non-platinum dragon bride theme (buy off the 1 la). Now you have some arcane support casting to your divine spellwinning.

Or just tell your DM you are wedding the young adult gold dragon you rebuked. She may be about ECL 30, but you don't need DM fiat to get her anyway, so just tell him you don't need any help getting your mack on with a fine side of gold. :smallcool:

[Sith_Happens]

I guess now's when I also bring up the part where Dragonborn are asexual.

[Fouredged Sword]

I guess now's when I also bring up the part where Dragonborn are asexual.

Yep, Big B basically overwrites that side of the dragonborn. No interest in getting jiggy. Now, you sill have a gender, just no interest in procreation. You are sterile anyway, so you can't even produce an heir naturally.

Now you are also a level 20 cleric. If you want to make a baby, both you and your dragon lady are capable of transmutation magic enough to make a baby in whatever biology you so please.

See BoEF for more details.

[Xaroth]

1. Seconded.
2. Can I sig that?

Sure, go right ahead.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Uh... I'm really hoping you missed either (a) the part where the queen can be ECL 15 at most or (b) the fact that that limits you to Wyrmling Golds.

Tome Dragons get alternate form and Steel Dragons get polymorph (both from wyrmlings). A very young tome dragon sorcerer 1 gets sorcerer 6 casting, no restriction on what metamagic casting time, and -1 to the final cost of metamagic spells.

[Xaroth]

Tome Dragons get alternate form and Steel Dragons get polymorph (both from wyrmlings). A very young tome dragon sorcerer 1 gets sorcerer 6 casting, no restriction on what metamagic casting time, and -1 to the final cost of metamagic spells.

The thing with that is that those dragons aren't in the Races of the Dragon book nor the Draconomicon. I would love to play the Steel Dragon but it's not within my boundaries.

[Coidzor]

I guess now's when I also bring up the part where Dragonborn are asexual.

Yeeep, rather defeats the point of having a Queen, really, and sets you up for a succession crisis. Which, y'know, those are fun.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeeep, rather defeats the point of having a Queen, really, and sets you up for a succession crisis. Which, y'know, those are fun.

Eh, the sterility is a racial thing. Just polymorph into a race compatible with your wife and think of England. You may not have an emotional drive to breed, but you are a thinking being. Nothing is stopping you from deciding to sire an heir. So long as the female is in her natural form it solves most of the inter-species fertility problems.

[atemu1234]

Just polymorph into a race compatible with your wife and think of England.

I really want to Sig this.

[Coidzor]

Eh, the sterility is a racial thing. Just polymorph into a race compatible with your wife and think of England. You may not have an emotional drive to breed, but you are a thinking being. Nothing is stopping you from deciding to sire an heir. So long as the female is in her natural form it solves most of the inter-species fertility problems.

You mean aside from having Papa Bahamuts going in and neutering your mind while you gestated inside an egg made out of gems and such? :smalltongue:

[Sith_Happens]

You mean aside from having Papa Bahamuts going in and neutering your mind while you gestated inside an egg made out of gems and such? :smalltongue:

"Thinking of England" is precisely a euphemism for not letting that sort of thing get in the way of your political imperative to breed. A king's gotta do what a king's gotta do, to put it differently.

That aside, I just checked Draconomicon and true dragon reproductive age starts at Young Adult, so "ECL 15 dragon as the queen" is definitely a no-go.

[atemu1234]

Diplomance an impressionable young adult gold dragon?

[Sith_Happens]

Diplomance an impressionable young adult gold dragon?

DM says the queen can be ECL 15 at the highest, there's not really any getting around that.

[Vhaidara]

Would mindraping programmed amnesiaing (good guys, right) it to be more mentally mature count as fixing things or making them worse?

[DarkSonic1337]

Could you start with a ECL 15 queen and Bestow Curse her to age her into maturity in order to deliver your polymorph inseminated child heir?

[Sith_Happens]

Would mindraping programmed amnesiaing (good guys, right) it to be more mentally mature count as fixing things or making them worse?

Considering that that's called pedophilia, you tell me.


Could you start with a ECL 15 queen and Bestow Curse her to age her into maturity in order to deliver your polymorph inseminated child heir?

http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/comment/%D1%81%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BB-%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D 0%B0-%D0%90%D1%80%D1%82-%D0%BA%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B1-1121590.png

[Xaroth]

Would mindraping programmed amnesiaing (good guys, right) it to be more mentally mature count as fixing things or making them worse?

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/004/582/Hxs1TBsQ4bjic3y3PmJ2T4pV_400.gif


Could you start with a ECL 15 queen and Bestow Curse her to age her into maturity in order to deliver your polymorph inseminated child heir?

http://i.imgur.com/z3OfyPQ.gif?1

[ILM]

Well, I never thought I'd regret making that suggestion so much. :smalleek:

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, a technical solution is not always a real solution.

Yeah, I think the best we can do with the queen is to romance some half-dragon or draconic member of a more normal race. A Draconic-Spellscale is pretty dragonish.

Or, for hilarity, maybe a dragonwraught Kobold. It's technically a true dragon, and may even be a LG servant of a metalic dragon.

[Xaroth]

Yeah, a technical solution is not always a real solution.

Yeah, I think the best we can do with the queen is to romance some half-dragon or draconic member of a more normal race. A Draconic-Spellscale is pretty dragonish.

Or, for hilarity, maybe a dragonwraught Kobold. It's technically a true dragon, and may even be a LG servant of a metalic dragon.

Talked to my DM about this.

Me: "Did you know Dragonborn are a-sexual?"
DM: "Really? Well that poses a bit of a problem."
Me: "Yeah, kinda defeats the purpose of having a queen. Found out by posting on giantitp asking for help."
DM: "Well, that, and how do you expect your cities to survive if its major inhabitants can't reproduce?"
Me: "...good point. Damn."
DM: "I mean, there's always Dragonnels..."
Me: "I'M NOT GOING TO REPRODUCE WITH DRAGON HORSES."

[Fouredged Sword]

Talked to my DM about this.

Me: "Did you know Dragonborn are a-sexual?"
DM: "Really? Well that poses a bit of a problem."
Me: "Yeah, kinda defeats the purpose of having a queen. Found out by posting on giantitp asking for help."
DM: "Well, that, and how do you expect your cities to survive if its major inhabitants can't reproduce?"
Me: "...good point. Damn."
DM: "I mean, there's always Dragonnels..."
Me: "I'M NOT GOING TO REPRODUCE WITH DRAGON HORSES."

While you ARE a-sexual, you have a gender and, through polymorph, can get around the sterility issue. Your queen can be of any race or gender, you just won't be interesting in reproducing on any level other than purely for social and political reasons. If breeding will further the cause of serving Mr B, then breed you shall.

Also, just because you are dragonborn, doesn't mean your KINGDOM is composed of dragonborn. The calling is a rare thing that can happen to anyone. It is more likely that you have a kingdom of dragonblooded, like spellscales, silverbrow humans, ect... They can breed with each other just fine.