Animal question

[Tiri]

In the game I am currently playing in, my sorcerer owns a pet chicken (I'm planning to turn it into a familliar later), which is basically a raven with the fly speed removed. I asked my DM if I could have taught it some tricks before the adventure started, since the character owned the chicken for about 3 years prior to him meeting any of the other characters and going on adventures, but he said no because he thought that chickens cannot learn tricks because they are too stupid. My question is whether this is true or not, because I'm think the PHB says that any animal can learn tricks if it has an Intelligence of at least 1. I don't have the book with me now so I can't check myself.

[Coidzor]

Meet d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/handleAnimal.htm) Quite the useful resource, really.

As for the RAW, well, you'll find that in the section about teaching an animal tricks.

"Teach an Animal a Trick

You can teach an animal a specific trick with one week of work and a successful Handle Animal check against the indicated DC. An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence score of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks. Possible tricks (and their associated DCs) include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following."

But if the DM is houseruling then you're probably better off not focusing too much on this chicken. Why isn't this already your familiar, though, if you've confirmed that it is a valid familiar choice?

[Tiri]

It might be awhile until I have enough gold. (My sorcerer just threw the gold he got from our first adventure into the sea for fear it might be cursed.) Also, the DM is not houseruling. He firmly believes the rules prohibit a chicken from learning tricks, but how he possibly came to that conclusion when there are no rules concerning chickens in any D&D books is a mystery to me.

[Scipio_77]

RAW aside, recent research show chickens are actually pretty smart. It is also unproblematic to tame them.

I'm guessing he just doesn't like the idea of a chicken familiar, which is his loss. I think it is a cool idea... roosters could give +3 intimidate and hens +3 escape artist.

[HighWater]

Yeah, this seems weird. The Chicken is not a statted animal in D&D and therefore there are no specific (or general) rules banning chickens from Handle Animal tricks. Handle Animal applies to all animals unless specifically noted, the DM made this one up.

If he is under the impression that chickens are unredeemably stupid, he should perhaps check again, because that's not quite accurate.

Also, chickens can fly, it's just a pretty awful form of flight.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Chickens can indeed be taught tricks, both by RAW and IRL. "Recent research" aside, the chickens I raised were appalling stupid. Not in the rote memorization way so much as the common sense way. As a DM with RL experience I would give domesticated chickens a land speed of 20, a jump of 10, and a glide of 5. A chicken can definitely run faster than a raven.

[Tiri]

Yeah, this seems weird. The Chicken is not a statted animal in D&D and therefore there are no specific (or general) rules banning chickens from Handle Animal tricks. Handle Animal applies to all animals unless specifically noted, the DM made this one up.

If he is under the impression that chickens are unredeemably stupid, he should perhaps check again, because that's not quite accurate.

Well, he does get some strange ideas sometimes. I think the last one was "everything in the PHB is balanced because WoTC playtested it." His exact words.


Chickens can indeed be taught tricks, both by RAW and IRL. "Recent research" aside, the chickens I raised were appalling stupid. Not in the rote memorization way so much as the common sense way. As a DM with RL experience I would give domesticated chickens a land speed of 20, a jump of 10, and a glide of 5. A chicken can definitely run faster than a raven.

Actually, I did get the DM to give it a 20 land speed.

[atemu1234]

Quite frankly, I've converted familiars from PF to 3.5 for more variety. Was chicken in there?

[Ruethgar]

I would probably give chickens the effect of the Dragon Wings feat. That would reflect their form of flight fairly well(jumping to go a little further).

[Chronos]

Yes, chickens are abysmally stupid. That's what 1 Int means: They're so stupid that they can only learn three tricks. That's about as stupid as you can get, once you get beyond the insect level.

[Ruethgar]

Of course as a familiar it would get int 6 instantly making a normal chicken's intelligence a moot point... why isn't it a familiar yet? Also a chicken can learn as many as 6 tricks if including the extra tricks feat, more if you reform/retrain/shuffle the feat into an indefinite number of flaws... like a frail, vulnerable, poor fortitude, shaky, non-combatant, chicken infested chicken for instance.

[Coidzor]

Of course as a familiar it would get int 6 instantly making a normal chicken's intelligence a moot point... why isn't it a familiar yet? Also a chicken can learn as many as 6 tricks if including the extra tricks feat, more if you reform/retrain/shuffle the feat into an indefinite number of flaws... like a frail, vulnerable, poor fortitude, shaky, non-combatant, chicken infested chicken for instance.

How do you get a Chicken to count as a Commoner though?

[Inevitability]

How do you get a Chicken to count as a Commoner though?

Mind Rape Fred the commoner and read all that has caused him to become a commoner.

Mind Rape the chicken and replace his memories with these ones.

[Urpriest]

RAW, he's right. Chickens aren't statted as animals, so they default to objects (and exclusively background objects, since there isn't any information on their hp either). So you can't train them.

Of course, if he's already homebrewed them as having Raven-like stats then by his own rules he's already agreed that they're just as trainable as Ravens, as he had an opportunity when writing their statblock to give them a special ability to prevent them from being trainable. Since he didn't do that, he doesn't actually think that you can't train your chicken.

[Tiri]

Ok, well, I talked to my DM last night and it turns out that he actually just forgot the Handle Animal skill existed and that "tricks" were just something that I had made up. So the problem's resolved now.

[HighWater]

Great! It's important that a DM can change his judgement based on... well... evidence.

[Kelb_Panthera]

RAW, he's right. Chickens aren't statted as animals, so they default to objects (and exclusively background objects, since there isn't any information on their hp either). So you can't train them.

Where did this come from? It's always been my understanding that any animal that isn't stat'ed out should just use the nearest equivalent from the animals that are stat'ed.

[Ruethgar]

Where did this come from? It's always been my understanding that any animal that isn't stat'ed out should just use the nearest equivalent from the animals that are stat'ed.

This isn't entirely the case, however there are several animal descriptions that make it so for certain types of creatures, including the raven and leopard descriptions.


The statistics presented here can describe most nonpredatory birds of similar size.

The statistics presented here can describe any feline of similar size, such as jaguars, panthers, and mountain lions.

[Urpriest]

Where did this come from? It's always been my understanding that any animal that isn't stat'ed out should just use the nearest equivalent from the animals that are stat'ed.

If you want to bother to stat it out, sure. As mentioned above, sometimes you're instructed to. But the rest of the time you don't need to stat something if it's got no in-game meaning.