Making the biblical Samson

[Nonah_Me]

Hey folks. I'm running a game for brand new players, and I need some advice.

I have a player who's got a 2nd level cleric. I don't have his sheet in front of me at the moment, but he wants to essentially play Samson from the Old Testament. I didn't really know all that much about the figure, so I looked it up on Wikipedia and it seems to me that Samson has more in common with say a Hercules figure than any kind of cleric analogue.

So, what does the Playground say about convincing him to be a Barbarian instead? He has a 19 strength, is a non-variant human, and in my campaign world his tribe lives to the east of the starting area, in rocky hills.

Thoughts?

[Inevitability]

War Domain cleric would possibly work. Then again, Samson was really strong and that is where the divine part ends.

Maybe convince him to make a Fighter with a 1-level dip in war cleric? Strength and Wisdom would be the highest (although I seriously doubt Samson was the wisest guy around). The extra attacks from the domain could be fluffed as a single mighty blow, instead of multiple small hits.

[daryen]

Samson was basically a Barbarian. In fact, the rage feature works really well with the character. He was in no way a cleric; he was not particularly religious and was not a religious leader. He wasn't even a warlord, but rather more of a hero. (Unlike most Judges, he didn't really lead. He just beat the crap out of the enemy when provoked.) Barbarian works very well for him. He should also be good with improvisational weapons.

I am not familiar with 5E yet, but to really add in his flavor give him a special feat (or whatever) where he gets a large bonus to strength, but loses double the bonus if his hair is cut. (Basically, he should be as strong as a hill giant with the bonus, but at best strength 8 without.) To protect the character, his hair can only be cut if he tells his secret. (So, if someone just cuts his hair, he's fine. If he tells them, then they cut his hair, he's screwed.) If he does get his hair cut and lose his strength, he gets it all back after letting his hair grow uncut for one year. (Assuming he survives the year.)

[Nonah_Me]

Thanks for the advice.

I think what I'm going to do is talk to my buddy and remake his character for him, and then suggest that he take the Totem Warrior path when he hits 3rd level. I'm away from books at the moment but what background do you think would work for this character? I don't think Acolyte, but maybe some kind of Outlander or Folk Hero background?

[VeliciaL]

Gonna agree with everyone here, Barbarian suits Sampson far more than Cleric. Sampson was essentially good at beating things up and feats of strength, and especially notable for beating up Phillistines with anything that was immediately handy. If I were building him, I'd probably go variant human with the Tavern Brawler feat.

But you're more or less right, Sampson was more of a Homeric hero than a religious leader.

[daryen]

Again, not much 5E knowledge.

From the background story, he was born to a previously childless couple upon the word of an angel. So, making assumptions about what the 5E term means, "Folk Hero" would probably work out well.

For such a well-known biblical character, he was surprisingly non-religious and hedonistic.

[VeliciaL]

Again, not much 5E knowledge.

From the background story, he was born to a previously childless couple upon the word of an angel. So, making assumptions about what the 5E term means, "Folk Hero" would probably work out well.

For such a well-known biblical character, he was surprisingly non-religious and hedonistic.

As I recall, it was largely a cautionary tale. His hedonism is what nearly did him in in the end.

Folk Hero sounds about right to me, too.

[Yorrin]

Yeah, Sampson was a Folk Hero Barbarian with abysmal Wis and Int and superhuman Str, with Tavern Brawler as one of his feats for the improvised weapon proficiency (jawbone of a donkey ftw) VeliciaL is right that his tale is a cautionary one in many regards- he was only opportunistically devout and it cost him big time. The tale is also meant to show that God can still use/work with people who don't really worship him to bring about good. The character is a relatively simple one but the story itself is rather multifaceted.

[Slipperychicken]

If I was making him as a barbarian, I'd consider going with Bear Totem at 3, just so that elemental damage doesn't ruin his day.


Feats would look like: Tavern Brawler (bump strength to 20, improvised weapon prof), Tough, Lucky (fluff it as divine favor).

[rlc]

War Domain cleric would possibly work. Then again, Samson was really strong and that is where the divine part ends.

Maybe convince him to make a Fighter with a 1-level dip in war cleric? Strength and Wisdom would be the highest (although I seriously doubt Samson was the wisest guy around). The extra attacks from the domain could be fluffed as a single mighty blow, instead of multiple small hits.

I agree with a cleric dip, but not so much for spells as for divine intervention. Wisdom should definitely be his dump stat, though his intelligence could probably be decent, since he did a lot of thinking outside the box with his revenge schemes.

[Baptor]

I agree with a cleric dip, but not so much for spells as for divine intervention. Wisdom should definitely be his dump stat, though his intelligence could probably be decent, since he did a lot of thinking outside the box with his revenge schemes.

I agree with this. He probably had a good Intelligence score (he came up with clever riddles to trick his enemies, devised tactics, etc.) but a terrible Wisdom score (was easily fooled, duped by pretty women, made terrible decisions, etc.)

His super strength came in part from an oath he took (Nazarite Vow) which among other taboos said he could never cut his hair. Once his hair was cut he lost his powers until it grew out again. While I agree with most the Barbarian makes sense, you could argue for a Paladin due to the oath thing.

[rlc]

You do make a pretty good argument for paladin. Plus, you wouldn't have a counter-intuitive low wisdom cleric.
I'd just like to reiterate that he was really clever with his revenge. I mean, check this out:

So he went out and caught three hundred foxes and tied them tail to tail in pairs. He then fastened a torch to every pair of tails, lit the torches and let the foxes loose in the standing grain of the Philistines. He burned up the shocks and standing grain, together with the vineyards and olive groves.
How awesome is that?

[Baptor]

How awesome is that?

It's pretty awesome, actually. Funny thing is, had I not been familiar with this narrative, I am not sure as a DM if I would let a player do this. Just goes to show that "Yes, and..." is a pretty good place to start. I regret being such a stingy DM for so many years. I could have had so many more fun games if I'd had a better imagination.

[Inevitability]

I'd just like to reiterate that he was really clever with his revenge. I mean, check this out:

How awesome is that?

Sounds like the typical PC plan. :smalltongue:

No seriously, I once considered buying fifty goats, tying bags of coal to their backs, setting the coal on fire, and sending them into the enemy camp. I only need to find a way to include a dust explosion...

[Celcey]

If your player wants to legit make Sampson, there are some other things he can't do, like drink, eat any kind of grape product, or be around any human(oid) corpses, because both of those would break his vow. So he'd have to avoid undead like the plague, and do a whole ritual thing every time he killed a human(oid). That might be a problem for your campaign, though, so you might wanna ignore that bit.

[mr_odd]

If your player wants to legit make Sampson, there are some other things he can't do, like drink, eat any kind of grape product, or be around any human(oid) corpses, because both of those would break his vow. So he'd have to avoid undead like the plague, and do a whole ritual thing every time he killed a human(oid). That might be a problem for your campaign, though, so you might wanna ignore that bit.

As someone who is getting a B.S. in Bible and Preaching, Samson best fits Barbarian. He actually broke all of the nazarite vows, and he didn't really care. Sunday school portrays him in a much more positive light, but he did not adhere to what he was supposed to believe or do at all. A Barbarian whose personality traits include having a list of vows that he doesn't actually care for would be the best fit, along with being pretty selfish. Also, he has to have long hair.

[Baptor]

As someone who is getting a B.S. in Bible and Preaching, Samson best fits Barbarian. He actually broke all of the nazarite vows, and he didn't really care. Sunday school portrays him in a much more positive light, but he did not adhere to what he was supposed to believe or do at all. A Barbarian whose personality traits include having a list of vows that he doesn't actually care for would be the best fit, along with being pretty selfish. Also, he has to have long hair.

Aye, he didn't keep the Vow, that's true. Still, I think the paladin angle is neat.

It's true all of that stuff mentioned earlier was part of the Nazarite Vow, but he broke them all. It seems though, for reasons the narrative doesn't make clear, cutting his hair was the bit that broke his divine-gifted strength. Samson seemed to know this was the trick himself, but we aren't told why.

Also, even though Samson took a lifelong Nazarite Vow, it was not specifically the source of his strength. Lots of people took the Vow and had no supernatural abilities. You also didn't have to take it for life. You could take the Vow for as little or long as you liked to. Samson's special gift had more to do with the fact he was a Judge (a kind of ancient hero who defended the people and also ruled them but was not a king). The gifted strength helped him to fulfill that role, and while Samson did run around breaking his vow and making trouble, it also seems he still got around to whipping Philistines and doing his job too.

But somehow the long hair was the linchpin, and we really don't know why.

[mr_odd]

Aye, he didn't keep the Vow, that's true. Still, I think the paladin angle is neat.

It's true all of that stuff mentioned earlier was part of the Nazarite Vow, but he broke them all. It seems though, for reasons the narrative doesn't make clear, cutting his hair was the bit that broke his divine-gifted strength. Samson seemed to know this was the trick himself, but we aren't told why.

Also, even though Samson took a lifelong Nazarite Vow, it was not specifically the source of his strength. Lots of people took the Vow and had no supernatural abilities. You also didn't have to take it for life. You could take the Vow for as little or long as you liked to. Samson's special gift had more to do with the fact he was a Judge (a kind of ancient hero who defended the people and also ruled them but was not a king). The gifted strength helped him to fulfill that role, and while Samson did run around breaking his vow and making trouble, it also seems he still got around to whipping Philistines and doing his job too.

But somehow the long hair was the linchpin, and we really don't know why.

The Paladin angle could work pretty well, considering Samson was one of the judges of the Israelites. The Nazarite Vow was actually something that was to be given to Samson when he was born, not necessarily chosen by him. At this point in the book of Judges, we see that the cycle that the Israelites are in of falling away from God, being rescued by a Judge, being free, and then falling back into oppression due to their falling away from God, has become a spiral in which the Israelites are actually moving farther and farther away from God. At this point, the Judges are as well, and this is where we see Samson.

Though he did not want to follow God, God gave him the abilities needed and used him to liberate his people from oppression. The Nazarite Vow was not the source of his strength, but when he tells Delilah that his strength comes from his hair, and it is cut, we see that the last portion of the Nazarite Vow has been broken. Samson has completely turned away from being the man that he was supposed to be, so God leaves him to his own fate, and takes His spirit away from Samson.

The more I think about it, the more Paladin seems to fit more, and this kind of character would be extremely interesting to play. However, it would suck for the rest of the party when you break the last portion of the vow and lose all of your power 3/4 of the way through the campaign. Although, it would be pretty awesome to end the campaign by receiving your powers once more and going out in a blaze of glory.

[Baptor]

The Paladin angle could work pretty well, considering Samson was one of the judges of the Israelites. The Nazarite Vow was actually something that was to be given to Samson when he was born, not necessarily chosen by him. At this point in the book of Judges, we see that the cycle that the Israelites are in of falling away from God, being rescued by a Judge, being free, and then falling back into oppression due to their falling away from God, has become a spiral in which the Israelites are actually moving farther and farther away from God. At this point, the Judges are as well, and this is where we see Samson.

Though he did not want to follow God, God gave him the abilities needed and used him to liberate his people from oppression. The Nazarite Vow was not the source of his strength, but when he tells Delilah that his strength comes from his hair, and it is cut, we see that the last portion of the Nazarite Vow has been broken. Samson has completely turned away from being the man that he was supposed to be, so God leaves him to his own fate, and takes His spirit away from Samson.

The more I think about it, the more Paladin seems to fit more, and this kind of character would be extremely interesting to play. However, it would suck for the rest of the party when you break the last portion of the vow and lose all of your power 3/4 of the way through the campaign. Although, it would be pretty awesome to end the campaign by receiving your powers once more and going out in a blaze of glory.

Yay, my idea is a good one!

I have always found Samson an interesting study. Thanks for your insights on that.

Well, you don't have to go full Samson and screw up. You could be the Samson at the beginning when all was right and keep the vow and your powers and do everything right. I mean I doubt this guy wants to make a Samson and literally follow in his footsteps all the way to his eyes being gouged out and sacrificing himself.

You never go full Samson. :smallwink:

[mr_odd]

You never go full Samson. :smallwink:

May I put that in my sig? That's great haha. And yes, it might be best to not necessarily go that route. I might be one of the few players who would enjoy losing all of my powers for narrative purposes haha.

[Michael7123]

I agree most of what's been said here. He should be a barbarian with roughly the following stats:

Strength: Crazy high. Obvious.

Dex: Should be above ten at minimum.

Constitution: A bit lower than strength.

Intellegent: He was clever, so it shouldn't be too low.

Wisdom: DUMP it in the trash. Negative modifer would be preferable. (I don't know if that's still a thing in 5e)

Charisma: should actually be rather high. He certInly didn't have any trouble getting beautiful women to come to him in the first place.

Also, what deity is he worshiping. It should be a lawful good diety, while Samson would be chaotic good.

Everything else is really covered here. In regards to the talk about Paladins, there is a paladin of freedom from 3.5e. Maybe looking at that might give some ideas.

[rlc]

I agree most of what's been said here. He should be a barbarian with roughly the following stats:

Strength: Crazy high. Obvious.

Dex: Should be above ten at minimum.

Constitution: A bit lower than strength.

Intellegent: He was clever, so it shouldn't be too low.

Wisdom: DUMP it in the trash. Negative modifer would be preferable. (I don't know if that's still a thing in 5e)

Charisma: should actually be rather high. He certInly didn't have any trouble getting beautiful women to come to him in the first place.

Also, what deity is he worshiping. It should be a lawful good diety, while Samson would be chaotic good.

Everything else is really covered here. In regards to the talk about Paladins, there is a paladin of freedom from 3.5e. Maybe looking at that might give some ideas.
>negative modifier
Yeah, it's still a thing.

[Baptor]

May I put that in my sig? That's great haha. And yes, it might be best to not necessarily go that route. I might be one of the few players who would enjoy losing all of my powers for narrative purposes haha.

Permission granted to quote in sig. :)

[MReav]

Sounds like the typical PC plan. :smalltongue:

No seriously, I once considered buying fifty goats, tying bags of coal to their backs, setting the coal on fire, and sending them into the enemy camp. I only need to find a way to include a dust explosion...

I once caused a massive riot in the City of Ghouls by scattering a large quantity of rats.

As for Samson himself, the DMG offers the concept of Boons, which can be taken away by a deity if they so desire it (p. 228). I think representing Samson's strength would probably be best represented by that. Maybe you need to enhance it in some manner, because it only increases stats by 2.

While Paladin and Cleric might make sense if Samson actually lived up to the ideas he swore to, as was mentioned, he barely qualified and would be better as a martial class.

[AstralFire]

Thought: Wouldn't a Barbarian who was a failed *Monk* make more sense than a failed Paladin or Cleric? The skillsets are more closely related.

[Laserlight]

Definitely "Barbarian". "Paladin" would tend to imply that he kept his vows. Or at least some of them. Or, you know, any of them at all....

His divine power was Strength, and possibly invulnerability. Bear Totem Barbarian will do that. Paladin abilities like Divine Sense, Lay On Hands, and Spellcasting don't appear applicable.

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Real-world religion and religious figures are not an appropriate topic of discussion here, even when it intersects with gaming. Sorry.