View Full Version : Binder-another Warlock?

2007-03-29, 05:54 AM
I just got ToM, and I've painfully gotten to understand the pact rules. The class looks insanely cool for a heavy rollplayer who can't get by with a limited spells per day, and dosen't have psionics.

But the thing is, I felt this way about Warlock when I got it. Then I saw on this board that warlocks were about as powerful as a commoner. SO, I pitch my question.

Binder: Under, Uberunder, Cheeseface, Over, or balanced?

Lord Tataraus
2007-03-29, 06:06 AM
First of all, don't believe what you hear on the boards about "such-and-such class is the crappiest class in the world". Warlock is a great class if played right and an amazing endurance caster. With that said, I would suggest you try out the class before making such aspumtions (sp?). As for binder, I have not played it but I too thought it would be an amazing rp class with cool abilities thrown in. Unfortunately, I DM and none of my players could handle it that well except my dysfunctional optimizer (long story). One thing I suggest is to take in other people's opions, but test out the class neverless since it peaked your interest and see if it is any good. Like I always say, you can never judge a class based on others' experience because everone will (or should) play it differently.

Now for some questions: How worried are you that this class is underpowered? Overpowered? How much does this matter in your games? (example: so DMs are ruthless and underpowered/overpowered will be killed instanly for ine reason or another) If you don't care too much about the power level play it any, it will be worth it.

2007-03-29, 06:16 AM
Significantly less powerful than any of the primary casters to which it will be inevitably compared, but still competitive with classes like monk, bard, paladin, etc.

The problem with the warlock is that it's an archer with a few tricks up it's sleeve, and unlimited uses per day of powers that aren't all that good. Having played one for 11 levels, I'd say they're a lot of fun in a campaign that emphasizes larger numbers of lower level encounters over the one or two big monsters. They're also cool because you can spider climb or fly for 24 hours without stopping. Which is nifty but not all that powerful.

Unfortunately, I've talked to several people IRL and on the boards that only see the first part of that about unlimited powers and go 'OMG uber, NERF NERF NERF!!11!!one' in a frothing, embarrassing mess. These are usually but not always the same people who think psionics are broken because you can 'go nova' and blow all your power points on one thing (which is patently false). No way to make 'em happy I suppose.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-29, 09:57 AM
The Binder, on the other hand, is a master of versatility and doesn't suffer from a lot of the same problems that hte warlock does simply because his powers are unique, not renamed wizard spells.

It's balanced around where the rogue is, really.

2007-03-29, 10:00 AM
Binders are not weak. They are not game shattering, but again, no one should be.

Besides, binding Karsus to yourself is just too fun.

"Hey, you, like, tried to become a god, right? Before Mystryl kicked your ass?"

2007-03-29, 10:00 AM
I concur with the sentiments that Pact Magic is fairly well balanced. In the homebrew I'm finishing making its the only form of magic.

2007-03-29, 10:04 AM
I am making it a prerequisite for magic. Like, you can cast spells of a certain level if you have a Vestige of that level or higher bound.

You can't get 5th level spells before 18th level or so, and you can't get 6th level spells before epic. Really balances things out.

Unless you have Anima Mage. Which I don't allow the PCs to use, but liberally let NPCs take levels in.

Wizards are gonna be mad at me for sure.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-29, 10:40 AM
In my homebrew setting, binders don't bind vestiges, they bind aspects of the gods.

Woot Spitum
2007-03-29, 11:05 AM
How can you pass up a class that allows you to bind yourself to the essence of The Duke of Disappointment? That has to go down as one of the more awesome abilities in existance.

2007-03-29, 11:54 AM
My favorite story comes from my player roleplaying the Binder's fluff way too much.

DM (Me): So everyone is done resting. What do you guys do now?

Binder: An armored figure returns to the camp.

The rest of the players: Let's kill it get treasure

Binder: Whoa its me!

DM (confused): Where did you get the full plate?

Binder: Uh, the internet?