The Malconvoker

[tadkins]

Really cool class. Lots of flavor, and the idea of being a master summoner of an army of fiends even as a good guy is pretty appealing. Really gives a roguish flavor to a spellcasting class, what with their need for high Bluff.

Some people I've talked to are rather against the class though, and I'm wondering how the people of the Playground feel about it. Understandable arguments against it I suppose, with the idea of summoning evil creatures without an alignment shift being a cop-out. They also face the same prejudice as a necromancer would, in that commanding a horde of monsters would slow down a game. Would you as a DM allow the class into a game, or you as a player play alongside one?

As a side note, does anyone know if something similar exists in Pathfinder?

[Kahlendrrari]

Master Summoner Arch-type, it focuses less on the eidolon, and more on the summon monster abilities gained through leveling up.

[RoboEmperor]

Malconvoker ain't awesome. It's just above average. I personally wouldn't go malconvoker because it requires a high bluff, and you lose a spellcasting level. Higher level summon > 2 lower level summons, and access to higher spells > everything else. If you don't invest heavily in bluff then you lose out on 90% of the benefits the class gives.

But that's strictly from a high-op point of view. I've heard that malconvoker is too powerful for a mid-op game, so ask what level of optimization your group is going for.

Malconvoker bogging down combat shouldn't be an issue because your summons last rounds per level.

It also depends on how much you're going to rely on planar binding. A malconvoker wizard has access to planetars at level 12. Planetars are really powerful fighters who also has the spellcasting ability of a level 17 cleric. That means you have access to every single cleric spell in the game at level 12. This actually puts malconvoker in the insanely high-op group.

So... promise not to use planar binding like that, and you should be fine. Summoners are just average at best.

[tadkins]

Sorcerer Malconvokers shouldn't have an issue with keeping Bluff high. But then again, one wouldn't be playing a Sorcerer in a really high-op game to begin with, right?

[Andezzar]

I like that class as well and have no problems with it. The conjurer/malconvoker has no more alignment restrictions than a straight conjurer, so there is no cop out. A cleric/malconvoker that is neutral on the moral alignment axis and follows a deity that is also neutral on the moral alignment axis can also use [evil] spells even before taking levels in the PrC. The only benefit they get is that their alignment won't change if they spam [evil] spells.

I don't think getting a greater variety of summons somehow restricts or stunts roleplaying. What actually makes the roleplaying more interesting is the cleric/malconvoker's ability to bind outsiders (and screw himself over in the process). Corrupting agents of gods might be more pleasing to fiends than the average wizard.

As for the prejudice, the malconvoker need not advertise his status and not everyone can tell an erinyes from a solar if they even get to see the malconvoker summon the devil.

[RoboEmperor]

Sorcerer Malconvokers shouldn't have an issue with keeping Bluff high. But then again, one wouldn't be playing a Sorcerer in a really high-op game to begin with, right?

Sorcerer malconvokers are also an entire spell level behind wizards, which makes them even not viable for mid-op unless you're really gunning for the level 14 planetar access.

[Vhaidara]

Sorcerer malconvokers are also an entire spell level behind wizards, which makes them even not viable for mid-op unless you're really gunning for the level 14 planetar access.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Mid OP can get away with half casting. Even losing a level, you still get 9ths.

Malconvoker gives you access to free strengthened summons with longer durations, and bonuses for planar binding.

[Andezzar]

It's probably a question what you consider mid-op.

[atemu1234]

Level of mindbender with your conjurer ones. Done.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Mid OP can get away with half casting. Even losing a level, you still get 9ths.

Malconvoker gives you access to free strengthened summons with longer durations, and bonuses for planar binding.

Plus, either a free twin spell or empowered spell when summoning evil creatures, depending on if you're summoning off of the level of the spell you used or a lower version.

The class is one of the few where the lost level is worth it.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I've loved it ever since I read this (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1131936). I don't feel the whole "being able to summon evil dudes" is a cop-out, since it only really applies to clerics and the idea of someone of such pure intent being able to force evil creatures to work for good is pretty awesome.

[BWR]

I detest the class. Either summoning evil things is evil in itself or it isn't - a PrC doesn't suddenly alter the fundemental nature of morality in the multiverse.

[Vhaidara]

I detest the class. Either summoning evil things is evil in itself or it isn't - a PrC doesn't suddenly alter the fundemental nature of morality in the multiverse.

Well, it does when you're dealing with the explicit exception. The entire point of malconvoker is that you are using evil to fight evil. Hell, the fluff even mentions that most followers of good (clerics and pallys) will still try to kill malconvokers.

[RoboEmperor]

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Mid OP can get away with half casting. Even losing a level, you still get 9ths.

Malconvoker gives you access to free strengthened summons with longer durations, and bonuses for planar binding.

Yeah, it depends on your definition of mid-op.

High-op for me is some really game breaking crazy stuff. Stone to flesh = animate-able corpses. PaO one corpse into another. Shapechange zodars. Planar bind efreetis, nerveskitter + craft contingency

Mid-op for me is the most optimized standard play. So focused conjuration specialist with the best spells picked, and no crazy stuff.

Low-op is everything else. Gishes fall into this category. You reach level 9 spells at level 20... yeah... that ain't optimized. Also, greater dispel magic will make you almost worthless. Persistent wraith strike + very powerful defense against dispel magic would push the gish up to mid-op.

For sorcerers, it's really bad that you get 9th level spells at level 18, but now it's pushed back to 19... and you'll only get 2 spells known at 20... so it doesn't fit in my mid-op definition XD.

[Vhaidara]

Ah, you forgot T-OP. That's what your high is. Then high is your mid, mid is your low, and low is things like the Weapon Focus line.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I detest the class. Either summoning evil things is evil in itself or it isn't - a PrC doesn't suddenly alter the fundemental nature of morality in the multiverse.


I don't know, but that sounds pretty par for the course as far wizards are concerned.