Sorcerer Modification

[Reinboom]

The Sorcerer, in my opinion, lacks far behind the wizard. Also, because the group I play with uses a spell point system (Unearthed Arcana), this makes the Sorcerer pitiful in comparison to it's arcane casting cousin.
So, I'm trying to build a new Sorcerer using the basic design of the last one, trying to cover these aspects:
The Sorcerer is -Different- from the wizard, it uses it's spells differently.
The Sorcerer has fewer spells, but the spells it has it is more in tune with.
The Sorcerer is more in tune with natural bodily, inherited, magic.

Given this, the sorcerer should be able to enhance the potency of the spells they have, but not change them very easily (ie: metamagic). Since the metamagic restriction is already there, I'm trying to emphasize on the potency part and the natural spell parts.

Edit:
Ok, this tests out well! It provides everything I aimed for, and a bit extra flavor to boot.

Class Info:

Eschew Materials: As the Eschew Materials feat (PHB pg.94).

Arcane Affinity n: (n = spell level)
nth level spells cast by a sorcerer with Arcane Affinity n are enhanced. These spells are cast as though the sorcerer was 2 levels higher. For number of damage dice or other level scaled effect, this increases a spells limit by 2 levels as well. For example, the normal limit of the number of missiles produced by magic missile is 5, however, a sorcerer with Arcane Affinity 1, could effectively cast 6 missiles at level 9.

Spell DC: At level 6 and every 6 levels thereafter, all spells cast by the sorcerer has their save DC increased by 1.

Magical Regeneration: A level 8 sorcerer with magical regeneration is in tune with this energy in a way that allows the magic to restore the sorcerer. As long as a sorcerer is at least stable (not dying), the sorcerer has fast healing 1. This healing is suppressed while the sorcerer is in an antimagic area of any kind but is not suppressed by dispel like effects. At levels 14 and 20 the fast healing increases to 2 and 3 respectively.

Neosorcerer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Eschew Materials|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Arcane Affinity 1|6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4||6|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Arcane Affinity 2|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Spell DC +1|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Arcane Affinity 3|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Magical Regeneration 1|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Arcane Affinity 4|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7||6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Arcane Affinity 5|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Spell DC +2|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Arcane Affinity 6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9|Magical Regeneration 2|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|Arcane Affinity 7|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Arcane Affinity 8|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Spell DC +3|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Arcane Affinity 9|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Magical Regeneration 3|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6

[/table]




Original Idea:

First, this is blatantly too powered, this shows the two different routes I was using. I will either go straight "special abilities" or special abilities + 1 or 2 Spell DC increases.
Another thing I wish to emphasize is the, make a person consider not taking a prestige class without sacrificing something. As it stands, there is almost no reason to not prestige ASAP (by level 6) as a sorcerer.

The increases in skills/skill points is to try to allow the sorcerer to have a bit more various options, especially since they aren't an int class.

With the special abilities, I wish to emphasize their innate/inherited nature of magic while providing somewhat unique aspects to the class.

May I get opinions?

Class table:

'Neo'Sorcerer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2||5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3||6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4||6|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Special Ability|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Spell DC +1|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5||6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6||6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6||6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Special Ability|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7||6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Spell DC +2|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8||6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9||6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|Special Ability|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Spell DC +3|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Special Ability|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6

[/table]

Class Information/Abilities:

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d4
Class Skills:
Bluff (Cha) , Concentration (Con) , Craft (Int) , Diplomacy (Cha) , Intimidate (Cha) , Knowledge(arcana) (Int) , Profession (Wis) , Sleight of Hand (Dex) , and Spellcraft (Int) .
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Special Ability: At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, the Sorcerer may choose an ability from the following list:

Eschew Materials: As the Eschew Materials feat (PHB pg.94).

Spell Focus: As the Spell Focus feat (PHB pg.100). You must be have at least 10 sorcerer class levels in order to take this as a special ability.

Worldy Training: The sorcerer is a master at rapid application of their arcane talents, this alongside with the inherited aspect of their spellcasting abilities allows them to still gain spells while exploring different classes. A sorcerer with Worldy Training gains +1 level in spells per day and caster level of her sorcerer class levels for every 3 levels she has of classes that does not already contribute to her sorcerer spells per day.

Magical Regeneration: Magical energy runs through the sorcerer's blood constantly, always contributing to the sorcerer of which it resides. A sorcerer with magical regeneration is in tune with this energy in a way that allows the magic to restore the sorcerer. As long as a sorcerer is at least stable (not dying), the sorcerer has fast healing 1. This healing is suppressed while the sorcerer is in an antimagic area of any kind but is not suppressed by dispel like effects. This ability may be chosen multiple times, each time increasing the fast healing rate by 1.

Arcane Intuition: The sorcerer has a different way to handle their arcane abilities, giving them a seamless application of arcane power into non arcane tasks. A sorcerer with arcane intuition may spend a spell slot as a swift action to gain a bonus to the next made skill check of twice the spent spell slot's level. This cannot be used with the spellcraft checks of epic spells or while in an antimagic area. You must have at least 15 sorcerer class levels in order to take this as a special ability.

Inherited Wings: The sorcerer can become in touch with his ancestory utilizing the flight aspect of many magical ancestors. The sorcerer chooses either feathered (angelic), bat-like (demonic), or draconic style wings - of which causes them to manifest themselves out of the sorcerer's back allowing the sorcerer to fly at a speed of 60 feet (good maneuverability). These wings honor the sorcerer's ancestry if it was already defined earlier. You must have at least 15 sorcerer class levels in order to take this as a special ability.

Energy Resistance: The sorcerer becomes more immune or bearing to the elements of which they command or resist. The sorcerer gains resistance 5 to the basic energy types (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic).

[Starsinger]

I like it, but Sorcerer's my favorite class, so I'm a bit biased.

[Innis Cabal]

honestly....look to the favored soul, it is what the sorcerer should be. Take away the weapon focus and perhaps add a metamagic ability, perhaps let them quicken....oh and i love your sig and avatar, Fate/Stay and Fate/Hollow Ataraxia forever

[Jack_Simth]

Agreed that the UA spell points system makes the Sorcerer rather pointless; the sorcerer in the UA spell points system has enough spell points to cast the highest level spell the Sorcerer knows exactly one more time than the Wizard/Cleric/Druid can. When you add to that the fact that, for the most part, the Wizard's Spells Per Day is greater than the Sorcerer's spells known (exceptions being first level, and lower-level spells... and a Specialist Wizard only ever has that problem for cantrips), and that the Wizard gets to swap out spells known on a daily basis, and the Wizard gets higher level spells sooner, the Sorcerer is mechanically hosed relative to the Wizard.

[Reinboom]

The favored soul is a powerhouse O.o
However, arcane spells > divine so there would need to much more than just changing divine back to arcane.
Comparing a favored soul to a sorcerer to me would be like trying to match a cleric to a wizard.
I do like the wings idea. Making that a 15th or higher special ability would be a nice touch.
Added a couple of special abilites.

[knightsaline]

how about for the skills problem creating a feat called "charismatic learning" that allows you to substitute CHA instead of INT for determining skillpoints. the sorc would get this as a bonus feat at 1st level. and it can only be taken at first level. here, I'll even write it up for you

Charismatic learner
You seemed to be able to charm information from your tutors while you were growing up.
Benefit: you may use your CHA modifier instead of INT for determining skillpoints.
Special: you may only take this feat at 1st level. Sorcerers gain this feat at 1st level as a bonus feat.

[Reinboom]

I like the concept, though, I dislike the implied flavor of the feat.
A quick rewrite:

Personality Training
Your charismatic aspect tends to make you favor getting things done correctly to keep your image healthy rather than by training with intellectual motifs.
Benefit: You gain bonus skills by Cha instead of Int. This applies to your starting skill points as well.
Special: You may only take this feat at 1st level. Sorcerer's may take this feat in place of their 1st levels special ability only if it's also that character's first class level.

Tried to reword it to make it less confusing of "what if I take 3 levels in this other class than 1 level of sorcerer?".

[Tim4488]

Diplomacy, but no Intimidate? Intimidate should come easier to a Sorceror than Diplomacy, honestly.

"The blood of dragons flows in my veins, and I wield arcane might" yields more "okay okay whatever you want!" than "that seems like a fair proposal."

Not saying take away Diplomacy, just saying add Intimidate. Maybe Knowledge (The Planes), too, I've always felt lack of that was a weakness of the Sorceror class (high level spellcasters tend to be dealing with the outer planes one way or another).

[Reinboom]

mmn, I agree, just not on the exact premises.
This is suggesting that all Sorcerer's come from dragons - which - they don't. They can be fiend born, exalted born, etc.
Someone who had an ancestor of 30 generations passed who was a celestial wouldn't be inclined to use it necessarily to intimidate if it awakened.
Knowledge(The Planes), is subjective as well, though it could describe a sorcerer's homage.
Unsure of it.

[Latronis]

I run sorcerers as:

Remove diplomacy
Add intimidate
Add Use Magic Device, with a level based bonus
can only use magic items without UMD that match their spell list

Remove familiar

Eschew Materials @ lv1
Can spend exp in place of costly material components
Bonus Ancestral\Heritage Feat at lvs 5, 10, 15, 20.

Spellcasting unchanged

Don't have a clue how it'd interact with a spellpoint system though

[Fizban]

Well, here's a link (http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/the_spell_points_page.htm) to a different spell points/day chart. His reasoning is that up until level 10 or so, the UA chart gives the total spell point cost of the usual spells per day, but after level 10 starts arbitrarily taking away points. So he totaled up the spell points for all spell slots himself. If my wording makes any sense.

The sorcerer class on that site has some nifty abilities, though they don't help all that much (reversible spells sounds good, but there aren't all that many pairs to choose from), and he decided to take away their use of spell trigger items by limiting them to the spells on their known list. The biggest change is that he lets them learn spells at odd levels, like the prepared casters.

[Macrovore]

wait...why do you need to be 10th lvl to get spell focus, but you only need to be 5th lvl to get fast healing 1? I would think that fast healing is a MUCH more powerful ablility than spell focus, even for a sorc.

btw, do these sorcs have the same spells known?

[Baron Corm]

i'd pick some of the special abilities and make them class features. if they aren't good enough that everyone would choose them, the sorceror is still worse than the wizard. my picks:

1. Worldly Training (granted at level 5). i suggest changing it to: when the sorceror takes a level of a class that grants spontaneous arcane spellcasting progression at any level in the class, he gains spellcasting progression at all levels of that class.

sorcerors are behind in spellcasting progression and worse otherwise than wizards from the start, so i don't think this is unbalancing. it is, in fact, quite balancing. most would still take wizard for classes that granted full progression anyway (which are most of the best ones).

2. Magical Regeneration (granted at level 10). i can't cite any precedent for innately magical creatures getting fast healing just cause, but on the other hand, this does add some flavor to the sorceror class. i like it.

3. arcane intuition (granted instead of familiar at level 1). we all know no one likes familiars, and this seems like a level 1 ability. it's not like another caster would lose a casting level just to gain this, so i'm not worried about dipping.

4. a level 15th sorceror has learned to metamagic on the fly

5. nothing at level 20. they get level 9 spells, sheesh



i'd take out inherited wings and energy resistance; you don't have to make this a favored soul copy. eschew materials could be granted as a bonus feat at first level just because wizards get scribe scroll. spell focus... well you're already giving spell DC bonuses. wizards are the focused ones; i don't see the need to grant spell focus.

[Innis Cabal]

level 15 they can metamagic on the fly? I would say they can at the start, its kinda silly they cant cast quicken, actually...its plain stupid.

[Reinboom]

Interesting ideas.
Ok, restating my biggest fit with a sorcerer:

With the traditional sorcerer, as is, in the PHB, there is absolutely NO reason to stay apast level 6. None, 0, zip, nadda... besides the requirements for certain classes, but even then, they aren't too high of requirements.
If you take a level of a class that gives +1 level of existing arcane casting, at level 7 that has a good save in will. You only gain. Your saves will still be the same, none lost, BAB will be exactly the same, but your Will would improve by 2 -and- you gain whatever special ability that class has to offer.

Thus, my goal isn't to necessarily offer special things to the sorcerer early on, but to give a reason to stay as a sorcerer while still being a base class.
One large tactic I see to doing this is breaking the "6" levels by providing at 1 or 2 higher.
For example, give Fast Healing 1 at 8.

So, any given special ability to level 6 or lower will have to be simple.
I should raise the fast healing start.

As for Worldy Training, I'll agree to level 2. It's point is to give class options, allows sorcerers to multi class more freely, not necessarily just enhance their spell casting. Giving it at level 1, however, would mean somebody could, say run a rogue class with 1 dip in sorcerer with this, and be able to buff themselves as well as provide basic spells (mage armor, true strike) upon themselves quickly. Possibly even make this a level 3 skill?

Reworking the table:
Neosorcerer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Eschew Materials|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Worldly Training|6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4||6|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4||6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5||6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5||6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Magical Regeneration 1|6|6|7|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6||6|6|7|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Spell DC +1|6|6|7|7|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7||6|6|7|7|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8||6|6|7|7|7|5|3|—|—|—

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Magical Regeneration 2|6|6|7|7|7|6|4|—|—|—

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9||6|6|7|7|7|7|5|3|—|—

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9||6|6|7|7|7|7|6|4|—|—

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Inherited Wings|6|6|7|7|7|7|7|5|3|—

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Magical Regeneration 3|6|6|7|7|7|7|7|6|4|—

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11||6|6|7|7|7|7|7|7|5|3

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11||6|6|7|7|7|7|7|7|6|4

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Spell DC +2|6|6|7|7|7|7|7|7|7|6

[/table]

[Fax Celestis]

Drop Inherited Wings, and the Spell DC boosts, and give it 3/4 BAB.

[Innis Cabal]

if they are born of dragons and other magical creatures i dont see why they cant have wings

[Cybren]

5. nothing at level 20. they get level 9 spells, sheesh

1) uhmmm sorcs get 9th level spells starting at level 18.
2) Sooooo basically you want them to just PRC out for one level anyway?

[Clementx]

Most of the flavorful/mechanical fixes for the sorcerer have already been made, in the form of feats like Draconic/Fiendish/Celestial Heritage, Rapid Metamagic, etc. I would just give them bonus feats at lvl1, 6, 12, and 18, picking from a list composed of those if you want to go the cool special ability way.

What I do is give them a couple more class skills and Arcane Knack- at 1st and every fourth level, they pick a skill (Conc, Knowledge, Spellcraft) to get a +2 bonus, picking a new one or improving their bonus as they get new levels. It works out to effectively having 3 + Int skill points, which is just enough to make them better, and give them some class features besides a familiar.

[Innis Cabal]

and that makes it worth playing over wizard how?

[McFayne]

To the suggestion of giving sorc 3/4 BAB, I don't think this is necessarily supposed to be a more martially-minded version of the sorc, just one that is a lot more interesting than the PHB Sorc...considering that one really does suck eggs. It is still a full caster, just one that goes about doing things differently than a wizard.

[Reinboom]

To the suggestion of giving sorc 3/4 BAB, I don't think this is necessarily supposed to be a more martially-minded version of the sorc, just one that is a lot more interesting than the PHB Sorc...considering that one really does suck eggs. It is still a full caster, just one that goes about doing things differently than a wizard.

That is indeed near my goal.

For not giving something at level high levels (20):
That would be self-defeating somewhat, since level 18 is the last break off point. (all class breakoff points are usually in intervals of 6 due to how saves work, so 6, 12, and 18 - as well as for BAB)

[Starsinger]

I love it! Although Sorcerer level 3 is still excruciatingly painful, particularly if there's a wizard in the party as well, lording his new level 2 spells over you, but it's a great Sorcerer fix.

[Baron Corm]

there's still no reason to do anything but sorceror 10/prestige classes 10 with that remake. the fly spell works wonders in place of wings...+2 fast healing (when you already have +1) and +1 spell DC's are dwarfed by what PrCs give you.

the best way to make it useful all the way to 20 is to come up with some sort of unique and flavorful abilities, like ones that might be granted from a prestige class, or even a base class which actually has flavor such as all the other ones except fighter and wizard. "natural spellcaster" makes for a pretty bland class. i suppose that is the main problem.

although, the folks at wizards aren't complete morons. fighter, wizard, and most of all sorceror were probably the base classes that were meant to be multiclassed out of. personally, i think sorceror should be left alone. take some of those sorceror-specific feats if you like the dragonblood flavor. hey, take it to level 20 if that's your fancy, it's not like 20 sorceror is an underpowered build.

[Fizban]

The problem isn't so much that the sorcerer (or wizard) lacks class features, it's that so many prestige classes have no cost. Unless you give them class features nearly as powerful as spellcasting, there will still be no reason to not PrC out. If all the caster PrC's cost one or two levels of casting, then there would be plenty of reason to stay single classed.

[Reinboom]

The problem isn't so much that the sorcerer (or wizard) lacks class features, it's that so many prestige classes have no cost. Unless you give them class features nearly as powerful as spellcasting, there will still be no reason to not PrC out. If all the caster PrC's cost one or two levels of casting, then there would be plenty of reason to stay single classed.

Actually, what if the sorcerer had a few choice benefits, then had at level... letsay.. 13 it gave +1 additional level of spellcasting to itself. Then at 17 it gave another.
This would mean it obtains level 9 spells at the same time wizards do (17), and then something more for staying sorcerer.
This is also something that would mean staying sorcerer would be higher spellcasting abilities than taking a prestige class.

[McFayne]

Are you suggesting a class ability that effectively gives them an additional caster level, or that their spell progression gets weird for a few levels? I'd imagine it's the first, but I'm curious of how you were going to do it.

[Reinboom]

a class ability that increases their spell progression.
This means that if you went straight level 13 sorcerer, you will be looking at the level 14 list.
If you reach level 17, you will be looking at the level 19 list. (+2 additional levels)

With this route, you reach level 9 spells as quickly as a wizard but only if you don't prestige out, or only do so after you reach level 13. (which is near what I was aiming for, incentive to at least hold more than 6 levels of sorcerer and make it not entirely useless to go to level 20 on it)

[Starsinger]

I like that idea. My group doesn't even acknowledge that base classes have more than 6 levels anymore, let alone 10. They're prestige obsessed.

[Yakk]

Left field idea:

Give the sorcerer two kinds of spells. The first are her "native" spells. Casting a "native" spell does not consume spell points, but you cannot cast another "native" spell for 1d4 rounds after you cast a "native" spell. You cannot cast "native" spells using spell points.

"Native" spells cannot repair damage, create perm. matter, or have a perm. duration. All of a sorcerers "native" spells must be from one school.

The second are the spells she knows normally. These can come from any school.

Restrict how many spells the sorcerer knows even further.

Reduce the spells/day and/or spell points.

Grant the sorcerer metamagic points. These points can only be spent on metamagic.

Give the Sorcerer new spell levels at the same time that Wizards get them.

Sorcerer spells known:
1+0/1+0
1+1/1+0
1+1/1+0/1+0
1+1/1+1/1+0
1+1/1+1/1+0/1+0
1+1/1+1/1+1/1+0
etc, where X+Y means "X spells known, Y spells native".

Free Metamagic points:
1
2
4
6
9
12
etc. (at level X, you gain free metamagic points equal to the highest level spell you know)

You cannot boost a spell higher than your highest spell level+1 via these free metamagic points.

This sorcerer has an extremely restricted spell list. Half of her spells are from one domain, and can be cast every 1d4 rounds. The other half draw from a puny (half the size of a wizard) spell point pool.

The "full round" restriction for metamagic is discarded.

The sorcerer gains a metamagic feat every odd level.

The sorcerer learns how to wear armor over time. She gains light armor proficiency at 2nd level, shield proficiency at 4th level, medium armor proficiency at 8th level and heavy armor proficiency at 16th level. At 6th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 18th and 20th level, the sorcerer may pick a martial weapon to gain proficiency in (every even level that the sorcerer does not gain an armor proficiency). If the sorcerer gains an armor proficiency that she already has, or gains the the armor proficiency from another source, she may substitute proficiency in a martial weapon. If the sorcerer gains proficiency in all martial weapons from some other class, she may substitute exotic weapon proficiencies and/or weapon focus for an individual weapon for her martial weapon proficiencies.

How is that for a different flavour of sorcerer?

(The gradual gain of armor and weapon proficiencies reflects that the sorcerer, as she adventures and gains power, spends time working on her combat skills: with her knack, armor and weapons restrict her ability to cast spells far less than the wizard, and her lack of the deep power pool that the wizard has means that she learns to fall back on physical might.)

Do the UMD-as-class-skill rule as well -- you can only use magic items whose spells you know (either native or standard known) -- other spells you have to use UMD to cast.

The goal of all of this is to change a "wizard with a different flavour text" to a different class -- a class that casts spells through her knack, and relies on other abilities when her knack gives out.

The half-spell-points and massively-restircted-spell-list mean that this sorcerer has room for lots of other abilities (metamagic points, native spells, slow gain of armor/weapons skills). At the same time, you have access to the same circle of spells as a wizard...

[Reinboom]

Nice way to reflect what you want to reflect, though I don't agree with the 1 school of magic for natural spell - after all, it's a school of magic.
This seams also to be a bit too much bookkeeping when actually used to me, perhaps you could develop that into another separate sorcerer alt? More threads of options for people who want to have an improved sorcerer.

[Latronis]

A thematic native spell list could work

but the native spell list belonging to one school is a little odd

Furthermore i really don't like sorcerers taking metamagic from wizards, metamagic always to me implies knowledge and learning of how to get the most out of a spell hence why wizards can take metamagic feats as bonus feats and sorcerers can't.

The other point i'd like to make is that i prefer the sorcerer getting the top end spells a little slower, wizards have institutions and other wizard to learn how to cast sorcerers power is from within so they have to rely more upon themselves.

That said i wouldn't be adverse to bit of a caster level boost so that while they have less spells, they do have a touch more oomph

[Yakk]

Bookkeeping:
1d4 for how many rounds until a new natural spell can be cast. Just keep a die in front of you, decremented every round.

A pool of metamagic points that can be spent.
A pool of spell points that can be spent on spells.

Two lists of spells, each one spell per level. (less than a wizard).
A list of up to 6 martial weapons that the sorcerer knows.

The idea behind the "natural spell is from one school":
The schools of magic are not just arbitrary, but reflect fundamental characteristics of magic itself.

By restricting all of the sorcerers natural spells to one school it makes the ability weaker, and gives each sorcerer a bit of flavour. An evocation sorcerer is different than a transmutation sorcerer.

Wizards become people who studied the natural magics of a sorcerer, and systemized it. They trap the spells inside glyphs and runes, memorize the trap, then use the trap to cast the spell.

...

What is missing is flavour text to change spells. Once per level, a sorcerer should be able to spent a week consuming a charge from a magical device (scroll or wand or equivilent) to change one of her known/native spells into the spell from that device. (this lets the sorcerer fix bad spell choices at low levels)

...

The Sorcerer has natural contact with magic -- to her, casting a spell is like swinging a sword or skipping. Doing instinctive actions with a slight twist is easy. Skipping faster is still skipping, and swinging low is still swinging a sword.

On the other hand, the Wizard learns by rote the glyphs and runes that trap a spell and bind it to his bidding. Changing the glyphs and runes in order to bend the magical effect requires study and care: the new effect, while not a completely different spell, is not the same spell.

The interpritation I get is that the Sorcerer is the "true spellcaster", while the Wizard is someone who learnt at the knee from someone who stole the secret of magic from the Sorcerer. Hence, the varient Sorcerer above.

...

Basically, before hand the sorcerer's advantage was significantly more spells/day, and only slightly fewer spells availiable at any one time.

The Wizard got bonus metamagic feats and 1 level faster spell progression, but fewer spells/day. The Wizard had to carefully pick not only which spells to have availiable, but how many copies of each spell: if you needed to Knock twice, having one Knock spell memorized was no good.

A specialist wizard gained nearly the spells/day of a sorcerer, in exchange for losing a school or two of magic and having a small selection for some of her spells. (usually 1 less spell per spell circle)

With spellpoints, the Wizard only has to memorize each spell once -- this is a large boost to the Wizard's spells availiable to cast. The difference in spellpoints is also seemingly smaller.

So the existing approach doesn't work. :)

BTW, I took the "gains armor and weapon proficiencies" idea from the sig of the warrior-woman (what if that was a sorcerer?) and/or the fantasy "dark sorcerer" who wanders around in plate. Sure, she would have to cast all of her spells using the still spell metamagic feat: but, in exchange, she can out-fight a L 10 Warrior.

[Reinboom]

edit:
I was posting this while you where posting what you said.
The "warrior woman", Dark Saber, from the Fate/Stay Night PC game, is not a sorcerer and all her 'powers' stem from her history and her sword. Giving anymore information would warrant a spoiler tag.
Also, the replacing bad spell choices is already in the game, you just have to be significantly higher level to replace the spells.
I don't see a sorcerer also as being in tune with magical devices much, after all, magical devices are creations, fabrications of wizards bending magic in ways to be held by once non magical mechanisms or sticks. Very non natural in terms of magic to me.


Hmmn, that idea of the more 'oomph' reflects more back to what my original idea was.
Though, I have another for an ability that sorcerers could obtain, scalable.

Arcane Affinity n: (n = spell level)
nth level spells cast by a sorcerer with Arcane Affinity n are enhanced. These spells are cast as though the sorcerer was 2 levels higher. For number of damage dice or other level scaled effect, this increases a spells limit by 2 levels as well. For example, the normal limit of the number of missiles produced by magic missile is 5, however, a sorcerer with Arcane Affinity 1, could effectively cast 6 missiles at level 9.

Perhaps mixing this with the magical regeneration since that seams to be well received and the spell DC.
Then with this tree:
Neosorcerer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Eschew Materials|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Arcane Affinity 1|6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4||6|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Arcane Affinity 2|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Spell DC +1|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Arcane Affinity 3|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Magical Regeneration 1|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Arcane Affinity 4|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7||6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Arcane Affinity 5|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Spell DC +2|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Arcane Affinity 6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9|Magical Regeneration 2|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|Arcane Affinity 7|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Arcane Affinity 8|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Spell DC +3|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Arcane Affinity 9|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Magical Regeneration 3|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6

[/table]

This would also mean in order to get that 17d6 fireball or lightning bolt eventually, a person would need to stay sorcerer till level 7 - which works out perfectly!

[CASTLEMIKE]

Pretty nice so far. The standard fix seemed to be D6, Eschew Materials, 4 SPs with Diplomacy as a skill and depending on the campaign No ASF in light armor.

I would have the Educated or Collegiate (Collegiate Wizard doubles known spells for wizard spell books in low magic campaigns which is kind of what the sorcerer is) Sorcerer Feat like the Wilder:

It basically adds 4 "Expanded Knowledge" Powers in lieu of Volatile Mind benefits increasing known powers from 11 at level 20 to 15 at level 20 leveling up over a 35% known spell increase. So say a Bonus known spell at every 3 levels.

Another option is to give sorcerers a Dragon #315 Heritage domain or the Druidic ability to Summon Natures Ally spontaneously or the Greyhawk Nexus Method for Summon Monsters.

Adding the MotAO Graduated 3 Part "Spell Pool" Feats to the class as a leveling up ability at levels 2 (1st-3rd arcane spells), 8 (4th-6th arcane spells), 14 (7th-9th arcane spells) and 20+ with the Epic Spell Casting Feat for High Level campaigns would do quite a bit for the class. The spellpool ability allows you to call up to half your sorcerer caster level (round up) in arcane spell levels a day. 5 spell levels total as a level 10 sorcerer and 6 spell levels as a level 11 level sorcerer. I would generally limit to the PHB standard known spells and consider adding the additional Adept spells based on the Waterdeep Guidl Mage PRC allowing Adepts to qualify for the PRC.

I liked the old Wujen +1 Freebie Customizing Spell Feats at every 3 levels or so as they really seemed in touch with the flavor and a nice meta bone to the sorcerer.

The Beguiler Class would be a nice template swapping out Beguiler spells for Sorcerer spells known D6, 6SPs, No ASF in light armor and better weapon selection and doing the same with the feats.

Another nice PRC class to model it after would be the Suel Arcanamach with D8 and 4SPs and Freebie personal spell extensions and +6 DC to spells.

A nice flavor option is the Adept Template for a +1 ECL or forfeiting that first level bonus feat in a leveling up campaign.

Adepts are common in all communities particularly Thorps, Hamlets and Villages where 90% of the populace live according to demographics. So the local Adept is probably be one of the people a young PC would be sent to once they started displaying their powers.

The Adept NPC class is based on a different primary spellcasting ability Wis. Nice lower level healing backup for the party particularly if no one likes playing clerics.

The Magewright Template from ECS will also work as it is based on Int and a so so spell list of moderately useful more general purpose spells than combat.

Hope tsome of that helped.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Easy fix for Sorcerers:

1) Eschew Materials as a free feat at level 1. They use innate ability rather than fiddly bits to make magic.

2) make the PhB II variant the standard. No familiar, but you get spontanious metamagic

3) Perhaps give him Detect Magic at will as a spell-like ability. Much less broken than the Paladin's Detect Evil at will, thematic, and fun.

4) High-end abilities don't matter. Nothing anyone would consider allowing as a base class is going to be more powerful than something like Sorc5/MotAO4/Ito7V7/AM4 or Sorc4/MotAO4/Incantatrix10/AM1.