Dragonfire adept, entangling exhalation, flyby attack, flyby breath

[graeylin]

I have a DFA with the flyby attack feat, flyby breath feat, and entangling exhalation feat.

My normal breath is a 2d6 line of fire. I fly 10'/r, perfect.

So, in a round, how much destruction can I do to a single target?

Each breath attack in a round would do 1d6 with the entangling exhalation feat, I believe. And, whomever I hit will take damage (they can save for half, but that's still damage). Then, they are entangled automatically, and lose -4 to dex, etc..

And since I can do this as a free action, lets say, 15 times a round... Does each free action require a reflex save for half damage? And does each one do the auto Dex loss? Can I hit someone a dozen times in a round, and their dex will be -48 at the end? Does each free action use lower their dex for the subsequent reflex save they need to make?

[Werephilosopher]

And since I can do this as a free action, lets say, 15 times a round...

You can only do it once per round, unless you have a way to get extra standard actions.


You do not gain any "extra" uses of your breath weapon.


And does each one do the auto Dex loss? Can I hit someone a dozen times in a round, and their dex will be -48 at the end? Does each free action use lower their dex for the subsequent reflex save they need to make?

Once someone is entangled, they are entangled. Subsequent attempts to entangle them don't stack.

[graeylin]

with the flyby breath feat, my breath weapon is used as a free action.

i can have a LOT of free actions in a round.

[Silva Stormrage]

with the flyby breath feat, my breath weapon is used as a free action.

i can have a LOT of free actions in a round.

Unfortunately even if DM were to rule that way (You have as many free actions as you want not 15) the feat states that you can only use the breath weapon once per round. Quoting "You can use your breath weapon as a free action, provided you do nothing else with your round but move". So it goes like this, if you use your breath weapon as a free action you can do NOTHING else in the round, even technically talk or breathe but I don't think thats what they were going for :smalltongue: (Then again maybe you can't breathe or talk because you are breathing fire on everything?).

If you use your breath weapon again you have taken an illegal turn because you have taken an action other than the first free action breath attack.

[graeylin]

Well, if i can do two things in a round, use my breath weapon and fly, then I do that.

I fly, which is a specific type of action (move).

And I use my breath weapon, which is a specific type of action (free).

by the rules, I can only do one or two move actions, but I can do a ton of free actions, so I do.

I am still doing the only two things the feat says I can do...breath weapon and moving.

I'm moving several feet, I'm breathing several times.

[Xerlith]

Aah, yess, Dragonlance Campaign Setting, the source of broken feats and poor wordings. It seems that, indeed, the unlimited free-action breathing is rules-legal. Expect your DM to nerf it to the ground the first time you use it.

RAI it's quite obvious this was meant to allow for double move and breathing, looking at the Strafing Breath feat:



When you use your breath weapon while flying (either with a single move, using the Flyby Attack feat, or with a double move, using the Flyby Breath feat) (...)

[MilesTiden]

Your statement doesn't actually refute Silva's at all. It's not 'you can only move or use your breath weapon', it's 'you can use your breath weapon as a free action, and then afterwards you can only move'. You only get one free action breath weapon, before the second restriction comes down, preventing you from doing anything but moving.

[Werephilosopher]

Well, if i can do two things in a round, use my breath weapon and fly, then I do that.

I fly, which is a specific type of action (move).

And I use my breath weapon, which is a specific type of action (free).

by the rules, I can only do one or two move actions, but I can do a ton of free actions, so I do.

I am still doing the only two things the feat says I can do...breath weapon and moving.

I'm moving several feet, I'm breathing several times.


It seems that, indeed, the unlimited free-action breathing is rules-legal.

No, it isn't. I repeat:


You do not gain any "extra" uses of your breath weapon.

The dragonfire adept's breath weapon is typically a standard action. In a given round, you may use your breath weapon as a free action a number of times equal to the number of standard actions you have that round. Going over that number means you are gaining "extra" uses of your breath weapon, which isn't permitted. If you want to use your breath weapon as a free action a dozen times in a round, you need to find a way to get a dozen standard actions in a round.

[Xerlith]

No, it isn't. I repeat:



The dragonfire adept's breath weapon is typically a standard action. In a given round, you may use your breath weapon as a free action a number of times equal to the number of standard actions you have that round. Going over that number means you are gaining "extra" uses of your breath weapon, which isn't permitted. If you want to use your breath weapon as a free action a dozen times in a round, you need to find a way to get a dozen standard actions in a round.

DFA's breath is "At will as a standard action". Flyby Breath changes standard to free, so now it reads "at will as a free action". Yeah, poor design right here.

[graeylin]

Additional uses is not additional attacks.

"Uses" refers (in every case I've found in the books) to the number of times per day a breath weapon can be used. For instance, an air mephling can use his breath weapon 1/day at first level. With this feat, he can use it as a free action, but it gives no additional uses... so he can't use it twice a day or anything.

if something can breath lightning once/4 rounds (and let's say, fire the other three), this feat allows them to use the breath as a free action, but doesn't change the waiting period between for additional uses of the lightning.

[graeylin]

And yes, I fully expect my DM to neuter this.

However, my DM is allowing a hellbred tainted scholar, for example, so as long as I maintain some decorum in my use of free actions (let's say, somewhere less than 10), I don't think it's actually overpowered.

at 6th level, being able to do 10d6 damage (halved for entangling exhalation) with DC 18 reflex save for half isn't overpowered in a round.

Not when melee brutes are doing 60 to 90 points with their fists, and the hellbred tainted scholar has a casting stat in the 60's.

[Urpriest]

And yes, I fully expect my DM to neuter this.

However, my DM is allowing a hellbred tainted scholar, for example, so as long as I maintain some decorum in my use of free actions (let's say, somewhere less than 10), I don't think it's actually overpowered.

at 6th level, being able to do 10d6 damage (halved for entangling exhalation) with DC 18 reflex save for half isn't overpowered in a round.

Not when melee brutes are doing 60 to 90 points with their fists, and the hellbred tainted scholar has a casting stat in the 60's.

Where are you getting 10d6?

[graeylin]

The 10d6 number is just an arbitrary number of potential free actions in a round, halved because of the entangling exhalation feat.

Essentially, with other combatants in the game doing 60 to 90 points of damage with a standard action or full action attack, being able to do XXXX (set at a comparable level or so) damage in a round is not game breaking.

[Urpriest]

The 10d6 number is just an arbitrary number of potential free actions in a round, halved because of the entangling exhalation feat.

Essentially, with other combatants in the game doing 60 to 90 points of damage with a standard action or full action attack, being able to do XXXX (set at a comparable level or so) damage in a round is not game breaking.

Ok, how do you make sure your DM's action limit scales with your compatriots' damage then? How do you make sure it's balanced with the different debuff options?

[MilesTiden]

Also, it's still not a rules legal thing, as I've described above. You would basically have to let the DM rule that you can do this, and I don't think 'arbitrarily large damage' is going to be a thing most DMs will allow, even if you promise to keep it to a low amount. If they do let you, well, that's the DM's problem. It's only not gamebreaking because of an arbitrary restriction by you, and a willful ignoring of the wording. *shrug*

Anyways, at this point, it's straight up in 'ask your DM first' territory, there's nothing more we can really do.