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Zenogod
2014-12-21, 04:01 AM
NOTE: If any of the following links don't allow you to view them, please let me know! Google recently did an update to drive and some people have been able to view them, others not so much. The only fix I've found is to manually add in individual email addresses to the list of people that can view.

Hello everyone! I've been a lurker here for some time, and over the last few months I have endeavored to create a full conversion of Dragon Age for Pathfinder. To this end I have thus far created the following classes:
Mage = Sorcerer, so far started on the Dalish bloodline: Need to do Chasind, Circle, Apostate, Tevinter, and Qunari bloodlines. Does this list need to be trimmed? Expanded upon? Ideas?
Mage Prestige Classes: Arcane Warrior (https://docs.google.com/document/d/15TX79dul66Ksn2UVLlhHZU-LZfAJWneJ8mNrPYc9aoE/edit) (Finished), Battlemage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cuVuI-NMshT_l2WchCpn3a3OsaQqhdmj5N2WlyPPu9Q/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Blood Mage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jh8Y6oZx7VXdJG7zHX5rPbeGutCcNeJ9_W6XVlVzDgc/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Force Mage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19k7RRkcXCrr2iUl1DDN6Uhvikb86_43mGzwnze90sC4/edit) (WIP), Keeper (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Q06FQFF1g8s6MpGwc3g3Vp_Sa3FDOCMftx7hGPBN_A/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Shapeshifter (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CY6_5C_SU9NMlnh2UaCwxWDmOOg0AYGDY1DLaIBZT8Y/edit) (Finished), Spirit Healer (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nziyShe0iG1xG7CPqfLQZL6CGC9GctvOsQfhrxpzPLk/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished)- I have yet to start on Necromancer, Knight-Enchanter, or Rift Mage.

Warrior = Fighter: Perhaps need to make Archetypes for Chevaliers? What about other sorts of warriors in Dragon Age? Suggestions?
Warrior Prestige Classes:
Berserker (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRNMXBLBnBItB_Qxoenhmt837qqWJyFeVKEgKu6K_cc/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Champion (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPWv6XOx_furq-vwGa6H33XMAm7kspT2k5hijfQzSqU/edit?usp=drive_web) (Needs to be updated with information from Inquisition), Guardian (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qsFHwpsodsHE2E0nR7o3B9DZHa-hzHZ9_LhsmKM1-cY/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Reaver (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AfLK9HUGpuC8rY0zMedc4MWoiJqRc0M5ioB4kzJ-iwI/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Spirit Warrior (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c0uRnOuJp5tR8y7PiaOalrbl3z4RcyPgkitGgJ-N7LI/edit) (Finished), Templar (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uK_zW6hiJhbjSp1TQvTIoGFy348-W0_D3r24ncSZR0Q/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished).

Rogue = Rogue: I can't think of any archetypes or alternatives needed for this right now, but if anyone thinks of one feel free to post it below.
Rogue Prestige Classes:
Assassin (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MybN0AZbHq8loH7OUejUoeWxTj5SDzflQ03bAYQoYxY/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Bard (https://docs.google.com/document/d/13PHQUWNut6Kf-_nJgjdjIXLaCowTcO1-I0yID-WB4no/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Duelist (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S15GNcG3nRgOzAVohmc1VCf-tFPYxJcMTyDPScYwWkI/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Infiltrator (I intend to use the Master Spy class from Pathfinder for this class), Legionnaire Scout (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HM4xz65yk5uVBE6LLuO_eOa3CdHhwLO7FPgMdl-ZCww/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Ranger (I intend to use the Beastmaster class found in Complete Adventurer of D&D 3.5), Shadow (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fq7rS1mD_kvXplF56lfVBd5E9BGQEfwMxRXIZHk9J8Y/edit) (Finished), Swashbuckler (I intend to use the Deep Sea Pirate and/or Coastal Pirate from Pathfinder for this class).

The non-magic classes utilize Stamina, the rules for which can be found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xCQnC4Oq-9kOFnYA-hRna_XMxodKcAmHprz3DU1N-IY/edit?usp=drive_web).
I've thought about completely re-writing the base classes, perhaps creating the trees from Origins as potential options for them? Different archetypes or something? Utilize Stamina for the base classes as well as Prestige classes in some way?

Magic users in Thedas abide by a variation on normal magic rules, found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rsL88AxRdMKhta_dvB8Xkw3CeOTAbwegbckeTT4OX4s/edit?usp=drive_web). Also, rules for the Veil are found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lpRa5UwcD9s9lw_MTRLs-j9x_mWxN8X8_n2NyN002SY/edit?usp=drive_web).
A description of The Fade as a plane can be found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wIhguEUtndnV4MHrTIOud1Un2PSU2NSrcu1FgWXOyhA/edit?usp=drive_web).

I have also made a template for Dreamer mages, found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JKJtZsQcBMbpvAx1bv8zenROcw5K5FqYe3XFS5YgiI0/edit?usp=drive_web).

There are also rules for Grey Wardens, both a template (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1byOYwZ0MmOOCJW_z4hnLYaeTlIgZ-yFnrOA6-gyBWMc/edit?usp=drive_web), and an organization (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dTzevN6Is1VdnjgCdykWul4gQwtuxIue2YaD6vpN3Cc/edit?usp=drive_web).

For Races so far, I have:
The Dalish (https://docs.google.com/document/d/12WBfJtYv5hNOMGw1hZ3h9Nahd_Iq_WfTttvJuwo9GT4/edit?usp=drive_web)
City Elves (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r4Hyed4Yidjl10Jv9piN2s8dG8kD-oQurNuFA3-Szlo/edit),
and Qunari (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i3FGPTwXFro3XaqvfmhJmkhp9rcwQ6deJkfOY6WvxCI/edit?usp=drive_web).
I intend to do a set of racial traits for both Orzammar Dwarves and Surface Dwarves. Perhaps variations on Human for each of the regions they can originate from? What do people think on that?

I've also begun doing stats for Demons, and so far have completed Desire, Despair, Envy, and Fear- Found here (https://drive.google.com/drive/#folders/0B7OsVxQYIVabWU43RlFxamc2RmM/0B7OsVxQYIVabSmsteGR2N29HNWs/0B7OsVxQYIVabdnVVZlk0VVB1UnM/0B7OsVxQYIVabTUhLd1VFRGwtS0E).

Other than that, I've got the barebones of a crafting supplies list, just metals so far; found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xzeO5cdBQGhlDBuf8eBeP028tZp5aTCaHAVvklH-j1o/edit?usp=drive_web). I intend to eliminate most enchantments and make them inherent qualities of various crafting materials, chief among this being the +1-+5 that weapons and armor can receive.

Oh yeah, I've done a single feat (which is a prerequisite for the Keeper prestige class), found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19MkrutDIGFCBk8cregXooljh-LSfJohNfKMPKgj2dCk/edit?usp=drive_web).

That's what I've got so far. Suggestions? Critique? Offers of assistance? All of the above welcomed!

SowZ
2014-12-21, 04:32 AM
NOTE: If any of the following links don't allow you to view them, please let me know! Google recently did an update to drive and some people have been able to view them, others not so much. The only fix I've found is to manually add in individual email addresses to the list of people that can view.

Hello everyone! I've been a lurker here for some time, and over the last few months I have endeavored to create a full conversion of Dragon Age for Pathfinder. To this end I have thus far created the following classes:
Mage = Sorcerer, so far started on the Dalish bloodline: Need to do Chasind, Circle, Apostate, Tevinter, and Qunari bloodlines. Does this list need to be trimmed? Expanded upon? Ideas?
Mage Prestige Classes: Arcane Warrior (https://docs.google.com/document/d/15TX79dul66Ksn2UVLlhHZU-LZfAJWneJ8mNrPYc9aoE/edit) (Finished), Battlemage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cuVuI-NMshT_l2WchCpn3a3OsaQqhdmj5N2WlyPPu9Q/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Blood Mage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jh8Y6oZx7VXdJG7zHX5rPbeGutCcNeJ9_W6XVlVzDgc/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Force Mage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19k7RRkcXCrr2iUl1DDN6Uhvikb86_43mGzwnze90sC4/edit) (WIP), Keeper (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Q06FQFF1g8s6MpGwc3g3Vp_Sa3FDOCMftx7hGPBN_A/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Shapeshifter (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CY6_5C_SU9NMlnh2UaCwxWDmOOg0AYGDY1DLaIBZT8Y/edit) (Finished), Spirit Healer (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nziyShe0iG1xG7CPqfLQZL6CGC9GctvOsQfhrxpzPLk/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished)- I have yet to start on Necromancer, Knight-Enchanter, or Rift Mage.

Warrior = Fighter: Perhaps need to make Archetypes for Chevaliers? What about other sorts of warriors in Dragon Age? Suggestions?
Warrior Prestige Classes:
Berserker (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRNMXBLBnBItB_Qxoenhmt837qqWJyFeVKEgKu6K_cc/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Champion (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPWv6XOx_furq-vwGa6H33XMAm7kspT2k5hijfQzSqU/edit?usp=drive_web) (Needs to be updated with information from Inquisition), Guardian (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qsFHwpsodsHE2E0nR7o3B9DZHa-hzHZ9_LhsmKM1-cY/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Reaver (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AfLK9HUGpuC8rY0zMedc4MWoiJqRc0M5ioB4kzJ-iwI/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Spirit Warrior (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c0uRnOuJp5tR8y7PiaOalrbl3z4RcyPgkitGgJ-N7LI/edit) (Finished), Templar (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uK_zW6hiJhbjSp1TQvTIoGFy348-W0_D3r24ncSZR0Q/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished).

Rogue = Rogue: I can't think of any archetypes or alternatives needed for this right now, but if anyone thinks of one feel free to post it below.
Rogue Prestige Classes:
Assassin (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MybN0AZbHq8loH7OUejUoeWxTj5SDzflQ03bAYQoYxY/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Bard (https://docs.google.com/document/d/13PHQUWNut6Kf-_nJgjdjIXLaCowTcO1-I0yID-WB4no/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Duelist (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S15GNcG3nRgOzAVohmc1VCf-tFPYxJcMTyDPScYwWkI/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Infiltrator (I intend to use the Master Spy class from Pathfinder for this class), Legionnaire Scout (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HM4xz65yk5uVBE6LLuO_eOa3CdHhwLO7FPgMdl-ZCww/edit?usp=drive_web) (Finished), Ranger (I intend to use the Beastmaster class found in Complete Adventurer of D&D 3.5), Shadow (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fq7rS1mD_kvXplF56lfVBd5E9BGQEfwMxRXIZHk9J8Y/edit) (Finished), Swashbuckler (I intend to use the Deep Sea Pirate and/or Coastal Pirate from Pathfinder for this class).

The non-magic classes utilize Stamina, the rules for which can be found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xCQnC4Oq-9kOFnYA-hRna_XMxodKcAmHprz3DU1N-IY/edit?usp=drive_web).
I've thought about completely re-writing the base classes, perhaps creating the trees from Origins as potential options for them? Different archetypes or something? Utilize Stamina for the base classes as well as Prestige classes in some way?

Magic users in Thedas abide by a variation on normal magic rules, found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rsL88AxRdMKhta_dvB8Xkw3CeOTAbwegbckeTT4OX4s/edit?usp=drive_web). Also, rules for the Veil are found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lpRa5UwcD9s9lw_MTRLs-j9x_mWxN8X8_n2NyN002SY/edit?usp=drive_web).
A description of The Fade as a plane can be found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wIhguEUtndnV4MHrTIOud1Un2PSU2NSrcu1FgWXOyhA/edit?usp=drive_web).

I have also made a template for Dreamer mages, found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JKJtZsQcBMbpvAx1bv8zenROcw5K5FqYe3XFS5YgiI0/edit?usp=drive_web).

There are also rules for Grey Wardens, both a template (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1byOYwZ0MmOOCJW_z4hnLYaeTlIgZ-yFnrOA6-gyBWMc/edit?usp=drive_web), and an organization (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dTzevN6Is1VdnjgCdykWul4gQwtuxIue2YaD6vpN3Cc/edit?usp=drive_web).

For Races so far, I have:
The Dalish (https://docs.google.com/document/d/12WBfJtYv5hNOMGw1hZ3h9Nahd_Iq_WfTttvJuwo9GT4/edit?usp=drive_web)
City Elves (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r4Hyed4Yidjl10Jv9piN2s8dG8kD-oQurNuFA3-Szlo/edit),
and Qunari (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i3FGPTwXFro3XaqvfmhJmkhp9rcwQ6deJkfOY6WvxCI/edit?usp=drive_web).
I intend to do a set of racial traits for both Orzammar Dwarves and Surface Dwarves. Perhaps variations on Human for each of the regions they can originate from? What do people think on that?

I've also begun doing stats for Demons, and so far have completed Desire, Despair, Envy, and Fear- Found here (https://drive.google.com/drive/#folders/0B7OsVxQYIVabWU43RlFxamc2RmM/0B7OsVxQYIVabSmsteGR2N29HNWs/0B7OsVxQYIVabdnVVZlk0VVB1UnM/0B7OsVxQYIVabTUhLd1VFRGwtS0E).

Other than that, I've got the barebones of a crafting supplies list, just metals so far; found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xzeO5cdBQGhlDBuf8eBeP028tZp5aTCaHAVvklH-j1o/edit?usp=drive_web). I intend to eliminate most enchantments and make them inherent qualities of various crafting materials, chief among this being the +1-+5 that weapons and armor can receive.

Oh yeah, I've done a single feat (which is a prerequisite for the Keeper prestige class), found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19MkrutDIGFCBk8cregXooljh-LSfJohNfKMPKgj2dCk/edit?usp=drive_web).

That's what I've got so far. Suggestions? Critique? Offers of assistance? All of the above welcomed!

You've got some neat stuff, but why have you subdivided knowledge so much? There is no precedent for such a skill point tax in d20. There should just be an Elven Lore knowledge that encompasses all the others.

Anyway, do you plan on doing the Awakenings Specializations like Spirit Warrior?

Overall, classes are constructed well but, just like in Origins, Arcane Warrior is Uber. I'd bring all the caster classes down and the martial ones up quite a few pegs. Combat Magic, for instance, is insanely good. A warrior should absolutely be a better fighter than an Arcane Warrior as far as pure numbers and combat moves go, since an Arcane Warrior also gets spells. A bonus to attack and damage equal to half your caster level is really, really high. Also, Arcane Warriors should be 3/4 BAB, not full. As a general rule, full casters should be 1/2 and gishes should be 3/4.

Templar is fun, but not that great. He specializes at fighting mages. He should be able to completely wipe the floor with a mage of similar level. Like, totally and utterly destroy since he will not be offering as much against non-casters and he serves as the Rock to magics Scizzors. Give him abilities that give very high flat bonus to saves vs. spells, (even a +1 to all saves vs. spells equal to class level would not be out of place,) and some abilities that just plain ignore various magical effects. Annulment serves this purpose but it comes too late to be a major factor in my considerations.

A note for all classes. Don't have dead levels. Spellcasters gain spells so they don't need an ability every level but other classes do.

A good balancing factor and one that is in keeping with the games and the lore is to have spellcasters only learn 1 spell every time they gain a caster level and be unable to learn more spells than that.

Otherwise, I can see a lot of work has gone into this and I encourage you to continue to do so.

Zenogod
2014-12-21, 11:39 PM
Good idea about Elven Lore, I'll edit that tonight.

I've already done the specializations from Awakening- Spirit Warrior, Legionnaire Scout, Shadow, Guardian, Battlemage and Keeper.

I originally had it as a 3/4s progression, not sure why I changed it to Full.

I was trying to have Templars be really good against Mages without just instantly turning them to borscht, because all over the lore it's demonstrated that while Templars are highly effective against Mages, a Mage can still overpower a Templar 1v1- A group of Templars ganging up on a Mage is a different story however.
Flat bonuses seem appropriate, and yeah- Maybe give them like a shield to soak damage from spells?

I will be going through over the next couple of days and reining in the mage classes, and making sure the martial classes don't have dead levels.

I was thinking of doing that, but it would really limit their access to the spell lists that they acquire through these prestige classes. I dunno. I'll have to see how it plays out in-game before I decide on that one.

Thank you for all of the suggestions by the way! It is much appreciated.

EDIT: So far I have nerfed Arcane Warrior, Battlemage and Keeper as well as having re-done the language on Elvhen Lorekeeper and changed the entry requirements for Keeper accordingly.

SowZ
2014-12-22, 09:51 PM
Good idea about Elven Lore, I'll edit that tonight.

I've already done the specializations from Awakening- Spirit Warrior, Legionnaire Scout, Shadow, Guardian, Battlemage and Keeper.

I originally had it as a 3/4s progression, not sure why I changed it to Full.

I was trying to have Templars be really good against Mages without just instantly turning them to borscht, because all over the lore it's demonstrated that while Templars are highly effective against Mages, a Mage can still overpower a Templar 1v1- A group of Templars ganging up on a Mage is a different story however.
Flat bonuses seem appropriate, and yeah- Maybe give them like a shield to soak damage from spells?

I will be going through over the next couple of days and reining in the mage classes, and making sure the martial classes don't have dead levels.

I was thinking of doing that, but it would really limit their access to the spell lists that they acquire through these prestige classes. I dunno. I'll have to see how it plays out in-game before I decide on that one.

Thank you for all of the suggestions by the way! It is much appreciated.

EDIT: So far I have nerfed Arcane Warrior, Battlemage and Keeper as well as having re-done the language on Elvhen Lorekeeper and changed the entry requirements for Keeper accordingly.

Cool. As to the spell thing, yeah, it would limit spell caster flexibility and utility, but where did the idea come from that spell casters deserve so much more flexibility and options than a mundane?

Zenogod
2014-12-23, 12:28 AM
It's not that I think they should have more flexibility and versatility than mundane classes, it's just that the classes which have the Advanced Learning ability are also the only classes with access to Divine spells in the entire setting- Spells which allow for an actual support mage to be built, granting access to healing and debuff removal which normal Mages don't get.
I wanted to give them the option of serving a vital role in a party as well as being able to do their own thing. As I said, we'll see how it turns out in the playtest. I'm currently running a level-5 group with some buddies on Skype, and two of them are playing Mages.

SowZ
2014-12-23, 11:56 AM
It's not that I think they should have more flexibility and versatility than mundane classes, it's just that the classes which have the Advanced Learning ability are also the only classes with access to Divine spells in the entire setting- Spells which allow for an actual support mage to be built, granting access to healing and debuff removal which normal Mages don't get.
I wanted to give them the option of serving a vital role in a party as well as being able to do their own thing. As I said, we'll see how it turns out in the playtest. I'm currently running a level-5 group with some buddies on Skype, and two of them are playing Mages.

Then what about do a Star Wars Saga style thing? The reason I like Mages limited to one spell per level is because mundane classes usually get a strong class feature every other level, and a feat every third. And typically a spell is stronger than a feat. So a caster gets multiple spells a level while a mundane gets something good sometimes. Notice that in DA:Origins, a Warrior or Rogue got the equivalent of a feat every level while Mages got a spell each level. An option is to use Pathfinder feat rules, (a feat every other level,) and tacking on Saga style for mundane classes. This says that every other level, a class gets a bonus feat. So Fighters get Fighter bonus feats every other level, right? But being the class feature, instead of an add-on to real class features, is stupid.

So Saga introduced the idea that every class gets a bonus feat every other level. So make a list of Warrior Bonus Feats and a list of Rogue Bonus Feats, and each specialization would add a few feats to your list of options. This, I think, would be a decent alternative to giving mages just one spell per level. Especially if you re-work the weaker feats. (Make TWF naturally scale up with level, make weapon focus upgrade into improved weapon focus by itself, etc.)

What do you think of this idea?

Zenogod
2014-12-24, 06:15 AM
I could get behind that . . . Or perhaps introduce a talent selection that players using martial classes choose from at every even-numbered level, the abilities from which would run off of Stamina. Give them almost an equivalent to spellcasting.

SowZ
2014-12-25, 02:46 AM
I could get behind that . . . Or perhaps introduce a talent selection that players using martial classes choose from at every even-numbered level, the abilities from which would run off of Stamina. Give them almost an equivalent to spellcasting.

In addition to normal class features of course?

Zenogod
2014-12-25, 02:12 PM
Indeed. They would be an inherent thing gained for taking levels in any martial class, independent of class abilities.

SowZ
2014-12-25, 03:10 PM
Indeed. They would be an inherent thing gained for taking levels in any martial class, independent of class abilities.

Not a bad idea. A good rule of thumb is to give everyone roughly the same number of toys. If mages learn an average of 2 spells per level, martials should get about 2 strong abilities per level or maybe one strong ability and a handful of decent abilities.