*Spoiler* Unnatural Wizardy girl?

[SolkaTruesilver]

I was wondering.. what could qualify as unnatural wizardy?

- Not regular wizards..
- Not sorcerers, bards..
- Neither does Clerics or druids

I was thinking.. maybe that girl is a Warlock? That's the farest "unnatural" kind of arcane magic use I know in D&D

[The Extinguisher]

It probably has something to do with necromancy

[Crispy SpThief]

I think necromancy, or spells along the utter wierdness and wrongness of Evan's tentacles of Forced intrusion. *laughs*

[Lizard Lord]

I would say either necromancy or something involving demons.

[hewhosaysfish]

Well having spent most of yesterday slobbering over my friends copy of Tome of Magic, I'd suggest a binder. Although she could be a shadowcaster, to look at her...
Assuming ToM classes are used in the Stickiverse.

That's it! She a class/PrC that's not allowed in that campaign setting! Can't get more unnatural than that.

[Lorde]

She is psi.

[Baalzebub]

This goes in the Gaming Forums.

[Saithis Bladewing]

This goes in the Gaming Forums.

If it's trying to identify the class of a character from OotS, how does it belong in Gaming Forums? It belongs in Order of the Stick if you ask me.

Given the goth-like appearance, I'm going for necromancer. Mostly just because Rich has stuck almost completely to the Core three books.

[BisectedBrioche]

I wish I couldn't recall that picture involving the demon cockroach. X@

[Assassinfox]

Mostly just because Rich has stuck almost completely to the Core three books.

The most notable exceptions being the Death Knight, Huecuva, and EoFaF. :smalltongue:

[NeonRonin]

Perhaps she's a Mystic Theurge- that prestige class that mixes Divine and Arcane spellcasting. Or she could be an Alienist(old prestige class from 3.0, the Tome and Blood supplement); note the one eye differently colored from the other. Could be a sign of contacting an alien being from another plane.

[Innis Cabal]

i agree, either necromancy or demon summoning. or trying to find out what the snarl is

[Deuce]

Wild Mage?

[Innis Cabal]

that would work as well actually....certianly having a fire ball puff into a could of butterflies would be unnatural

[Iggero]

I'll be necromany. introducing new classes is burdensome, but I could be wrong. She could also be an alienist, since htey were updated for 3.5 in the complete arcane. Still, since we have already seen divination magic outlawed in one area,it would not surprise me to find that necromany has been labeled as "interfering with the natural order" and is therefor outlawed. Why can't people jsut accept taht death si not the end?

[slayerx]

Y'know, i'm fairly certain there was a thread like this back when she was first introduced... Might be best to look that up and see what conclusions they came up with back then...

My guess... hmm... maybe it's something like Human Transmutation from full Metal Alchemist... Like the transformation of living creatures permently. I maybe rusty on my DnD knowledge, but i think that all the transformation speels that exist are ones that are either temporay or can be dispelled, nothing perminent.

The Owlbear for instance might be an example of "unnatural wizardry" at work. A complete fusion of an owl and a bear that can not be dispelled and broken apart. I mean, afterall no one knows how the owlbear came to be and some think that it was the work of a "demented" wizard. Describing as Demented makes it sound like they don't think the owlbear was such a good idea =P... so the magical poeple of the world may have rules agianst perment mutation of creatures and humans.

Ohh... maybe when finally see her in battle, she will unleash on the goblins the dreaded bunnywolf, penguinlion, or the terrible ducksnake (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html) and show V why wizards make such creatures... oh yes, the goblins have much to fear

[KillerCardinal]

Given the goth-like appearance, I'm going for necromancer. Mostly just because Rich has stuck almost completely to the Core three books.

For exception, don't forget the Dashing Swordsman! I don't think that one even exists! :smallbiggrin:

[Innis Cabal]

its in a third party book....they have everything...though i agree its necromancy...or wild magic, which would be awsome

[Felius]

Yes, going with necro, although alienist is basically the definition of unnatural wizardry.

[Lord Anath'Kash]

Unnatural wizardry could be as simple as something like:
"Oh a crab and a butterfly" -MAGIC SOUND- "I call it a crabberfly!"

Though Wild mage sounds good.

[Izodor]

That's it! She a class/PrC that's not allowed in that campaign setting! Can't get more unnatural than that.

That is so right.

[BobTheDog]

The problem with outlaw Necromancy is that spells such as Death Ward (a Paladin spell) are in that school.

[Jefepato]

Mostly just because Rich has stuck almost completely to the Core three books.

There have been enough exceptions to make this argument spurious.

[Silverlocke980]

Warlock or necromancer, I'd assume, though not all warlocks are actually evil (90%, but not all).

Maybe she's a Croakamancer. :)

(It's an Erfworld joke, people!)

[slayerx]

Ya, i'm really not thinking it's necromancy of all things, it's a reconized school of magic and one does not need to be evil to practice it, so i don't think they would call it "unnatural". Instead, i would think that they would just label the charge something like, "illegal use of magic", as opposed to unnatural magic. Can't see a reason why Necromancy should be treated as "unnatural", atleast not a reason that could not be twisted to also exclude other schools

[TOAOMT]

For Rich's preference for core books, he does tend to prefer Core rulebook classes (though not necessarily monsters) unless it's part of the joke. Even the Samurai was a Paladin with monk levels. But when the story requires, either for a joke or to give the high CHA character combat effectiveness, he doesn't seem to have a problem pulling from other sources.

Now, for what could constitute unnatural wizardry... I'd go with Warlock (being believed to be Demon Granted), Sorcery (though I'd argue that that's the most natural form of magic), Necromancy (It's not actually unnatural, but the world is run on perception and Paladins might label it as such), Alienism, Demon Summoning, Fatespinning, Spells that involve human sacrifice, Freaky Incarnum stuff, etc.

I could see more jokes coming from Alienism or Incarnum, though I'd also love to see the look on RedCloak's face if the undead started shattering around him, destroyed by Undeath to Death or some such.

[Cybren]

who?
(OBLIGATORY CHARACTERS DESPITE IT BEING ULTIMATELY IRRELVENT TO MY QUERY)

[Kreistor]

For Rich's preference for core books, he does tend to prefer Core rulebook classes

Actually, I believe he's sticking to the SRD classes. This avoids any potential lawsuits.

[TOAOMT]

...You win this time Kreistor... but you haven't heard the last of me!

(good point though, kudos)

[skinkatlarge]

She committed one or more ACTS of Unnatural Wizardry - there's no reason to think her class is anything other than, well, Wizard. It's quite possible she just cast an Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion in front of the wrong paladin.

[KurenaiYami]

Or she could be an Alienist(old prestige class from 3.0, the Tome and Blood supplement); note the one eye differently colored from the other. Could be a sign of contacting an alien being from another plane.

Alienist was what I was thinking.

And in case you don't know, Alienist was updated to 3.5, it's in Complete Arcane.

[BisectedBrioche]

Ohh... maybe when finally see her in battle, she will unleash on the goblins the dreaded bunnywolf, penguinlion, or the terrible ducksnake (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html) and show V why wizards make such creatures... oh yes, the goblins have much to fear

The goblins'll scatter like tiny orange plant creatures.

Sorry for the stupid question, but WTF's an "Alienist"?

[kerberos]

Unnatural acts hashistorically refered to sex with animals or homosexuality I believe, so she might just be realy fond of animals. In a non-druid kind of way.

[Lord Anath'Kash]

Unnatural acts hashistorically refered to sex with animals or homosexuality I believe, so she might just be realy fond of animals. In a non-druid kind of way.

Not merely "Unnatural acts" which you allude towards, "Unnatural acts of wizardry".

Of relating of arcane magic, most likely to do with class or crossbreeding fluffy animals via magical means. Nothing sexual.

Euw. Just. Euw.

[kerberos]

Not merely "Unnatural acts" which you allude towards, "Unnatural acts of wizardry".

Of relating of arcane magic, most likely to do with class or crossbreeding fluffy animals via magical means. Nothing sexual.

Euw. Just. Euw.
Yes, but we could be dealing with creative uses of the charm animal spell. :smalltongue:

[Lord Anath'Kash]

Yes, but we could be dealing with creative uses of the charm animal spell. :smalltongue:

Sure... if she were a druid or ranger.

I still stand by my "euw" statement though... :smalltongue:

[Pvednes]

While it could be demon summoning, the gothy clothes say necromancer.

[Snake-Aes]

Those eyes hint for a failed polymorph. Maybe she tried an alternative "alter self" to gain that boy in the prom... who knows

[kerberos]

While it could be demon summoning

For some "friendly" contact with an outsider perhaps. :smallwink:

[kerberos]

Sure... if she were a druid or ranger.

I still stand by my "euw" statement though... :smalltongue:
Craft distubing mental image, Belkar is my idol. :smallcool:

[Luklan]

Hmm... How about she used Polymorph Self to turn herself into a Dire Wolf to get it on with Hinjo's Dire Wolf companion? *tosses Kerberos a cookie* Wouldn't have thought of it without you.

Seriously though, Wild Mage seems about as 'unnatural' as it gets. I know Baldur's Gate 2 had some crazy side-effects, like dropping cows on your target, or swapping genders, eye colour, etc. And I'm only going with that because I dunno anything about classes beyond the 3 core rule books, hehe...

Not going with 'Because she cast a Necromancy spell, which is illegal and stuffs in a paladin city', since, as mentioned in an earlier post, spells like 'Death Ward' are necromantic, just not in a bad way.

[NeonRonin]

And in case you don't know, Alienist was updated to 3.5, it's in Complete Arcane.

Yet more evidence that I need to get more 3.5 rulebooks. If only I hadn't had to get my car repaired, I'd have had the money... :smalltongue:

[kerberos]

Hmm... How about she used Polymorph Self to turn herself into a Dire Wolf to get it on with Hinjo's Dire Wolf companion? *tosses Kerberos a cookie* Wouldn't have thought of it without you.
Thanks, *eats cookie* I pride myself on being a corrupting influence on all around me. :smallbiggrin:

[SolkaTruesilver]

Well, if I analyse the arguments here, we have 2 main theory:

- if Rich sticks (pun intended) to the core book (which we now know he do not), it's probably Necromancy/Demon summonning.

But AD&D isn't Warhammer, and these 2 kind of "bad magic" should not be qualified as "unnatural magic". "Evil magic", "Demonic Worship" or "Necrophilia" should be the accusations, after all. The spells to raise deads and summon demons are know to every high-level wizards and clerics (specially clerics in Azure City)

If we get out of the Core books, the other theory (except mine) would be a binder or alienist. I don't really know about the binder, but I don't think she would be an alienist. She seem to wear a gothic style, not a "complete-crazy" style, which is the mark of the crazy alienists.

However, I don't like the idea of a prestige class. Rich isn't really into these, since most high-level characters are either multi-classed, or pure character class.

I think I will take the Warlock. As I said, it's the most unnatural (and uncommon) kind of arcane caster. not the kind of spell, but kind of caster. And those who say Rich stay in the core books, let's not forget that he used a Ninja a hundred+ strips ago!

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Sure... if she were a druid or ranger.

I still stand by my "euw" statement though... :smalltongue:

No a female sheep is spelled "Ewe":smallbiggrin:

[Hyrael]

The goblins'll scatter like tiny orange plant creatures.

Sorry for the stupid question, but WTF's an "Alienist"?

Beyond celestia and the abyss, beyond the astral, beyond the farthest reaches of the known reality, beyond even the plane of shadow, there is outside. Compared to it, all reality, not just the great wheel, but eberron, torril, your homebrew and everything else, is merely a tiny circle of candlelight surrounded by a vast dark ocean. and, like any ocean, it has things in it. Creatures of insanity beyond understanding. they live in a world like a inverted onion, infinite layers, rains of mucus, unknowable horrors spontaneously manifesting and dissapearing, creatures that exist on multiple layers at once. tentacles and slime dont begin to describe these cosmic horrors from beyond the candle's flame

as unimaginably distant as this Far Realm is, it is also merely a hair's breadth away, and it calls to those that can hear. people of great imagination hear it's voice, and call back. they treat with these entities, make pacts, and summon them for aid. these mad, doomed individuals are know as Alienists. and one day, no matter their power, the far realm will come for them.

[Deuce]

Beyond celestia and the abyss, beyond the astral, beyond the farthest reaches of the known reality, beyond even the plane of shadow, there is outside...

So, basically Lovecraft then?

[Wizzardman]

So, basically Lovecraft then?
Yup, pretty much, save that they usually look like normal monsters, but can occasionally grow tentacles and random goopy bits. Also, they get True Strike 1/day. And Alienists stop aging--in exchange, Beings from Beyond the Universe <tm> come by and steal them at their appropriate dying age.

[Lord Anath'Kash]

No a female sheep is spelled "Ewe":smallbiggrin:

Argh... my poor poor eyes and rapidly melting brain... :smallbiggrin:

[BisectedBrioche]

"They make pacts with Lovecraftian ripoffs" would have sufficed.

[Lizard Lord]

Could she be a warlock? I don't really know alot about them. (I have NWN2, but my dnd group doesn't want to use 3rd edition.)

[brionl]

If you want to get technical about it, Alienists commit pseudo-natural acts of wizardy.

[Legendary]

No, the Far Realms are about as unnatural as they come.

[Kreistor]

Could she be a warlock? I don't really know alot about them. (I have NWN2, but my dnd group doesn't want to use 3rd edition.)

Warlocks are a different type of spell caster. Comparing them to Wizards can be done, but there are a lot of fundamental differences. No, you can't really confuse teh two, unless the Warlock has a really good Bluff check.

[SolkaTruesilver]

strange you say that, 'cause the Warlock can have the highest bluff I've seen in play. I played a 4-th level warlock, and had a +18 bluff modifier..

off course, with a Hat of Disguise, my character could pass as pretty much everybody.

The archetypal Warlock (there are some dissidents about this) is someone who have made a pact with a surnatural entity in order to get surnatural powers of his own. Well.. HE can have made the pact, of he could have inherited it.. You can have the powers if your grand-grand-grand-grand-mother had sex with Grazzt in exchange of Warlockish powers.

Most of their powers (defined moslty between the Invocation (Spell-like ability) and their Eldritch Blast (a ray attack)) are usable at will. Their buff, however, can only target themselves, but they last 24 hours. (This is how I got a permanent +6 to Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate :smallbiggrin: ).

They have very few powers, but they last as long as they want.

Also, (finally), the Warlocks have a natural affinity with everything magic, and can use any magic items (traduction: they can take 10 on Use Magic Device test ANYTIME. So, stack up on Cleric-, Wizards-, Druid- and Paladin-only uber-items)

They can also create any magic item with the same skill (and if they have the right feat)é

They have to be chaotic OR evil (but most are both). They are even lower than the Necromancers in the social standing of Arcane user, since they channel the power demons gave to their blood (all their power have dark connotation names).

Off course, many people will tell you that "no, they don't have to channel the powers of demon", but it was the original fluff intended for the Warlock.

[BisectedBrioche]

If you want to get technical about it, Alienists commit pseudo-natural acts of wizardy.

I'd say more quasi-natural. Seeing as the beings they contact are part of the natural order...but then again they're not.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Eye of Fear and Flame has just been introduced from Book of Vile Darkness so maybe she took the Lich Loved feat.

Actually Paladins would probably execute someone with a Vile feat.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

She committed one or more ACTS of Unnatural Wizardry - there's no reason to think her class is anything other than, well, Wizard. It's quite possible she just cast an Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion in front of the wrong paladin.

"In Front Of?" Try "Cast Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusions ON the wrong paladin!"

I think that would count as "Unnatural Wizardry," but maybe that's just me.

[the_tick_rules]

will she be in the story long enough for it to matter?

[holywhippet]

Hmm, maybe she was making magical items like a girdle of gender change. You can't tell me that's a natural use of magic. I'm half tempted to link to my Baldur's Gate 2 fanfic - I came up with a number of unnatural or less than ethical uses of magic in it.

[korath]

I love playing my warlock's. I did kind of nerf one a bit, though. Took a level of Ranger to get some extras.

I however, do not see Warlocks as unnatural Or wizardlike. SO, I belive she was a Necromancer.

[MinMax]

I still don't think a Necromancer is going to cut it. I mean, come on, would it really be a core class that becomes so forbidden? One that shares abilities with the paladins, I hasten to add onto the growing pile of comments.

I think she might be a Hexblade. The whole Greater Hexblade's Curse screams unnatural to me. They're not even allowed to be good. Of course, I have no idea, I just wanted to suugest a class that wasn't pure spellcaster. Who says she can't fight?

Also: She could be an evil paladin, tyranny or slaughter, but that seems a bit far-fetched to me. I guess we'll find out some day.

[Kreistor]

Unnatural Acts of Wizardry" could be as simple as casting Charm Person on someone.

[M._A._Foxfire]

Hmm, maybe she was making magical items like a girdle of gender change. You can't tell me that's a natural use of magic. I'm half tempted to link to my Baldur's Gate 2 fanfic - I came up with a number of unnatural or less than ethical uses of magic in it.

G'wan, link it!

[holywhippet]

G'wan, link it!

I'm PM'd it to you. I suspect linking might be in violation of certain board rules.

[TheBlueDragon]

Little question... Uh, who are you all speaking about? @@

[SteveMB]

Little question... Uh, who are you all speaking about? @@
The convict in prison for "unnatural acts of wizardry" (one of the ones who took Hinjo's deal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html)).

[TheBlueDragon]

.... I missed that comic. So THAT was why I didn't recognize the archer guy in black.

[StoryKeeper]

Necromancy seems the most probable answer, although depending on how strictly the term "wizardry" is being used I do have a second possibility. If, and this is improbable, she is a cleric, she may be a cleric of pestilence (or is it plague) and have acess to the curse of lycanthropy spell as seen in Complete Divine. Just throwing it out there.

[BisectedBrioche]

I've got it, look at those eyes (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=447527&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true). UWG clearly cuts deals with the most villainous beings known to man: BUS DRIVERS!

[Mummy king]

unnatural acts of wizardry. She's a wizard. She was zapping little kiddies with magic missiles. And *unspeakable* them with Bigby's *obscene* hand!

Although Bigby's grasping hand also fits the description quite well :P

[TheAlmightyOne]

Clearly she invented the spiked tentacles of forced intrusion spell.

[dragongirl13]

She did not do anything unnatural with being a wizard. She's a warlock. You guys should have caught this with her odd eyes and gothicness. Plus warlocks are often chaotic evli. It's a matter of prejudice. Plus, warlocks get their powers from dealings with demons (or at least most do).

P.S. Warlock is a character class found in Complete Arcane, for those who don't know.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Yea, I have a supporter of the Warlock-theory..

Seriously, I doubt very much Necromancy would be considered as "unnatural", since it's a legitimate school of magic. (it's not like Warhammer, where Necromancers are a stand-alone arcane casters). They would have to hunt down every arcane caster who has necromancy spell in their spellbook - which I doubt very much -.

Warlock - the pure, original kind - is supposed to consort with demons in order to get their powers. THAT is unnatural. Much more than Evil Clerics (which would be executed on-tha-spot in Azure City, I think). Specially since Warlocks can still be CN, and do not have an evil aura.

[KurenaiYami]

Clearly she invented the spiked tentacles of forced intrusion spell.

So she's the Evan who made Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion? She's a man?!?!?!

She did make the girdle!

[asland32]

I vote for Alienist because of her eyes. Not necessarily evil, not necessarily humanoid anymore either, definitely un-natural. Summoning pseudo-natural critters would do it nes pas?

[Professor Tanhauser]

Personally I hope UWG and belkar hit if off. Maybe she's obsessed with death and necromancy, and is turned on by the fact that balkar just reeks of death.

Heh, it's be a hoot if she could take that MoJ off him, if he provided her with certain....(snicker) services (nudge nudge wink wink).