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TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-22, 02:10 PM
This is a Thread for the game Empire!

Nothing to see here unless you're an invited nation to this conference!

That would be at present -

Ashenia
Niskovia
Bordeux
Hurosha
Guilder
Raaneka
Fera

Thank you.

SamBurke
2014-12-22, 02:44 PM
Guilder present and accounted for. Worried about if the Concordat pulls some moves and makes things go early.

Lord_Burch
2014-12-22, 05:09 PM
I'm here too. I don't have much to say; however, I do suggest that we invite C'nor into our alliance as well. I'm on good terms with her. I can't say for certain, but as far as I know she has little to no ties with the Imperium or Concordant. Besides that, she has spoken of making an alliance with the Free States against Imperium aggression.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-22, 06:23 PM
The thing is they are currently helping her win her area back, aren't they?

WaylanderX
2014-12-22, 06:36 PM
Hurosha Reporting.....

Got lots of troops ready to go, but I have a couple of requests in regards to my battlefield.

In character, Hurosha is not on too good terms with Ashenia, so I want to fight on a different battlefield if possible, to prevent IC issues. With Bordeux I haven't got any problems though, we just didnt get in eachother's way anymore.

Snowfire
2014-12-22, 06:38 PM
Raaneka is alive and our partying units are ready for deployment :smalltongue:

I'm a little concerned over the Imperium making nasty noises in my direction, but if we can get treaties with the West signed this round I would be...much much happier.


The thing is they are currently helping her win her area back, aren't they?

No, that's Niskovia and Bordeux with Sycia adding like a single unit of crusaders from half way across the planet. I have some pretty good OOC relations with C'nor, assuming that things haven't changed, so I'll see about poking her if you'd like.

Lord_Burch
2014-12-22, 07:28 PM
I don't know if Morph's been in contact with you - he said he would be but doesn't always act as quickly as he might - but since things are escalating quickly and I'm about to go afk for much of the rest of the round I figured I might as well say hello myself. Obviously we haven't had a lot of contact and aren't anywhere near each other really but inasmuch as the Imperium is all one family what happens out west is still my business.

Anyway, it's probably not escaped your notice that there's a big war on the horizon. I have no idea what's actually going to kick it off but Snow is certainly spoiling for one, Blade is disinclined to apply the brakes, and the Imperium's got tangled up in the middle, especially since Sam is very keen to fight us for some reason.

I know the Imperium and Bordeux have not been on good terms for a while - possibly not ever, really - and that has always seemed to me to be a shame since we'd work better if we weren't constantly at each other's throats and I've made a point of trying to establish good relations with pretty much everyone else out west. What Morph was supposed to be doing was discussing with you some kind of mutually acceptable settlement in the west that can put an end to the constant friction. I'm not empowered to make any such deal but I do know that we're not planning on any significant more expansion to the west - it's basically just a GK for Logic, which means in all likelihood one more region, and that's it. I don't know what Bordeux is after in that part of the world - presumably Dong Nam back or some sort of equivalent exchange (not that that's anything to do with us, but we've been holding off doing anything with it ourselves in case you were intending to retake it) but if we know what you're after we can do our best to assist or at least not get in the way.

Obviously any such deal would be made a lot harder if we end up fighting in the near future, though. None of us really want to fight Bordeux, either over territory in the west or in some kind of EoD-Concordat proxy war, so I figured it was worth extending the hand now in case Morph hadn't already, in the hope we could work something out and not come to blows again.

So... Yeah. Advice? Go for the double cross or flat-out refuse? I'm included for the latter, but whatever the consensus is works for me.

Kitsanth
2014-12-22, 07:55 PM
Niskovia is present!

Odd that I have not heard from Aedilred about this...


I will say that if the Imperium gets involved things get very complicated. My vassal (Fera) has a treaty of non-interference with the Imperium and as a the Haljans are a pacifist people so they will not be committing their troops to a war of the other side of the world.

Personally I would like for my people to take a stance of neutrality in this possible war, however recent negotiations will be giving my people stronger ties with the Empire of Dawn than we've had previously and so, if the Empire of Dawn is not the aggressor in this possible conflict I will commit my troops to its defence only, hopefully on fronts with no Imperium presence if they get involved.

SamBurke
2014-12-23, 12:14 AM
So... Yeah. Advice? Go for the double cross or flat-out refuse? I'm included for the latter, but whatever the consensus is works for me.

I wanna point out that what Aed is saying in that quote is incorrect; I'm eager NOT to go to war. Don't know that I'll have the chance, so I'm pleased to get to know you folks, a little more immediately than otherwise I might.

Elemental
2014-12-23, 01:30 AM
Ashenia is also present.

Hmm... This is a tricky situation. I've managed to end up with good relations with most of the Imperium plus Glazfell is a trading partner of mine. However, Ashenia will as always stand with Bordeux and I certainly have no wish for either the Imperium or the Concordat to grow more powerful. So you've got my support.

Anyways, just echoing Waylander here. It would be best for Huroshan and Ashenite troops to be deployed separately if possible. In addition, I'd rather avoid fighting the forces of Imperium if I can. Which means I get to fight the Sympol and Tzaltec fire throwers. Oh boy!

And on the topic of Aedilred, I too have received a message exhorting my neutrality and suggesting I use this as an opportunity to make gains against Hurosha. Don't worry Waylander, I may want some of your land, but I'm not about to go stealing it. I believe Aedilred is just trying to gauge our intentions from our responses. If there is going to be a war after all, it's going to be a big one and he's not stupid enough to go into it without first looking over the playing field.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-23, 07:28 AM
Does anyone have any complaints about inviting the rest of the Triumvirate as well? They will be assisting in all likelyhood as well, so we can further be on the same page. I'll invite C'nor now.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-23, 09:56 AM
Welcome all! Thank you for all being here, and I ask that you at least keep anyone elses involvment but yours a secret. That means if someone asks you if you know who else is assisting the Empire of Dawn in any way, just say where you are in it if you'd like. You don't even have to do that, but at this point people have been getting bits of information through grapevines and they're running with it. Even if what they think is happening isn't what actually is.

We can see this with Guilder for instance: The Imperium was told by the Concordat that Guilder wants to attack them. Was it once an idea that the Salterri needed to be cut back, because of the Seabourn Confederation and Celero joining? I don't think any of us didn't think about it at some point. They're big. They're threatening, and it was an idea at some point. But to take an OOC comment and turn it into the Guilderene expanse wants war with the Imperium? The Concordat also told me a few rounds agor that Guilder threatened to go to war with the Concordat in the past repeatedly, which isn't true.

So they're spreading half truths, or exagerating small things, or outright spreading rumors.

I'm working on seeing if I can get the Salterri to stay out of the conflict in general, and diplomize with them, but we shall see what happens. They've asked me to do the same in the past (keep out of their war) but that was a civil war, so we shall see what comes of it. We've busted our butts trying to make Guilder have a better image in deeds and in words, but the Salterri see it as biding time until they do it again. Heck some of you might think that...and perhaps we can disuade some of that here. Anyway, given that they're asking each of you about it now means this is all going down next round, I think, and that they are likely to be involved.

If they DO join, they'll either work in support of the Concordat's forces, or outright invade Requiem and Triumph. If they win either of those, my great kingdom and empire will collapse, and I'll be back to square one. I know Faedas has been eyeing Domhan Abhaile for some time now as well, so that's another potential target.



Anyway, now to go to you folks -

Borduex - Welcome and thank you for your support. I'd rather you not pretend to be a double agent in this case, and since that's your preference as well, I'd go with your gut. I recomend not divulging much in the way of usable information, other than what you'd like to give. Such as who else is at this meeting.

Guilder - If they attack this round, well then we're good, because everyones here, and we're getting on the same page. I know you don't want the war. Our image is about to change. The Concordat has proved to us over and over that there's not going to be a peaceful solution. They want to war with us, and have been itching for it. The only thing we can do now is defend ourselves, and try and survive.

Hurosha & Ashenia- Since you two are not on great terms, I think that would be wise. Perhaps when this passes, we can try and come up with some sort of "Mason Dixon" line, west of which is Ashenia, east of which is Hurosha, and go from there. I don't know how either of you will feel about it, but I see no reason why we can't later use this oncoming war as a way to unite our peoples a bit better, without joining kingdoms. The more we quarrel amongst ourselves, the more we let our enemies overtake us.

Ashenia - I appreciate and respect your faithfulness to Bordeux, and certainly appreciate your support. I apologize that it puts you in a tricky situation. Should I be attacked by the Concordat, I'm planning on raising a blockade so that trade doesn't assist our enemies, so is there anything I can do to keep you from suffering from the loss of Glazfell's trades during the war? I can add them to my actions during the games if you like? If you'd prefer I not do that, we'll have to talk, because I'm loathe to allow my enemies get the resources they need to better attack us.

Hurosha - Welcome! If you could, don't tell Faedas about what's going on in this thread. I know you both talk, and apparently she's been feeding the information to the Concordat even though you asked her not to. Seems to me that she's trying to play for both teams to side with the winner...

Raaneka - Thank you for your assistance and efforts to try and not have this war happen, and seeing as people are saying, oh, you're acting opposed to what you're saying, you can always respond with - sometimes a cigar is a cigar. I've tried for peace, but I have to make sure my people and my empire are able to be protected, and we were just warned that "War is Coming". Seeing that the Concordat are mass raising troops, and you know they've threatened war in the past, you're just raising defences. Its not like your newest technology is warlike, which it could have been. You got this. We got your back.

Niskovia - If I can keep you out of this war, I will, but if it gets to be a dog pile, you might want to be prepared to come in. I'm seeing a lot of troops being raised... I appreciate you defending me, and I hope things can go well enough.



I want to say that all of you volenteering assistance shall not be forgotten. Some of you are working out treaties with me and mine to better ally ourselves, so you can post those here if you need to. Way, I know we've already got a thread for that, so you don't have to do that.

As I mentioned to Ashenia, I'm planning on creating a blockade of the Concordat should they attack. This will likely result in some of you not getting your trades from the Concordat, and I'd like to allieviate any hardships that may cause. Let me know your concerns and we can go from there.

SamBurke
2014-12-23, 11:56 AM
So... I'm wondering what Celero's actions mean? They're clearly expecting an assault, and I'm wondering if that's related to our combat or something I've missed?

@Wombat: Definitely they're using misinformation. The most important thing here is to be open and explain things, to make sure that we don't fold over ourselves and start having in-fighting. The Ashenia/Hurosha solution is awesome, for example.

As to there being a war, I'm fine with it. Question, though: do you think the war will be dangerous enough that it will warrant MECKs coming out? Vizini would, again, hate that, but if it was a world-war, he'd pull them out.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-23, 12:11 PM
So... I'm wondering what Celero's actions mean? They're clearly expecting an assault, and I'm wondering if that's related to our combat or something I've missed?

@Wombat: Definitely they're using misinformation. The most important thing here is to be open and explain things, to make sure that we don't fold over ourselves and start having in-fighting. The Ashenia/Hurosha solution is awesome, for example.

As to there being a war, I'm fine with it. Question, though: do you think the war will be dangerous enough that it will warrant MECKs coming out? Vizini would, again, hate that, but if it was a world-war, he'd pull them out.

Instead of having MECK's come out, I'd destroy the tech. We don't want people using secret actions to steal them, and we aren't able to use them, and its partially a reason for the war to happen. If you destroy it, people can't use it, and since half the resources are in the Concordat, its no great loss for you. Better than it falling in enemy hands, after all.

As for Celero, I spoke with Logic and he sees the increase in troops with his neighbors as an inclimate attack. He's told me that he's not going to reneg on our non aggression pact, so theres that. I'm having him reach out to Burch to get more info.

SamBurke
2014-12-23, 12:19 PM
Instead of having MECK's come out, I'd destroy the tech. We don't want people using secret actions to steal them, and we aren't able to use them, and its partially a reason for the war to happen. If you destroy it, people can't use it, and since half the resources are in the Concordat, its no great loss for you. Better than it falling in enemy hands, after all.

As for Celero, I spoke with Logic and he sees the increase in troops with his neighbors as an inclimate attack. He's told me that he's not going to reneg on our non aggression pact, so theres that. I'm having him reach out to Burch to get more info.

But I view the destruction of technology as one of the worst possible crimes one could could commit... Is it necessary, d'you think?

Sounds fair.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-23, 12:21 PM
But I view the destruction of technology as one of the worst possible crimes one could could commit... Is it necessary, d'you think?

Sounds fair.

Worse than war? Than murder? Than having that technology used against you? I know you're loathe to do it. I just don't want something to bite us that we can't even use to bite back without justifying their grievances.

Elemental
2014-12-23, 10:23 PM
So they're spreading half truths, or exagerating small things, or outright spreading rumors.

I'm honestly not surprised. This war is shaping up to be big and decide the course of history for who knows how long into the future. The Concordat, and the Imperium also, are simply trying to sway the opinions of the unaligned states.

On Faedas: True, they might see this as an opportunity. They have been trying to increase their holdings on the central continent so they may take advantage while everyone's troops are elsewhere. Alternatively, they may be more sensible and wait to see how the conflict is going before choosing sides.



Hurosha & Ashenia- Since you two are not on great terms, I think that would be wise. Perhaps when this passes, we can try and come up with some sort of "Mason Dixon" line, west of which is Ashenia, east of which is Hurosha, and go from there. I don't know how either of you will feel about it, but I see no reason why we can't later use this oncoming war as a way to unite our peoples a bit better, without joining kingdoms. The more we quarrel amongst ourselves, the more we let our enemies overtake us.

Ashenia - I appreciate and respect your faithfulness to Bordeux, and certainly appreciate your support. I apologize that it puts you in a tricky situation. Should I be attacked by the Concordat, I'm planning on raising a blockade so that trade doesn't assist our enemies, so is there anything I can do to keep you from suffering from the loss of Glazfell's trades during the war? I can add them to my actions during the games if you like? If you'd prefer I not do that, we'll have to talk, because I'm loathe to allow my enemies get the resources they need to better attack us.

I'd be fine with such a line. I recommend that a simple agreement wherein Hurosha agrees not to expand into the polar regions further West than Tletica. It's basically a confirmation of the status quo situation in that part of the world.

I can weather the interruption in trade, I have the diplomacy score to keep my regions stable should they rebel because the import of certain goods has been blocked. I'm more worried about the aftermath and whether or not I'll be able to restore previous trades. But that bridge will be crossed when I get to it, there are more important concerns for now.


On MECK technology, I have a possible solution, but I don't know if it'd be rules legal. Use a secret action to lock away some MECKs and the plans and all in a hidden vault, preferably in some remote region where discovery is unlikely, then destroy the technology. If things go right and this is legal according to the rules, you needn't fear the tech being stolen and it's still there should you need it again in the future.

zabbarot
2014-12-24, 05:16 PM
Hi everybody. I'll be speaking on behalf of the triumvirate for now. The church will come to the defense of the faithful as they have in the past. We're working through political upheaval right now though and soon we will be two separate but still united kingdoms.

Imp is willing to commit the guild assassins and troops as necessary. I don't know how everyone feels about assassins IC, but the Triumvirate justifies it as taking one life to spare thousands. If anyone would object heavily this is a good place to bring it up. If anyone would like to sponsor an assassination IC shoot Imp a message to work out terms. (largely fluff since we're working together)

On the Imperium, I'm wondering if this war will fracture them. Morph and I had plans to work together in the near future, and Aed and Durk have nearly left the Imperium before. So I imagine either Morph will side with Aed to try to hold the Imperium together, or he might take a hard stance against it and force the split. Either is possible. I don't see murgen or Logic siding against us which reinforces the chance of them becoming effectively the Northern Salterri in my mind.

SamBurke
2014-12-25, 11:19 PM
On MECK technology, I have a possible solution, but I don't know if it'd be rules legal. Use a secret action to lock away some MECKs and the plans and all in a hidden vault, preferably in some remote region where discovery is unlikely, then destroy the technology. If things go right and this is legal according to the rules, you needn't fear the tech being stolen and it's still there should you need it again in the future.

The problem is that that would still allow a possibility of recovery... To be honest, I'm just going to shut them down, for now.

WaylanderX
2014-12-26, 10:04 AM
I wasn't planning on continuing any farther west to begin with. Not worth the trouble. We can set up a treaty after the war (Is Ashmarism legal in Ashenia btw? :P).

In other news, I spoke to the Imperium and Aed agreed to stay out of it if Hurosha stayed out of it. With a bit of luck we can contain this a little bit. I'll proclaim myself agressive neutral, hedging out all EoD hostile troops. Aka I would still let Bordeux and Ashenia pass for example. In addition, I'll provide support in the form of trade blocking and secret actions.

And if it's really needed, I'll support openly with troops. However, if I do that, it might escalate again.

Long story short, I think I can keep other parties out if I do not attack directly. But I still have your back.

Thoughts?

Elemental
2014-12-26, 10:16 AM
I wasn't planning on continuing any farther west to begin with. Not worth the trouble. We can set up a treaty after the war (Is Ashmarism legal in Ashenia btw? :P).

Ashmarism has been legal since around the time of Rove (or whoever it was who succeeded Nyllana) ascended to the throne of the Huroshan Empire. It was originally outlawed on incomplete theological knowledge as to the perspective of Ashenia at the time it was considered a subset of the Doctrine of Flame.
The then King of Ashenia, whose name escapes me, delivered the news personally as a coronation present.



In other news, I spoke to the Imperium and Aed agreed to stay out of it if Hurosha stayed out of it. With a bit of luck we can contain this a little bit. I'll proclaim myself agressive neutral, hedging out all EoD hostile troops. Aka I would still let Bordeux and Ashenia pass for example. In addition, I'll provide support in the form of trade blocking and secret actions.

And if it's really needed, I'll support openly with troops. However, if I do that, it might escalate again.

Long story short, I think I can keep other parties out if I do not attack directly. But I still have your back.

Thoughts?

That may be difficult for them to accept. But we'll try it anyway. After all, someone's got to keep the Stormvermin from outflanking Lyradis and running rampant across the Central Continent and reserves are always handy.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-26, 12:54 PM
Alright, so I just want to see what the conditions are for each person entering this war.

Silver Moon and Ashenia are basically doing the same thing, but I'm not sure if it means they will come in aid of the EoD if attacked by the Concordat, or if the Imperium needs to join in for them to enter. Ashenia would like to keep out of fighting in the same area as Hurosha. Not sure also if they would aid if a counter attack was implemented, or if they are willing to harry in other locations to draw Concordat troops from the battle. Also, we need a plan for if the Salterri block Silver Moon ships from entering the canal, which has been the general historical actions they've taken...

Niskovia is supporting defense if I am attacked, but only will commit to defensive measures and no counter attacks, and would like to remain neutral if at all possible. They'll be our "surprise" reserves if things blow up, and things.

Hurosha is at first doing a neutrality thing to try and keep the Salterri from fully committing troops to the cause. I'm not sure why that keeps them out, in character, but whatever. He's going to help with fortifications, block trade for enemy nations, and do secret actions (not sure what those would be). If the Salterri end up involving themselves anyway, they'll break neutrality in our favor, and come in as reserves or on a harrying front.

Guilder and Raaneka obviuously are all in.

Elemental
2014-12-27, 08:09 AM
Silver Moon and Ashenia are basically doing the same thing, but I'm not sure if it means they will come in aid of the EoD if attacked by the Concordat, or if the Imperium needs to join in for them to enter. Ashenia would like to keep out of fighting in the same area as Hurosha. Not sure also if they would aid if a counter attack was implemented, or if they are willing to harry in other locations to draw Concordat troops from the battle. Also, we need a plan for if the Salterri block Silver Moon ships from entering the canal, which has been the general historical actions they've taken...

We're planning to backstab the lot of you and divide the Central Continent between ourselves and our Concordat allies. We're with you. Unless of course more of those statues should show up in Sulvan's Fury at which point I might need my troops.
As for the Salterri attempting to block Bordeusi ships, they'll only be able to do that if they decide to create a naval blockade, which would immediately signify their coming into the war against us. If they do end up neutral, we'll hold them to freedom on the high seas. My armies of course will travel overland so no issues for me.
And yes, Huroshans and Ashenites on different battlefields to avoid incidents. However, if the need arises, I am fine with my troops riding to the defence of Hurosha or vice versa.

Snowfire
2014-12-27, 08:14 AM
Elemental, I love your round post so much. My kingdom for the ability to upvote <3

I've made a few changes to my round post, significantly noping out any ability for the Imperium to declare war on me by returning all of the stuff the Fellows found in Farridon and I may drop my aquatic unit construction for something more useful. I'm also going to take some time today to ensure that all of my required resources are covered by people who can't be blocked from trading with me. I'm pretty sure I'm all good though.

SamBurke
2014-12-30, 02:25 PM
ALL HANDS ON THE DECK!

The Concordat is drafting a declaration of war against me, and will be sending it sometime soon. Your friendship is greatly appreciated, and I look forward to starting this with you wonderful folks.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 08:32 AM
Now that we have an IC declaration, is there any points in the declaration that you folks would care to bring up for us to address?

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 08:33 AM
Now that we have an IC declaration, is there any points in the declaration that you folks would care to bring up for us to address?

So far we have an attack on three fronts -

Ayava is being attacked.

Clanships is being attacked.

Maos is being attacked.

I've put up my action for a Blockade, Hurosha should do the same.

zabbarot
2014-12-31, 08:57 AM
How is Ayava under attack? It's an under region that only connects to Raaneka proper. They'd have to invade Raaneka to get to it.


The main issue I will raise when I get a chance to write up my reasons for joining the war is that Guilder, as a vassal state of the Empire of Dawn did not have the authority to enter into any agreement with the Concordat. While that does not free them from responsibility for their actions, it does mean that the Concordat must seek any repayment through the head of the Empire.

Basically saying that their declaration of war is illegal by your definitions. There's no international law, so whoever wins the war gets to be right :smalltongue:

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 09:11 AM
How is Ayava under attack? It's an under region that only connects to Raaneka proper. They'd have to invade Raaneka to get to it.


The main issue I will raise when I get a chance to write up my reasons for joining the war is that Guilder, as a vassal state of the Empire of Dawn did not have the authority to enter into any agreement with the Concordat. While that does not free them from responsibility for their actions, it does mean that the Concordat must seek any repayment through the head of the Empire.

Basically saying that their declaration of war is illegal by your definitions. There's no international law, so whoever wins the war gets to be right :smalltongue:

From Eyrecradia. They share an underground border with Ayava.

Which means that Faedas is taking advantage of the situation. I expect its trying to force my hand. She's been hinting that if I bribed her with Domhan, she'd go neutral and not get involved in the war. By attacking Ayava, she's trying to make that a more tantalizing thing. Of course, all that's going to do is close my hand around it. It'd be one thing if she was aiding in the Concordat war. This is just a unjustified attack to harry our forces or to get a reaction out of me. All it will get is less tollerance in allowing them to be my neighbors.

And you raise some good points. They already got recompense by gaining EoD centric technologies, and distributed it.

Elemental
2014-12-31, 10:00 AM
Snowfire: I'm going to send my army to Avaya to help you out. By my count I've got sixteen thousand men with the following techs: Advanced Horse Riding, Blackpowder, Plate Armour, Mithril, and if it stacks, Adamantium as well as a Military 8 leader.
I think I technically have the higher bonus stack, but I'd rather a decisive victory than a technical one.

Lord_Burch
2014-12-31, 10:06 AM
So, the way I see it is that most of our army isn't going to be able to reach or Guilder, or at least isn't likely to. All it would take from the Concordant is winning a tactical maneuvering roll to stop those ships. So, I propose a counter-attack on one of Glazfell's regions- Sycia would be the best, being the center of the Doctrine's religion, but Sympolmeu would do. And with both Elemental and Snowfire in Avaya, it looks like we have that covered, at any rate.

zabbarot
2014-12-31, 10:14 AM
I always forget that Raaneka touches the Heartwaste.

That attack recolors their involvement in the war. It isn't hard to paint them as an expansionist power when you consider the break from Hurosha and all their demands for land.

No more repeating WW2 We wont give them Czechoslovakia. :smalltongue:

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 10:17 AM
Snowfire: I'm going to send my army to Avaya to help you out. By my count I've got sixteen thousand men with the following techs: Advanced Horse Riding, Blackpowder, Plate Armour, Mithril, and if it stacks, Adamantium as well as a Military 8 leader.
I think I technically have the higher bonus stack, but I'd rather a decisive victory than a technical one.

Rather than taking the fight on there terms, what if we couter attacked the heartwaste, to draw them out of the advantageous area of Ayava and into defending their capital instead, where we can use aerial units and the like.


So, the way I see it is that most of our army isn't going to be able to reach or Guilder, or at least isn't likely to. All it would take from the Concordant is winning a tactical maneuvering roll to stop those ships. So, I propose a counter-attack on one of Glazfell's regions- Sycia would be the best, being the center of the Doctrine's religion, but Sympolmeu would do. And with both Elemental and Snowfire in Avaya, it looks like we have that covered, at any rate.

Instead of using ships, why don't you just come by land like Elemental? After all, Maos and Selyra technically border each other, and you'd get a chance to use the Titan as a military stronghold/staging area. :smallamused:

SamBurke
2014-12-31, 10:21 AM
So, the way I see it is that most of our army isn't going to be able to reach or Guilder, or at least isn't likely to. All it would take from the Concordant is winning a tactical maneuvering roll to stop those ships. So, I propose a counter-attack on one of Glazfell's regions- Sycia would be the best, being the center of the Doctrine's religion, but Sympolmeu would do. And with both Elemental and Snowfire in Avaya, it looks like we have that covered, at any rate.

As to the Concordat, we have a vastly superior naval might to support you... they have less than a half-dozen ships.

Elemental
2014-12-31, 10:22 AM
So, the way I see it is that most of our army isn't going to be able to reach or Guilder, or at least isn't likely to. All it would take from the Concordant is winning a tactical maneuvering roll to stop those ships. So, I propose a counter-attack on one of Glazfell's regions- Sycia would be the best, being the center of the Doctrine's religion, but Sympolmeu would do. And with both Elemental and Snowfire in Avaya, it looks like we have that covered, at any rate.

Agreed. It is going to be really difficult to get to Guilder's lands in the East and reinforce them without sufficient naval strength on our side. The only land route is up through Sympolemou, so we'd have to attack there anyway if we can't get passage across the seas.
In any case, I think we can all be agreed of the importance of making sure that they don't try and transport troops across the ocean either.

Snowfire: This is going to be a tight one given that the majority of your military is aerial and can't fight underground, so it'll be rather helpful if you remember to raise your militia.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 10:28 AM
Agreed. It is going to be really difficult to get to Guilder's lands in the East and reinforce them without sufficient naval strength on our side. The only land route is up through Sympolemou, so we'd have to attack there anyway if we can't get passage across the seas.
In any case, I think we can all be agreed of the importance of making sure that they don't try and transport troops across the ocean either.

Snowfire: This is going to be a tight one given that the majority of your military is aerial and can't fight underground, so it'll be rather helpful if you remember to raise your militia.

See my above post - Maos and Selyra count as adjacent, and the Titan creates a bridge for Land troops. You're good to travel there at your leisure.

Instead of defending Ayava, would you be interested in instead of attacking the enemy forces, drawing them to defend elsewhere?

Elemental
2014-12-31, 10:33 AM
See my above post - Maos and Selyra count as adjacent, and the Titan creates a bridge for Land troops. You're good to travel there at your leisure.

Instead of defending Ayava, would you be interested in instead of attacking the enemy forces, drawing them to defend elsewhere?

Apologies. The Edit Post button disappeared.

True, but I don't like the idea of people running around in our lands causing trouble. It doesn't look good from an IC perspective.
But I like the idea of attacking the Heartwaste to draw the troops out of Avaya so the full might of the Raanekan army can get at them. I just hope we don't have a Maur-Alzeroth situation.

New plan Snowfire: Our armies are laying siege to the Heartwaste. Our rulers will have a celebratory toast of Heartwine in the halls of the Ice Palace while our scholars do a thorough job looting their libraries and archives.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 10:37 AM
Apologies. The Edit Post button disappeared.

True, but I don't like the idea of people running around in our lands causing trouble. It doesn't look good from an IC perspective.
But I like the idea of attacking the Heartwaste to draw the troops out of Avaya so the full might of the Raanekan army can get at them. I just hope we don't have a Maur-Alzeroth situation.

New plan Snowfire: Our armies are laying siege to the Heartwaste. Our rulers will have a celebratory toast of Heartwine in the halls of the Ice Palace while our scholars do a thorough job looting their libraries and archives.

Yeah we're in the dice thread. No edits here. Posts count more.

SamBurke
2014-12-31, 10:38 AM
Yeah we're in the dice thread. No edits here. Posts count more.

That's a brilliant idea to hide it. I approve.

Elemental
2014-12-31, 10:38 AM
Yeah we're in the dice thread. No edits here. Posts count more.

May I ask why we're in the dice roll subforum?
And more importantly, why did I only notice now, seconds before someone told me?

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 10:41 AM
May I ask why we're in the dice roll subforum?
And more importantly, why did I only notice now, seconds before someone told me?

As ninja sam said, so people looking for empire threads don't easily see it. They'd have to look at my profile and my recent posts, or any of ours, to do so.

Snowfire
2014-12-31, 10:49 AM
I'd really rather no lose Ayava, if I do my Great Kingdom collapses and suckiness reigns for me until I get a new ruler trained up. Now that said, Elemental, I'm going to shotgun Faedas with my airforce this round, as well as sending some support your way.

Also, Way just suggested that we go for Galie-Noret if we can, as if we take that down Reggie's GK collapses. But I'm totally fine with focusing initially on the Heartwaste whilst my air force raises havoc.

Elemental
2014-12-31, 11:24 AM
I'd really rather no lose Ayava, if I do my Great Kingdom collapses and suckiness reigns for me until I get a new ruler trained up. Now that said, Elemental, I'm going to shotgun Faedas with my airforce this round, as well as sending some support your way.

Also, Way just suggested that we go for Galie-Noret if we can, as if we take that down Reggie's GK collapses. But I'm totally fine with focusing initially on the Heartwaste whilst my air force raises havoc.

Conquest takes two rounds, so we've got some room to breathe if our attack on the Heartwaste doesn't work out. Alternatively, I send all my troops and your land troops to join up with Avaya's militia while your Berunda riders have a field day in the Heartwaste. Actually, I like the latter idea better. Hopefully Faedas's army will come out of the engagement with a lot more losses than my own and if we're really lucky Queen Kyria will be killed, or better, captured, but we shall see.

Also, we should probably be prepared for an attack out of Sympolemou, but we shall see.



Final point before I get to bed: Should we hire out Pavonian mercenaries? If so, when would be the best time to do so? My own feelings say to avoid such an escalation until we need the troops. But on the other hand, I keep finding myself subtly annoyed that no one uses Reader's fluff in that regard.

zabbarot
2014-12-31, 11:24 AM
Not that it matters yet, but if it comes to naval battle, or naval transport is legitimately needed, the Triumvirate has one of the largest navies in the game. The only one that matches it is the Seabourn Confederacy.

TheWombatOfDoom
2014-12-31, 11:34 AM
Conquest takes two rounds, so we've got some room to breathe if our attack on the Heartwaste doesn't work out. Alternatively, I send all my troops and your land troops to join up with Avaya's militia while your Berunda riders have a field day in the Heartwaste. Actually, I like the latter idea better. Hopefully Faedas's army will come out of the engagement with a lot more losses than my own and if we're really lucky Queen Kyria will be killed, or better, captured, but we shall see.

Also, we should probably be prepared for an attack out of Sympolemou, but we shall see.



Final point before I get to bed: Should we hire out Pavonian mercenaries? If so, when would be the best time to do so? My own feelings say to avoid such an escalation until we need the troops. But on the other hand, I keep finding myself subtly annoyed that no one uses Reader's fluff in that regard.

I'd say reach out and ask for the possibility. We can decide when as long as its an if. If the Salterri get involved, he might pull that back.


Not that it matters yet, but if it comes to naval battle, or naval transport is legitimately needed, the Triumvirate has one of the largest navies in the game. The only one that matches it is the Seabourn Confederacy.

And the EoD has a substantial one as well.

Snowfire
2014-12-31, 02:27 PM
Conquest takes two rounds, so we've got some room to breathe if our attack on the Heartwaste doesn't work out. Alternatively, I send all my troops and your land troops to join up with Avaya's militia while your Berunda riders have a field day in the Heartwaste. Actually, I like the latter idea better. Hopefully Faedas's army will come out of the engagement with a lot more losses than my own and if we're really lucky Queen Kyria will be killed, or better, captured, but we shall see.

Also, we should probably be prepared for an attack out of Sympolemou, but we shall see.

Works for me. I have five land units, and if I'm not mistaken a rather unpleasant tech advantage to combine with yours. Also I can (I think) be sure of some help from the Tri there too, as Ayava has one of the only non-Triumvirate Radurjic Holy Orders in the game. Raaneka will surrender control of the battle of Ayava to Ashenia however, as you have far more experience with land armies. And I'll definitely be raising my militia.

Whilst that's all happening though, my airforce is going to hammer Faedas flat. And I'm hugely tempted to try and use some of our navy to deadzone Sympolemou and Glazfell's other sea connection.


Final point before I get to bed: Should we hire out Pavonian mercenaries? If so, when would be the best time to do so? My own feelings say to avoid such an escalation until we need the troops. But on the other hand, I keep finding myself subtly annoyed that no one uses Reader's fluff in that regard.

I'd say reach out and ask for the possibility. We can decide when as long as its an if. If the Salterri get involved, he might pull that back.

Or he might be able to be convinced to use the fact that the Consortium is trying to provoke a proxy war with him and use their (assumed) focus on the North to absolutely murderzone their territory.

On a completely different note, Reggie mentioned in her PM to the EoD an idea for the war entire, that we lock all our military actions for it at a certain date several days before the round end. It prevents ninja-edits and hellish back and forth of units which I think plagued a former war. The Thursday before round end was her suggestion.

Kitsanth
2014-12-31, 06:45 PM
On a completely different note, Reggie mentioned in her PM to the EoD an idea for the war entire, that we lock all our military actions for it at a certain date several days before the round end. It prevents ninja-edits and hellish back and forth of units which I think plagued a former war. The Thursday before round end was her suggestion.

To my knowledge this is an implied rule already.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-02, 12:13 PM
Remember, everyone, to allow troops to pass through your lands.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-02, 12:16 PM
Remember, everyone, to allow troops to pass through your lands.

Oh, should I action that? I thought we had to deny it for it not to go through... I can allow them, and Hurosha just posted a allowance of troops through his lands...on either side. Of course now that I think about it, that might be an issue...if you know, a mass of enemy troops cut you guys off in his lands...

Lord_Burch
2015-01-02, 12:20 PM
Oh, should I action that? I thought we had to deny it for it not to go through... I can allow them, and Hurosha just posted a allowance of troops through his lands...on either side. Of course now that I think about it, that might be an issue...if you know, a mass of enemy troops cut you guys off in his lands...

In the past, unless there's a prior alliance or agreement, troops are not allowed through. I will PM QB presently for confirmation.

Also, please make sure Chief, especially, allows troops through, Way. I know he's probably not going to read this thread, and my plan kind of falls apart.

As for the second- I would consider an attack on troops moving through my lands an invasion. Of course, perhaps Way sees things differently.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-02, 12:22 PM
Oh, and, it might be a good idea to distribute your troops across the battlefield, Wombat, to counter the Concordant's increase for our troops losses. Curse the lack of an edit button...

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-02, 12:57 PM
Oh, and, it might be a good idea to distribute your troops across the battlefield, Wombat, to counter the Concordant's increase for our troops losses. Curse the lack of an edit button...

I'm sorry about the lack of edit. I'm working on troop distribution, but trying to keep my options open for commiting all my troops until everyone posts their involvements. For example, waiting on Glazfell to actually attack, for instance.

WaylanderX
2015-01-02, 01:00 PM
Guys, I have the following proposition (quoting my PM for speed purposes):


Yo Burch and Elemental,

would it be an idea if you guys stayed neutral and I got full on the offensive. I think if (especially Bordeux) got involved, the Salterri would join in as well.

However, if the west stays neutral (for now), I could potentially take over the fighting without the Salterri mingling.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Way

Any thoughts?

WaylanderX
2015-01-02, 01:01 PM
Dangit Edit button!

Also, if even one state of the Salterri get involved, all is moot and we get the west in.

SamBurke
2015-01-02, 01:49 PM
The most important thing for me right now is clarifying where *my* troops go. My actions will be more or less locked by tomorrow, because of spotty internet until the day of the round close.

There will be a small chance of mobile-phone use, so I can get updates. It's not super-likely though, so I need to know.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-06, 08:18 AM
Alright guys, so Morph sent me this:


Empress Myrida Serendel of the Empire of Dawn,


For many years now, the nation of Guilder, variously through action or failure to act, has caused the Imperium much grief.
- After long-standing trade between our nations, they aided in war against the Imperium.
- Their ships smuggled foreign soldiers through the Strait of Diyu to fight in a war at the other end of the world.
- Their former Doge, and first wife to the current one, used advanced technology designed for war to attack the peaceful celebration of the coronation of King Ji Caercia of the Caercian Consortium.
- Promises to make restitution for the above transgressions have not been followed through within the time limits set by the Doge himself.
- Evidence points to Guilder’s involvement in the murders of forty of my close relatives, including many of my own children.

To these grievances you have now added your own. By blocking the trade of the Concordat of Frost and Flame, the Imperium is no longer receiving several resources vital for various population groups within the Imperium.

Therefore, I, Qzare Li Gun Huang Jarrow, Lord Protector of the Imperium, do hereby make the following demands:
- That you cease the blockade of ALL trade of members of the Salterri Imperium with members of the Concordat of Frost and Flame.
- That the Doge Vizini steps down within the year in favour of his son Wesley, for whom we shall find a bride appropriate to his station and wealth, so that the rise of another Buttercup may be prevented.

If you do not comply with these demands, we shall see your neglect and your indirect causation of the suffering of Imperial citizens as a declaration of war, with all results that that implies.


May silver be upon your soul,


Qzare Li Gun Huang Jarrow

Lord Protector of the Salterri Imperium

Archduke of the United Salterri Peoples of the Teires, Chief Wayfinder of the Braîk, Stormlord of Pontensulae, Grand Hunter of the Pillars, Silver Sword of the Holy Land, Steward of Xianzhi Urbe

Shield of the Stürmen, the Komola, the Braîk, the Wyrmar, the Jarrs, the Venns, the Akuul, the Kornandon, the Sylphids, the Kriïti, the Liusi, the Susi, the Helmi, the Maagi, the Sambli, the A-pi, the Dwarves, the Kroi, the Caercians, the Ritians, the Minotines, the Sterks, the Bjurns, the Niemida, the Nixdarum, the Spriggans, the Blood Drinkers, the Celerese, the Bereginians, the Islanders, the Quill, the Frosten, the Tieflings, the Galomyrii, the Pono al a Ono, the Novranians, the Jomani and the Dún

Favoured of Silver, Blessed by Light, Tamer of Fire, Warder of the Wyrm Below, Son of Champions, Father of a Thousand Nations, Smasher of the Stone Men, Uniter of Nations, Burner of a Hundred Mountains, Boiler of a Thousand Seas, Salter of Earth, Smith's Hammer of the Souls of a Legion of Gods

zabbarot
2015-01-06, 10:38 AM
Alright guys, so Morph sent me this:

Guess Sam better roll up a new leader :smalltongue: Also I'm glad Morph went with that. I wasn't sure what his demands would be when I spoke to him. Our conversation was basically "The Qzare runs a huge empire and the Salterri have very specific rules on relations between vassals and liege states, so it would make sense for him to expect the liege to censure the vassal and accept that as a formal resolution to the whole mess." Sometimes diplomacy works :smallcool:

Really though you should talk to him IC and OOC to see how to resolve allowing trade with the Salterri through the blockade. Maybe they can post officers in the blockade fleets to see that properly marked Imperial trade is allowed through?

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-06, 10:48 AM
Guess Sam better roll up a new leader :smalltongue: Also I'm glad Morph went with that. I wasn't sure what his demands would be when I spoke to him. Our conversation was basically "The Qzare runs a huge empire and the Salterri have very specific rules on relations between vassals and liege states, so it would make sense for him to expect the liege to censure the vassal and accept that as a formal resolution to the whole mess." Sometimes diplomacy works :smallcool:

Really though you should talk to him IC and OOC to see how to resolve allowing trade with the Salterri through the blockade. Maybe they can post officers in the blockade fleets to see that properly marked Imperial trade is allowed through?

Yes, but if I allow "some" trade through, other nations will be like - yeah what about my interupted trades! I'll go to war with you if I don't get them!

And provided that this blockade blocks even people with my cause, I'm trying to figure out what kind of message that sends. I've been accused several times of bowing to the whims of the Salterri rather than support and back up my own vassals...

zabbarot
2015-01-06, 10:58 AM
Yes, but if I allow "some" trade through, other nations will be like - yeah what about my interupted trades! I'll go to war with you if I don't get them!

And provided that this blockade blocks even people with my cause, I'm trying to figure out what kind of message that sends. I've been accused several times of bowing to the whims of the Salterri rather than support and back up my own vassals...

Your vassals are active in the war effort so that is different. The Salterri wish to remain neutral and continue trade with all parties. As to people further out... well most of them are either Salterri or have already picked sides, so... I think we're good.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-06, 08:10 PM
@Wombat: If the Salterri join the war against you, you're probably going to lose, even if the Western powers join in. They've got too many troops on their side. That said, if you can get Sam on board with the treaty, assuring their neutrality would be a boon.

My suggestion is that, if you can get their assurances to not retaliate against your allies (presuming that you're referring to Hurosha), I would be more than happy to join in next round. Furthermore, it looks like I will be getting four wards from the Salterri this round. To be clear, though: they would not be hostages. I have no intention of harming them under any circumstances.

Snowfire
2015-01-06, 10:07 PM
I've actually run the math on this, and if we can keep the Imperium out and bring Hurosha in, we hold in Maos regardless of the roll, probably win the battle of Drugard (Hurosha has some aquatic units, I believe, and there's also nothing in the way of Way sending a detachment south to aid in that fight) and Way will be able to completely pepper the North with 1/2 Conquests even if he has to help prop up the balance in Maos if the Dunfel do get involved on the Concordat side.

At which point we don't technically need the West, and bringing you in might void the Imperium's willingness to remain neutral.

Zab, at present it looks like we need the entire Triumvirate army and air force in Maos and your navy helping to attack Drugard. If we get assurance from the Imperium Wombat will be able to deploy his army and that'll tip us far enough to hold Maos unless I completely messed up my math - I'm pretty sure I didn't, and the military table doesn't have Serendel's mass raise of troops last round included. I'll run the numbers again tomorrow.

If the Dunfel deploy everything to Maos...it hurts. Maos comes down to a rolloff instead of a definite victory assuming the Imperium stays out. The key swing point there will be Hurosha (Way, how goes plan P-ROWE-SS, btw?).

With that said however, even if you don't have to fight beside us, from my conversations with Wombat the EoD will not forget that you were ready to come to our aid. We will remember, and I'm pretty sure you'll be thanked for it with more than words.

Thanks for keeping these channels open. It's all we could ask from you as allies :smallsmile:

Kitsanth
2015-01-07, 04:11 AM
*looks at Imperium declaration of intent thingy*

note to self: come up with a bunch of cool titles for official proclamations such as those


Also, I'm still on for assisting with the defence of your core regions if needed.

zabbarot
2015-01-07, 11:08 AM
Apparently at some point Blade told ImperatorV that he has some kind of secret back up, and attempted to scare him out of committing to helping. :smallannoyed: I can't honestly even fathom what secret back up he could have. We've divided all existing players.

The only 'secret' faction that could side with him is the Frosten on the other side of the Ice Wall, but they're on a crusade that doesn't line up with this war at all.

Snowfire
2015-01-07, 11:15 AM
Apparently at some point Blade told ImperatorV that he has some kind of secret back up, and attempted to scare him out of committing to helping. :smallannoyed: I can't honestly even fathom what secret back up he could have. We've divided all existing players.

The only 'secret' faction that could side with him is the Frosten on the other side of the Ice Wall, but they're on a crusade that doesn't line up with this war at all.

Probably meant the Dunfel - Tychris's nomads. Who we can take.

zabbarot
2015-01-07, 12:12 PM
Update: Imp believes Blade is trying to buy him out of the conflict. So we're seeing what he's willing to pay. Not that it keeps the Triumvirate out by any means, but it might stop the assassinations for a bit.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-07, 12:48 PM
Alright, but we'll need you both to post war actions by tomorrow if possible?

WaylanderX
2015-01-08, 07:46 AM
Ok, actions are set. Defending Maos for Great Prowess!

Lord_Burch
2015-01-08, 01:12 PM
I think you need to update Chief about our plans, Way. It'll probably be too late, but, still.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-08, 01:14 PM
I think you need to update Chief about our plans, Way. It'll probably be too late, but, still.

Well, even still at least he's committing, and allowing an IC precedent for if you need entry this round. It could likely be a non action to do so, in anycase.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-11, 05:08 PM
@Zab & Imp- Pending response from QB now, but I think I can cover the attack on Grizzland for you guys, if you don't mind. It'll let you keep your troops helping the EoD, and maintain the neutrality of the west, while still helping the war effort. Of course, I'll need yours and possibly Chief's permission to pass through your lands, but we should be able to work it out. I'll gift the tech he's got to you, of course. Assuming I win, at any rate.

SamBurke
2015-01-11, 05:35 PM
@Zab & Imp- Pending response from QB now, but I think I can cover the attack on Grizzland for you guys, if you don't mind. It'll let you keep your troops helping the EoD, and maintain the neutrality of the west, while still helping the war effort. Of course, I'll need yours and possibly Chief's permission to pass through your lands, but we should be able to work it out. I'll gift the tech he's got to you, of course. Assuming I win, at any rate.

That Grizzland attack though... Holy heck that is a lot of troops.

Also, the Guilderene in me looked at that, and could only see "New tech. Must have." I kinda wanna send Guilderene units just so I can get that new shiny.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-11, 05:42 PM
That Grizzland attack though... Holy heck that is a lot of troops.

Also, the Guilderene in me looked at that, and could only see "New tech. Must have." I kinda wanna send Guilderene units just so I can get that new shiny.

I have... 32,000, I think? Including Alydaxis, of course. I think I'm going to contact Elemental & Kitsanth, see if they want to help. It's close enough of a battle for it to be a bit too risky for me. Cause, I mean, I don't have the navy to stop him if he retreats. If I don't kill him now, he can just come back another day.

SamBurke
2015-01-11, 06:00 PM
I have... 32,000, I think? Including Alydaxis, of course. I think I'm going to contact Elemental & Kitsanth, see if they want to help. It's close enough of a battle for it to be a bit too risky for me. Cause, I mean, I don't have the navy to stop him if he retreats. If I don't kill him now, he can just come back another day.

There is actually good reason for me to send; I have solid techs to bring aboard... +15 or so, I believe, minus some that only apply to land.

Cause you're right; it needs to be a crushing defeat for him.

Snowfire
2015-01-11, 06:55 PM
Let's see how things fall out in the East first for ourselves, Sam.

I do have good news however. By the numbers, our coalition did not in fact lose as badly as it is implied.

Sympol was incorrectly added up at the end: we had a 63 instead of a 58.

Planinfrag totals don't take into account Lyradis agents: we had a 48 instead of a 46.

Frontier totals don't take into account that neither Glazfell nor Tzalteclan had the resources for Black Powder: 63 instead of 65 for them.

And both Rannara and Domhan Abhaile had this same problem, compounded by the fact that both the Kingdom of Serendel and Raaneka have the resources for Black Powder. Those totals flip 4 in our favour, winning us both battles.

I've sent all of this to Quinton at his request, so we're actually in a far better position than things imply. Although those desertion rules are horrific. Someone Cur 10 Military Logistics at some point, or something like that, to try and make it a 33% chance instead of a 50%.

All things considered, we've won the scattergun war extremely well. They should only have 1 territory of ours in conquest, whilst we have 3.

Elemental, you probably noticed I changed my actions to attack Faedas, this was at the suggestion of the Triumvirate so that the signatories could have a non-action conference this round and ask Faedas to defend its action or something. Or, y'know, just declare the Pax broken and Ashenia could invade (if you want to/can Elemental) to remove the Heartwaste from the Freehold so it can be granted to a new governor worth of holding it.

I think that's pretty much it for now. Also, I vote setting the Watcher on Dreadlove. That would be hilarious.

Elemental
2015-01-12, 02:18 AM
I have... 32,000, I think? Including Alydaxis, of course. I think I'm going to contact Elemental & Kitsanth, see if they want to help. It's close enough of a battle for it to be a bit too risky for me. Cause, I mean, I don't have the navy to stop him if he retreats. If I don't kill him now, he can just come back another day.

No need, I noticed already. Given the threat, I'll send my army over to Grizzland and hopefully we'll outnumber his forces enough to kill or capture Dreadlove.



Elemental, you probably noticed I changed my actions to attack Faedas, this was at the suggestion of the Triumvirate so that the signatories could have a non-action conference this round and ask Faedas to defend its action or something. Or, y'know, just declare the Pax broken and Ashenia could invade (if you want to/can Elemental) to remove the Heartwaste from the Freehold so it can be granted to a new governor worth of holding it.

I hope you don't mind if I send my forces to deal with the pirate situation. All things considered, you guys do kind of need to focus on your war and really don't have the troops to handle both.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-12, 08:44 AM
I suppose it was a good thing we didn't get you guys into the war...

zabbarot
2015-01-12, 08:49 AM
Grizzland is fortified btw. So Ill come up with a name for the forts guarding the Western entrance to the canal. Visually this should be a cool battle. See if you can 'loot' cannon tech.

Kitsanth
2015-01-12, 11:45 PM
I have... 32,000, I think? Including Alydaxis, of course. I think I'm going to contact Elemental & Kitsanth, see if they want to help. It's close enough of a battle for it to be a bit too risky for me. Cause, I mean, I don't have the navy to stop him if he retreats. If I don't kill him now, he can just come back another day.

Niskovia lacks a navy and it's air forces consist entirely of airships. And I am unsure if the aerial naval carrier tech would apply to airships given that they are air ships...

*wanders off to speculate in ooc thread*

zabbarot
2015-01-13, 12:17 AM
Niskovia lacks a navy and it's air forces consist entirely of airships. And I am unsure if the aerial naval carrier tech would apply to airships given that they are air ships...

*wanders off to speculate in ooc thread*

They're attacking land, so if you wait on land they'll come to you. No big deal. Also means you benefit from our Fortifications in Grizland

The Salties are definitely joining the war though(the other one), so... hold of on official troop commitments. Keep in mind that Dreadlove has 1 technology only so tech bonuses are huge in that fight.

SamBurke
2015-01-13, 12:23 AM
They're attacking land, so if you wait on land they'll come to you. No big deal. Also means you benefit from our Fortifications in Grizland

The Salties are definitely joining the war though(the other one), so... hold of on official troop commitments. Keep in mind that Dreadlove has 1 technology only so tech bonuses are huge in that fight.

Yeah. We will need more deployments in the Eastern War to keep things balanced, if things go as bad as they're looking.

zabbarot
2015-01-13, 12:39 AM
I'm converting Tzalteclan to LoF. He can embrace it or loose the Carmine Sea as an ally and risk the Salterri leaving the war.

SamBurke
2015-01-13, 12:54 AM
I'm converting Tzalteclan to LoF. He can embrace it or loose the Carmine Sea as an ally and risk the Salterri leaving the war.

Aggressively genius. He might embrace it just cause though.

zabbarot
2015-01-13, 01:04 AM
Aggressively genius. He might embrace it just cause though.

His in character pride conflicts heavily. Also the Lord of Fire religion is not pro slavery.

SamBurke
2015-01-13, 01:16 AM
His in character pride conflicts heavily. Also the Lord of Fire religion is not pro slavery.

True, true. I say do it just for the fun of watching a Teotlklan actually have pressure. Plus their slavery does kind of need to go away.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 07:13 AM
I've got several confirmations from the imperium. They're coming into the war. :smallsigh: Now would be a great time for us to come up with a desertion loss prevention technology. :smallbiggrin:

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 07:27 AM
Yep, its in Aed's actions.

Alright folks. So its been nice knowing you. I'll try to hold the line until the cavalry arrives... :smallsigh:

I guess the good thing about Dread Love is that he blocks anyone from coming through the canal.

The bad news, is that my empire will most likely fall. Probably this turn.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 07:50 AM
Personally, I'm not very impressed with his declaration. It gets a whole bunch of bad things that happened and blames the Empire of Dawn on them and even uses a spurious legal technicality. Based on Jarrland's declaration of claim over what amounts to the remnants of the Ignato Empire, I assume he's only getting into this to get concessions from the Triumvirate.

I may have Ashenia send a counter-declaration of claim and call for a referendum in said territories.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 08:16 AM
Continued on from before because we can't do edits in this thread. This is all your fault Wombat.

My suggestion regarding Jarrland's claim on Nyroth, Woodwind and Aloren is to hold a referendum in those territories on the matter, leaving the result to the GM of course, and see what the people have to say on the matter. If they say no, then if the King of Jarrland tries anything he is a foreign conquered and usurper, if they say yes, get all constitutional and set up a monarchy that doesn't do anything. And whatever you do, remember how amazing local traditions and such are at curtailing foreign claimants.

zabbarot
2015-01-14, 08:40 AM
Continued on from before because we can't do edits in this thread. This is all your fault Wombat.

My suggestion regarding Jarrland's claim on Nyroth, Woodwind and Aloren is to hold a referendum in those territories on the matter, leaving the result to the GM of course, and see what the people have to say on the matter. If they say no, then if the King of Jarrland tries anything he is a foreign conquered and usurper, if they say yes, get all constitutional and set up a monarchy that doesn't do anything. And whatever you do, remember how amazing local traditions and such are at curtailing foreign claimants.

I've already spoken with QB on the matter and we've arranged appropriate tribute.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-14, 10:05 AM
All right, here's my suggestion for a battle plan: Press your advantages. You've got 1/2 conquered in, what, 6 regions? Capture as many as you can. Send a skeleton crew to fend off the Salterri- not to win the battle, just to force their troops to desert. This is pretty drastic, I know, but we're not going to win a straight slug-fest with the Salterri. They have too many troops.

Furthermore, I'm going to try and treat with Dreadlove. Basically, I'm going to try and sic him on the Salterri- plus, of course, it'll free up mine and Elemental's troops.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 10:17 AM
All right, here's my suggestion for a battle plan: Press your advantages. You've got 1/2 conquered in, what, 6 regions? Capture as many as you can. Send a skeleton crew to fend off the Salterri- not to win the battle, just to force their troops to desert. This is pretty drastic, I know, but we're not going to win a straight slug-fest with the Salterri. They have too many troops.

Furthermore, I'm going to try and treat with Dreadlove. Basically, I'm going to try and sic him on the Salterri- plus, of course, it'll free up mine and Elemental's troops.

That's fine, so long as they don't press Borlmyn, or only send minimal amounts of troops until we defend, and then call in reinforcements.

The problem with war is we are playing chess. But we can take backsies after the other person has already made their move. And that is the big problem, and how War always ends up causing OOC strife.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 10:18 AM
All right, here's my suggestion for a battle plan: Press your advantages. You've got 1/2 conquered in, what, 6 regions? Capture as many as you can. Send a skeleton crew to fend off the Salterri- not to win the battle, just to force their troops to desert. This is pretty drastic, I know, but we're not going to win a straight slug-fest with the Salterri. They have too many troops.

Furthermore, I'm going to try and treat with Dreadlove. Basically, I'm going to try and sic him on the Salterri- plus, of course, it'll free up mine and Elemental's troops.

That could work, and it may force the war to an early end or at the least make one or more combatants withdraw their support. We'll have to see how they deploy their troops before we can be certain though.

I wish you the best of luck with that, but I don't see it likely to be successful. As such, I'll leave my deployment as is until I can be certain he's withdrawn from Grizzland.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 10:19 AM
That could work, and it may force the war to an early end or at the least make one or more combatants withdraw their support. We'll have to see how they deploy their troops before we can be certain though.

I wish you the best of luck with that, but I don't see it likely to be successful. As such, I'll leave my deployment as is until I can be certain he's withdrawn from Grizzland.

Would any of you folks be willing to cancel trades with the Concordat or the Salterri Empire at all?

Elemental
2015-01-14, 10:29 AM
Would any of you folks be willing to cancel trades with the Concordat or the Salterri Empire at all?

I won't lie, I asked Aedilred if there was anything Ashenia could do to get him to back down with his declaration, so until I hear back from him I'm not going to commit myself economically. But if he continues with his decision to attack the Empire of Dawn, I will cut all trade with both the Concordat and the Imperium. Not that that really means anything as I'm only exporting salt and dairy products and importing for bronze, corundum, flax and scriveners.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 10:35 AM
I won't lie, I asked Aedilred if there was anything Ashenia could do to get him to back down with his declaration, so until I hear back from him I'm not going to commit myself economically. But if he continues with his decision to attack the Empire of Dawn, I will cut all trade with both the Concordat and the Imperium. Not that that really means anything as I'm only exporting salt and dairy products and importing for bronze, corundum, flax and scriveners.

I thank you for you efforts and support. Myrida is working on a response as of now on Carmine's "proxy" declaration. Most of the stuff on there is unjustified or unproven, and based on the word of people who are attacking us, so yeah.

SamBurke
2015-01-14, 01:35 PM
Yep, its in Aed's actions.

Alright folks. So its been nice knowing you. I'll try to hold the line until the cavalry arrives... :smallsigh:

I guess the good thing about Dread Love is that he blocks anyone from coming through the canal.

The bad news, is that my empire will most likely fall. Probably this turn.
We'll have you, bro. We'll just re-distribute and make it happen. No worries.

If they try to transport troops to anywhere other than you, they die. So we simply defend you. I put in some actions to Shintouite, and everyone else does, you have militia... (I'll trade you Inspired Militia too!) and bam! Turn one may suck, but turn two is our vengeance.



Personally, I'm not very impressed with his declaration. It gets a whole bunch of bad things that happened and blames the Empire of Dawn on them and even uses a spurious legal technicality. Based on Jarrland's declaration of claim over what amounts to the remnants of the Ignato Empire, I assume he's only getting into this to get concessions from the Triumvirate.

I may have Ashenia send a counter-declaration of claim and call for a referendum in said territories.I think the declaration is hilariously bad. Like... their complaints are:
-In helping us fight off an invasion, they only defeated them, even though they could have defeated them more.
-Guilder did some things a while back which they have spent 30 years trying to repay, giving gifts, trying to marry into us, and prevent anyone from ever doing again.
-etc etc

Basically, he wants into the war because he does.


All right, here's my suggestion for a battle plan: Press your advantages. You've got 1/2 conquered in, what, 6 regions? Capture as many as you can. Send a skeleton crew to fend off the Salterri- not to win the battle, just to force their troops to desert. This is pretty drastic, I know, but we're not going to win a straight slug-fest with the Salterri. They have too many troops.

Furthermore, I'm going to try and treat with Dreadlove. Basically, I'm going to try and sic him on the Salterri- plus, of course, it'll free up mine and Elemental's troops.
If you can treat with him, that'd be awesome. I have some emergency buttons I can try and push, and worst comes to worst, we cut off the Imperium from trades. That'll get rid of glass and they'll have to work a lot of things out to get everyone with the techs.


I won't lie, I asked Aedilred if there was anything Ashenia could do to get him to back down with his declaration, so until I hear back from him I'm not going to commit myself economically. But if he continues with his decision to attack the Empire of Dawn, I will cut all trade with both the Concordat and the Imperium. Not that that really means anything as I'm only exporting salt and dairy products and importing for bronze, corundum, flax and scriveners.
Fair.

Tell Bordeaux to do it though; they're trading Glass to the Concordat, which levels the Tac Maneuvering rolls.

TO ALL: I'm looking to pick up any war-based techs you have (Arbequs, Towers, Pavonian, etc). I've got tons of techs, (Refrig is now on the market! And Ultralight!) as well as new open resources. That'd be a great way to help. :smallwink:

zabbarot
2015-01-14, 02:12 PM
I strongly recommend against treating with Dreadlove based on his write up. Unless you think you can trigger his cursed downfall there isn't much point. He's a literal monster.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 02:19 PM
ALright folks, so I formed a response to Aed's declaration. What do you think, before I post it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




For five years have we stayed our hand.

We have endured the privation of a grain blockade that left our people hungry until the Serendels were persuaded to lift it.

We have watched our allies in Glazfell invaded and slandered.

We have seen hired orc barbarians set against the people of the Planinfrag, people who have committed no crime.

We have heard no denial that it was Guilder who did so, though we have seen Guilder, the apparent sponsors of these brigands and traitors, send its own troops to assist their despoliation of the Planinfrag.

We have seen our friends in Faedas attacked by hired killers for having the temerity to defend their allies.

We have seen the Hurosha Empire stir itself to assist the Empire of Dawn in this futile and destructive war, contrary to the Empress's word to our king that they would not.

We have endured the suspicion that Guilderenes were involved in the slaughter of more than forty members of the Imperial household, including many of the Qzare's own infant children, another crime that Guilder has not troubled to deny when challenged, whether by the Silver Throne or the Teotlkan.

We have watched as more than sixty thousand men and women have perished as a result of the arrogance and foolishness of Guilder and its negligent liege and partners.

We have stood by as troops from Requiem, a protectorate of the Imperium, have been deployed into a war we opposed.

Throughout, though our consciences implored us to intervene, we did not, for fear that the terrible death and destruction in this war would become too great to bear.

Thirty years ago a declaration was issued by this crown relating to the actions of Guilder. We see no sign that Guilder has taken this to heart, nor that its liege is minded to compel it to do so. Indeed the Empress of Dawn seems to endorse and support, with the blood of her own and her neighbours' people, all the foolishness that her vassals might perform.

We have seen the Empire of Dawn unleash beasts across the north to devour soldiers defending their homes, beasts it refrained from deploying even against their hated Kell foes, a decision which may well have cost the life of one of our greatest kings, Lord Girard's own uncle. How Gareth must weep to behold his legacy.

Now the Qzare's sister lies dead, at the hands of assassins paid by the Empire of Dawn.

We can endure no longer. Were we to ignore the senseless butchery of the Qzare's sister, atop all the other crimes recently committed, we would no longer be able to consider ourselves concerned with the administration or execution of justice.

In concord with the will of the Qzare, we hereby declare war on behalf of our kingdom, that we may enact justice ourselves.


Eldred, King of the Jarrs, the Venns, the Sylphids and the Elves, Prince of Farridon, Defier of the Dark, Proconsul Carmine, Warden of the East

For five years your "friends and allies" have slain your kinsmen, and you have watched,

We have answered your demands to the letter, that, as I was given the word of the Qzare, if were met, would keep the Salterri Empire from entering the war between the Concordat and the Empire of Dawn. Demands that allowed my enemies to be supplied and outfitted in their ensuing war, and slaughtering more of my own people. Should you have been concerned only with bread for your people while mine were slain, I could have fulfilled that need if it only asked. Lyradis is famous for its grains.

We have been invaded and suffered great loss in defending out lands. Every attack the Empire has made on Glazfell lands was tactical, and provided that they declared war on our lands, perfectly within our rights to establish.

The people of Planninfrag, and further, the people of Glazfell and Tzalteclan in general, have been found to be the bloodthirsty peoples that they accuse the Orcs of being. Look to the peoples of your own lands, and of mine. We harbor the orcs as a great and valuable people, and too long has the Empire of Dawn watched as these people in the east have been pushed out of their own lands, and persecuted and subjected to by these people, without mercy. The people of Planninfrag are being attacked by the Orcs by their own selfish campaign to drive back the Orcs from their homelands. As for the Orcs attacking the Clanships, the diplomatic relations between Guilder and Stormskrull were sabatoged, and this event caused the invasion to occur. Guilder did not have time to respond to accusations, as by that time, the war mongering Concordat had fallen upon them in many fronts.

(I'm not sure what you are referencing in the hired killers bit against Faedas...)

Hurosha has a signed alliance with the Empire of Dawn, in which in times of war, it will Militarily defend the Empire. It did not agressively involve any troops in the war, and only deployed defensive units to aid us in the invasion. Further, the Salterri Imperium did not list Hurosha's involvement, or lack there of, as a condition of their refrain from entering the war. Further, it is outrioght offensive and villianous to accuse my defense of my people as "futile, destriuctive and negligent". I will do what I must to see the safety of my Kingdom, just as you would yours.

In regards to the massacre of the members of the Imperium household, the Empire of Dawn sends its deepest regards and would dearly like to send help in investigating this malicious crime, however, since the Imperium should choose to trust the investigations of those who were also planning to declare war on my Empire, I would refrain from being so quick to trust their judgements, especially when finding a member of your own Imperium as equally guilty. Since I have no further proof to disuade these accusations, I would invite you investigate Guilder, and give this Empire that which is common justice - innocent until proven without a doubt to be guilty. Otherwise, your act of war shall be deemed a refusal of such justice be had for these murders, instead finding the culprit that "best fits" your design.

As for lives lost, my accounts of the battle count 34 thousand men and women from both sides of the war that could have avoided their untimely deaths thanks to Concordat aggression in unrightfully claiming the lands of the Empire of Dawn as their own. While this is a much smaller number than the one that you give, we still mourn for the losses of both nations. Given that your statistic is largely inaccurate, it would seem that whatever venue that you get your information may not be entirely accurate.

The troops from Requiem were deployed in defense of the Serendel nations themselves, and should this not been an acceptable method of deployment, I would have expected such deliniation from the Qzare in the century it has been part of Serendel. If the people of Requiem cannot be allowed to defend their own kingdom and brothers, then I ask what they are expected to do in such times?

The Empire of Dawn chose to support you in your battle with the Kell not out of bloodlust, but out of recognition of the dangers of an old foe. Your kingdom stated there was not much need, but we sent 10,000 troops despite this, to ensure that no trickery from the Kell were to be had. To suggest we had such beasts at our command to support you in your conquest of the south shows me you know nothing of my lands. Has it not only become recent technology to Master Beasts? Do not speak to me of Gareth's legacy. His legacy charges each ruler that we must protect the people no matter what the cost. Each soldier that died in the war with the Concordat knew this, and made the same sacrifice Gareth made for his country by giving their lives to protect their nation.

And this final accusation above all the rest, leads me to believe that there will be no recourse. No hand of the Empire has paid assassins for ANY death. Not the lands of Raaneka, nor the lands of Guilder, nor I, Empress Myrida Serendel, have attacked the Qzare's sister, nor know of any that have willingly done so. No, such accusations without merrit tell me that instead of declaring a list of rightful reasons to declare war on my Empire, instead you are attacking what you want, and projecting reasons to it.

A word was given by your Qzare that your people would stay out of the war, should we answer your demands. Instead, it seems staying your hand was only a tactic to strike at my people and lands while we have been weakened by an enemy. If you harbour any form of honor, I would implore you study the way the Empire of Dawn has acted historically. We do not assassinate, or poison. We do not war monger. We defend the people who have chosen to be a part of this Great empire. We defend it for truth and justice. For honor. For life. It would seem those who are against us would like to point all of these malhappenings of the past three decades squarely on the shoulders of the Empire of Dawn. I say unto you, look deeper, for you are being deceived. Look deeper, for if you do not, you are playing to the whims of one who seeks chaos over order, and I fear it will not stop with the setting of the Sun.

-Empress Myrida Serendel, Daughter of Girard, Ruler of The Empire of Dawn.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 02:39 PM
(I'm not sure what you are referencing in the hired killers bit against Faedas...)

There was an event where political radicals attacked Kyria Varinel and blinded her while she was in Sympolemou and there was a similar attack back in the Heartwaste where Li Huanle Jarrow was slain.

Basically, internal strife in the Heartwaste and they've decided to blame the Empire of Dawn on it for fun.

SamBurke
2015-01-14, 02:45 PM
Basically, [stuff] and they've decided to blame the Empire of Dawn on it for fun.

I feel like we can just make this the declaration.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 02:54 PM
Thanks Elemental. I take it you like it? Have a bit of strife today IRL, so I channeled it into the response...:smallredface:

Elemental
2015-01-14, 02:58 PM
I feel like we can just make this the declaration.

I agree. It is a good way of summing everything up.


Thanks Elemental. I take it you like it? Have a bit of strife today IRL, so I channeled it into the response...:smallredface:

It's pretty good. You've addressed all the relevant points and laid their hypocrisy bare for the world to examine. Had I written it there may have been a bit too much vitriol, but you managed to keep that in check, which is good.

zabbarot
2015-01-14, 02:59 PM
There was an event where political radicals attacked Kyria Varinel and blinded her while she was in Sympolemou and there was a similar attack back in the Heartwaste where Li Huanle Jarrow was slain.

Basically, internal strife in the Heartwaste and they've decided to blame the Empire of Dawn on it for fun.

Based on an analysis of secret actions and knowing what half the people who took them last round did there are only three candidates for having sent the Assassins. Morph, Aed, and Reader. I'm fairly certain that the kidnapping was Aedilbread, and I doubt Morph killed his own character as a ploy.

That said, I feel really bad for Reader if I am successful in figuring it out IC. : /

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-14, 03:01 PM
I agree. It is a good way of summing everything up.



It's pretty good. You've addressed all the relevant points and laid their hypocrisy bare for the world to examine. Had I written it there may have been a bit too much vitriol, but you managed to keep that in check, which is good.

Oh, so much Vitriol that I WANTED to put in. If I get a bad message back from Carmine, rest assure, it will be dripping with the stuff. Myrida won't back down, but she's still got somewhat of a diplomatic edge as well.

zabbarot
2015-01-14, 03:02 PM
It's pretty good. You've addressed all the relevant points and laid their hypocrisy bare for the world to examine. Had I written it there may have been a bit too much vitriol, but you managed to keep that in check, which is good.

I on the other hand will take care of all the vitriol for you. Promise. Three crates of it.

SamBurke
2015-01-14, 03:03 PM
I agree. It is a good way of summing everything up.



It's pretty good. You've addressed all the relevant points and laid their hypocrisy bare for the world to examine. Had I written it there may have been a bit too much vitriol, but you managed to keep that in check, which is good.
Amen. That's why Wombat is the Emperor and not me.


Based on an analysis of secret actions and knowing what half the people who took them last round did there are only three candidates for having sent the Assassins. Morph, Aed, and Reader. I'm fairly certain that the kidnapping was Aedilbread, and I doubt Morph killed his own character as a ploy.

That said, I feel really bad for Reader if I am successful in figuring it out IC. : /
If he assassinated--- then he's gotta be aware there are consequences to that stuff.

Still, I'd guess it's Aed, as he's very, very, interested in coming up with reasons.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 03:38 PM
Based on an analysis of secret actions and knowing what half the people who took them last round did there are only three candidates for having sent the Assassins. Morph, Aed, and Reader. I'm fairly certain that the kidnapping was Aedilbread, and I doubt Morph killed his own character as a ploy.

That said, I feel really bad for Reader if I am successful in figuring it out IC. : /

Given that Kyria and Huanle were attacked in similar attacks with silver weapons and their screaming about "true bloods" indicates that this is likely the work of political radicals rather than a hostile act by a foreign government.

Anyways... About figuring it out, I've offered to Aedilred to send people out to investigate the matter. I shall see what he says and then get permission from Reggie to send investigators. I'm kind of hoping that Ashenia is still viewed with enough trust to accomplish that.



Oh, so much Vitriol that I WANTED to put in. If I get a bad message back from Carmine, rest assure, it will be dripping with the stuff. Myrida won't back down, but she's still got somewhat of a diplomatic edge as well.

In a way, I kind of want them to send a disrespectful response...



Amen. That's why Wombat is the Emperor and not me.


If he assassinated--- then he's gotta be aware there are consequences to that stuff.

Still, I'd guess it's Aed, as he's very, very, interested in coming up with reasons.

Agreed. All hail Wombat! Except me, I hail no one.

I disagree. See my theory concerning internal difficulties in Faedas. Believe it or not, not everything is the result of people scheming in the shadows.

zabbarot
2015-01-14, 03:45 PM
Given that Kyria and Huanle were attacked in similar attacks with silver weapons and their screaming about "true bloods" indicates that this is likely the work of political radicals rather than a hostile act by a foreign government.

Anyways... About figuring it out, I've offered to Aedilred to send people out to investigate the matter. I shall see what he says and then get permission from Reggie to send investigators. I'm kind of hoping that Ashenia is still viewed with enough trust to accomplish that.

I was told that it was done by a player action directly. So... that effects my assumptions.

zabbarot
2015-01-14, 03:46 PM
I was told that it was done by a player action directly. So... that effects my assumptions.

Actually... it was definitely Reader. Pavonia has a different type of vampire. That's where the screams about 'true bloods' comes from.

SamBurke
2015-01-14, 03:47 PM
I was told that it was done by a player action directly. So... that effects my assumptions.

This.

That said, there could be some other, less machination-y reason.

Theoretically there could be. :smallwink:

Elemental
2015-01-14, 04:02 PM
I was told that it was done by a player action directly. So... that effects my assumptions.

Actually... it was definitely Reader. Pavonia has a different type of vampire. That's where the screams about 'true bloods' comes from.

Well. I still stand by my statement regarding scheming and shadows. Still, I'm going to investigate if Aedilred wants me to. If I find evidence that it was Pavonia, the armies of the Imperium may just turn right around and head South.
Faedas too if we're lucky but I wouldn't count on it.

Snowfire
2015-01-14, 04:09 PM
Faedas too if we're lucky but I wouldn't count on it.

If they don't can we get you to roflstomp them for breach of the Pax? :smalltongue:

Elemental
2015-01-14, 04:29 PM
If they don't can we get you to roflstomp them for breach of the Pax? :smalltongue:

Well, given that they neglected to raise their militia last round and likely will this round as well, the majority of their regions are undefended so I could just divide my army equally between all of their regions and aim to conquer them all simultaneously. I won't lie, I enjoy a properly executed blitzkrieg.
But there's still the Dreadlove situation. One can't have marauding pirates despoiling Grizzland and taking advantage of us all. All in all, I may be attempting to juggle too much at once.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-14, 04:37 PM
Well, given that they neglected to raise their militia last round and likely will this round as well, the majority of their regions are undefended so I could just divide my army equally between all of their regions and aim to conquer them all simultaneously. I won't lie, I enjoy a properly executed blitzkrieg.
But there's still the Dreadlove situation. One can't have marauding pirates despoiling Grizzland and taking advantage of us all. All in all, I may be attempting to juggle too much at once.

Hey, at this point, I'm confidant I can handle Dreadlove by myself, and definitely so with Celero and the SC, should they stay. So there's no worries with that situation.

Snowfire
2015-01-14, 04:40 PM
Well, given that they neglected to raise their militia last round and likely will this round as well, the majority of their regions are undefended so I could just divide my army equally between all of their regions and aim to conquer them all simultaneously. I won't lie, I enjoy a properly executed blitzkrieg.
But there's still the Dreadlove situation. One can't have marauding pirates despoiling Grizzland and taking advantage of us all. All in all, I may be attempting to juggle too much at once.

Dreadlove is toast. 32 from Burch, at least 1 from me, something probably from Guilder (let's say 1), the remaining Triumvirate Navy (4), Crima's Navy too probably (3?), likely something from Hurosha (1 + maybe avatar?), the SC (13?) and then +15 minimum from techs all on a Mil 10.

So that's...32 + 1 + 1 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 13 + 15 +10 = 80

Against...48?

I think we're good.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 05:40 PM
Dreadlove is toast. 32 from Burch, at least 1 from me, something probably from Guilder (let's say 1), the remaining Triumvirate Navy (4), Crima's Navy too probably (3?), likely something from Hurosha (1 + maybe avatar?), the SC (13?) and then +15 minimum from techs all on a Mil 10.

So that's...32 + 1 + 1 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 13 + 15 +10 = 80

Against...48?

I think we're good.

Looks like I may just have to invade Faedas then. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this. Ah well...
They have six regions, I have sixteen thousand troops. That's two thousand troops a region with four thousand left over.
However, they have an army sixteen thousand strong if my calculations are correct. Snow, how many troops do you think you can spare to aid in conquest? Ultimately what I do with my troops depends on what Reggie does with hers. I'd rather avoid a large battle, but it may be inevitable.

Also, I spoke to Kitsanth, and she said she'd probably be sending her army to Domhan Abheile.

Snowfire
2015-01-14, 05:52 PM
Looks like I may just have to invade Faedas then. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this. Ah well...
They have six regions, I have sixteen thousand troops. That's two thousand troops a region with four thousand left over.
However, they have an army sixteen thousand strong if my calculations are correct. Snow, how many troops do you think you can spare to aid in conquest? Ultimately what I do with my troops depends on what Reggie does with hers. I'd rather avoid a large battle, but it may be inevitable.

Also, I spoke to Kitsanth, and she said she'd probably be sending her army to Domhan Abheile.

Honestly I'd say go right for the Heartwaste under the justification of Breach of the Pax. If yourself and the Empire of the Silver Moon both condemn them for that, that would be a solid bloc of signatories. Heartwaste is what the Pax is founded on. If Faedas tries to defend militarily against what is pretty much as close to legal removal of territory as we can get, then they're refusing to abide by the treaty they signed and being the aggressors in pretty much every way possible.

Or possibly demand that they surrender the Heartwaste for the reasons I threw at them, and if/when they refuse, use it as a (perfectly valid) reason to smash them into the ground.

As to my reserves, I've got 20 units available this round. Some are naval, which can't be involved, but I've got a solid core of untouched land units I can send to help you. Also, whilst Reggie has a pretty large army, her tech base is far, far weaker than your own. I know I'll have to deploy some of my units - possibly slightly more than half - to defensive deployments in the EoD/aggressive movements against Glazfell. As for the rest, as much of it as I can spare is yours. If you want, I'll try to make as much of it as possible aerial. Berundas are pretty awesome.

Snowfire
2015-01-14, 06:01 PM
Added notes because no editing:

If Niskovia is coming to help in our core territories, that's great. It'll certainly help secure Domhan.

Also, remember that you have as of this round a vassal with ten thousand troops. Sure, they won't countenance their use against the Doctrine perhaps, but Faedas follows Kina. I somehow doubt they'd have a problem with, say, going after her polar/icy regions. You know, with Ice Sailing :smallamused:

Elemental
2015-01-14, 06:23 PM
Or possibly demand that they surrender the Heartwaste for the reasons I threw at them, and if/when they refuse, use it as a (perfectly valid) reason to smash them into the ground.

As to my reserves, I've got 20 units available this round. Some are naval, which can't be involved, but I've got a solid core of untouched land units I can send to help you. Also, whilst Reggie has a pretty large army, her tech base is far, far weaker than your own. I know I'll have to deploy some of my units - possibly slightly more than half - to defensive deployments in the EoD/aggressive movements against Glazfell. As for the rest, as much of it as I can spare is yours. If you want, I'll try to make as much of it as possible aerial. Berundas are pretty awesome.

My preliminary declaration is more or less along those lines. Abdicate from the Throne of Thorns and I won't come over and beat you up sort of thing. Of course, if they do give up the Heartwaste, then I kind of can't do a thing to them.

I'll give some thought to what I'll need. I might go against the Heartwaste alone so you can deploy all of your troops elsewhere. Plus it makes it harder for them to accuse us of making up the whole Pax excuse. They will anyway, because that's what we're doing, but what the hey.
Unless of course the Concordat comes to help them out. Then I'll need help.



Also, remember that you have as of this round a vassal with ten thousand troops. Sure, they won't countenance their use against the Doctrine perhaps, but Faedas follows Kina. I somehow doubt they'd have a problem with, say, going after her polar/icy regions. You know, with Ice Sailing :smallamused:

I do. I was planning on holding them in reserve though, especially as near as I can tell Faedas exchanged Wenyavuk for Keldagrim so Ice Sailing is more or less useless.



Anyways: Here's the draft of my declaration of war against the Kingdom of the Heartwaste:

I, Kellan Toranath III, King of Ashenia, regretfully inform all nations of the world that we are forced to recognise that the Pax Varinel has been broken by the very nation it was formulated to protect. Though I do this with a heavy heart, I hereby declare that a state of conflict shall now exist between the Kingdom of Ashenia and the Kingdom of the Heartwaste and indeed the entirety of the Faedas Freehold.
I urge Her Majesty Kyria Varinel to abdicate the Throne of Thorns and allow a quorum of the signatories of the Pax Varinel to select her successor from all living members of the Varinel family with the wisdom and merit to reign over the Heartwaste.
Failure to assent to this request will constitute a declaration of war against the Kingdom of Ashenia. I plead with you, if there is kindness in your comply. Do not let your lands become scarred and your peoples suffer needlessly.
May Yphine have mercy on our souls.

Signed sealed and dated at the Rotan Palace, 491.

zabbarot
2015-01-14, 06:45 PM
I like it, Elemental. Straight to the point.


Also, that vitriol (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?393024-Empire!-A-question-of-governance) I promised.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 06:57 PM
I like it, Elemental. Straight to the point.

Of course, it has the unintended drawback of if they decide to hand the Heartwaste over I more or less have no legitimate reason to continue a war against them.

Snowfire
2015-01-14, 07:25 PM
If they give up the Heartwaste, they give up one of their most important regions, which is also now their capital. I really cannot see them doing that.

Elemental
2015-01-14, 07:31 PM
I don't see it as very likely either, but it is a possibility and I would be very impressed if they did use that option.

SamBurke
2015-01-14, 09:11 PM
Unless of course the Concordat comes to help them out. Then I'll need help.
If they do that, then we destroy them across the far-east front, which is their primary concern.


I don't see it as very likely either, but it is a possibility and I would be very impressed if they did use that option.

I would be too, but if it is their capitol region... :xykon:

@Lord_Burch: I'd love to talk to you about Arbequs tech, and a trade. We can do that via PM, in this round's trade thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392997-Guilderene-Trade-Summit-the-Second-492-No-RP-required&p=18657905#post18657905), or anywhere works for you.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-15, 08:31 AM
Alright folks, we are public with my declaration. I assume it won't do anything, but eh, there's always the long shot.

Elemental, any luck with Carmine?

I'm considering having the militia and people of the regions they attack give peaceful protest of their attack...so basically, unarmed civilians, standing on the border.

Elemental
2015-01-15, 08:37 AM
Elemental, any luck with Carmine?

Nothing concrete. But I launched an investigation into the murder of Li Huanle Jarrow and I rolled pretty well too. Hopefully I'll be successful in uncovering the true culprit and taking the wind out of their declaration.
Plus, I asked Kitsanth if she could investigate the Lotus Murders and I sent a PM to DoomHat asking if he could look into the whole proxy war thing. No guarantees there though.

Snowfire
2015-01-15, 08:43 AM
I'm considering having the militia and people of the regions they attack give peaceful protest of their attack...so basically, unarmed civilians, standing on the border.

That will be an absolute PR nightmare for them if they give a soviet reaction. I approve.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-15, 08:47 AM
Nothing concrete. But I launched an investigation into the murder of Li Huanle Jarrow and I rolled pretty well too. Hopefully I'll be successful in uncovering the true culprit and taking the wind out of their declaration.
Plus, I asked Kitsanth if she could investigate the Lotus Murders and I sent a PM to DoomHat asking if he could look into the whole proxy war thing. No guarantees there though.

Alright. We need to set up some scenarios then, because its getting to the half way point of the round, and I want to know who we have coming in, verses who we don't.

It seems the Seabourn Confederation and Celero and Crima along with Burch are dealing with Dread Love, who is currently making the Blockade unneeded, since he's literally in the canal, smashing out locks... That'll keep the main navy out of the war this round, at least.

However, they've got a crap load of land units, and some aerial. I anticipate them hitting at least Grmanhil and Triumph, but wouldn't be surprised of any of the other southern holdings of the empire.

Is there any region in the west that might be good to settle as EoD territory as a last retreat, should it come to that? Basically, make a New New Lyradis, or something.

Let's go with the Imperium gets involved as our anticipated actions, and we can always back off if they do, but I don't see it happening. Carmine is likely too proud to be told that they are wrong, and they're going to regret it if they do...

Elemental
2015-01-15, 09:07 AM
Is there any region in the west that might be good to settle as EoD territory as a last retreat, should it come to that? Basically, make a New New Lyradis, or something.

Let's go with the Imperium gets involved as our anticipated actions, and we can always back off if they do, but I don't see it happening. Carmine is likely too proud to be told that they are wrong, and they're going to regret it if they do...

Region 72 seems a little creepy, but 140 seems alright. Plus, there's always Cantroth. I think it's still free.
Failing that, the region under Ashenia is still empty, if you want to brave the proximity to the creepy statues.

Given their apparent anger over the murder of Huanle, I personally wouldn't be surprised if they turned around and went after the actual perpetrator upon discovering the truth. Especially as I asked them if they wanted me to perform the investigation and they said yes.
Of course, if the investigation somehow returns a result of Guilder being responsible I think you all should just surrender and hope you aren't thrown to the lions.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-15, 09:23 AM
Region 72 seems a little creepy, but 140 seems alright. Plus, there's always Cantroth. I think it's still free.
Failing that, the region under Ashenia is still empty, if you want to brave the proximity to the creepy statues.

Given their apparent anger over the murder of Huanle, I personally wouldn't be surprised if they turned around and went after the actual perpetrator upon discovering the truth. Especially as I asked them if they wanted me to perform the investigation and they said yes.
Of course, if the investigation somehow returns a result of Guilder being responsible I think you all should just surrender and hope you aren't thrown to the lions.

Well, it obviously wasn't Guilder, but if someone REALLY hates us and places more false evidence, huzzah. The results from the investigation won't happen until the end of the round, and frankly I'm assuming the Concordat hired Pavonia to do it, since they have mercenaries. But there's always the Concordat doing it themselves, or the Imperium itself, which if you discovered that would be wonderful.

So I doubt they'll turn around this round, but perhaps next after they have thoroughly hit us.

SamBurke
2015-01-15, 10:01 AM
Region 72 seems a little creepy, but 140 seems alright. Plus, there's always Cantroth. I think it's still free.
Failing that, the region under Ashenia is still empty, if you want to brave the proximity to the creepy statues.

Given their apparent anger over the murder of Huanle, I personally wouldn't be surprised if they turned around and went after the actual perpetrator upon discovering the truth. Especially as I asked them if they wanted me to perform the investigation and they said yes.
Of course, if the investigation somehow returns a result of Guilder being responsible I think you all should just surrender and hope you aren't thrown to the lions.
Guilder's worst quality is that occasionally it forgets trades. Assassinations: not a thing. That said, I did post a secret action, so that makes me particularly easy as a target of libel.


Well, it obviously wasn't Guilder, but if someone REALLY hates us and places more false evidence, huzzah. The results from the investigation won't happen until the end of the round, and frankly I'm assuming the Concordat hired Pavonia to do it, since they have mercenaries. But there's always the Concordat doing it themselves, or the Imperium itself, which if you discovered that would be wonderful.
Considering that Morph basically sent to Quinton and said "I want these people to be responsible" I find this likely.

zabbarot
2015-01-15, 10:04 AM
Well, I think the Question of governance is drawing to a close. I hope at least. : /

SamBurke
2015-01-15, 10:09 AM
Well, I think the Question of governance is drawing to a close. I hope at least. : /

But there was so much good sass... :smallfrown: :smallcool:

EDIT: I read it... I came, I saw, I laughed uproariously. :smallbiggrin:

zabbarot
2015-01-15, 10:15 AM
But there was so much good sass... :smallfrown: :smallcool:

EDIT: I read it... I came, I saw, I laughed uproariously. :smallbiggrin:

If he pushes it further his people will be demanding elections and representation next round. :smallwink:

SamBurke
2015-01-15, 10:17 AM
If he pushes it further his people will be demanding elections and representation next round. :smallwink:

One thing I've always wanted is Diplomatic conversions; of various rulership types and such. :smallwink:

Kitsanth
2015-01-15, 05:34 PM
so investigate those Lotus murders check

and was there anywhere my army can be of assistance per the terms of our treaty?

Snowfire
2015-01-15, 06:29 PM
so investigate those Lotus murders check

and was there anywhere my army can be of assistance per the terms of our treaty?

Securing Domhan to ensure it doesn't get 2/2 conquered I think is the only place we'd really ask you to be, as anywhere else would probably have you ending up in the firing line of the Salterri. And I'd rather avoid that if possible.

Elemental
2015-01-15, 07:05 PM
So I doubt they'll turn around this round, but perhaps next after they have thoroughly hit us.

I meant that the results would likely result in them turning back next turn. Here's hoping it works.



Guilder's worst quality is that occasionally it forgets trades. Assassinations: not a thing. That said, I did post a secret action, so that makes me particularly easy as a target of libel.

And that's why I never post secret actions. Plus, I can never think of any.

SamBurke
2015-01-15, 07:22 PM
And that's why I never post secret actions. Plus, I can never think of any.

Same. I didn't do very many of those even in the past.

Elemental
2015-01-15, 10:27 PM
News of a sort: It has been rather effectively argued to me that I can't unilaterally declare Kyria in violation of the Pax and go to war to depose her. So... Yeah... I'm going to have to deploy my troops elsewhere.
On the plus side! I'm holding a catered conference next round!

Kitsanth
2015-01-15, 11:13 PM
Securing Domhan to ensure it doesn't get 2/2 conquered I think is the only place we'd really ask you to be, as anywhere else would probably have you ending up in the firing line of the Salterri. And I'd rather avoid that if possible.

actioned, and now to write one of those declaration things so people don't get miffed for any reason

SamBurke
2015-01-15, 11:20 PM
actioned, and now to write one of those declaration things so people don't get miffed for any reason

YEAH DECLARATIONS. Guilder should really get one of those shouldn't it...

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-16, 08:42 AM
Elemental, what was the deciding factor with the non invasion, if you don't mind me asking? I'm not upset about it or anything, more just curious and trying to see what's going on. I estimate that a few of my nations will be getting attacked this round, but my biggest concern is Grmanhil, and possibly places such as Requiem or Triumph. Still waiting on declarations from Morph, and the rest of the Imperium...

Also, from what I hear, Zab is going to try and find out about the assassination in a thread THIS round, so we might be able to avoid the thing all together. Perhaps if you talk to Zab, you can aid in his investigation.

Kitsanth, thank you for your support. I will not forget this...or all of you for that matter. I fear this may not be the last we see of the Salterri Imperium...and their attempts to expand influence outside of their empire.

zabbarot
2015-01-16, 09:53 AM
It is probably for the best if Elemental is not aware of my investigative efforts IC. Hushyarr's methods would likely be frowned upon. He's basically searching through the spirit world for Huanle's soul.

Elemental
2015-01-16, 10:49 AM
Elemental, what was the deciding factor with the non invasion, if you don't mind me asking? I'm not upset about it or anything, more just curious and trying to see what's going on. I estimate that a few of my nations will be getting attacked this round, but my biggest concern is Grmanhil, and possibly places such as Requiem or Triumph. Still waiting on declarations from Morph, and the rest of the Imperium...

It was rather cleverly pointed out to me that other people aside from Ashenia signed the Pax Varinel and they might theoretically have some say in how it should be executed in a situation it wasn't designed for. I ran the numbers (i.e, I counted and divided by two) and even if all the Pax signatories on our side voted to remove Kyria from power in the Heartwaste, we still wouldn't have a majority.
The conference I'm holding (link for Burch and Snowfire in case they missed it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?393243-The-Quorum-of-the-Pax-Varinel&p=18665456)) is a delaying action which has the side benefit of holding up some of Reggie's troops.



It is probably for the best if Elemental is not aware of my investigative efforts IC. Hushyarr's methods would likely be frowned upon. He's basically searching through the spirit world for Huanle's soul.

The main issue with that is it probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law...

zabbarot
2015-01-16, 11:21 AM
The main issue with that is it probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law...

It's intended to be a personal appeal to the Qzar. Partially because Morph still expects me to help with his miracle and Aedilred shot all of our preplanned fluff to build up to that to hell at the Grand Ball, and partially because Morph and I had joked about Mosi teleporting in on someone and starting a surprise RP months ago so it seems fitting to do it to him.

zabbarot
2015-01-16, 11:26 AM
Forgot to ask. Since the Ignato Empire is no more and the Triumvirate has so far upheld all of it's other treaties, are we considered signatories? I think we could make a claim that we are, but I imagine some might try to block that.

Snowfire
2015-01-16, 11:29 AM
Also, Elemental, Guilder signed the Pax as well, so they probably merit an invite as well. Unless you have specific reasons to exclude them.

SamBurke
2015-01-16, 02:36 PM
Also, Elemental, Guilder signed the Pax as well, so they probably merit an invite as well. Unless you have specific reasons to exclude them.

/\ The above sums up my feelings.

zabbarot
2015-01-16, 02:59 PM
Unrelated to anything, but Sam, I've seen you do this /\ a few times.

Why don't you just use karat? ^_^

SamBurke
2015-01-16, 03:02 PM
Unrelated to anything, but Sam, I've seen you do this /\ a few times.

Why don't you just use karat? ^_^

Because it's harder to find on my keyboard, and I'd never done it before. ^ works as well as /\, though those latter two look prettier on Skype IMO.

Elemental
2015-01-17, 12:18 AM
Also, Elemental, Guilder signed the Pax as well, so they probably merit an invite as well. Unless you have specific reasons to exclude them.

Somehow, when I went through and checked for all the signatories, I somehow missed Guilder. I see no reason why they cannot attend.



Forgot to ask. Since the Ignato Empire is no more and the Triumvirate has so far upheld all of it's other treaties, are we considered signatories? I think we could make a claim that we are, but I imagine some might try to block that.

It's a tricky question and their are arguments for and against, but I'm going to go with probably not.
Ultimately, there's nothing stopping you from showing up unannounced to observe the proceedings, but I'd be obliged to kick you out if you caused the slightest bit of trouble.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-17, 10:05 AM
Well folks:

[487] Tzaltec investigators, intent on finding the perpetrators of the Lotus Massacres hunt down with unbridled zeal every lead they can find. After the explosion at the end of their previous investigation the Tzaltec decide to send Unmarked to infiltrate the smuggling and black market trade in the Imperium, specifically coming through Diamondhead. The undercover operatives report back to their Tzaltec handlers of evidence indicating possible Guilderene involvement to the high hopes of the Tzaltec war machine. Further communiques indicate however that it appears Guilder's government was not involved at all in the shipments of exotic materials used by the killers though forged documents discovered indicate Guilder was intended to be framed for the murders along with the Old Guild of the Triumvirate. Who actually ordered the framing and the killings remains an unknown though the Tzaltec operatives remain in cover as chatter indicates the underworld is due a visit from a "wealthy patron" who "had lots of work for everyone" a few months prior which has been indicated to be the Lotus Massacre.

--

Guilder is clear of the Lotus Killings.

Kitsanth
2015-01-17, 05:41 PM
still, I hope to uncover who exactly is behind it as several cousins of House Nisakovich were killed as a result

SamBurke
2015-01-19, 03:39 PM
Somehow, when I went through and checked for all the signatories, I somehow missed Guilder. I see no reason why they cannot attend.

Sounds good. I'll try and write some stuff, but this week is busy.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-19, 07:22 PM
So... Salterri are attacking Grmanhil, among others. I can probably take the army they've got there now- I think it's 32,000 or so- but I'd need people to let me through territories, and they've got another 15k or more in reserve. I could also try to claim Cassia, though it's a toss-up whether or not it would be successful or not.

@Pax Varinel- We don't and almost certainly can't get a majority, correct? If so, I think I might vote against it being considered broken. I'm almost certainly coming out of this having pissed off the Salterri, but I'd like to avoid pissing off the Concordant, too.

@Elemental- What did you want me to investigate, again? I can't remember and can't find the post.

Snowfire
2015-01-19, 07:39 PM
So... Salterri are attacking Grmanhil, among others. I can probably take the army they've got there now- I think it's 32,000 or so- but I'd need people to let me through territories, and they've got another 15k or more in reserve. I could also try to claim Cassia, though it's a toss-up whether or not it would be successful or not.

You're off by ten thousand, unfortunately. They're sending 42,000 into Grmanhil. I'm going to bleed them there as best I can, as you suggested, but there's no way in hell I can hold. I can make it an absolute PR nightmare, although I'm unsure as to how much they'll care.

My main attempt to stop them, however, will be in the Carmine Sea, trying to prevent their navy from transporting twenty something thousand to the second battle of the Frontier. If I succeed at that, things could look...interesting next round.


@Pax Varinel- We don't and almost certainly can't get a majority, correct? If so, I think I might vote against it being considered broken. I'm almost certainly coming out of this having pissed off the Salterri, but I'd like to avoid pissing off the Concordant, too.

We actually can get a majority I believe. Guilder + Raaneka + Bordeux + Ashenia vs Sycia + Glazfell + Sympol (requires Blade to lose his single vassal action from them). Razdis not counted, as I'm unsure where they'll end up.

I'm assuming that Faedas does not get a vote, given that they're the one in front of the Quorum however. It honestly makes more sense.

SamBurke
2015-01-19, 09:00 PM
You're off by ten thousand, unfortunately. They're sending 42,000 into Grmanhil. I'm going to bleed them there as best I can, as you suggested, but there's no way in hell I can hold. I can make it an absolute PR nightmare, although I'm unsure as to how much they'll care.

My main attempt to stop them, however, will be in the Carmine Sea, trying to prevent their navy from transporting twenty something thousand to the second battle of the Frontier. If I succeed at that, things could look...interesting next round.

You have one of my units to help there, though I'm uncertain of who should roll TacMan. My Tac will apply though, which might make it worth it.



We actually can get a majority I believe. Guilder + Raaneka + Bordeux + Ashenia vs Sycia + Glazfell + Sympol (requires Blade to lose his single vassal action from them). Razdis not counted, as I'm unsure where they'll end up.

I'm assuming that Faedas does not get a vote, given that they're the one in front of the Quorum however. It honestly makes more sense.
So if we maintain it tightly, then we can make an even split at the very worst. Nice. However, they will come at us with arguments like "but you're not considering our side", so the essential point is not to waffle on that.

Elemental
2015-01-19, 10:05 PM
@Pax Varinel- We don't and almost certainly can't get a majority, correct? If so, I think I might vote against it being considered broken. I'm almost certainly coming out of this having pissed off the Salterri, but I'd like to avoid pissing off the Concordant, too.

@Elemental- What did you want me to investigate, again? I can't remember and can't find the post.

We probably can get a majority. Whether the judgement is listened to is a completely different matter.

I've actually got all the investigations I want covered thanks to Kitsanth and Doomhat, so there's no need.



I'm assuming that Faedas does not get a vote, given that they're the one in front of the Quorum however. It honestly makes more sense.

No, Faedas does not get a vote. I don't think anyone expects them to.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-20, 09:29 AM
Okay, so it is tuesday before the end of the round. We need to get deployments moving before the crazy crap shoot of last round does not happen again.

Hurosha - are you committing troops to an area? Frontier again? Clanships?

Bordeux / Ashenia - will you be aiding in any defense, now that the Salterri are involved?

Triumvirate - Zab - I need you to post any war actions that Imp would post. Even if he posts them later, I want to avoid what happened last time.

Raaneka - What was the exact route that you took into Aimplach? Morph seems to think you went through lands you swore never to send troops through? But didn't you go through Keldagrim, from Domhan or Guilder?



At all - Grmanhil for this round seems a lost cause, but I really want to hit some of the place we conquested last round, because then we have a leg to stand on for any regions they take from us.

Any trades you can cancel to the Concordat, please do. They're using these trades against us.

Any thoughts on all these declarations?

SamBurke
2015-01-20, 09:49 AM
Okay, so it is tuesday before the end of the round. We need to get deployments moving before the crazy crap shoot of last round does not happen again.

Hurosha - are you committing troops to an area? Frontier again? Clanships?

Bordeux / Ashenia - will you be aiding in any defense, now that the Salterri are involved?

Triumvirate - Zab - I need you to post any war actions that Imp would post. Even if he posts them later, I want to avoid what happened last time.

Raaneka - What was the exact route that you took into Aimplach? Morph seems to think you went through lands you swore never to send troops through? But didn't you go through Keldagrim, from Domhan or Guilder?

I'm guessing he's claiming they went through the Heartwaste. Odd that he'd care, though, and it really doesn't follow: it's easy enough to travel through Guilder, Domhan, to Sympol, without touching the Heartwaste.

SamBurke
2015-01-20, 09:52 AM
I'm guessing he's claiming they went through the Heartwaste. Odd that he'd care, though, and it really doesn't follow: it's easy enough to travel through Guilder, Domhan, to Sympol, without touching the Heartwaste.

Also (dang no editing...), my troop distributions are getting closer to finalized. I'm going to be heavily defending the Clanships, since that region would be conquered if we do not win. I would appreciate a lot of support there, if you can grant it.

Frontier as well appears to be the site of the major Concordat battle, so support would be appreciated. If we could move it to Sah'raa, though, that would swing it by about 5 in our favor (due to Militia going up in that region).

SamBurke
2015-01-20, 10:19 AM
I'm guessing he's claiming they went through the Heartwaste. Odd that he'd care, though, and it really doesn't follow: it's easy enough to travel through Guilder, Domhan, to Sympol, without touching the Heartwaste.
Just did a mock-up of that pathway, here: http://i.imgur.com/QxEIYai.jpg

Elemental
2015-01-20, 11:59 AM
Bordeux / Ashenia - will you be aiding in any defense, now that the Salterri are involved?


At all - Grmanhil for this round seems a lost cause, but I really want to hit some of the place we conquested last round, because then we have a leg to stand on for any regions they take from us.

Any trades you can cancel to the Concordat, please do. They're using these trades against us.

Any thoughts on all these declarations?

Well, I put my troops in Grizzland after diplomatic stuff happened regarding Faedas 'cause I didn't know where else to put them. I can move them to somewhere else that needs defending, but they definitely can't stand up against the Salterri in Grmanhill.
Actually, I just noticed that the Salterri Imperium sent troops to Hrathan-Tuor, ostensibly to ensure that investigations and resulting executions go smoothly. Shall I send troops there to firmly remind them that their legal jurisdiction doesn't encompass the whole world?

Where are we in need of defence? I remember that Kitsanth is going to Domhan Abheile, so I'll probably deploy my troops somewhere on the other side of the Sea of the East.
Actually, I'll split my troops between Hrathan-Tuor and wherever you guys suggest.

Pointless formalisation of things already known. The Imperium thinks that the EoD is responsible for stuff so they declared war without thinking. Hopefully the truth will be uncovered by next round and that will dissuade them.



I'm guessing he's claiming they went through the Heartwaste. Odd that he'd care, though, and it really doesn't follow: it's easy enough to travel through Guilder, Domhan, to Sympol, without touching the Heartwaste.

There's also the really long route via Wenyavuk as well if people feel the need to nitpick.



Also (dang no editing...), my troop distributions are getting closer to finalized. I'm going to be heavily defending the Clanships, since that region would be conquered if we do not win. I would appreciate a lot of support there, if you can grant it.

I'll bite the bullet and send ten thousand troops to the Clanships then. I'll also write up accompanying documents for these things tomorrow.

SamBurke
2015-01-20, 12:31 PM
There's also the really long route via Wenyavuk as well if people feel the need to nitpick.


I'll bite the bullet and send ten thousand troops to the Clanships then. I'll also write up accompanying documents for these things tomorrow.
As you say, there's no reason for them to go to war (Wenyavuk or Domhan routes, either way, they didn't touch the Heartwaste), but they're doing it anyway.


Thank you for the aid in the Clanships. My current troops outmatch the orcs, but not by a comfortable margin. With an extra 10,000 (pending troop deployments from Tzatleclan and the rest), we should have a significant advantage.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-20, 12:35 PM
As you say, there's no reason for them to go to war (Wenyavuk or Domhan routes, either way, they didn't touch the Heartwaste), but they're doing it anyway.


Thank you for the aid in the Clanships. My current troops outmatch the orcs, but not by a comfortable margin. With an extra 10,000 (pending troop deployments from Tzatleclan and the rest), we should have a significant advantage.

Also, the new land nomads in Selyra are sending 5,000 to Clanships, so that should also help. Sam, you should D5 frontier and/or Sahra'a to get the militia up. I was also planning on sending Myrida to Clanships to lead the tactical manuvering, since the Fortification tactic could be used there.

SamBurke
2015-01-20, 12:39 PM
Also, the new land nomads in Selyra are sending 5,000 to Clanships, so that should also help. Sam, you should D5 frontier and/or Sahra'a to get the militia up. I was also planning on sending Myrida to Clanships to lead the tactical manuvering, since the Fortification tactic could be used there.

Hmmm... Will a D5 work actually?

Also, Myrida at Clanships works for me, though I'm sad that Wesley can't fight directly. That said, using him elsewhere is a good idea, though none of the important battles have coastlines (other than Grmanhil).

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-30, 12:01 PM
Alright, folks, I'm getting effectively slaughtered on the negotiation table. Because I have no legs to stand on. Anyone have any suggestions?

zabbarot
2015-01-30, 01:09 PM
If the terms haven't changed from the last ones you told me, you should probably just accept them. I doubt they'll get better.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-30, 01:15 PM
If the terms haven't changed from the last ones you told me, you should probably just accept them. I doubt they'll get better.

they've gotten worse. Now Morph's piling it high.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-30, 01:21 PM
they've gotten worse. Now Morph's piling it high.

Honestly, I don't have time for any of this. I think I'm just going to burn all bridges and get wiped out.

The Salterri entered the war because they thought I'd assassinated the Qzare's sister. Now they want all of our techs, 3 trade posts, 3 food tributes, and peace for 40 years when all they deserve is them apologizing to me for getting it wrong, and invading under false pretenses. As such, the Salterri are taking their unending size and using it to crush me. Meaning any techs that I'm not supposed to trade around? They get. Any techs that I have spent the entire game creating? They get. All because they are bullying me. Well the Kells found out what happens when they bullied me. It wasn't great for me, but history does seem to repeat itself.

Lord_Burch
2015-01-30, 01:28 PM
Honestly, I don't have time for any of this. I think I'm just going to burn all bridges and get wiped out.

The Salterri entered the war because they thought I'd assassinated the Qzare's sister. Now they want all of our techs, 3 trade posts, 3 food tributes, and peace for 40 years when all they deserve is them apologizing to me for getting it wrong, and invading under false pretenses. As such, the Salterri are taking their unending size and using it to crush me. Meaning any techs that I'm not supposed to trade around? They get. Any techs that I have spent the entire game creating? They get. All because they are bullying me. Well the Kells found out what happens when they bullied me. It wasn't great for me, but history does seem to repeat itself.

That's enough to piss me off- OOC and IC. Can you provide a list of demands, as well as any IC reasoning they're providing?

Related: is this peace only with the Salterri and there are separate talks with the Concordant, or are they together?

Lord_Burch
2015-01-30, 01:36 PM
Although, my hands are a bit tied this round: my heir and some important techs are in the Sea of Glass. I guess you can add the threat I will be joining the war if peace is not achieved? I suppose if they held him hostage, it's all the more reason for me to join the war. Plus I have my own, somewhat well hidden hostages of my own.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-30, 02:00 PM
That's enough to piss me off- OOC and IC. Can you provide a list of demands, as well as any IC reasoning they're providing?

Related: is this peace only with the Salterri and there are separate talks with the Concordant, or are they together?

They were together, but I seperated them, mainly because it was two seperate declarations:

The Concordat - who were at war with me because OOC they wanted to, and IC the orcs said we attacked them / told them to attack the Concordat. And other reasons, according to Dark.

The Salterri - You murdered my sister, you sent troops into the Heartwaste, and Raaneka must pay.



With the Salterri, Guilder has quelled the demands of the Qzare in the past, without so much as a thank you, and a few scant years later they find MORE reasons they want rectified, and attack anyway. And when those reasons turned out to all be false, I go to treat with them seperately from the Concordat because their Declaration, while in some way involved them in the war, was made separate from the Concordat. Otherwise it would be like all of those who supported me in the war through alliances.
Here’s their demands: (yes, demands. No apology for the mistake. Nope just getting their fill of the fallen beast)

- The Salterri Heartlands gains first rights to two posts in Grmanhil.
- The Salterri Heartlands gains first rights to one trade post in Selyra.
- The Guilderene Expanse shall gift [one stack of food resources] to each of the following: the Kingdom of the Carmine Sea, the Caercian Consortium, the Kingdom of Mularuhm. This shall remain in place for 30 years. At behest of the above nations, they may opt to turn it into a trade with the Guilderene Expanse after, or even prior to the end date.
- The Kingdom of Serendel, the Guilderene Expanse and the Empire of Dawn shall never again blockade the trade business of the Salterri Imperium.
- The Kingdom of Serendel, the Guilderene Expanse and the Empire of Dawn shall bestow on the Salterri Heartlands and the vassal states bound to it within the Salterri Imperium (to wit: the Kingdom of the Carmine Sea, the Caercian Consortium, the Kingdom of Mularuhm, the Kingdom of Celero, the Seaborne Confederation, the Kingdom of the Isles, the Coalition of the Abyssian Sea, the Niemida Prefecture and the Nanguang Prefecture) all of their technologies of theirs that the Salterri Imperium does not possess.
- Non-aggression between signatory nations for 40 years.
- No new troops shall be raised in Grmanhil during this time, save the one to replace the honoured ones who lost their lives in the Sunset War.
- If the Salterri Imperium is attacked by any of the nations that assisted the Kingdom of Serendel, the Guilderene Expanse or the Empire of Dawn during the period of 486-499 (to wit: the Kingdom of Ashenia, the Hurosha Empire, the Triumvirate or the Sovereign Principality of Niskovia) while this period of non-aggression lasts, the Kingdom of Serendel, the Guilderene Expanse and the Empire of Dawn shall assist in defense of any regions that come under attack.
- If Grmanhil does not come into possession of the Empire of Dawn within one year of signing this treaty, the non-aggression clause shall be deemed void.
- If the Kingdom of Serendel, the Guilderene Expanse, the Empire of Dawn, or any of their heads of state, cause, through their actions, directly or indirectly, the death of a member of any of the royal Houses of the Salterri Imperium or the Imperial House of Li, the non-aggression clause shall be deemed void.
Note, I’m receiving Grmanhil back from the Triumvirate this round, so there’s that to be considered. Either way, the Concordat demands –

- Cession of Sahra'a to Glazfell
- Cession of Frontier to Tzalteclan
-Cession of Clanships to Clanships.
- Straits remain open to all Concordat and Empire of Dawn traffic: Military, Trade, or Otherwise.
- Within fifteen years of this treaty's signing, the Empire of Dawn shall build Warships but train no crews, and then send these to replace those lost by the Glazfelli Hegemony and the Tzaltec Empire. These shall number two fleets to Glazfell, two fleets to Tzalteclan, Until all naval reparations have been made, the Empire of Dawn shall not raise any levies on land or in the sky during peacetime.
- The Guilderene Expanse may not send parties of trade, war, or espionage in or through Concordat lands without the permission of the sovereign of the lands to which they enter.
- A minimum of thirty years of non-aggression between all parties. No party may send soldiers over the borders into a different party's land without express approval of the latter party's Sovereign(s).
-The Empire of Dawn will render upon the Concordat and Imperium details and schematics for all technologies used to oppose them during the War.
- Doge Wesley of Guilder will publicly apologize for both Doge Vizini's and the Guilderene Expanse's responsibility for the War.

For them, they won the war, and while there’s no proof that the war was started by us still, evidence leans in their favor thanks to orc happenstance. I take issue with replacing the ships because it (at the time) was 7 actions, because they were having me replace imperium ships too. Heck, that could still be in there, I just took them out because no I'm treating with the Salterri separately.

Everytime I object to something, they say I don't have any choice. But then later they say I can try to negotiate things. But won't budge.

Worse yet, last round the deal was give them 2 regions and a peace deal and that would be it. So huzzah!

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-01-30, 02:40 PM
As such, there's no way we can win. So, I'm likely going to be a martyr. All that helping us will do is make it worse for all of you.

zabbarot
2015-01-30, 02:56 PM
You're just as much of a martyr by accepting those hamfisted terms.

Honestly I'd say accept the concordats terms as is. Argue with the Salterri a bit see if they'll back off.

SamBurke
2015-01-30, 04:33 PM
As such, there's no way we can win. So, we're likely going to be a martyr. All that helping us will do is make it worse for all of you.

Fixed that for you.

That said, if worst comes to worse, I'm OK with Guilder going out in a blaze of glory. If we have allies by our side, let's do it. I get the feeling that if we don't push back, then the Concordat/Salterri can basically write the terms they want, deliver them to any government in the world. All they have to do is fake an assassination or a political incident, or take one that happens and blow it out of proportion. I do think it's going to become a world-wide sort of issue.

Also, to clarify: Clanships is going to METAL.

Kitsanth
2015-02-01, 02:21 AM
Anyone have any suggestions?

Well you are definitely in a tough position, is there any sort of precedent for this sort of thing happening in game?


- If the Salterri Imperium is attacked by any of the nations that assisted the Kingdom of Serendel, the Guilderene Expanse or the Empire of Dawn during the period of 486-499 (to wit: the Kingdom of Ashenia, the Hurosha Empire, the Triumvirate or the Sovereign Principality of Niskovia) while this period of non-aggression lasts, the Kingdom of Serendel, the Guilderene Expanse and the Empire of Dawn shall assist in defense of any regions that come under attack.

I have particular issue with this clause, its unlikely to be activated due to Niskovian actions but they would still be forcing the end of our treaty in such an eventuality.

Actually, where can I show up so I can be properly indignant about this IC?

Elemental
2015-02-01, 02:43 AM
Alright, folks, I'm getting effectively slaughtered on the negotiation table. Because I have no legs to stand on. Anyone have any suggestions?

Acknowledge the ceasefire and call for an adjournment until the following year so that you can consult with your advisors. That is my advice.

Personally, I am extremely annoyed at Ashenia's exclusion given the efforts I went to to investigate the Salterri allegations and the clause requiring that the EoD ignore their friendships. Furthermore, from my perspective, the war with the Concordat ended in a draw. They only had partial conquest of Sahra'a and the Frontier while we had partial conquest of Tzalteclan itself.

Snowfire
2015-02-01, 04:55 AM
Actually, where can I show up so I can be properly indignant about this IC?

It's at the Centennial Gala.

I'm sure you can find your way there - although Sycia might object to you showing up, I can't really see them having any right to toss you out. From what I've read, they're apparently content to establish a (complete fiction) that it was only the EoD in a state of war with the Concordat/Imperium. Which is...kinda ridiculous, IMO.

Elemental
2015-02-01, 05:23 AM
I'm just a little concerned about something... Sam, did you give permission for Wesley to be subjected to mind control?

Snowfire
2015-02-01, 05:41 AM
I'm just a little concerned about something... Sam, did you give permission for Wesley to be subjected to mind control?

Darnit Elemental, you beat me to this.

But...um...yeah. Mind control attempted personality rewrite to another player's ruler is not something I call ok with their permission.

Sam?

Snowfire
2015-02-01, 05:42 AM
Darnit Elemental, you beat me to this.

But...um...yeah. Mind control attempted personality rewrite to another player's ruler is not something I call ok with their permission.

Sam?

I'm bad. "without their permission."

Stupid typos.

SamBurke
2015-02-01, 11:13 AM
Darnit Elemental, you beat me to this.

But...um...yeah. Mind control attempted personality rewrite to another player's ruler is not something I call ok with their permission.

Sam?


I'm just a little concerned about something... Sam, did you give permission for Wesley to be subjected to mind control?

There was no permission. Evidence of this going up in OOC soon.

zabbarot
2015-02-01, 01:42 PM
Elemental, you know how surprised you were not to be included? The Triumvirate wasn't even notified of the peace treaties at first.

It was kind of obvious that this was originally so they could continue a war with us after the EoD was pacified :/

All that's been settled now though. If Wombat works out an agreement the war is over.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-02-04, 09:11 AM
Alright folks, I think I've worked down things a bit with Sam's help on both treaties, and it looks like things are going better. I can't adjourn without the war continuing next round, and I don't want them to have Wesley any longer.

I've just signed the Dawn Accord deal.

As for the Salterri deal, I will still be able to defend any of your nations, as per our defense agreement, but I will not be able to attack the Salterri nations. I have to discuss some more with Morph, however. I want to make sure it doesn't interfere with things at all. I may have misjudged Morph's intentions a tad on things, given how hopped up I was on the activities of everyone, and the hard stances being thrown all over the place. In any case, Morph also read this thread some, because he somehow found it. I asked him not to read it anymore, that it was a private thread, but we might be better serviced on a better medium in the future.

I want to thank Ashenia for their defense of the Clanships, Niskovia for their defense of Domhan Abhaile, and Hurosha for their defense of Borlmyn, Frontier and Rannara. For your support in the Sunset War, and all that it entailed.

Lord_Burch
2015-02-04, 09:42 AM
In any case, Morph also read this thread some, because he somehow found it. I asked him not to read it anymore, that it was a private thread, but we might be better serviced on a better medium in the future.


This... Really pisses me off. I know they have their own thread on here, and it seems arrogant, I guess, to expect privacy for himself while violating someone else's.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-02-04, 09:50 AM
This... Really pisses me off. I know they have their own thread on here, and it seems arrogant, I guess, to expect privacy for himself while violating someone else's.

It frustrated me as well. I'm going to try and negotiate away the "defending their regions for them", as they don't really need it.

zabbarot
2015-02-04, 10:11 AM
It frustrated me as well. I'm going to try and negotiate away the "defending their regions for them", as they don't really need it.

If you can't negotiate it away, maybe pull a Japan and require them to fully defend you from all threats in return for you having a minimal defense force.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-02-06, 04:20 PM
Li Aarne Krii Valkoinen sat himself down across from Kuku Lelian and pushed the treaty proposal forward. "Point seven, as you had previously inquired, stipulates that if any regions of the Salterri Imperium come under attack by those nations who allied themselves with you during this war, you shall aid in our defense. This is to ensure that the Imperium does not suffer undue retaliation by any of those parties. Niskovia is an honourable nation we have blood ties with, but honour only goes so far, and I'm not familiar enough with their customs regarding family. Ashenia we have considered reasonable in the past, but that is no insurance for future action. Bordeux has maintained an open state of war with the Imperium for years, in spite of attempts on both ends to mend the gap. The Triumvirate and the Hurosha Empire was greatly involved in the causes that sparked a large war between the Imperium and the North over a century ago. The Hurosha Empire was also quick to cancel trades with the Imperium over the actions of a single citizen acting alone, and the Triumvirate has not defended any of their own regions in favour of attacking others in retaliation of attacks on your Empire."

He smiled at the komola princess. "It is insurance for us, so that it will be made highly unlikely that the citizens of the Imperium need suffer invasion like yours have. Even if you'll have peace with the Concordat and the Imperium, the other nations may not, and the Imperium is closer in its location than the Concordat. I wish to prevent us from ending up in a state of war with others as a result of the peace that we would have."

He held up his hands with open palms. "Nothing more."

Thoughts guys?

Lord_Burch
2015-02-06, 04:40 PM
Thoughts guys?

First and foremost, I never actually allied with you- at least, not IC. OOC, yeah, I'm here, and yeah, I moved to defend the Triumvirate. For the first: that's OOC knowledge he could only acquire by reading our private thread. For the second: the only reasons I've ever given are: free tech! and a menace to society. Plus, you know, they're the Triumvirate. Not the EoD.

Also: "open state of war"? That's BS. I've not done anything but be helpful in the last ~10 rounds, and I'll I've gotten is threats and the cold shoulder.

zabbarot
2015-02-06, 04:47 PM
Accept the open state of war and spend secret actions to mess with them every round.
It's okay because you're at war. :smallwink:

Really I have no qualms with you agreeing to that Wombat. It says if they are attacked. I have no intention of fighting the Salterri any time really, unless they attack me. Which is hopefully equally unlikely.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-02-06, 07:32 PM
Accept the open state of war and spend secret actions to mess with them every round.
It's okay because you're at war. :smallwink:

Really I have no qualms with you agreeing to that Wombat. It says if they are attacked. I have no intention of fighting the Salterri any time really, unless they attack me. Which is hopefully equally unlikely.

It would be interesting if we were to declare all of those within the alliance as the "Empire of Dawn" just so that he can't attack any of us, and we have no reason to attack him.

TheWombatOfDoom
2015-02-06, 07:43 PM
It would be interesting if we were to declare all of those within the alliance as the "Empire of Dawn" just so that he can't attack any of us, and we have no reason to attack him.

Dang edit. I'm mostly joking of course. Alright, well this is an agreement for 4 months, so I just wanted to run it by all of you.