Help needed with a martial adept build

[brys]

Currently playing 3.5, most sources usable, but i try to keep builds easy to manage if possible. I have played most archetypes before, but I prefer the sort of strategy involved with close combat. I never liked playing straight fighters, as I found them boring, but when I started reading Tome of Battle, it looked like what I needed. I normally tend towards divine magic in casters, so Crusader was the first that I looked at, then Warblade and finally Swordsage. That said the Prestige Class that really called out to me was Jade Pheonix Mage. I have trawled through loads of old threads for build ideas and I kind of like the idea of combining JPM with either a sneak, or failing that combining JPM and Mo9. The closest build that I have found so far,seems a bit cheesy, using cloistered cleric of Grumbar and martial wizard, to get most of the pre-req. feats for in the first 5 levels, then going JPM 10, Mo9 5. We have just finished a 'core only' experiment, and since we had a large part of the party wiped out by monsters, have decided to give it up.

I guess after that rambling paragraph what I am really asking is, what would work best with JPM to make an interesting character to play from levels 10 to 20 and beyond, if i survive that long! I'm open to most ideas, stats rolled are 17,17,15,15,13,12, I usually go human, but have played some LA 0 or +1 races/templates before. The party already has a fighter, a ranger/shadowdancer, a rogue/assassin, a mage, a druid and a cleric, so I can pretty much go anywhere with it, although I guess White Raven might be the best fit for maneuvers to support the party. I will start with 49k gold for items and equipment, only things i have looked at so far is Serpent Armour MIC, and I am now looking at Martial Discipline Weapons. I was thinking of using the AoO mechanics to move around in combat, so will need some stances and maneuvers that support that if possible, not sure what spells work well with the idea, beyond the likes of haste and enlarge person, to increase actions and reach.

[Xerlith]

Well, Wu-Jen5/Crusader1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Archmage4 is a fun build but somewhat lackluster on lower levels. Since you start at 10th, it doesn't really matter though.
Its 20th level capstone is Body Outside Body+Transcend Mortality SLA finished with Emerald Immolation when Transcend Mortality's duration runs out.


Duskblade5/Crusader1/JPM10? Will lack power at higher levels.

Bard5/Crusader1/JPM10? Something with Sublime Chord maybe, since it's a game that'll go up to 20th.

It all depends on how much spellcasting you intend to have. From the sound of it, I guess your preference is fighter with a side of magic, am I right?

And just so you know, JPM doesn't get White Raven. Only Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind. Thematically appropriate, but mechanically weak.

[brys]

I did look at Duskblade, looks alright, but since I'm not in it for long not sure it's the right choice. Wu-Jen looks like a better fit, have tried Bard before with Duelist so I know that would work ok, but not used Sublime Chord before. I'm thinking Wu-Jen is ahead on points so far. Does it matter what element I go for, (funnily enough I'm rereading Jim Butchers Alera Series, which uses the same idea), and not familiar with the spell list so don't know what spell secrets would work best, I'd only get one at 3rd level anyway. I've never really bothered much with meta magic feats so I'm pretty clueless on that choice. I take it you don't think Mo9 is a good fit?
I assume the reason why 5 levels of Wu-Jen instead of 3 levels and maybe 1 level of each martial adept class is to get the 17CL for 9th level spells, would it be worth going 6 levels Wu-Jen for the elemental mastery, delaying JPM by one level and maybe take only 3 levels of Archmage and this of course means not getting BAB +16 lowering the effectiveness of my full attack?
Just had a look through the spell list, Arboreal Transformation for when you have already used your Emerald Immolation looks fun.
Archmage, looks good too, I'm thinking Arcane Reach, Mastery of Elements, Mastery of Shaping and maybe Arcane Reach again.
But it also occured to me that maybe I could use Legacy Champion to get my +16 BAB and still get to level 9 spells....maybe?!
What maneuvers do you think would work best?
Still so much to figure out and running out of time, before we start back.
Any help or advice greatly appreciated!

I have looked into this build over the last few days, and there are I'm sure very good reasons to get to 9th level spells asap. However since I was originally more interested in the tactical combat side of the build, I am wondering if it would not be better for me to go with: Wu-Jen 3, Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1, JPM 10, Eldritch Knight 4 to get BAB +18/+13/+8/+3, and leave me only one more level to gain 9th level spells, I know I would be passing up some Archmage cheese by going this route and tbh maybe that is for the best if I don't want the whole character to get vetoed in the long run, whilst also picking up all the 1st level abilities and giving me a wider maneuver base to build on. I could obviously swap out one adept class for an additional Wu-Jen level, which I think would give me both full iterative attacks and 9th level spells, but at the cost of maneuvers and some versatility, either way, I will probably get Practised Spellcaster to redress the CL deficit.

Anyone have any opinions on this idea?

[brys]

In case anyone is interested, I played on Wednesday and have settled on my final build, I expect some of you will disagree with some of my choices, if so post your comments.
My rolled stats: STR 13, DEX 17, CON 15, INT 17, WIS 15, CHA 12, all stat bonuses going on INT as they become available.
I stuck with human for the extra feat and skill points. Traits and flaws would open more options, but for now....

Swordsage 1, (unarmed variant), with 40 skill points, (by RAW 60 skill points), good Reflex and Will saves, +1 Initiative, and Shadow Hand Discipline Focus, as I love Sai and Spiked Chain for their versatility. Also my first stance, Child of Shadow, and 6 level 1 maneuvers, I decided to take one from each discipline, I liked Wind Stride, but decided to drop that for Burning Blade since I would have other mobility enhancers. Moment of Perfect Mind as will save may be an issue. Mighty Throw, (I will other ways to deal with a charge). Shadow Blade Technique, roll twice to hit? Seriously? Charging Minotaur, mobility, battlefield control and damaging too, not OP now, but this will get nasty later with buffs in effect. Couldn't take Sudden Leap, due to pre req. so Wolf Fang Strike, again has 2 attacks as a standard action and works well with the option to make unarmed attacks.

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (unarmed Swordsage variant), Adaptive Style (ecl 1), Elusive Reflexes (human).
Skills: Max: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Hide, Jump, K.Nature, Listen, Move Silently and Tumble.

Wu-Jen 1,2,3,4, with 26 skill points, good Will save, a good start on my spellbook, taking the first Heart of .... spells and Alter Self, to which I will apply my first, (and only), spell secret to double the duration, only saddened by the knowledge that I have already ultimately denied myself 9th level spells by not starting at ecl 1. Watchful Spirit to allow an initiative reroll 1/day. Bonus Extend for buffs.

Feats: Extend Spell (Wu-Jen 1, bonus metamagic), Knowledge Devotion (ecl3).
Skills: 1 point in every Knowledge skill, and Collector of Stories trick.
1st level spells: Ghost Light, Magic Weapon, Protection from Evil, Secret Signs, Silent Image.
2nd level spells: Alter Self, Cat's Grace, Fire Shuriken, Heart of Air.

Warblade 1, with 9 skill points, good Fortitude save and a boost to my Reflex save and Weapon Aptitude, which at first pass I thought would work with the Swordsage - Discipline Focus, but it says only those that apply to ONE weapon, however I will ask if I can extend this effect, if I spend 1 hour per weapon, until i have changed the whole group, loosing the effect in the time between, even if this is only 1 hour per day, at least I can change my choice given enough down time. Most importantly, I gain my second stance, Punishing Stance, which allows me to take Iron Heart Aura, the pre req for Stormguard Warrior. Also 3 level 2 maneuvers, some tough choices. Mountain Hammer, the universal key, and DR only gets harder to deal with at higher levels. I wanted Tactical Strike, but would have to take a level 1 maneuver to qualify, which doesn't seem very efficient, unless I later trade it out for another White Raven maneuver with 1 to qualify, effectively having each qualify for the other, (not sure if that works), besides which I need 2 Iron Heart maneuvers to qualify for Stormguard Warrior, so Disarming Strike works well with unarmed fighting and Wall of Blades is good against touch attacks or any effect that debuffs AC.

Feats: Iron Heart Aura (ecl 6).
Skills: Max: Balance, Concentration, Jump and Tumble.

Jade Pheonix Mage 1,2,3,4, with 28 skill points, good Fortitude save, Arcane Wrath, Mystic Pheonix Stance and Empowering Strike abilities, plus 3 more Wu-Jen caster levels, bringing CL up to 7,which gives 3rd and 4th level spells. Nearly finishing the Heart collection, and unlocking the fortification effect for having 2/4 spells active together. Also increasing mobility and combat effective buffs. Also another level 2 maneuver, Foehammer which in turn qualifies for the level 3 maneuver, Revitalizing Strike.

Feats: Stormguard Warrior (ecl 9).
Skills: Max: Balance, Concentration, Jump and Tumble, and taking Swift Concentration and Back On Your Feet tricks.
3rd level spells: Fire Wings, Haste, Heart of Water, Thornskin.
4th level spells: Heart of Earth, Lesser Spirit Binding, Poison Needles, Polymorph.