Trained cross-class skills

[Logic]

So, in my recent game, I had a player absolutely convinced that if a "trained only" skill is not on your class list, you cannot spend your skill points on it at all.

This happened in a Pathfinder game, but he is convinced it is a general D20 system rule.

Does anyone have an opinion to support this idea?

[TheBarbecueChip]

I know you asked for opinions supporting your player but here is what the D20 SRD has to say on the subject:

"Each skill point you spend on a class skill gets you 1 rank in that skill. Class skills are the skills found on your character’s class skill list. Each skill point you spend on a cross-class skill gets your character ½ rank in that skill. Cross-class skills are skills not found on your character’s class skill list. (Half ranks do not improve your skill check, but two ½ ranks make 1 rank.) You can’t save skill points to spend later." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/skillsSummary.htm#skillRanks)

There is no restriction on what skills can be bought cross-class.

[Red Fel]

Yeah, "Trained Only" doesn't mean it can't be taken cross-class; it simply means that you can't perform a skill check unless you have ranks (i.e. can't perform an untrained skill check).

Here's what the PFSRD says on the subject (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills#TOC-Skill-Description-Format):
Trained Only: If this notation is included in the skill name line, you must have at least 1 rank in the skill to use it. If this notation is omitted, the skill can be used untrained (with a rank of 0). If any special notes apply to trained or untrained use, they are covered in the Untrained section (see below).
That's it. It just means it can't be used untrained.

[Logic]

I made the same case you guys had, but apparently that is how he has been playing in all his other games prior to my campaign.

I wondered if I had somehow missed something. I'm glad to see I was right all along.

Paladins, enjoy your linguistics!

[Coidzor]

If you couldn't spend skill points to buy skill ranks in cross-class skills there would be no mechanism for purchasing cross-class skills and there would be no cross-class skill rank cap in 3.5.

[TheBarbecueChip]

If you couldn't spend skill points to buy skill ranks in cross-class skills there would be no mechanism for purchasing cross-class skills and there would be no cross-class skill rank cap in 3.5.

The player's issue isn't with cross-class skills in general, it's with cross-class skills that have the Trained Only tag.

[Lanson]

The player's issue isn't with cross-class skills in general, it's with cross-class skills that have the Trained Only tag.

Yeah, but the single skill point put into them makes them trained, IIRC that's even called out in the rules on skills.



Generally, if your character attempts to use a skill he or she does not possess, you make a skill check as normal. The skill modifier doesn’t have a skill rank added in because the character has no ranks in the skill.
It implies that untrained skills are skills with no ranks, thus, adding a rank makes it trained.

[Ashtagon]

He may be thinking of the 3.0 rule whereby certain skills were limited to be "xyz class(es) only".

[mashlagoo1982]

He may be thinking of the 3.0 rule whereby certain skills were limited to be "xyz class(es) only".

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I made the same mistake for a while when switching from 3.0 to 3.5.

Skills like Handle Animal were exclusive to certain classes.
So, it didn't matter if you wanted to put a skill point in it, there was simply no potion to cross-class.

Now in 3.5, anything that isn't a class skill can be a cross-class skill.

[mabriss lethe]

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I made the same mistake for a while when switching from 3.0 to 3.5.

Skills like Handle Animal were exclusive to certain classes.
So, it didn't matter if you wanted to put a skill point in it, there was simply no potion to cross-class.

Now in 3.5, anything that isn't a class skill can be a cross-class skill.

*except truespeech: You have to get that from the Truenamer class, a feat, or something like Factotum.