TWF/Whirling Frenzy/Lion Totem/Travel domain

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Would a Barbarian with the whirling frenzy(UA) and lion totem(CC) class feature variants and the TWF(PH) and travel domain(CC) feats be a good build. I would think that this combination would make two weapon fighting more powerful. i could pounce at my opponent and deal three attacks, each with a small penalty, and then use travel devotion to move my base land speed away from them. i'm i looking at this right.

[Doc_Maynot]

Basically. One could nab only the two levels of Barbarian and then go Scout (or some feat based combo of it) for it's bonus damage after moving at least ten feet.

[Greenish]

It would probably be a more powerful build without TWF, though. You could use a reach weapon to avoid AoO on disengaging (if the enemy only has 5 ft. reach), wouldn't have to put so many points to Dex, and might even deal more damage.

It'd still be the same one-trick beatstick, though.

[Darrin]

I would think that this combination would make two weapon fighting more powerful.

More effective, yes, but you still need a decent source of bonus damage. If you're going the Power Attack route, then wielding a two-handed weapon with Improved Unarmed Strike (maybe dipping into Battle Dancer) has a good chance to at least keep pace with the two-handed Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Troopers... but that's just because you're doing almost exactly what they are doing.

Barbarian 1 dip in a Swift Hunter build could also dish out some decent DPS.

Some other things to consider:

Travel Devotion by itself only works 1 minute per day, so at best that's 10 straight rounds of "back up, charge", and you have to hope the DM, the terrain, and your opponents cooperate a bit to give you a target every round. To make this work more than once per day, you'll need to take Travel Devotion several times, or dip into a class that offers Turn Undead. Cloistered Cleric dip does this quite well, although if you're worried about BAB, Soldier of Light (from Deities & Demigods) will also work.

Getting two-handed damage bonuses on both your primary and offhand attacks is tricky, but doable with certain builds. Exotic Weapon Master's "Uncanny Blow" stunt needs a favorable ruling from the DM. Getting a pair of extra arms + Oversize TWF would let you grip both weapons with two hands. Revenant Blade 5 can get two-handed damage out of both ends of a double scimitar.

TWF OffHandbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279079) is a good place to look for more ideas on improving TWF.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

The scout levels would be perfect, that would give me the extra damage i need. the attacks of opportunity that i would provoke when leaving a foe is going to be hard to overcome, could get dodge and then mobility but i really don't want to do that. i won't be using two handed weapons for my build so i'll be using light one-handed weapons such as short swords.

[Extra Anchovies]

The scout levels would be perfect, that would give me the extra damage i need. the attacks of opportunity that i would provoke when leaving a foe is going to be hard to overcome, could get dodge and then mobility but i really don't want to do that.

Ranks in Tumble? Scout has it as a class skill, so you could at least get a few.

[Greenish]

DMG has kusari-gama (of some spelling or other) statted as basically light version of spiked chain. Reach only helps avoiding AoO from (most) medium or smaller enemies without reach weapons, but it's a pretty sweet thing to have. Other than that, Tumble should work, and barbarian (and ranger*) can get it as a class skill with Skilled City-Dweller ACF from Cityscape web enhancement. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)


*Ranger is relevant if you find yourself interested in Swift Hunter (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.fi/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html).

[Darrin]

The scout levels would be perfect, that would give me the extra damage i need. the attacks of opportunity that i would provoke when leaving a foe is going to be hard to overcome, could get dodge and then mobility but i really don't want to do that. i won't be using two handed weapons for my build so i'll be using light one-handed weapons such as short swords.

If you want to still use Power Attack/Leap Attack, consider Oversize TWF or EWP: Dragonsplits (MMIV). Both will cost you a feat, but both will allow a one-handed weapon in your offhand to be treated as light for determining TWF penalties.

A couple sample builds:

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) SLT Barbarian 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: Combat Reflexes, Whirling Frenzy ACF.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion)
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: TWF.
4) Scout 1. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 2.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Extra Rage. Distracting Attack or Spiritual Guide ACF.
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Improved TWF.
12) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook).
13) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
14) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
15) Ranger 8. Feat: Robilar's Gambit.
16) Ranger 9. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
17) Ranger 10.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Bonus: Greater TWF. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.


If you want more Skirmish damage, you can use Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4 for +4d6:

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) SLT Barbarian 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: Combat Reflexes, Whirling Frenzy ACF.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Champion of the Wild + Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion)
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2), Bonus: TWF
4) Scout 1. Skirmish 1d6
5) Scout 2.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
8) Dragon Devotee 1.
9) Dragon Devotee 2. Feat: Improved TWF. Skirmish 3d6AC+1/5d6AC+3
10) Dragon Devotee 3. 1st level Sorcerer casting (get at least 2 divination spells)
11) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 4d6AC+1/6d6AC+3
12) Unseen Seer 1. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook). Skirmish 5d6AC+1/7d6AC+3
13) Unseen Seer 2. Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye (PHBII)
14) Unseen Seer 3.
15) Unseen Seer 4. Feat: Robilar's Gambit. Skirmish 6d6AC+1/8d6AC+3
16) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 6d6AC+2/8d6AC+3
17) Ranger 4. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Greater TWF, Distracting Attack ACF.
18) Ranger 5. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6+4
19) Highland Stalker 1.
20) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

i forgot about Oversize TWF. the dragonsplits look interesting but don't know if i want to waste a feat on it. the builds look good but i forgot to mention that i will be playing a gestalt campaign, what would a good gestalt build be.

[Darrin]

i forgot about Oversize TWF. the dragonsplits look interesting but don't know if i want to waste a feat on it. the builds look good but i forgot to mention that i will be playing a gestalt campaign, what would a good gestalt build be.

Hmm... I've never considered what a Swift Hunter would look like in gestalt. Maybe something like Scout 5/Cloistered Cleric 1/Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 10//Barbarian 2/Ranger 12/Highland Stalker 6. That gets skirmish damage up to 12d6, or 14d6 with Improved Skirmish.

[Extra Anchovies]

Since when does Unseen Seer progress skirmish?

Also, Hand of the Winged Masters (Dragon Magic) gets +1d6 at 2nd, 5th, and 8th, effectively skipping the levels that boost the AC bonus. May be of use.

[Darrin]

Since when does Unseen Seer progress skirmish?


Since October 2006.

"Damage Bonus: At 1st level, the extra damage you deal with your sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike ability increases by 1d6. If you have more than one of these abilities, only one ability gains this increase (choose each time you gain this benefit). Your sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike damage increases by another 1d6 at 4th level, 7th level, and 10th level."
(emphasis added)



Also, Hand of the Winged Masters (Dragon Magic) gets +1d6 at 2nd, 5th, and 8th, effectively skipping the levels that boost the AC bonus. May be of use.

I am somewhat familiar with it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257723-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XXXVIII/page3&p=14083601#post14083601) 8 levels will advance skirmish faster than Highland Stalker, so you could replace Highland Stalker 10 with Highland Stalker 2/Hand of the Winged Masters 8, at the cost of dinging up your BAB a bit. Even if you don't use Hand of the Winged Masters, Dragonfire Strike might be worth a feat, particularly if you're taking both Swift Hunter and Swift Ambusher, since it advances both Sneak Attack and Skirmish separately... as well as Sudden Strike, if you pick that up as well.

[Extra Anchovies]

Since October 2006.

"Damage Bonus: At 1st level, the extra damage you deal with your sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike ability increases by 1d6. If you have more than one of these abilities, only one ability gains this increase (choose each time you gain this benefit). Your sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike damage increases by another 1d6 at 4th level, 7th level, and 10th level."
(emphasis added)

whaaaaaat

I never noticed that, thought it was sneak attack only. That is so cool.