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janusmaxwell
2014-12-23, 08:24 PM
Unfortunately, this post is going to be short and sloppy for now as I'm on a phone, which doesn't lend itself to long cohesive statements.

Summary: my friends have convinced me to try DMing and while I've got no issue giving some kind of a Module a test run first, I'm already thinking of a setting/place/plot etc.

The plot/setting is basically a fantasy world where the dominant human religion brought about the extinction of all dragon-kind approximately 1000 years ago, which includes Kobolds, dragon-blooded anybody, or other draconian creatures (which I can't name off the top of my head at the moment.

The plot for the party will be (and yes, I realized last night that I inadvertently Dragon-Aged...) to assemble the miriad of other races who all have some form of grievances with the church to take the corruption.

Mostly what I'll be asking about here are setting and racial lore as I know some very basic things, as well as asking whenever I maybe hitting the DM fiat Button to often...as well as making sure I don't accidentally Marty-Stu. (Binged through Trekkins tale of Chief Circle and the Ao-Sue Months ago and I still laugh/rage about it)

To start off, maguffin elite armors used by the most powerful defenders of the Church (the church of Mithrus/Azagog BTW...are those names taken?) these armors are just straight up fuxxin' ridiculous, with the point of the unified races, is to build up a dialogue to figure out WTH makes thes armors so powerful.

Answer is Dragon scales inlaid secretly in the armor and shields and enchanted in a way that grants higher AC and lower ACP, and resistances to various damages and spells based on the dragons scales used (which stack when using both the shield and Armor, rather than replacing). While the obvious notion would be "oh, black dragon scale armor, don't use Acid" I had an idea for a weakness that I thought was genius.

These dragon armors enchantments effectively make the wearers be considered Draconic for the purposes of magic...including "Dragon-Bane" weapons.

And the best bit (to me anyway) is that there are "Royal Flush" armors made from the scales of all 10 dragon types (no mixing and matching between Metallic and Chromatic though, the five Evil Scales and the Five good ones stay seperate) these are even more OP, But any type of anti-dragon Magic is considered MORE effective to these putz's. (Found something about "lesser/regular/Greater" bane weapons...I figure I'll look into that.)

So, what do the resident Giants think?

Oh as for "setting" like Eberron or something, I ain't got a freaking clue, though I intend to make references to Bahamut and Tiamat.

GameSpawn
2014-12-23, 09:09 PM
...

The plot/setting is basically a fantasy world where the dominant human religion brought about the extinction of all dragon-kind approximately 1000 years ago, which includes Kobolds, dragon-blooded anybody, or other draconian creatures (which I can't name off the top of my head at the moment.

The plot for the party will be (and yes, I realized last night that I inadvertently Dragon-Aged...) to assemble the miriad of other races who all have some form of grievances with the church to take the corruption.

Be very careful of saying "the plot will be". It's better to think in terms of hooks and setting elements. For example, the setting element here is that there's a powerful and corrupt church. Ask yourself questions like "how powerful?" or "how corrupt?" as well as follow up questions like "how much of a presence does the church have in people's everyday lives?". These will inform your setting.

A hook is important because otherwise your characters will end up standing around not sure how to proceed. You can tell them out of character that they should go around and gather up all the various races to fight the church, but for many groups, that's not very satisfying. In my personal experience, it's better if they have some personal motivation. You could ask everyone to write a grievance with the church into their backstory. You could have a mysterious benefactor sponsor the players to approach members of the various races. There are lots of possibilities, but I've generally run more successful campaigns when I've started off by considering where the players begin, not where they'll end up. If I could only give one piece of DMing advice, it would be to never assume you know what the players will do.


Mostly what I'll be asking about here are setting and racial lore as I know some very basic things, as well as asking whenever I maybe hitting the DM fiat Button to often...as well as making sure I don't accidentally Marty-Stu. (Binged through Trekkins tale of Chief Circle and the Ao-Sue Months ago and I still laugh/rage about it)

To start off, maguffin elite armors used by the most powerful defenders of the Church (the church of Mithrus/Azagog BTW...are those names taken?) these armors are just straight up fuxxin' ridiculous, with the point of the unified races, is to build up a dialogue to figure out WTH makes thes armors so powerful.

Answer is Dragon scales inlaid secretly in the armor and shields and enchanted in a way that grants higher AC and lower ACP, and resistances to various damages and spells based on the dragons scales used (which stack when using both the shield and Armor, rather than replacing). While the obvious notion would be "oh, black dragon scale armor, don't use Acid" I had an idea for a weakness that I thought was genius.

These dragon armors enchantments effectively make the wearers be considered Draconic for the purposes of magic...including "Dragon-Bane" weapons.

And the best bit (to me anyway) is that there are "Royal Flush" armors made from the scales of all 10 dragon types (no mixing and matching between Metallic and Chromatic though, the five Evil Scales and the Five good ones stay seperate) these are even more OP, But any type of anti-dragon Magic is considered MORE effective to these putz's. (Found something about "lesser/regular/Greater" bane weapons...I figure I'll look into that.)

So, what do the resident Giants think?

Oh as for "setting" like Eberron or something, I ain't got a freaking clue, though I intend to make references to Bahamut and Tiamat.

This sounds cool. Just don't get too attached to details that won't come into play for a while :smallsmile:.

EDIT: As far as I know, Mithrus and Azagog are free, but Mithras and Azagoth are not.

Friv
2014-12-23, 09:27 PM
My thoughts:


The plot for the party will be (and yes, I realized last night that I inadvertently Dragon-Aged...) to assemble the miriad of other races who all have some form of grievances with the church to take the corruption.

If that's the plot, my advice is to pitch the game by saying, "I want you to be a party of individuals who will be assembling enemies of the Church into an alliance capable of overthrowing it. Does that sound like a fun game?"

If the players like it, they'll help you out by creating a gang of outcasts with reasons to dislike the church, and will be willing to start the process of gathering allies. If they don't... maybe find a different plot. There's nothing wrong with a focused plot, but the more focused you intend it to be, the more important specific player buy-in becomes.


These dragon armors enchantments effectively make the wearers be considered Draconic for the purposes of magic...including "Dragon-Bane" weapons.

Makes sense! And I presume dragonbane weapons both exist, and aren't in common use any more, given that there aren't any dragons left.

For setting, I would say that at creation, you probably need a good one-paragraph summary of each major area of the Church's territory and surroundings, plus a more detailed description for the small area in which the players are starting off. You don't need more details for an area until the players are preparing to go there.

janusmaxwell
2014-12-24, 03:24 AM
Late night phone post, should be asleep, but going to put down thoughts quick.

Church of Mithras/Azagog: power and Corruption? On the first count, the dominant power in all human lands, (catholic Church in it's 'prime') and all associates of the church have tremendous lee-way and influence in any given city. This also means the various non-human civilization are pressured by the Church to be diplomatic even when they'd rather not.

Corruption: Oh yeah, freaking VERY. They gained a lot of power during the purging of Dragonkind and have since then used the influence they gained from to spread their influence and put checks in place so they'd never be toppled, save for all-out war or the fist of an angry god.

Part of the corruption and influence involves the continuing efforts to poison the name of "Dragon" of any type. Scrying spells detect the presence of "dragon-blooded" creatures, like potential sorcerers, and priests are sent out to find the person so they might 'save his/her soul before the evil takes hold'. The trial for this is supposed to make them human provided they "haven't been corrupted too thoroughly" otherwise it will kill them. (Spoiler: the trial always "fails", and I'm still fluffing out what kind of trial it should be...)

If a village refuses to hand over the person who hit the reverse magical/genetic Jackpot, the priests will leave and simply pray for the people's safety. The next time merchants or adventurers get to the town, bodies will be stacked like cordwood and Mithras priests will be adminstering funeral rights to the victims of a horrific plague that came from nowhere (well, not entirely "nowhere" as the vials of blackened ooze laying at the bottom of the fouled village wells will attest.

Centuries of "accidents" like that have resulted in human lands unquestioningly handing over any dragon-types they find since they're horrific omens as well as abominations before god.

There are varying non-human reactions to the church and it's influence and I'll get into those later. To summarize, a human who doesn't like the Church or thinks of it as unnecessary or evil is about as rare as a non-human who thinks Mithras/Azagog is his best friend and can't wait to establish a Mithras temple in his home forest/mountain/nomadic tribe/whatever.

As for the plot-hook, I already got it...I think.

I'm gonna ape Fallout 3 for the comparison in that there's a big neon sign pointing towards the Main Plot, but there will/should be plenty to do on the side (and possibly tangentially related to main plot). The primary hook? A human city-state (built up around the entrance to a dwarven city) has declared the worship of Mithras illegal and punishable by death. All that is known across the realms about the city is that the soldiers have taken to wearing dragon-motif armor as a deliberate insult to Mithras, and that an army sent from neighboring Kingdoms was sent to Sue for peace and bring the rebels back to the light but that army ended up disbanding a few days into the siege with the consensus being that the rebels will get what's coming to them eventually and deserve whatever punishment Azagog inflicts on them.

This hostile outlook is due to the rumor that the new leader of the city is a dragon-kin and launched a terror attack on the Unifying Army which resulted in the slaughter of all the accompanying Mithras priests as well as the 'conscript' regiments. Slaying unarmed holy men and children has given the greater human society the impression of "we don't need the b-stards!" And most are content to wait until the inevitable catastrophe, while others might be inclined to travel to the city and discover the true cause of the rebellion...

And no, I'm not having the leader of the city/rebellion be a "Sue" or at least I hope not, and he's not of Draconic descent, but rather an ex-member of the Church's elite guards and still owns a set of Metallic Dragon Royal Flush Armor (gotta think of a better name) which he doesn't wear anymore.

His second-in-command however is absolutely a dragon-kin with the lizard eyes as well as fire-breath (cone or ball), and he really did mow down several companies (~120) of conscripts single-handedly. Evil as sh-t by way of being ruthless, racist/distrustful of humans, and will kill anyone confirmed to work for the Church. Freud would say "he has anger issues." And is frankly a reptilian-eyed bucket of hate.

More to fill people's voids when they want.

TheOneHawk
2014-12-24, 07:29 AM
Settings sounds interesting. Be prepared for your party to not follow your carefully laid plans. I had a setting and hook all ready to go and made the mistake of putting the party a few miles away from an abandoned castle and gave them a map. They totally ditched my plans and went to check out the castle. Your hook sounds interesting, but how are the players involved? What makes them want to travel to this potential warzone? Sounds like a place I'd want to stay the hell away from.

janusmaxwell
2014-12-24, 10:03 AM
Settings sounds interesting. Be prepared for your party to not follow your carefully laid plans. I had a setting and hook all ready to go and made the mistake of putting the party a few miles away from an abandoned castle and gave them a map. They totally ditched my plans and went to check out the castle. Your hook sounds interesting, but how are the players involved? What makes them want to travel to this potential warzone? Sounds like a place I'd want to stay the hell away from.

I plan to come up with more than a few side-lines to do, some if which involves Rebellion shenanigans, other things as setting fluff, and probably a couple of places for some good old-fashioned Murder-hoboing.

As I type this, I had a sudden thought for a dungeon/boss/random encounter. Some type of ancient/intelligent undead (lich obvious but open to suggestions) who wakes up and demands answers about while he was "away". Players mention Mithrus and he'll say "Who?...Oh! That little wannabe managed to make it big, huh? He used to be just god for farmers in the sticks. Good for him!"

Mention Azagog: "Whoa! Well I guess my plans for world domination got shot to hell!"(or "good thing I wasn't planning to conquer the world anytime soon!)

"so are you guys escaped slaves or something? Looking for a doodad to kill a dragon or 2?"

"...why would you need that? Don't Azagog's pet dragons keep you lot in line?"

"...the 9 hells do you mean there are no dragons left?!?"

Mention both together:

"Umm...'scuse me, what? Did you hit your head or something? Why would you mention those two together?"

"...aspect of Mithrus? Da $&@* are you saying? How can a freaking demon be an aspect of a god?!"

So yeah, another post soon and while I have basically given up the goods on the major turning point of the plot, I'll need a separate post for details on the Mithrus/Azagog relationship.

ComaVision
2014-12-24, 11:16 AM
If you plan stuff too specifically, you're going to be let down when the group doesn't bite or does something you didn't expect.

For example, what if the exposition you intended with the lich turns into the group trying to kill it instantaneously? If you give the lich plot armour so he beats them up but keeps them alive to finish his monologue, the group will resent it.

What if the group decides the rebellion is stupid and the church isn't as bad? Not too far-fetched considering the second in command is apparently very evil. More likely, what if the group decides to leave these kingdoms entirely (which has happened in a game of mine)?

Specific plans shouldn't go more than a few sessions ahead of where you are, and it's way better if they can be redesigned on the fly to be appropriate if the group decides to do something different.

GameSpawn
2014-12-24, 11:56 AM
Late night phone post, should be asleep, but going to put down thoughts quick.

Church of Mithras/Azagog: power and Corruption? On the first count, the dominant power in all human lands, (catholic Church in it's 'prime') and all associates of the church have tremendous lee-way and influence in any given city. This also means the various non-human civilization are pressured by the Church to be diplomatic even when they'd rather not.

Corruption: Oh yeah, freaking VERY. They gained a lot of power during the purging of Dragonkind and have since then used the influence they gained from to spread their influence and put checks in place so they'd never be toppled, save for all-out war or the fist of an angry god.

Part of the corruption and influence involves the continuing efforts to poison the name of "Dragon" of any type. Scrying spells detect the presence of "dragon-blooded" creatures, like potential sorcerers, and priests are sent out to find the person so they might 'save his/her soul before the evil takes hold'. The trial for this is supposed to make them human provided they "haven't been corrupted too thoroughly" otherwise it will kill them. (Spoiler: the trial always "fails", and I'm still fluffing out what kind of trial it should be...)

If a village refuses to hand over the person who hit the reverse magical/genetic Jackpot, the priests will leave and simply pray for the people's safety. The next time merchants or adventurers get to the town, bodies will be stacked like cordwood and Mithras priests will be adminstering funeral rights to the victims of a horrific plague that came from nowhere (well, not entirely "nowhere" as the vials of blackened ooze laying at the bottom of the fouled village wells will attest.

Centuries of "accidents" like that have resulted in human lands unquestioningly handing over any dragon-types they find since they're horrific omens as well as abominations before god.

There are varying non-human reactions to the church and it's influence and I'll get into those later. To summarize, a human who doesn't like the Church or thinks of it as unnecessary or evil is about as rare as a non-human who thinks Mithras/Azagog is his best friend and can't wait to establish a Mithras temple in his home forest/mountain/nomadic tribe/whatever.

This sounds pretty solid! It's definitely a setting that gives me some ideas as a player.


As for the plot-hook, I already got it...I think.

I'm gonna ape Fallout 3 for the comparison in that there's a big neon sign pointing towards the Main Plot, but there will/should be plenty to do on the side (and possibly tangentially related to main plot). The primary hook? A human city-state (built up around the entrance to a dwarven city) has declared the worship of Mithras illegal and punishable by death. All that is known across the realms about the city is that the soldiers have taken to wearing dragon-motif armor as a deliberate insult to Mithras, and that an army sent from neighboring Kingdoms was sent to Sue for peace and bring the rebels back to the light but that army ended up disbanding a few days into the siege with the consensus being that the rebels will get what's coming to them eventually and deserve whatever punishment Azagog inflicts on them.

This hostile outlook is due to the rumor that the new leader of the city is a dragon-kin and launched a terror attack on the Unifying Army which resulted in the slaughter of all the accompanying Mithras priests as well as the 'conscript' regiments. Slaying unarmed holy men and children has given the greater human society the impression of "we don't need the b-stards!" And most are content to wait until the inevitable catastrophe, while others might be inclined to travel to the city and discover the true cause of the rebellion...

And no, I'm not having the leader of the city/rebellion be a "Sue" or at least I hope not, and he's not of Draconic descent, but rather an ex-member of the Church's elite guards and still owns a set of Metallic Dragon Royal Flush Armor (gotta think of a better name) which he doesn't wear anymore.

His second-in-command however is absolutely a dragon-kin with the lizard eyes as well as fire-breath (cone or ball), and he really did mow down several companies (~120) of conscripts single-handedly. Evil as sh-t by way of being ruthless, racist/distrustful of humans, and will kill anyone confirmed to work for the Church. Freud would say "he has anger issues." And is frankly a reptilian-eyed bucket of hate.

More to fill people's voids when they want.

There's nothing here that I would say is a problem, but ultimately it's more setting; you haven't figured out how the PCs are involved yet. You don't need to do that right away, but you should figure out before the first session, and probably before people make their characters. If you want to have a first session that doesn't involve the setting elements directly, you can, but you still need a hook, and also should generally have some events planned out that will motivate the PCs to become involved in the main plot.

An example of a setting element vs. a hook would be something like this:

Setting: The anti-Mithras army is marching on a pro-Mithras city, with the intent of converting the Mithras worshipers to their church and expanding their empire.

Hook: The anti-Mithras army is marching on the pro-Mithras city the players are currently in. The local branch of the Mithras church is trying to conscript the PCs into defending the city.

janusmaxwell
2014-12-24, 02:38 PM
If you plan stuff too specifically, you're going to be let down when the group doesn't bite or does something you didn't expect.

For example, what if the exposition you intended with the lich turns into the group trying to kill it instantaneously? If you give the lich plot armour so he beats them up but keeps them alive to finish his monologue, the group will resent it.

What if the group decides the rebellion is stupid and the church isn't as bad? Not too far-fetched considering the second in command is apparently very evil. More likely, what if the group decides to leave these kingdoms entirely (which has happened in a game of mine)?

Specific plans shouldn't go more than a few sessions ahead of where you are, and it's way better if they can be redesigned on the fly to be appropriate if the group decides to do something different.

The lich idea was one I came up with on the fly. It's just a silly idea and there will be PLENTY of other things for an exposition dump via the PC's own investigations into the church.

I'm WELL aware of how frustrating plot-armor and "That Battle Didn't Count" can be, trust me. If anything has "Plot-Armor" it's only going to be regarding RAW and common sense instead of Fiat. They want to kill the lich? They pull it off, fine and dandy. They decide to bumrush and shiv a King/Lord in his palace when he's surrounded by guards and wizards and...yeah, anybody who pulls that kind of "Chaotic-Stupid" deserves to make a new character, and thank GOD no one in my group has those tendencies...well, too many of those tendencies...

And I said earlier, I have every intent to come up with "Something" if the PC's don't want to support the rebellion...I just need to think harder on that particular "What if" after I'm done sketching out the main questline and the subplots/sidequests from it.


This sounds pretty solid! It's definitely a setting that gives me some ideas as a player.



There's nothing here that I would say is a problem, but ultimately it's more setting; you haven't figured out how the PCs are involved yet. You don't need to do that right away, but you should figure out before the first session, and probably before people make their characters. If you want to have a first session that doesn't involve the setting elements directly, you can, but you still need a hook, and also should generally have some events planned out that will motivate the PCs to become involved in the main plot.

An example of a setting element vs. a hook would be something like this:

Setting: The anti-Mithras army is marching on a pro-Mithras city, with the intent of converting the Mithras worshipers to their church and expanding their empire.

Hook: The anti-Mithras army is marching on the pro-Mithras city the players are currently in. The local branch of the Mithras church is trying to conscript the PCs into defending the city.

Hmm....part of the "set-up" is that this Anti-Mithrus movement is that they are basically alone, and don't have the manpower or interest to invade anywhere (Not until they've got a LOT of supporters) So that particular scenario wouldn't work. I'm HOPING that the setting fluff regarding an openly "Anti-Mithrus city" will stimulate their Curiosity so they travel to the place by their own choice rather than being forced/dragged. Maybe make it so...ohh...hired by church/adventuring guilds/People who lost family in the siege to find out WTH happened? That could work...

Anyway, the closest equivalent I have to your besieged city scenario is if I simply had the PC's in the rebelling city before everything kicked off. I didn't really WANT to do that though, cause I've got this whole sequence of events set-up regarding these DMPC's and how the rebellion started, and I don't want to put the group through that.

How many people here have fun when the DM does something that amounts to a slightly-interactive "Cutscene" and he's basically making the players sit and watch him play with his imaginary action-figures? Yeah, that isn't fun, and that's why the players are here. My DMPC's should be quest-givers, RARELY interacting with the group for more than that (Otherwise it'd feel like I was leading them around by the nose) and generally giving suggestions on where they can/should go. Rather than rail-roading...more like "There's some paths in a forest, which one do you want to walk down?"

I reiterate, I will come up with something if they say "F--k the paths" and stomp through the brush...or decide to walk out of the forest and burn it to the ground, but that's gonna take more time to contemplate.

-------------more fluffy stuff--------------------

The Church of Mithrus/Azagog has domains of Law, Protection, Healing, War, Trickery, Mind, Charm.

I think that's probably too many domains, and some of those don't make a lick of sense, which is where I'm fluffing out

Most of the church's and temples worship Mithrus, under the Domains of Law, Protection, Healing and Charm. This is the public face and there's many places of healing or assistance to City-Guards from priests of Mithrus as well as acting as diplomats in various quarrels, common or noble. The Azagog part comes into play as an "Aspect" of Mithrus who represents when people must be protected by any means necessary, with the public/lower level churches being told that 'any means' simply means War.

Due to the fact that Mithrus became the dominant force through war, the upper-levels of the Church and higher ranking members all worship Mithrus through Azagog rather than Mithrus directly.

When a follower of Mithrus wishes to serve the church in a higher capacity, a ritual will be performed and they will be allowed to change their Domain. The ritual for inducting a new member to the Elite guardians involves swearing yourself to the aspect of "War" and is a public rite, as becoming one of Mithrus' Greatest champions is a mark of honor.

The second ritual is secret, and only allowed to certain 'devout' priests (The lying, back-stabbing manipulators. Usually those who take "Charm" as one of their cleric domains) where they are brought before Azagog himself, a sentient spear in the depths of the Church's capital city (I.E. Evil Fantasy Jerusalem) where they're told that "any means necessary" includes keeping the foundations of the church stable, which includes keeping dubious aspects of Church lore from confusing the minds of the public. The inductees can pray before the spear and can change both their domains if they wish to the Trickery and/or Mind Domains.

The dubious aspects of Church lore that need to be guarded are things like "The Metallic Dragons were 'Good' dragons as a whole" and various holy battles glorified in song were in-fact gruesome massacres of unprotected/orphaned drakes and dragon eggs.

But one of the biggest secrets is the fact that the armors worn by the Elite Guardians are secretly inlaid and enchanted with Dragon Scales, because "Dragons are so evil that even their corpses can curse you and those around you! Any slain draconic being must be burned to rid the taint, and True Dragons must be sent to the Church for the more complicated rights!" Even the guardians wearing the armor have no idea that their seeming invincibility doesn't come purely from Mithrus/Azagog's blessing as well as their own martial skill.

----------------------

So technically, there was a minor-god for small backwoods farming villages, and one day a demon that was sealed in a spear (Who has a gigantic Rage-Boner for dragons) managed to trick a village into worshipping him as an aspect of their patron deity, and managed to goad enough people into launch a successful Dragon Genocide.

The deity and the demon have both grown in power, though not equally as the Demon isn't TRULY a god and doesn't draw that much power from belief. Mithrus is a Neutral Good god and has become a major player in the pantheon, but is equally parts enraged, saddened and ashamed that his own faith has been twisted in such a way that it's nearly impossible to warn any Good followers of his about the truth behind the church.

I'm writing out the fluff for this now, and I'm TRYING to keep it fairly lore and RAW friendly, but I'll have it up later.

Regarding the players, I'm gonna go with group discussion, and their backstories. The non-human characters will be fairly easy regarding "F--- MIthrus" since almost ALL of the fantasy races have some kind of grudge or suspicion of them. Especially Dwarves. It's hidden under the veneer of Dwarven stubbornness and respect for tradition/ancestry, but Mithrus worship is not allowed anywhere in dwarven mines/cities due to outright hatred of the religion.

Reason for dwarf hate? One of the draconic races hunted was Kobolds, and many such clans went underground. There were dwarven/kobold battles but the realization of the little lizards being faced with extinction lead many Dwarven cities to harbor Kobold communities in the depths of their mines. When the church tried it's tactic of "We think there are dragon things in there...I hope no accidents happen to the poor dwarves who're sheltering them..." only worked a few times before the dwarves caught on, managed to stop future sabotage and spread the word fast to other strongholds.

Pretty much every Dwarven mountain city will have Kobold communities in the deepest parts of the mines and well away from casual visitors prying eyes. While it's mostly symbiotic, some cities have used the threat of exposure to their advantage (Dwemer/Falmer relationship in Elder Scrolls series)

GameSpawn
2014-12-24, 03:43 PM
...

Hmm....part of the "set-up" is that this Anti-Mithrus movement is that they are basically alone, and don't have the manpower or interest to invade anywhere (Not until they've got a LOT of supporters) So that particular scenario wouldn't work. I'm HOPING that the setting fluff regarding an openly "Anti-Mithrus city" will stimulate their Curiosity so they travel to the place by their own choice rather than being forced/dragged. Maybe make it so...ohh...hired by church/adventuring guilds/People who lost family in the siege to find out WTH happened? That could work...

That sounds like a solid hook.


Anyway, the closest equivalent I have to your besieged city scenario is if I simply had the PC's in the rebelling city before everything kicked off. I didn't really WANT to do that though, cause I've got this whole sequence of events set-up regarding these DMPC's and how the rebellion started, and I don't want to put the group through that.

How many people here have fun when the DM does something that amounts to a slightly-interactive "Cutscene" and he's basically making the players sit and watch him play with his imaginary action-figures? Yeah, that isn't fun, and that's why the players are here. My DMPC's should be quest-givers, RARELY interacting with the group for more than that (Otherwise it'd feel like I was leading them around by the nose) and generally giving suggestions on where they can/should go. Rather than rail-roading...more like "There's some paths in a forest, which one do you want to walk down?"

I reiterate, I will come up with something if they say "F--k the paths" and stomp through the brush...or decide to walk out of the forest and burn it to the ground, but that's gonna take more time to contemplate.

...

Yeah, if you want the events in the rebellion to play out a certain way, the PCs should hear about it after the fact. My example was just intended as "this is what a hook looks like", not "you should use this scenario specifically"; it sounds like it wouldn't work in your setting.

BluesEclipse
2014-12-24, 04:19 PM
So, part of the idea is that Mithrus's doctrines have been twisted over time by this demon's influence...

Here's some food for thought. If a deity's power stems from people's belief in it, then if enough people start believing that this god's teachings are different than intended, could it possibly alter the deity's actual nature? Maybe the higher-ups in the church. the ones aware of the demon manipulating things, are trying to twist the doctrines to warp the god itself for some reason? Say, maybe the demon was bound into the spear by Mithras's holy power, and turning the deity away from Good would be a means of weakening the seal - if Mithras is no longer Good, the seal loses its holy elements that prevent the demon from breaking free, for example.

janusmaxwell
2014-12-24, 05:00 PM
Issue with racial concepts and motivations.

So far I have Elves, Dwarves, Drow, Halflings and Gnomes settled as far as most concepts and relationships with the Church of Mithrus.

That still leave Orcs, Goblins and Bugbears as standard fantasy races who SHOULD show up in the setting, and while it'd be easy to say "semi-organized/coherent bands of monsters that cause trouble" and tell the players to not think on them deeper than how hard it is to get their blood out of their clothes, I'd rather build some kind of culture and reputation that fits into the setting.

I mentioned the Dwarves in a bit of Detail and the elves...I think I mentioned them in passing? Anyway Elven summary is that they had instances of attempted sabotage like the dwarves, but their cities are in a less defensible position than "Inside A Mountain" and they have to play diplomatic with the Church, allowing missionaries and such. There are some rules in higher elf society that only Elves can own/build on Elven lands, as a way of preventing actual temples and Churches to be set-up, though this doesn't prevent Elven Mithrus Priests from coming around. If they try to build a temple in Elven Land, they get the 411 on why Mithrus is a crock of sh-t.....hmmm...plothook, lots of elves might turn with that information, while others would be so enamored that the intolerance would make them leave elven lands permanently...what if an elf became a fanatic and got straight-up exiled, and became vengeful? Ohhh that could work...

So much for brief elven description...Anyway, halflings

Halfling lifestyle is rather nomadic with some permanent settlements in human territory, though much more permanent ones on the outskirts of Elven territory. Halflings seem to have a higher number of dragon-blooded children born and those in human territory are careful to hide them, with their relative isolation from major cities helping, but when they're discovered, the same declaration of "Surrender him/her to us"is made. When the halflings refuse, the priests don't need to make an "Accident" happen. All they have to do is tell the nearest human villages about the dragon being hidden by the halflings, and the little-folk will be driven out by fearful locals in short order. And in a strange coincidence, many such tribes suffer a higher degree of bandit raids and attacks then normal. This is how the permanent settlements in elven lands came to be as the Halflings were able to find refuge and protection with the elves.

The drow...I admit to not knowing much about the drow except they're usually underground dwellers who take slaves and have a matriarchal society. I figure they don't give a flying rat's a-- about Mithrus, outside of it being a dominant religion.

Gnomes are technologically and magically advanced and continually studying aspects of the world around them in whatever way strikes their fancy. They have no reason to distrust the church or bar them from their lands in any capacity, though Gnomes haven their own gods to worship and see the allowance of Mithrus as just being neighborly.

Their "grievance" is actually completely unknown to them. Despite the ban on draconic materials, the Gnomes sent expeditions out to find Dragon graveyards and bring pieces back for study. These expeditions end up either finding nothing until the Gnome is sick of wasting his time/money, finding something and then disappearing with only scattered survivors telling of catastrophe that befell them and on the rare occasions that samples make it back to the curious Gnome, his experiments will end up back-firing somehow. Gnomes as a whole have given up on the prospect, but recently one mechanically inclined gnome has made it his life's work to complete what countless others have failed at, and hasn't given up despite numerous setbacks.


The orcs, Goblins and Bugbears...I have a vague idea of of the Orc and Goblin tribes being paid to assault the condemned halfling tribes, and the goblins being the group to reveal the scam (I keep picturing inadvertently...like at some point a discussion with a goblin leader about Mithrus leads to "Oh them? Good guys! They tell us all the time whenever a halfling family is passing through our territory! They don't even ask for anything in return!"

janusmaxwell
2014-12-24, 05:07 PM
So, part of the idea is that Mithrus's doctrines have been twisted over time by this demon's influence...

Here's some food for thought. If a deity's power stems from people's belief in it, then if enough people start believing that this god's teachings are different than intended, could it possibly alter the deity's actual nature? Maybe the higher-ups in the church. the ones aware of the demon manipulating things, are trying to twist the doctrines to warp the god itself for some reason? Say, maybe the demon was bound into the spear by Mithras's holy power, and turning the deity away from Good would be a means of weakening the seal - if Mithras is no longer Good, the seal loses its holy elements that prevent the demon from breaking free, for example.

That...is very interesting! My initial summation for Azagog being bound was by the combined efforts of Bahamut and Tiamat (He loved killing Metallic Dragons, and then Tiamat found out Azagog had been dominating/controlling Chromatic Dragons as well, so both gods said "F--- This Guy!" and struck him down.)

Your idea is actually pretty good...adds a "race-against-time" element. I was just thinking that it would be discovered about "Azagog" being seperate entity and a demon, and those following the true Mithras path would work to make up for horrific crimes committed (Huh...is there a "Redemption" Domain?"

LokiRagnarok
2014-12-26, 07:36 AM
Quick thought regarding the lich: If it is only there for talking, make it only be able to talk.
For example, it is not a lich, but an ancient intelligent book (or a soul bound to a book, or whathaveyou). Or the Lich is literally encased into a stone, Han Solo-style. Or it is a talking clock (as I seem to remember from The Last Unicorn).

janusmaxwell
2014-12-28, 09:41 PM
Quick thought regarding the lich: If it is only there for talking, make it only be able to talk.
For example, it is not a lich, but an ancient intelligent book (or a soul bound to a book, or whathaveyou). Or the Lich is literally encased into a stone, Han Solo-style. Or it is a talking clock (as I seem to remember from The Last Unicorn).

I've pretty much gone away from the Lich idea. It was just an idle thought based on "Bound By Flame" character. There will be plenty of opportunity to discover the weird deception/oddity regarding the Church of Mithrus. Weirdly in my notes, I realized I didn't spell the demons name right on here. I have it in my notes as Akalnog, not Azagog. Honestly it could go either way lol

janusmaxwell
2015-01-02, 01:30 PM
Alright, still working on this campaign idea, and have a VERY rough map of the setting. (Like...MSPaint kind of rough...)

But in the meantime I had a rather humorous thought for how to make more learned Role-players eyes twitch.

The Church of Mithras, which drove dragons to extinction, will have stories in it's holy book about the various battles against evil dragons. However, because it's been 1000 years and dragons are gone, their information about the natural habitats and such regarding dragons won't be the most accurate...like an epic tale in the Mithrus Bible talking about a clan of 20 Black Dragons seized control of a dwarven mine/city, and worked the dwarves like slaves to supply the clan with Sapphires which were the only way the snobbish and dainty dragons would sleep on because that's the only way they could tolerate roosting inside of a cave.

But it get's even better, because Mithrus considers ALL dragons to be "Bad" and Metallic dragons aren't just maligned, they're flat-out just laughably WRONG on obvious details.


You enter a grand cathedral of Mithrus, with long rows of chairs pointing towards the upraised dais, with windows back-lighting the cleric at the pulpit, making him appear to be shrouded in light as he testifies to his rapt audience. Windows along the walls detailing the evils of dragons and righteous battles against them are etched in colored glass.

In one window, a Gold Dragon is on a hilltop overlooking a rustic hamlet. It's tattered bat-like wings are extended, and freshly polished forward facing golden horns exemplifying it's authority as it roars to the Kobolds swarming around it's feet, clearly giving the order to attack to it's loyal minions.

In another window, Saint Bancroft, the founder of the Church, squares off against a Silver dragon in it's nest. The beast is holding a human maiden, with blood dripping from it's claws and acid from it's fangs in equal measure. The creatures nest is behind it, where it's young are obviously devouring more young women. Thankfully the details of that grisly feast is obscured by the mother's wings, reminiscent of a fish's fins and extending from the tip of it's tail all the way to it's shoulders.



So that's my idea and I'm kinda curious if y'all can come up with something similar.

Basically, put on a B-tt F--king R---rded Racist hat on, and come up with something that such a person would say about Chromatic or Metallic Dragons, with Bonus points for making the stuff about Metallic Dragons being even more horribly Inaccurate.

TLDR: What would you say about Chromatic Dragons that would be just wrong enough to make a more experienced player go :smallconfused:, :smallamused: or :smallannoyed: Or about Metallic Dragons that would make the player go :smallsigh:, :smalleek: or :smallmad:.

Honest Tiefling
2015-01-02, 01:48 PM
Never ever include a race because it is stock fantasy and you think it belongs. If it doesn't gel, it doesn't gel. You don't have an idea for it...Go focus on something else.

I suggest putting in a landmass that is difficult to transverse (Desert, ocean with angry sea monsters, artic wasteland, area with dangerous magic, etc.). If you change your mind, they were just on the other side of it.

How familiar are your players with DnD? If familiar, I'd swap things in the world to be silly. The good dragons are chromatic, a far more humble approach then the shiny metallic ones. Tiamat is the dude and Bahamut is the chick. Swap their names around or make new ones. Maybe the standard dragons are the stories, not the reality.

Another idea is that people believe that the colors are life stages of the dragons, not different species. Or, environmental factors change the dragons, that's why you always find red ones in volcanoes, because the volcano made them red. Dragons reproduce only with humaniods, and the dragon-blooded, with enough power, becomes a dragon upon death in a great fiery explosion.

janusmaxwell
2015-01-02, 02:26 PM
That's the thing with this setting is that I don't want to mess too much with fantasy canon. I am leaving some races out cause I can't think of a way for them to fit.

The main plot hook is the downfall of a corrupt church that gained power by genociding dragons and all Draconic subspecies. It's a joke for my players (who have a LOT of dnd knowledge) to have the church's descriptions of dragons be completely wrong in equal parts to propaganda and 1000 years of abject stupidity.

janusmaxwell
2015-01-02, 04:12 PM
First session, planning on doing a one-off "Module" type thing before the big campaign. Investigating a local cult and disappearances. The cult are actually a bunch of mercenaries who are using the cult angle to hide the fact that they're just hired killers. They dispose of the bodies by feeding them to a troll, or something similar.

The modules I'm using as inspiration for this is for 1st level parties and the monsters/NPC's therein reflect it, but it doesn't have trolls or mercenaries, and I don't want to send a bunch of 1st level people against a troll.


Party of 4 to 6 first level people, 2 of which are confirmed paladins, against a Troll. Too powerful, a curbstomp battle, or Just right?

Maybe wait till they're level 2 or 3?

janusmaxwell
2015-01-18, 09:56 PM
So! I had my first session as a DM!

I was nervous as HELL, it was only a few hours, I was told by my players (2 of which were co-dming) that I managed to get the "hardest part" of DMing down really well (Improving NPC interactions) and they were interested in continuing. I really hope I don't F--- up anything as I was, and still feel like I am woefully underprepared, but I've got a whole week out to flesh things out more. I actually ended up pulling a LOT of what happened straight out of my A-- on the spot.

This "module" is in the setting I've described above. It's weeks following the disastrous semi-crusade against the Anti-Mithrus city of Saru's keep. Among the many towns and cities that supplied soldiers, nobles and priests for the army is Turona. My friends/the players were awesome on agreeing and coming up with backstorys to justify their own reasons to travel to this city, as simply the first step on what I HOPE will be a good campaign.

First is Connor Stonewall. He is part of a Hospitaller order of Mithrus that split from the main church around 200 years ago. The Hospitallers generally disagree with the "Backroom political shenanigans" the church gets up to in order to "Keep things peaceful" and have a semi-separate primary college for training paladins and Clerics of Mithrus (where they don't teach the Charm Domain) He is traveling to Saru's Keep as a step towards up-front diplomacy, and seeing if all branches of Mithrus are being banned forbidden, with the assumption that the grievances/rebellion is in response to the Church's meddling. (Co-DM)

Second is Candelario de Monasterio, a Paladin of Heironeous who is on a quest to receive his vision from Heironeous as his "Test of Valor" He was raised in a Monastery dedicated to Saint Valentia of Heironeous and is investigating the rumors of Saru's Keep due to the story of the horrific night-raid that broke the siege by slaughtering the commanding officers/nobles, the deacons and priests of Mithrus accompanying the army and the young soldiers of the armys (The shield bearers, the stable boys, the squires. Pretty much everybody too young to take part in the actual fighting was intentionally targeted during this attack) Such actions are clearly offensive to a Paladin of Valor, but the truth must be discovered first. (Co-DM)

Third is Serenity, a Healer of Mithrus. Not a clear backstory yet, I need to keep in contact with this player to finagle some points, bounce setting stuff off him.

Fourth is Bartholomew of "Insert City Name here" (My fault for not having a LOT of the cities named yet) who is a Celestial bloodline Sorcerer with a guard dog and a lizard familiar (Don't remember name except it looks like a Raptor the size of a large cat and lets out a piercing shriek when attacked)

So yeah, this setting with the "Anti-this particular religion" theme has 2 PC's acting as semi-agents of that religion. Almost 3 players actually...Bartholomew almost started out as descended from an Angel of Mithrus and I went "Oh HELL no" and explained some of the details about the Church and why that wasn't an option as there aren't really any angels of Mithrus at this point. At this point only my Co-DM's are aware of the DMPC later down the road who F-ING HATES MITHRUS AND THOSE ASSOCIATED WITH IT. It's not too hard to finagle the Hospitaller, I'm having a bit more trouble regarding how the Healer is going to work with prolonged association to this quest-giver, but the descended from an Angel of Mithrus...yeah there's no way I'd be able to roll-play that except the DMPC murders your character on the F-ing spot (tries too, I should say. I am not making the DMPC's completely unkillable...but it wouldn't go well for somebody of that particular celestial bloodline in his presence)


As for the first "Mission": I was loaned an old module called "The Fright at Tristor" as something to cut my teeth on for a level 1 campaign, and I used that with some alterations to fit my setting and this first job.


There was only one survivor among the commanding nobles in the sieging army at Saru's Keep. The eldest son of the Travortia Family, Louis, managed to return as his retainers sacrificed their lives to let him escape. About a week after the PC's will have arrived in the city, Louis has gone missing.

The city of Turona is in a state of disorder at the moment. A lack of soldiers has caused a relative increase in bandit raids and monster attacks, and the Baron has chosen to hire mercenary companies to act as temporary security forces for the city and the main roads among the farms and the nearby woods until new soldiers can be trained up to fill the gap, though many commoners suspect this to be lip service as they haven't seen any significant soldier presence, and in fact just a higher amount of Orc, Bugbear and Goblin sightings. The city is not completely without defenders, and almost the entirety of the Nobility is intact, but just the same, things are tense with the rumors swirling from the siege, and the fact that Turona's Deacon was among the slaughtered holy men.

The disappearances are making things more tense.

It's not just Louis who has vanished into the night, but several other nobles as well as various peasants from within town and the outlying farms. Stories are spreading of a black-robed figures and a possible evil cult that has taken advantage of the chaos to find victims for human sacrifices.

The players will have to choose how to go about things in the city. Ignore the state of things and move on to Saru's Keep? Investigate the disappearances? Try to aid in securing the city and ease the burdens of the Baron/his people?

What's actually going on:
One of the main mercenary companies being paid to keep the peace, Rogar's 'Reckers, is also the largest, with a rather large monstrous humanoid contingent. The human/half-elf members of the 'Reckers are in town, while the Orc, Bugbears and Goblins are the ones patrolling the woods and farms, albeit secretively to keep things from getting "complicated" and possibly terrifying the townsfolk even further, hence the increase in monstrous Humanoid sightings. Most of Rogar's 'Reckers are pretty devout Mithrus followers, and they are waiting for the next crusading army to be formed so they can get paid to strike down some heretics/heathens.

Rogar, the half-elf leader of the company doesn't have quite such a zealous reason for being in Turona. He was part of a marauder/bandit gang, acting as the Brains to his half-Orc second-in-command's brawn. Almost the entirety of the Monstrous Humanoid regiment is composed of his former bandit gang while the humans and half-elfs are new additions. Rogar is looking to get paid, and find a way to become "Legit" in the process, and with Turona he has a way to kill 2 birds with one stone.

Rogar is being paid to assassinate members of Turona's nobility as well as several others, by the new Deacon of Turona who will be arriving within a week/week and a half. The plan is to stage the assassinations as activities of a mysterious cult. The targets are ambushed and turned over to a portion of the "Monstrous" regiment, who take them to a cave in the middle of the woods. Following an overly-elaborate (and bogus) ritual, the corpses of their victims are thrown to a Troll chained inside the cave to be devoured.

Who knows what: Rogar himself as well as a very small number of his human mercs are aware of the assassinations, while the rest of the in-town 'Reckers have no idea. Likewise, most of the Monstrous 'Reckers have no clue that part of their group are actually that supposed "cult" running around.

Why staged as a cult? Rogar wants to go "legit" and that means erasing the evidence/witnesses of his nefarious past. When the Deacon arrives, a raid will be formed and it will be "Discovered" what the monstrous part of the regiment was doing. The Human 'Reckers will eagerly throw themselves at their blasphemous 'comrades' in order to prove their own innocence, and with the Monstrous regiment destroyed, there will be no one to say Rogar is anything but the leader of a skilled mercenary company.

Why the Deacon? Via ways and means (Need to fluff it, but for right now "Priest/wizard did it.") Most of the higher-ups in the Mithrus church know what happened during the siege and are actually the source for most of the rumors regarding the "horrific slaughter". Louis was a witness to the real events and needed to be silenced before the truth spread too far. Among the other victims were people who "might" have been told what happened by Louis, along with a "Dealers choice" of people Rogar could choose to drive the people's fear up higher, and would be even more grateful to the new Deacon and the redeemed 'Reckers for stopping the evil cult.

Other details:

*This is intended to be a level 1-3 campaign, all my players are level 1 and I'll try for the characters to be at level 2 minimum before the fight with the chained Troll (For balance, my first thought was having the Troll be one-armed so it doesn't have the Rend ability. [Permanent one-armed by cauterization with acid and fire]) but suggestions from my Co-DM's said to make it Exhausted or just simply fatigued so it get's negatives to STR and DEX
**Louis left a diary behind, which his mother has, and will show to the players if/after they find his body and discover what happened to him.
***Rogar has a Mark of Justice on him (He doesn't know it) that means if he decides to betray his Employer for this job, it will activate and kill him on the spot. (SOP the church operates with ALL it's nefarious dealings/people except for the equivalent of the "Cardinals")
****Next victim of the Cult who the players can rescue/use as bait/other is a noblewoman named Narine, a former sweetheart of Louis. Their relationship soured after his return from the battle and a VERY high diplomacy check, or successful rescue will result in her affirming the contents of Louis Diary account of the siege.
*****Elven Blacksmith in town can talk a bit on various subjects, and can reveal that before he left for war, Louis commissioned a emerald ring for Narine. Louis had the ring when he disappeared, and it will be found on his body, with the PC's deciding what to do with it (giving to Narine best option)
******Current church official in town is blameless in the 'Reckers and the affair at Saru's Keep, and was simply "left behind" when the crusade was called (He was the only high-ranking member of the Toruna's clergy who wasn't a douche-bag)

The True Events of The Siege (short version) The first day of the siege, "Conscript" legions were formed from the youngest and most inexperienced in the forces and were the first to march on the walls of the keep.

(My rather flimsy tactical justification, is that the tiny amount of numbers were intended as a "last chance, please surrender?" gesture rather than a serious first wave of the assault [truth be told, it was a manipulative no-win morale crusher for the soldiers of Saru's Keep, because they either weren't willing to attack untrained child-soldiers and would surrender, or they would be willing to attack untrained child-soldiers and be painted as monsters])

After pausing for the "last chance to surrender" messages, a single armored rider came out of the main gates and charged the conscript forces, breathing fire as he ruthlessly cut down everyone in reach.

Upon discovery of a "Dragon" (dragon-kin, dragon-man) being in the enemy forces, the order was given to the archer regiments to fire-at-will. Louis was in command of one of those regiments and was sickened by having to "Rain razored-steel" onto the conscript forces. After everything had been peppered with arrows, it was revealed that the Dragon man had survived (using dead-bodies as a cover) and rode back into the keep. The Mithrus Deacons were furious at the results of that battle, but not for the tactical decision, but rather at the failure to slay the dragon (Tone and actions of commanders/nobles and the priests need to have subtle evidence of mental manipulation, like some form of Domination, as the Priests were responsible for the formation of the conscripts and the order to fire on them when the Dragon-man appeared)

Louis was sickened by what had happened, what he had seen and heard and done, and he attempted to desert that night. He barely managed to slip-out as the night-raid occurred and rode to Turona without looking back once. He didn't trust the remainder of the Mithrus officials in town, and attempted to tell his closest noble friends about the priests dictating the horrific events of the siege. None of them believed him and Narine even threw him out of her house when he told her.



Somebody is going to be doing a campaign journal of this eventually, so I won't put the details of the first semi-session up.

That said, I think I'm doing well, and would like to keep using this thread for suggestions and questions. Who thinks that a party of lvl 1 PC's can handle a minor goblin raid of roughly 5-7? (Not alone. They will have back-up even if it's not apparent.)