Why Does Spellstitched Specify Wizard/Sorcerer?

[rossdbrain]

I would like some opinions on why the Spellstitched template (Complete Arcane, p161) can only be applied by Wizards and Sorcerers and not by other caster classes such as the Dread Necromancer.
I recently had this discussion with my GM and he said that it was because this would make classes like Dread Necromancer too powerful (an opinion I strongly disagree with) but I think it's simply because at the time of CA's release, there were no other arcane casters that fit into the roll of being able to do this.

What're your opinions?

[Tommy2255]

I've never noticed that clause before, but it doesn't actually say that only Wizards and Sorcerers can do it. It says that Wizards and Sorcerers can, but never says that nobody else can. I'm not sure exactly what the RAI is, since I don't see a reason for that to be a restriction. Since it's not actually a restriction as written, and there's little to suggest that there's any restriction intended, I would just write it off as sloppy writing. If not, just UMD it to emulate being a wizard, or up the craft DC because you're missing a requirement. Saying that Dread Necromancer is OP compared to Wizard and needs to be nerfed is idiotic.

[Darrin]

I think it's simply because at the time of CA's release, there were no other arcane casters that fit into the roll of being able to do this.


I'm not sure I buy that, particularly when the same book contains three arcane base classes that are not sorcerer/wizard. So... purely conjecture on my part, but:

1) Lazy designer, who just "forgot" there may be other arcane spellcasters that might want to create some undead minions.

2) Stovepipe designer, who was told "make a template for buffing undead minions, assuming you only have access to the Core books".

3) Cautious designer, who was trying to anticipate future abuse from power creep or unforeseen loopholes, and wants to limit the damage to just two base classes.

4) Relaxed designer, who assumes you know of course he would have included Dread Necromancer if that book had been out yet, and you should just adapt it for your personal play style rather than bitterly argue about the "exact wording".

5) Cut-and-paste designer, padding out a hardback with a template from MMII (when there were no arcane casters other than Sorcerers/Wizards) and not worrying too much about updating the wording.

[MilesTiden]

Oh no, I didn't realize it had been reprinted in Complete Arcane, and nerfed at that. :smallfrown: The DR, SR, and Turn Resistance are all worse. Spellstitched is a template that I'm allowed to take in an arena game on a different forum, and I was definitely considering it, but this is a bit annoying.

[Tommy2255]

Oh no, I didn't realize it had been reprinted in Complete Arcane, and nerfed at that. :smallfrown: The DR, SR, and Turn Resistance are all worse. Spellstitched is a template that I'm allowed to take in an arena game on a different forum, and I was definitely considering it, but this is a bit annoying.

It's still very good, because it lets you use expensive spells as SLAs without xp or gp costs. In fact, it's one of the best ways to do that, if not the best, in the whole system. There's a reason some of the bonus features got nerfed.

[sleepyphoenixx]

As far as i can tell there isn't really a reason. You don't need specific spells to apply the template. The limit is completely arbitrary.


It's still very good, because it lets you use expensive spells as SLAs without xp or gp costs. In fact, it's one of the best ways to do that, if not the best, in the whole system. There's a reason some of the bonus features got nerfed.

It's only really worth it for spells that you plan to actually use a lot, because of the high XP cost.
Even the often-cited usage with Animate Dead is only worth it if you go through a lot of minions or play a really longrunning campaign because Animate Dead is not actually all that expensive.

I'm fairly sure that Dread Necros don't have any often-used spells with a cost that would make spellstitching worth it for normal play.

[Urpriest]

I'm not sure I buy that, particularly when the same book contains three arcane base classes that are not sorcerer/wizard. So... purely conjecture on my part, but:

1) Lazy designer, who just "forgot" there may be other arcane spellcasters that might want to create some undead minions.

2) Stovepipe designer, who was told "make a template for buffing undead minions, assuming you only have access to the Core books".

3) Cautious designer, who was trying to anticipate future abuse from power creep or unforeseen loopholes, and wants to limit the damage to just two base classes.

4) Relaxed designer, who assumes you know of course he would have included Dread Necromancer if that book had been out yet, and you should just adapt it for your personal play style rather than bitterly argue about the "exact wording".

5) Cut-and-paste designer, padding out a hardback with a template from MMII (when there were no arcane casters other than Sorcerers/Wizards) and not worrying too much about updating the wording.

Nope. Oriental Adventures had already been published, so there was at least one other arcane caster around. Not to mention bards, but I could see why they were left out, though I don't agree with it.

In general, the designers had a nasty habit of forgetting to make things expandable with future books. It shows up in a lot of places, this really isn't an unusual one.

[rossdbrain]

Thanks for all your opinions!
I take back what I said about it being because there aren't any other arcane casters that fit with it, it's clear I've overlooked quite a few classes. Now the hard work comes in convincing the GM that it's just a sloppy wording error!

[rossdbrain]

I've never noticed that clause before, but it doesn't actually say that only Wizards and Sorcerers can do it.

Quote from Complete Arcane p161 (identical in MM2 p215):
"Spellstitched creatures can be created only by a wizard or sorcerer of sufficient level to cast the spells to be imbued in the undead's body."