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View Full Version : Player Help [D&D/PF] Daddy, where do new Devils come from?



Rasman
2014-12-25, 01:07 AM
I had a fairly new player ask me this question and, for as long as I've played, I actually don't have a clue. I tried searching the great and powerful Google and mostly found the stuff about why D&D is evil and why Christians shouldn't play D&D and stuff, so that was a bust. So, does anyone know how new devils are created or if new devils are created at all?

mephnick
2014-12-25, 01:12 AM
Someone with better lore skills can correct me, but I believe all souls become formless nobodies in the Hells and if they survive long enough without being destroyed or fading away they can become more powerful versions of devils. If they last long enough and gain power and prestige they can become balors or arch-devils etc.

GorinichSerpant
2014-12-25, 01:12 AM
I think I heard somewhere that devils are made from the most evil souls, by tempering said soul in the fires of hell and demons come from the pain and suffering of souls in the abyss. I don't actually know.

You could always check the D&D wiki if google has failed you.

Zale
2014-12-25, 02:08 AM
IIRC, Devils turn souls they capture/get/steal into other lower ranking Devils.

Though that may just be something that someone suggested to me a while ago that I've run with since.

Greymane
2014-12-25, 03:46 AM
I'm AFB at the moment, but here goes... According to the Fiendish Codex II, Devils come from the tortured remains of Lawful Evil souls. The remains are usually a Lemure. The process of the torture releases divine energy that the Devils use to empower themselves. Lemure's (and any other devil not basically an Archduke already) can be "promoted" to a newer, better, more powerful Devil by their superiors.

That's the basic gist of it, anyhow.

TheCountAlucard
2014-12-25, 03:50 AM
Most all lawful evil souls (or the souls of those who aren't lawful evil, but have sold their souls to devils) are "claimed" by one devil or another long before their mortal shell dies. Once the death occurs, the soul has its memories obliterated by the foul waters of the River Styx; the soul bears the brand of the devil claimant, who has agents on the Shelves of Despond (where the damned souls wash up) to bring it in. Should a soul manage to reach the river unclaimed, the usual response is that the agents fight over it, as it is viewed as an unexpected windfall.

The souls are eventually brought en masse to a place of power, where they are tortured in such a way to wring out any last vestiges of identity, sanity, compassion, et cetera., and they emerge from the process as mindless, gibbering Lemures. It is from this wretched state that proper devils are eventually promoted, uplifted by an investiture of infernal glory.

Of course, it's said that some rare few souls do not undergo this process: their memories are preserved, and with a great working of power, are transformed directly into devils. This happens often enough for knowledgeable people on the Material Plane to be aware of the possibility; that said, perhaps it is a calculated move by the devils - after all, mortals can be so egocentric sometimes, thinking themselves important enough to be given the special treatment.

the_david
2014-12-25, 05:06 AM
I just looked through the AD&D monster manual and Gary had a bit of a different view on this. A LE soul would end up in hell as a Lemure and later be chosen to form a Wraith or Spectre.
NE souls would end up in Hades as Larvae. Both devils and demons wanted them to turn them into Imps and Quasits respectively.

Also, what's the deal with petitioners?

Eldan
2014-12-25, 05:19 AM
Petitioners are what souls end up if they aren't otherwise altered. Forms similar to what they had in life, but with no memories. Eventually, the plane absorbs them.

Marlowe
2014-12-25, 06:22 AM
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/252x373q90/538/Qz2rHc.jpg

the_david
2014-12-25, 07:57 AM
Apparently this is from Planescape:

''Particularly vile petitioners become lemures. Only the most evil of mortals can achieve status as lemures, and they usually end up here regardless of the deity they worshipped in life. Lemures, of course, are despised by all other devils, and they serve the most base duties in any devilish group they are part of. In any initial Blood War confrontation, the lemures are the shock troops that draw the enemy’s fire.''

This is also what I thought of as canon. Ofcourse, after 40 years of D&D, there's no such thing as canon...

Benthesquid
2014-12-25, 08:38 AM
In Pathfinder, the majority of devils are corrupted mortal souls. Others are fallen angels, and at least one was created directly by Asmodeus.

Slipperychicken
2014-12-25, 12:03 PM
IIRC, Asmodeus struck a deal with the gods which said that evil souls go to his domain (ostensibly to punish the wicked and help Asmodeus fight the blood war against the abyss). When a soul arrives in hell, devils torture it until all of its personality is gone, and then they turn that blank soul into a new devil. Once it's a new devil, it serves Asmodeus and can theoretically (assuming it's powerful enough and really good at scheming) climb the ranks of hell over thousands of years and become a stronger form of devil.

Sith_Happens
2014-12-25, 01:22 PM
The details change with each edition but the general principle is the same (except maybe in 4th, someone more familiar with that cosmology would have to weigh in). Either some or most souls that end up in Hell are transformed into Lemures, which can eventually start getting promoted up the CR/level scale.


Of course, it's said that some rare few souls do not undergo this process: their memories are preserved, and with a great working of power, are transformed directly into devils. This happens often enough for knowledgeable people on the Material Plane to be aware of the possibility; that said, perhaps it is a calculated move by the devils - after all, mortals can be so egocentric sometimes, thinking themselves important enough to be given the special treatment.

If one of my characters ever makes a Pact Certain this will definitely be one of his demands.

jedipotter
2014-12-26, 01:17 PM
There are a couple:

1.Plane Born Some devils just 'pop' up, fully formed from the evil plane they live on.
2.Mortal Souls A dead mortal soul goes to the evil plane and becomes a devil.
3.Devil Dancing Two devils get together...and a baby devil is born
4.Other Outsiders Some Outsiders can 'fall'' and become a devil
5.Corruption Anyone can get corrupted and become a devil


Number two is the most common across the games and editions.