Enlarge non-humanoid PC race ?

[nonsi]

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I'm not sure how to go about this one.

Can there be a spell that enlarges/reduces a monster (or at least any PC race, such as Fey, Monstrous Humanoid, Outsider etc.)?
If so, how would you stat it? (level/valid targets/duration/.......)

I see no technical or balancing issues with such a spell (Elan/Dromite/Genasi......).
Does anyone see any problem that I'm missing?

[Milo v3]

Have you looked at the Expansion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/expansion)power? Converting it into a spell shouldn't be difficult. Though, I would just let enlarge affect non-humanoids.

[nonsi]

Have you looked at the Expansion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/expansion)power? Converting it into a spell shouldn't be difficult. Though, I would just let enlarge affect non-humanoids.

I know of Expansion.
Actually, letting enlarge affect non-humanoids seems like the best solution (capping size increase at Large size).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Enlarge <Creature Type> as another first level spell, and Enlarge Anyone as a second level?

[nonsi]

Enlarge <Creature Type> as another first level spell, and Enlarge Anyone as a second level?

Makes sense.
And what if it were a Least invocation? Would you allow it to be applicable for others (save negates), or would you limit it to selfe only?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Enlarge Anyone as a Least invocation? Sure, sounds about right. It'd probably be Fort Negates like the original spell if you want it to affect others... which could go either way, honestly. It's a pretty damn useful spell to have at-will either way.

[Solaris]

I've done a greater enlarge which affected animals, fey, giants, humanoids, magical humanoids, and magical beasts as a 3rd-level spell. I forget the duration I used, but I had it apply the full benefits of the size increase (+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor for Medium to Large).
My party's fighter really liked it.

[nonsi]

I've done a greater enlarge which affected animals, fey, giants, humanoids, magical humanoids, and magical beasts as a 3rd-level spell. I forget the duration I used, but I had it apply the full benefits of the size increase (+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor for Medium to Large).
My party's fighter really liked it.

Of course your party's fighter really liked it.
+4 to hit & damage
+8 to Grapple checks (+ can grapple huge opponents)
+10 HP at the very least
+2 to Fort saves
+2 nat. AC
Better battlefield coverage

All for a single 3rd levels spell.
Yes sir! Sign me on any day.

[Solaris]

Of course your party's fighter really liked it.
+4 to hit & damage
+8 to Grapple checks (+ can grapple huge opponents)
+10 HP at the very least
+2 to Fort saves
+2 nat. AC
Better battlefield coverage

All for a single 3rd levels spell.
Yes sir! Sign me on any day.

We're talking about a game system wherein if you want to play a melee combatant, it's generally better to play a spellcaster than it is to play a fighter.
It's okay to have a spell that buffs up the beatsticks.

[nonsi]

We're talking about a game system wherein if you want to play a melee combatant, it's generally better to play a spellcaster than it is to play a fighter.
It's okay to have a spell that buffs up the beatsticks.

Beatsticks you say....... Fair enough.
Now ask yourself what will happen if a 5th-level wizard facing a 5th-level fighter casts this spell upon himself.
This spell alone eliminates a lot of the Fighter's arsenal advantage (minus HP & AC) - at least at low-mid levels.
Now add Mage Armor & Shield and suddenly the wizard has about the same AC.
Where dose this put Mr. fighter? (remember that it's the wizard that gets to say who benefits from the spell)

Also, beatsticks never suffered from stat deficiency, but rather from option deficiency and mobility deficiency.
Such stat modifiers would make some CR-appropriate challenges trivial - just because your CR-appropriate opponents wouldn't be able to compete.
And worse - such spell belongs to the category "wouldn't leave home without it" spells.

[Solaris]

That puts the fighter at still being a better melee combatant, and the wizard at making the mistake of trying to wade into a melee combat. Sure, he might be doing it about as competently as the fighter (though more fragile; the +2 hp/level isn't compensating for his d4 Hit Die), at least early on in the game (before the fighter's ), but the opportunity cost is killing him (not to mention an attack that punches through his AC... which is, at this level, about even with the fighter's - assuming +4 mage armor, +4 shield, and then the spell's Dex penalty and size penalty canceled out by the natural armor bonus, the fighter is wearing a breastplate and possibly carrying a shield, both of which likely have a +1 enhancement bonus, which sums up to the same AC as the wizard's without burning a couple of spell slots). He could be doing stuff more useful to the party than wading into melee and hitting someone with his quarterstaff.
From the PvP angle, I would love for a wizard to make the mistake of wandering up and trying to beat on me in melee if I were a fighter. His quarterstaff is dealing 1d8+6 damage ('cause a wizard who puts points into Strength is doing it wrong, unless he's a gish). My greatsword is dealing 2d6+6, or my longsword (if I have a shield) is dealing 1d8+4 - and I have Power Attack, with the BAB to back it up (+5 BAB vs the wizard's +2). If the fighter's using a longsword and takes a -3 to-hit, he's got a 1-point damage advantage on the wizard. It gives the fighter a much more sporting chance than if the wizard were to constantly stay out of his reach and hit him with save-or-suck spells or even just blast 'im.
If the wizard's interested in self-buffing, haste is infinitely more useful to him. It actually plays to his strengths rather than having him try to turn himself into a halfway competent fighter.

If the beatsticks wanted options, they would've played casters - or cracked open ToB. It's not about giving them additional options, it's about letting them enjoy some of the caster's encounter-neutralization while still playing to their strengths.

It's been my experience that a wizard generally does render a lot of CR-appropriate encounters trivial. With a spell like this, he's just letting another party member do it instead.

It's like Giacomo's argument that monks are great because they can use Use Magic Device. Sure, the Giamonk could theoretically use UMD, but it's a cross-class skill and there are others who can do it better. A wizard could theoretically employ this spell to try picking fights with fighters, but he'd be second-rate at best and others can do it better.

It's a good and useful buff spell, but it's not like there's no competition. Lightning bolt and fireball beat it for damage output (lots of damage now is better than lots of damage later), at least for small encounters. Fly and haste are at least as good on the buffing front. Heck, at this level the wizard is better off casting his mage armor and shield, then following up with magic missile, glitterdust, hideous laughter, scorching ray, or flaming sphere.