Magic and Ciphertext

[Palanan]

Are there any spells in 3.5 that would help crack an enciphered message?

I'm thinking of two kinds of early cryptography in particular, simple codes and ciphers. The latter substitutes one letter for another according to a particular system, so the ciphertext would read GJXXN GGOTZ NUCOT WMOHY, etc. A basic code would use a short sequence of letters or numbers to stand for full words or names, e.g. 64 97 53, etc. (I'm aware the field has moved on a bit since the 1500s, but that's the stage I'm working with.)

So, are there spells which would crack or bypass these forms of cryptography?

[Snowbluff]

You can cast Divination and just ask what the solution is. :smalltongue:

[Cruiser1]

Are there any spells in 3.5 that would help crack an enciphered message?
Breaking a code should be a Decipher Script skill check. If you want magical help, cast any spell that buffs a skill check (or buffs INT which that skill is based on).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Snowbluff
You can cast Divination and just ask what the solution is.

I don't think that would work in this case. Divination gives "a useful piece of advice" on a particular "goal, event or activity," and the advice comes in the form of "a cryptic rhyme or omen." This is very different from extracting the precise plaintext original from an enciphered message.


Originally Posted by Cruiser1
Breaking a code should be a Decipher Script skill check.

This is very much up to an individual DM, but I would say Decipher Script does just what it says, which is to understand writing "in an unfamiliar language or a message written in an incomplete or archaic form." The challenge is in the fragmentary or exotic nature of the writing system; there's no mention of breaking codes that I can see.

Decipher Script might tell you what languages use the characters involved, but ciphertext requires some additional form of analysis.

[NichG]

A substitution cipher isn't that different from an unknown language, since there's a one-to-one mapping of words to words in the cipher. E.g. whether or not "Apple" is "WSSAQ" or "thronheig", it's basically the same problem. If anything, it's easier to decipher the cipher than the language because there's an additional pattern on top of it that lets you do the translation letter-by-letter (so it's like translating an unknown language with only ~30 words).

On the other hand, I could buy the argument once you reach things like a substitution cipher whose key rotates or changes over the course of the message. Now in one place "Apple" is "WSSAQ" but in another place it's "DHHUV".

[Snowbluff]

I don't think that would work in this case. Divination gives "a useful piece of advice" on a particular "goal, event or activity," and the advice comes in the form of "a cryptic rhyme or omen." This is very different from extracting the precise plaintext original from an enciphered message.


"The letters are ciphered with x with y as the key" is a good piece of advice. Adding a rhyme isn't going to hurt that. Not to mention it would help crack the cipher either way, which is what the OP asked for.

[Milo v3]

Decipher Script might tell you what languages use the characters involved, but ciphertext requires some additional form of analysis.

.... are you suggesting Decipher Script cannot decipher script? :smallconfused:

[NichG]

"The letters are ciphered with x with y as the key" is a good piece of advice. Adding a rhyme isn't going to hurt that. Not to mention it would help crack the cipher either way, which is what the OP asked for.

Of course, you could just as well get:

"Know that each sigil hides the face of another, each to its kind. Know thee the eighth word and know thee the message: the birth of light and darkness; the land one can never reach, yet which adventurers ever seek."

when the message is 'January eighth, spotted dragon ships on the horizon. Send reinforcements to Port Alderton.' and it's a simple substitution cipher.

That's also 'a good piece of advice', but it may not really be news to the caster.

[Khedrac]

There's a good argument that the spell Scholar's touch would enable one to read the text - as it requires on to understand the language, and an encoded message is still in the base language...

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by NichG
On the other hand, I could buy the argument once you reach things like a substitution cipher whose key rotates or changes over the course of the message. Now in one place "Apple" is "WSSAQ" but in another place it's "DHHUV".

Indeed, and many encryption systems in this period were a combination of substitution ciphers and extensive code lists, often with multiple substitutions possible for certain letters. There's a lot you can do with a system like that.


Originally Posted by Snowbluff
"The letters are ciphered with x with y as the key" is a good piece of advice. Adding a rhyme isn't going to hurt that. Not to mention it would help crack the cipher either way, which is what the OP asked for.

Divination is described as a dialed-up version of Augury, which is meant to tell whether a particular action would be a good or bad decision. Similarly, Divination is focused on advice for a "specific goal, event or activity," so I don't think it would automatically give a cipher key or the like. A carefully worded Divination could help get at the sense of it, but still wouldn't provide a direct decryption.

That said, I did mention "bypass" in the OP, so I'll keep Divination in mind as one possible approach--and certainly more potent if used in conjunction with other spells, although so far I haven't heard anything that would provide a surefire decryption.


Originally Posted by NichG
That's also 'a good piece of advice', but it may not really be news to the caster.

And there's this too. Plus the fact that a basic Divination always has a chance of providing false information, which could end up doing more harm than good for your decryption effort.


Originally Posted by Khedrac
There's a good argument that the spell Scholar's touch would enable one to read the text….

I was indeed thinking about Scholar's Touch. As I recall, it gives you a general understanding of a book, without much detail, and that might help in comprehending the overall sense of an encrypted message.

The language restriction is interesting, though, because that would mean a message in an obscure language could be encrypted and resistant to Scholar's Touch.

[Cruiser1]

Decipher Script might tell you what languages use the characters involved, but ciphertext requires some additional form of analysis.
Using Decipher Script skill checks to create or break codes is RAW (CA page 98). You MUST take 10 on a Decipher Script skill check when creating a ciphertext. That sets the DC that a decoder must make, when attempting to break your code with their own Decipher Script check.

[atemu1234]

Using Decipher Script skill checks to create or break codes is RAW (CA page 98). You MUST take 10 on a Decipher Script skill check when creating a ciphertext. That sets the DC that a decoder must make, when attempting to break your code with their own Decipher Script check.

Cool. I have a new use for the rogue / fighter I made.