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aspekt
2014-12-26, 09:03 PM
Is there a d20 game with character creation and action based on skills rather than classes/roles?

I have enjoyed WEG's system in the past, but my group has had a lackluster response to it. GURPS, I will openly admit is not a system I'm fond of, though I can see it's attraction.

So I'm having difficulty finding a game for the group that will let them build classless characters. I'm hoping if I can find one similar enough to d20 this might help.

Raine_Sage
2014-12-26, 09:35 PM
The only classless games I can really think of are d6 systems or d100 systems (Call of Cthulu, anything done by White Wolf, Eclipse Phase, etc.) d20 doesn't really lend itself to classless games I don't think.

mephnick
2014-12-26, 09:43 PM
They did a d20 version of Call of Cthulhu and I think it lost a lot in translation.

So I kind of agree with raine that d20 doesn't lend itself to skill-based characters that well. Feels like there's a lack of range or something.

aspekt
2014-12-26, 09:49 PM
I was kind of thinking this as well. But I thought I would see if anyone had run across such a system.

Hiro Protagonest
2014-12-26, 09:54 PM
There's really no reason to have d20. Most of them are d6 (regular or Fudge dice), White Wolf's are d10 if you consider those to be of the correct type (there are a lot of powers, active or passive or both depending on the game, and you are limited to the ones that belong to your "class", which is rather broad but a Solar can't just take a Dragon-Blooded charm). I guess... Mutants & Masterminds? I think it's d20.

aspekt
2014-12-26, 10:45 PM
I guess... Mutants & Masterminds? I think it's d20.

I'll check it out thanks.

I may just poke around with some homebrew to see if I can come up with something.

Kid Jake
2014-12-26, 11:00 PM
I was about to suggest Mutants and Masterminds too. If there's a concept you can't play using that system, you're not trying hard enough. I've ran everything from Pokemon and Superheroes to Gritty Fantasy and even Shadowrun using the M&M rules; if you're dead set on a quasi-D20 system then you just can't beat it in my experience.

It's also nifty that there's a handy SRD (http://d20herosrd.com/) for poking through.

Knaight
2014-12-27, 12:55 AM
Mutants and Masterminds is the obvious one. I think True 20 is classless and fits, but I might just have forgotten classes in it.

That said, there are tons of classless systems that aren't WEG or GURPS. I personally lean to Fudge, which was made by a GURPS author who got sick of GURPS's...GURPSness.

LibraryOgre
2014-12-27, 08:58 AM
Is there a d20 game with character creation and action based on skills rather than classes/roles?


I worked up a classless version of Star Wars Saga (http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2013/07/classless-saga-and-other-alterations.html) that could be adapted to D&D-based d20, though you'd have to do a lot more work to make it work for 3.x style casting, skill points, and other inequalities.

The way it's set up, you can make whatever you like, from smuggler to Jedi to senatorial to Jawa, with your choices of feats and talents helping to define your character and specialties.

Hytheter
2014-12-27, 05:00 PM
Why does it have to be d20 specifically?

Milodiah
2014-12-27, 06:57 PM
Honestly, what is the d20 system without classes? They're kinda built into the system, after all.

Besides, I don't think d20 is the greatest system in the world anyway, what's the appeal of trying to find a version of it so demolished and reconstructed that it barely even resembles itself? BRP and ST say hi.

The White Wolf system isn't necessarily chained to their fluff and setting, but at the same time it seems a bit...slim...if you put blinders on it and shave off everything but regular mortals. BRP, however, is almost universal. Whether the skill list features flint knapping and animal skinning or quantum physics and artificial intelligence, it still handles the same.

aspekt
2014-12-28, 03:03 AM
Use of d20 is due mostly to familiarity, while I agree that classes are a fairly strong feature of the system, I dont think they have to be primary to it.

It looks like MnM might be what I'm looking for, though I like the idea of "GURPSness out of GURPS" enough that I will browse the Fudge system as well.

As far as MnM goes, is there a particular edition I should look for or avoid, as I browse amazon?

aspekt
2014-12-28, 03:17 AM
p.s. is there a relationship between FATE and Fudge?

Knaight
2014-12-28, 03:39 AM
p.s. is there a relationship between FATE and Fudge?

Fate stole the Fudge ladder, Fudge dice, etc. It also took the skill system, removed the attributes, removed gifts and faults, and added aspects. They're pretty different games, Fate was just built on Fudge. Later editions of Fate then systematically purged all reference to Fudge in the rules. The die mechanics are essentially identical for both, but beyond that they're pretty divergent games.

Mr.Sandman
2014-12-28, 06:49 AM
As far as MnM goes, is there a particular edition I should look for or avoid, as I browse amazon?

Most people use 3rd edition these days, but 2nd is a lot closer to its D20 roots. 3rd can do a little bit more when building your powers but the Abilities are different, and Reflex has been rolled into your Ranged 'armor class' called Dodge.

Kid Jake
2014-12-28, 12:33 PM
As far as MnM goes, is there a particular edition I should look for or avoid, as I browse amazon?

I prefer 2e myself since it's got some awesome supplements and from what I've seen characters can be a bit crazier, but 3e has an SRD that you can look over without having to buy a book first.

Knaight
2014-12-28, 01:32 PM
I have second, and don't play it nearly enough to justify getting third. With that said, third is probably worth getting as a starting point, even if it isn't really worth converting to unless you play a lot.