Irresistible Dance and metamagic : Irresistible Spell

[With a box]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/irresistibleDance.htm
If we belive KoK's spell level adjustment, the hypothetical de-metamagiced spell "dance" would be 4th level spell. but it doesn't make any sence.

where would you put this Irresistible dance, dance, and level adjustment of Irresistible spell?

[eggynack]

Doesn't seem too far off. Compare this to something like baleful polymorph. It's a spell level higher, but for that disadvantage you get longer range, lower possibility of immunity, much greater duration, and on the basis of that duration, less need for further actions to destroy the target. I don't think "dance" would be all that out of place in the game, though it would admittedly be quite good.

[Douglas]

Dungeons and Dragons Online, the MMO version of D&D, has "Otto's Resistible Dance" (yes, that's what they actually call it) as a level 2 spell. This seems reasonable to me, after looking at the core sor/wiz level 2 list and seeing Web, Glitterdust, and (especially) Hideous Laughter.

This would also put the price of Irresistible Spell metamagic at +6, high enough that the lowest level 1st-party instant kill I know of (Phantasmal Killer) cannot be used with it pre-epic without cost mitigation.

[sleepyphoenixx]

This would also put the price of Irresistible Spell metamagic at +6, high enough that the lowest level 1st-party instant kill I know of (Phantasmal Killer) cannot be used with it pre-epic without cost mitigation.

If you're capable of casting 8th level spells it doesn't really matter if you can use Irresistible Spell on a mediocre single-target SoD that most enemies will be immune to by that point anyway, so that's not really a balance consideration imo.

If you allow Irresistible Spell at all i'd go with the (non-official) errata that makes it add +10 to the save DC instead of removing the save and keep the +4 adjustment.

[ericgrau]

Mind affecting, has a save, has SR, melee range and short duration. 4th level may be a bit high if anything, but the spell was always better for bards anyway. Perhaps Bard 2, Sor/Wiz 3. Compare to the similar hold person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdPerson.htm) which isn't even that great of a spell. Though hold person also grants a save each round and only works on humanoids; without those two drawbacks it might be ok.

So yeah I'm sticking with level 3, and even then it's a bit situational. Like hold person it's good to synchronize with some melee allies. Like many enchantments it's situational. You could make it level 2 but then you might want to make all enchantment a level lower and that's a big mess. Plus those that properly plan and synchronize their enchantments will have an unfair advantage. Enchantment is kind of a weak school, but mostly it's hard to use. It can be good with a lot of work. Including a level 3 "Dance". All you have to do is target an enemy next to 2-3 melee allies and he'll be dead from attacks of opportunity in a round or two. Could be better than hold person, but worse than confusion.