OOTS #971 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Keltest]

Naturally, we all forget that the golem guy has green skin as well.

[Kildayen]

Is she a revenant?

Didn't see that coming.

[Rakoa]

I didn't see that coming.

[esotErik]

Well this is getting interesting.

[Vodnuth]

Well that answers the "Who was it?" questions. While she was pretty rotten in life, it's still a shame to see her desecrated like that. Does anyone know what she is? I'm not too good with my undead.

[Cuthalion]

Oh my. I thought if anything she'd be rezzed.

[ManicOppressive]

Apparently Crystal was not, in fact, worth resurrecting. Not surprising.

[Quirk]

Nice Haircut. :D

[Welf]

Oh? Chrystal is back? But why (in a plot sense)

[Carl]

Ooookay. WTH. Seriously this is unexpected. Sounds to me like something may have happened between us last seeing bozzok and now, can't see the golem guy willingly working with the thieves guild. Not after the raid anyway.

[Sian]

Here we go again ...

[Mando Knight]

Is she undead, or a flesh golem? I'm guessing the former, in which case they'd better regroup with Roy ASAP because of his sword...

[orrion]

Oh? Chrystal is back? But why (in a plot sense)

'Cause Bozzok hates Haley?

[sabremeister]

Well, that can't be good.

(It's Belkar's turn to kill her)

[Michael7123]

Ohhhh! New text bubble type!

I'm really curious what type of undead she is, or if she's a flesh golum, like other people have been saying.

[Brahamut]

Perhaps Grubwiggler did the job for his own benefit - he's using the most powerful corpse around to get revenge on Haley for the multiple betrayals involved when she returned to Greysky.

[Scublacus_Venn]

Is she undead, or a flesh golem? I'm guessing the former, in which case they'd better regroup with Roy ASAP because of his sword...

Don't forget. Hayley has cool wands now. It's probably "exactly the spell" she needs.

[Shale]

This definitely strikes me as Undead Crystal rather than Golem Crystal. The golem wouldn't have her verbal tics.

[LordofNaught]

Wait, Crystal?! Of all the foes that could drag themselves up to get revenge for anything, it was her? That was.... not something I expected to see. Ever.

[Lanaya]

Purple skin and funky text boxes? She doesn't look undead, but what else could she be?

[Mauve Shirt]

Woooo Haley Drama Time!

[Zolem]

She's undead. Golems cannot speak.

[Ionbound]

Damn. Just...damn.

[BannedInSchool]

I'm scared. :smallfrown:

[Aerolith]

I expected Crystal to be revived, but not like this.

Belkar's comment about her being redundant because Sabine is already her arch-nemesis gets better by the minute. It feels like a meta arms race to see who can be Haley's true rival.

[Keltest]

Purple skin and funky text boxes? She doesn't look undead, but what else could she be?

The stitches suggest Flesh Golem of some sort, however the mannerisms are inconsistent with a golem of any type. Perhaps she is a zombie that has been upgraded with parts from other corpses?

[YossarianLives]

There goes all the "Thog is returning theories". Damn that was unexpected.

[Stealth]

Certainly caught me off guard.

Let's see. Corporeal undead, human shape, no weapons, attacked with fists...a wight?

[GM_3826]

I have to admit, this is pretty awesome.

[Dissection]

this comment was dumb, please disregard me

[RebelRogue]

:smalleek: I must say, I wouldn't have recognized Crystal if her name wasn't explicitly mentioned.

[Keltest]

Certainly caught me off guard.

Let's see. Corporeal undead, human shape, no weapons, attacked with fists...a wight?

That would certainly be consistent with her manner of death, as well as her appearance, not to mention the ability to sneak up on the party in the middle of a city. It would also explain why she wasn't resurrected properly, since iirc Wights can spontaneously rise if the person was hateful enough when they died.

[DaggerPen]

What

What

WHAATTTT

Oh my god. I knew it was probably Bozzok, but really did not see that coming.

Should have guessed that the ambush would be now, though, while all the heavy hitters are out.

[Dusk Eclipse]

As for why Crystal (and presumably Bozzok) are in the gnome city, remember that Geofrey (Haley's uncle) did send Bozzok a message that they were in the Western Continent and were planning on going to the Dwarven lands.

[Stealth]

That would certainly be consistent with her manner of death, as well as her appearance, not to mention the ability to sneak up on the party in the middle of a city. It would also explain why she wasn't resurrected properly, since iirc Wights can spontaneously rise if the person was hateful enough when they died.

SRD says that wights are "a weird and twisted reflection of the form it had in life," and have +8 to Move Silently checks. That seems to line up with what we've got so far given Crystal surprising them and being quickly recognized by Haley, as well as the surprising amount of injury on Elan after Crystal punched him in the face (not to mention the distance he was launched)--living creatures hit by Wights gain negative levels.

I'm not wholly sure about wights rising spontaneously myself, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the power of spite is enough to bring her back from death.

[Yana]

Is this a new running gag where Elan gets swatted offpanel by a villain early on in a book?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, I guess this confirms that it's the Thieves Guild. What the hell is up with Crystal?

We've seen what Wights look like; this isn't it.

[madtinker]

Dun dun DUNNNNN

Awesome! Never saw that coming.

[oppyu]

Bozz didn't feel like paying for a rez so he had someone golemify her instead? What a ****.

[Kish]

Crystal doesn't resemble Tsukiko's wights at all (as Jaxzan noted while I was writing this). Nor is a purple speech bubble a black one. Nor is the person who said "golems can't speak" Rich Burlew.

If it turns out she's not a flesh golem, I will be very surprised.

[SiuiS]

Well that answers the "Who was it?" questions. While she was pretty rotten in life, it's still a shame to see her desecrated like that. Does anyone know what she is? I'm not too good with my undead.

It actually looks like one of those weird incarnum guys. Lost?

Still. We'll see. And it's pretty cool regardless.


'Cause Bozzok hates Haley?

Doesn't jive. He's it a business deal with her. Wouldn't do to trip that up now.

[YossarianLives]

If it turns out she's not a flesh golem, I will be very surprised.
Flesh golems are mindless and much bigger than a average human. I think they're actually made up of about five corpses.

[oppyu]

Doesn't jive. He's it a business deal with her. Wouldn't do to trip that up now.

Bozzok already tried to kill Haley in one of those fancy bonus strips available to people who feel like paying for international shipping. Plus Haley explicitly broke the deal afterwards.

[ShaneWegner]

"Oh no! Crystal is a horrible, brain dead, bad-smelling monstrosity with terrible hair!" "Yeah, and now she's undead too!"

[Lkctgo]

So they paid the golem-maker back his stuff to animate her as a pseudo-golem?

[oppyu]

In the bonus strips (again, only available to people who buy paper books), they also killed Grubwiggler (the golem doctor dude).

[CoffeeIncluded]

Okay, I really wasn't expecting this. And I'm also surprised tha whatever Crystal has become hasn't been identified yet, given the nature of the forum. :smallwink:

[orrion]

Certainly caught me off guard.

Let's see. Corporeal undead, human shape, no weapons, attacked with fists...a wight?

No level drain on Elan; couldn't be a wight.

Plus, we've had wights in the comic already, and while I'm not saying they would have to look identical to Tsukiko's wights they should have at least something in common.


That would certainly be consistent with her manner of death, as well as her appearance, not to mention the ability to sneak up on the party in the middle of a city. It would also explain why she wasn't resurrected properly, since iirc Wights can spontaneously rise if the person was hateful enough when they died.

That doesn't explain the stitched limbs and such. Nor why Elan wasn't level drained when attacked; we should have seen the aura that's associated with level draining even if Elan resisted it.

[Porthos]

Well.

This ought to send the forum into speculation overdrive. :smallamused:

And, Yay! Was in fact almost certainly Bozzok we saw last strips. Not sure exactly what we're seeing now, mind. But I'm sure it will all become apparent soon enuf.

[Vinsfeld]

Holy crap.

Also, I'm curious about what kind of undead she is now.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

This ought to send the forum into speculation overdrive. :smallamused:

You mean even more speculation than last thread? :smalleek:

Just want to say right now that since Grubwiggler is dead and none of the golems we saw could talk or think for themselves, I doubt that Crystal is a Golem. I'm just not sure what she actually is.

[SaintRidley]

Okay, this is cool.

[Leliel]

Well, her new sad, unhallowed, and tax-deductable state appears to be a lot stronger, and she appears to have been sewn back together at some point.

Maybe revenant?

[SarahV]

I'm guessing at least half of all OOTS readers had the phrase "I did NOT see that coming" go through their heads at some point while reading this... :smallbiggrin:

[shamgar001]

:elan: If you don't say out loud what you got, then there's a better chance that they're exactly the spell you need later.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If she lists them all off, like spy gadgets, she'll be ensuring that whatever challenges she'll face will be solved by one of them, right?

[Gift Jeraff]

Naturally, we all forget that the golem guy has green skin as well.

Crystal killed Grubwiggler in a bonus strip. However, at least 1 of his assistants may have survived. Or perhaps Bozzok saw resurrecting Grubwiggler and having him indebted to the Thieves' Guild as a better investment.

[Porthos]

You mean even more speculation than last thread? :smalleek:

Actually? Yes. :smalltongue: Construct? Undead? Something Else? This thread is already all over the place and we're only two pages in.

I'm leaning toward some sort of enhanced construct, myself. But my 3x fu is relatively weak at the moment from disuse, so I'm not familiar with all of the possible Templates that could be in play here.

3x does have a few, after all. :smallwink:

[ericgrau]

So many questions. Like why zombified rather than raised from the dead? Why not zombie Miko? :smalltongue: Or group of zombie kobolds who hate Belkar. Or zombie 100 other characters some people want back for the lols, while others wish badly they'd never return. Also funny... at their expense I admit. Is this just so Bozzok can tell her that undead no longer have their original minds as a Durkula plot point?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Maybe revenant?

Taking a look at revenant, that seems like a pretty good fit. Crystal's strength does seem a little extreme, but maybe that's to show that she's more powerful?

[ti'esar]

what the heck?!

[Jaxzan Proditor]

3x does have a few, after all. :smallwink:

That can't be right. Why, next you'll be telling me it has more than several splatbooks!

[Traab]

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If she lists them all off, like spy gadgets, she'll be ensuring that whatever challenges she'll face will be solved by one of them, right?

Nope, because if you have a box full of random items, you can always say later, "I have just the thing to fix this problem!" If you list them all, thats all you have. I read this exact same lampshade in a harry potter crack fic. Sirius and harry cleaned out filch's office of all confiscated contraband, and when harry was about to talk about what they got sirius went, "Shhh! Dont say anything, just pack everything. That way when you need it, you can just pull it out of the box! If you list everything you have, you might need something that wasnt on the list!"

[Porthos]

Taking a look at revenant, that seems like a pretty good fit. Crystal's strength does seem a little extreme, but maybe that's to show that she's more powerful?

IF what I found on the net is Official Forgotten Realms splat handiwork and not some random homebrew (not going to link to it since I don't know the status of it - but it ain't hard to Google), then the revenant's ability to "find its killer" as long as it is on the same plane (and in exceptional cases, even off the plane) could/would neatly explain just how Bozzok was able to home in on Haley so exactly.

Why would it have a purple speech balloon instead of the normal black? Beats me. To signify the voice difference, maybe? That's my best guess at any rate.

[ti'esar]

Okay, so, moving to analysis: she looks kind of like a flesh golem, and doesn't have the undead black speech bubbles. But she also still seems to have some part of her living mind left (...such as it was, anyway), which golems don't.

...I got nothing.

[WindStruck]

Nice Haircut. :D

ROFL, that's like exactly the first thing they said before too!

Looks like Crystal arrived Wight on time.

[Porthos]

IF what I found on the net is Official Forgotten Realms splat handiwork and not some random homebrew (not going to link to it since I don't know the status of it - but it ain't hard to Google), then the revenant's ability to "find its killer" as long as it is on the same plane (and in exceptional cases, even off the plane) could/would neatly explain just how Bozzok was able to home in on Haley so exactly.

Why would it have a purple speech balloon instead of the normal black? Beats me. To signify the voice difference, maybe? That's my best guess at any rate.

Looking a bit further, it appears that the Revenant I found is from the City of the Spider Queen Forgotten Realms supplement. And, therefore, no I am not linking the Stat Block I found. :smalltongue:

So, yes. Does seem to fit nicely. So far at any rate. Only oddity is the speech balloon. But I'm sure it'll be explained soon enuf.

[Giggling Ghast]

Yeah, I was thinking Revenant as well.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

IF what I found on the net is Official Forgotten Realms splat handiwork and not some random homebrew (not going to link to it since I don't know the status of it - but it ain't hard to Google), then the revenant's ability to "find its killer" as long as it is on the same plane (and in exceptional cases, even off the plane) could/would neatly explain just how Bozzok was able to home in on Haley so exactly.

Why would it have a purple speech balloon instead of the normal black? Beats me. To signify the voice difference, maybe? That's my best guess at any rate.
That's a really good point about location. It also makes sense that Crystal would want vengeance. However, the physical description seems to fit some things and not others. :smallconfused: Well, I'm sure we'll get more clues soon.

[Porthos]

Yeah, I was thinking Revenant as well.

The nice thing about the revenant theory is that it is a common enough term/word/name* so that it shouldn't confuse people who aren't familiar with D&D and/or its bazillion splatbooks should Rich actually use it in the comic by name.

"Oh, yeah. Some kind of funky undead. Cool."

* Though my spellchecker doesn't recognize it for some reason. Go figure. :smalltongue:


That's a really good point about location. It also makes sense that Crystal would want vengeance. However, the physical description seems to fit some things and not others. :smallconfused: Well, I'm sure we'll get more clues soon.

Rich could be modifying it to suit his purposes, don't forget. Easy enough to do for a (somewhat) obscure splated Template. Could even call it a Homebrew version of it like he did for the Ghost Martyrs of the Sapphire Guard, which were basically the Deathless/Risen Martyrs with the serial numbers filed off. :smalltongue:

[dps]

:smalleek: I must say, I wouldn't have recognized Crystal if her name wasn't explicitly mentioned.

Nor would have I.

[stsasser]

Nor would have I.

Her stitched-up head wounds match pretty closely to how Haley left her. I'm sure some obsessive fan would have identitified her that way eventually.

[zql]

So... you think you can make your nemesis go down a level by killing her? She's back, with a template.

[Jordan Cat]

I was most definitely not expecting Crystal to show up again.

I too did not know it was her until Haley said her name, amazing what undeath can do to a person isn't it? :smallbiggrin:

[Brendanicus]

WOW, did not see that one coming. Golem Crystal go!

[Akolyte01]

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If she lists them all off, like spy gadgets, she'll be ensuring that whatever challenges she'll face will be solved by one of them, right?

Nah, that's only if there's one wang wand, so it can be A Chekov's Gun. :smallbiggrin:

[Almaseti]

Geez, another side villain to deal with? Are we ever getting back to Xykon?

[Death Knight of]

Hats off to the giant for the originality that makes him such a great storyteller. I think he created some new flesh golem or something. Remember, the comic may follow the rules of DND 3.5e, but much of it is out of his own mind.

[kierthos]

Her stitched-up head wounds match pretty closely to how Haley left her. I'm sure some obsessive fan would have identitified her that way eventually.

Indeed. I was about to remark on that myself. Crystal was last seen in strip #648, where all of her injuries had not yet been healed, and the killing blow (by Haley) is consistent with the slash between her eyes.

As to what she is... Golems, to the best of my knowledge, cannot talk. Sire Burlew is, of course, free to have a home-brewed golem that can talk, but it's probably more likely that she is undead. Revenant, perhaps, or Gravetouched Ghoul. There is another sort of undead (whose name escapes me) which is based off of the corpse of a murderer, but I seem to recall that it looked much more different than the person it was based on (beyond skin coloration and hair loss), although the purple skin and patches of hair at least seem to indicate that some putrification is going on.

[t209]

What kind of creature have Crystal have become (too intelligent to be a zombie and too gray to be a ghoul)?
Either Bozzok was monstrous enough to transform her into that "thing" (cost effective and efficient but monstrous) or she volunteered for it after her resurrection.

[DaggerPen]

(too intelligent to be a zombie and too gray to be a ghoul)?

I believe this may be the first time that has ever been said about Crystal.

[AmewTheFox]

Hm. I can't say Crystal was high on my list of people I expected to return. I guess this means all villans need to be dealt with in Disintergration -> Gust of Wind? I mean, it is the only real way to truly finish off someone in the OOTS-verse.

[LuisDantas]

Oh? Chrystal is back? But why (in a plot sense)

One possible reason is to bring back Haley's secrets. Remember, Haley lied to Elan about her fate. There is a high chance now that he and Roy will lose trust in her, at a time when the team is already somewhat stretched in that regard due to Durkula.

This may be the start of trying time for the OOtS when it comes to mutual trust.

[NerdyKris]

Nope, because if you have a box full of random items, you can always say later, "I have just the thing to fix this problem!" If you list them all, thats all you have. I read this exact same lampshade in a harry potter crack fic. Sirius and harry cleaned out filch's office of all confiscated contraband, and when harry was about to talk about what they got sirius went, "Shhh! Dont say anything, just pack everything. That way when you need it, you can just pull it out of the box! If you list everything you have, you might need something that wasnt on the list!"

Also, since this is a serial comic released in parts, where the minute details of the plot are fluid, instead of a book or movie released in one shot, Rich doesn't have the benefit of going back and changing the list of wands to include what he needs later. It's better to leave things as vague as possible to fit every situation, as he's stated before. And that means not listing the wands until they're needed.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Rich could be modifying it to suit his purposes, don't forget. Easy enough to do for a (somewhat) obscure splated Template. Could even call it a Homebrew version of it like he did for the Ghost Martyrs of the Sapphire Guard, which were basically the Deathless/Risen Martyrs with the serial numbers filed off. :smalltongue:
Good point. Plus, as the size of a few creatures show, this wouldn't be the first time The Giant has messed around with the physical traits of a monster.

Hm. I can't say Crystal was high on my list of people I expected to return. I guess this means all villans need to be dealt with in Disintergration -> Gust of Wind? I mean, it is the only real way to truly finish off someone in the OOTS-verse.
I wasn't expecting Crystal to stay dead for long. In a world with so many ways to bring someone to life/in death, it's almost a foregone conclusion. However, I was hardly expecting this.

[ti'esar]

Remember, Haley lied to Elan about her fate.

Actually, she told him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) eventually. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html)

[Sir_Leorik]

Whoa. I did not see that coming, at all. :smalleek:

[Vodnuth]

What I'm wondering is if the "Nice boots" comment is indicative of sentience or intelligence/ memory or whether it is just a leftover knee-jerk reaction to seeing Haley, like a shadow or something coming from the mind of living Crystal, ie Is she Crystal or just a mindless undead (I'm leaning towards the Durkula effect, not quite Crystal but still not mindless)

[Zea mays]

Hm. I can't say Crystal was high on my list of people I expected to return. I guess this means all villans need to be dealt with in Disintergration -> Gust of Wind? I mean, it is the only real way to truly finish off someone in the OOTS-verse.

I'm still waiting for Kubota's mother to come seek revenge on a certail elf.

Nice comic though.

[canpinter]

now heres a question, has the rival effect been leveling her up?

[Ghost Nappa]

This comic came out of left field for me.


But then something clicked. Elan got punched out of the scene deliberately. That way Bandana and Haley could battle bond. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0959.html)

[Leliel]

Looking a bit further, it appears that the Revenant I found is from the City of the Spider Queen Forgotten Realms supplement. And, therefore, no I am not linking the Stat Block I found. :smalltongue:

So, yes. Does seem to fit nicely. So far at any rate. Only oddity is the speech balloon. But I'm sure it'll be explained soon enuf.

I get the sense a revenant's original soul is still the one in the driver's seat, so to speak, and they're made with the express purpose of ending their own existence eventually. So different text bubble, because they're not like other undead.

[An Enemy Spy]

This may have already been stated, but if Crystal was undead, wouldn't she have black speech bubbles?

[Ridureyu]

YAY, THOG RETURNS TO... wait, what?

[HalfTangible]

This may have already been stated, but if Crystal was undead, wouldn't she have black speech bubbles?

Unless she's a flesh golem.

...

Cuz, ya know. They have a guy that can do that.

[Pyron]

Unless she's a flesh golem.

As a construct, I think she'd work better as a Psion-Killer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psionKiller.htm).

[Drake2009]

but...wait.... if its the golem guy, shouldnt he have had green eyes in the other panel? cause he had green eyes, and different shade of green skin too!

[AvangionQ]

Looks like a flesh golem to me ... and who says free-willed golems cannot speak? Guessing her mental stats all took a hit, but aside from that ...

[Porthos]

but...wait.... if its the golem guy, shouldnt he have had green eyes in the other panel? cause he had green eyes, and different shade of green skin too!

As has been pointed out a couple of times in the thread:

Grubwiggler was killed by Crystal in the Book Only content. Now he could have been raised, but it's likely that the person we saw last strip isn't him.

[Giggling Ghast]

Just a thought, but she could be a cadaver golem, a creature from Heroes of Horror. Looks like a flesh golem, but highly intelligent.

[Emperordaniel]

Huh. Well, that happened.

[allenw]

Most likely: intelligent flesh golem. Frankenstein's creature was intelligent, so I've always thought flesh golems should be too (and I know they can be, with templates).
Less likely: half-golem template. But that's generally a result of having a golem limb grafted on, and Crystal's had more extensive work done than that.

In either case, Bozzok (whom we saw earlier ) got Grubwiggler to make her, if necessary after Raising him.

[Alaska Fan]

The thing to remember is that Bozzok may very well be around, too, with Crystal as his stalking horse. The green face seen through the door didn't look much like this latest version of Crystal.


This comic came out of left field for me.


But then something clicked. Elan got punched out of the scene deliberately. That way Bandana and Haley could battle bond. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0959.html)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Looks like a flesh golem to me ... and who says free-willed golems cannot speak? Guessing her mental stats all took a hit, but aside from that ...
Unlikely that it is a flesh golem, as they are said to be mindless and unable to talk. From what we have seen of them in the comic, they follow the SRD entry for Golem.

Just a thought, but she could be a cadaver golem, a creature from Heroes of Horror. Looks like a flesh golem, but highly intelligent.
Now, that's an interesting idea, as it allows her to be a golem while still retaining a measure of sentience and intellect.

[Anarion]

I'm happy to see the thieves guild making a move. And Crystal's looks improved! :smallbiggrin:

[goto124]

Took me a while just to remember that Crystal is Haley's rival from the Thieves' Guild (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html).

Crystal golem is purple. Not the green person we saw last strip.
If that hidden green person is Bozzok, why did he make the trip himself? Didn't trust anyone else to control undead Crystal?

[AmewTheFox]

Good point. Plus, as the size of a few creatures show, this wouldn't be the first time The Giant has messed around with the physical traits of a monster.

I wasn't expecting Crystal to stay dead for long. In a world with so many ways to bring someone to life/in death, it's almost a foregone conclusion. However, I was hardly expecting this.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to in my post.

I suppose the reason it surprised me was because...Crystal didn't stand out to me as a villain. It was mostly the half-orc's show. Granted, I read past that at light speed and not update speed where a week usually passes between strips to really process it. Crystal just struck me as being a rival for petty reasons. Whatever the case, she's back, and in Haley's face.

[runeghost]

Something like "alchemical resurrection" was my first thought, but now I'm leaning towards revenant.

[runeghost]

One possible reason is to bring back Haley's secrets. Remember, Haley lied to Elan about her fate. There is a high chance now that he and Roy will lose trust in her, at a time when the team is already somewhat stretched in that regard due to Durkula.

This may be the start of trying time for the OOtS when it comes to mutual trust.

Nah, at least on the Elan front. Elan is too dumb and trope-savvy to start doubting Haley. (Even if he should, he won't.)

[Gnome Alone]

Man, it must he weird being confronted by the sentient corpse of someone you murdered. I've always thought Haley was reasonably justified in killing Crystal, but seeing the, uh, desecrated corpse result thereof is making me feel kinda funny, and not like when we used to climb the rope in gym class. Kinda like how I never liked Tsukiko, but I still felt bad for her when Redcloak brutally murderered her and had her eaten by her own wights. Gah.

[AgitoSasaki]

Oof. Well we know for sure that Crystal didn't lose any strength being turned into...whatever she is now.

Anybody care to enlighten me where Crystal's knife (the Crysknife) went, by the way? No reason, just curious.

[ThePhantom]

Harley took her knife. I don't know if she still has it or not.

[AmewTheFox]

Harley took her knife. I don't know if she still has it or not.

I'll bet she sold it. Or gave it to Belkar.

(yes this is speculation)

[Peelee]

I'll bet she sold it. Or gave it to Belkar.

(yes this is speculation)

I'll take that bet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html).

[AmewTheFox]

I'll take that bet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html).

Huh. Well, I missed that detail.

[Reboot]

Harley took her knife. I don't know if she still has it or not.

If this - http://www.d20resources.com/menaces.d20/menaces/revenant.template.php - is to be believed, then IF she's a revenant, showing Crystal that knife should panic her. And slashing at her with it would be one of the few ways to do her genuine damage.

[Tiiba]

Sure a good thing Elan doesn't have a nose, that would've hurt.

[DemonRoach]

Wonder if she got an intelligence boost from being Undead anything (Remember "-" can be higher than a penalty :P)

[Porthos]

If this - http://www.d20resources.com/menaces.d20/menaces/revenant.template.php - is to be believed, then IF she's a revenant, showing Crystal that knife should panic her. And slashing at her with it would be one of the few ways to do her genuine damage.

That looks to be a different revenant than the one I saw earlier.

*checks*

Yep. It's from d20 Modern (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/article/20030923a). :smallsmile:

[LuisDantas]

Took me a while just to remember that Crystal is Haley's rival from the Thieves' Guild (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html).

Crystal golem is purple. Not the green person we saw last strip.
If that hidden green person is Bozzok, why did he make the trip himself? Didn't trust anyone else to control undead Crystal?

That is one possibility. My guess is that he wanted to make the threats, revenge discourses or demands in person.

[Pronounceable]

It takes real creativity to pull a fast one over a gathering of this nitpicky and speculatory individuals, yet Giant did it again. And this is even more surprising than disguised Zzditri.

Five thumbs up.

[137beth]

Well that answers the "why would Bozzok come here himself instead of sending minions?" question. I was not expecting Crystal:smalleek:

[Buretsu]

One possible reason is to bring back Haley's secrets. Remember, Haley lied to Elan about her fate. There is a high chance now that he and Roy will lose trust in her, at a time when the team is already somewhat stretched in that regard due to Durkula.

This may be the start of trying time for the OOtS when it comes to mutual trust.

But Haley presumably came clean about killing Crystal in #670, when Haley said she was going to tell Elan how she got "[her] new dagger".

[GAAD]

What the -
:smallcool:
Well, that happened.
Are we doing this again? Please tell me we're doing this again.

[Porthos]

But Haley presumably came clean about killing Crystal in #670, when Haley said she was going to tell Elan how she got "[her] new dagger".

Given their short dialogue afterwards in 672 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html), I'd say it is a safe bet that she told Elan everything.

[factotum]

now heres a question, has the rival effect been leveling her up?

Has Haley actually levelled up since she killed Crystal in the first place? She's mostly been killing low-level mooks.

[sandcrawler]

Blaspheme maybe? :smallconfused:
Quote from "Open Grave - Secrets of the Undead":

A creature constructed from the parts of dead bodies and
given life, a blaspheme serves as the Frankenstein’s monster
of D&D. Its mindless cousin is the flesh golem, a hulking
brute created for destruction. When you want a smart foe
that is tactically savvy, learns from its mistakes, and talks to
the PCs, a blaspheme is the better choice.
Because of the combination of a devious intellect and
the touch of madness, a blaspheme can make a compelling,
capable villain.

[Lord Raziere]

purple skin.

purple text.

purple text box.

know whats also purple?

The Snarl.

What if reality is starting to break down a little because of the Snarl starting to be released? after all, unraveling the threads of the world of how things work ought to do more than just destroy, but also wreak havoc with the rules of things as well. like people coming back from the dead for no reason.

and that this is just the first sign?

Just saying.

*Relurks*

[Darth Paul]

OK, time to start checking for types of undead that have an Intelligence score and a slam attack. At least enough intelligence score to remember the nice boots.

(What is it with undead and boots in this comic? First the booted wight, now Crystal...))

[Stella]

She's undead. Golems cannot speak.
Most undead can't speak either. A flesh golem "cannot speak, although it can emit a hoarse roar of sorts." Rule of cool can easily bend "hoarse roar" into her catch phrase for Haley. Especially since it doesn't look like her at all (to me at least) and that allows Haley to identify her to the readers.

What I'm wondering is where the backup is. A flesh golem isn't really a challenge for Haley and Elan, and they have Bandana for whatever help she might provide, assuming she is high enough level to not simply withdraw immediately because she's in too much danger of being killed.


Points for flesh golem:
21 STR, for the slam attack that tossed Elan.
Visual appearance, stitched together, etc.
Fairly high level, CR7. 9d10+30 HP plus good defenses (immunity to most magics, damage reduction, construct so no sneak attack damage, etc.)
Grubwiggler makes golems.
- Grubwiggler has splotch skin, and the green guy we saw through the door did not.
- Spoke. But again rule of cool trumps rules.

Points for, say, Mummy:
24 STR, for the slam attack that tossed Elan.
Visual appearance. Not wrapped but that's not a requirement.
Fairly high level, CR5. 8d12+3 HP and DR5/-, decent saves. Mostly built for offense over defense though.
Can speak Common.
- No confirmation for the despair effect yet, the last 5 panels could be a surprise round.
- Rot will also have to wait.

[magic9mushroom]

Note that the effect she tossed Elan with was the same visual as the effect for Collision weapons. It is definitely magical or psionic in some fashion.

My guess is Spellstitched Template. Because the magic of Spellstitching would explain the non-black speech bubble, and the template gives magic capabilities. And, y'know, stitched.

[fwiffo]

About the wands... don't any of all yall watch James Bond movies? If Bond gets a pen that can be twisted to shoot a stream of acid and twisted again to make metal-cutting laser, then by golly, a few days later he will need to shoot acid and cut metal.

Elan may know his storytelling convention, but he is wrong here. You absolutely have to tell readers what your stuff does, lest you be hearing "Deus ex Gadget" from irate fans.

I predict in next few strips Obscuring Mist will save the day.

[Ave]

:smalleek: I must say, I wouldn't have recognized Crystal if her name wasn't explicitly mentioned.

The haircut helps.

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

I'm in stiches over this development :smallsmile:. Thanks.

Merry Christmas all and a Happy New Year.

[ti'esar]

One potential piece of evidence against this being a golem, from the DStP "Get Roy" bonus sequence:

When the "mega-golem" Belkar fights roars, it has black and green speech bubbles - totally unlike this Crystal-thing's purple bubbles.

[Mike Havran]

Well, I suppose this makes a better employee than the living Crystal.

[Lordchoculla]

" Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
(too intelligent to be a zombie and too gray to be a ghoul)?"
I believe this may be the first time that has ever been said about Crystal.

Hmm... cannot imagine it being said about too many people, really... :smalltongue:

[Neoriceisgood]

Huh.

For a stickfigure she's actually kinda creepy looking. :smalleek:

[Mariel Dragon]

Called it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?96723-Crystals-Face):smallwink:

[Nenec]

I'm all for the Revenant theory, it makes sense and it's cool. Especially it makes sense for them finding her.
However, when I saw her I thought about some Frankenstein monster type of creature, so a cadaver golem may be good too.


Has Haley actually levelled up since she killed Crystal in the first place? She's mostly been killing low-level mooks.

I don't think so, but I remember she got a great chunk of xp from killing Crystal.


"Oh no! Crystal is a horrible, brain dead, bad-smelling monstrosity with terrible hair!" "Yeah, and now she's undead too!"
This made me laugh hard :D

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Has Haley actually levelled up since she killed Crystal in the first place? She's mostly been killing low-level mooks.

The Class and Level thread says that she has because of all the XP gained by the Order during their victory over Tarquin.

[HandofShadows]

Crystal showing up, no great surprize. The state she is in? A scary surprise. :smalleek:

[ShurikVch]

Purple skin and funky text boxes? She doesn't look undead, but what else could she be? Lower plane petitioner? http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/fc1_gallery/98458.jpg
http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/FC2_Gallery/101453.jpg

[Kingault]

Wait, was Haley's breaking the deal a bonus strip or a regular strip that I missed? Also, when in the timeline kill the golem maker guy? I know that the bonus strips are only in the books, but I can't even find summaries of what plot they have, if any. All I remember hearing about is the golem guy getting killed and something between Sabine and Nale.

[hamishspence]

In strip 620, Hank proposes a deal - that involves Haley having "never actually left the guild"

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0620.html

In 621, a factor of it is revealed - that Haley retroactively owes them money.

And in 648, Haley reveals "the deal is off"

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html

[Bulldog Psion]

What the -
:smallcool:
Well, that happened.
Are we doing this again? Please tell me we're doing this again.

It did indeed happen. Whether by happenstance or not is another matter, as it happens. :smallwink:

Anyway, I see that Mr. Burlew still has the capacity to surprise half the board, including myself.

Crystal appears to be some sort of golem, stitched together like that. But an advanced golem with some mind and personality left. Weird stuff.

[Jay R]

About the wands... don't any of all yall watch James Bond movies? If Bond gets a pen that can be twisted to shoot a stream of acid and twisted again to make metal-cutting laser, then by golly, a few days later he will need to shoot acid and cut metal.

Elan may know his storytelling convention, but he is wrong here. You absolutely have to tell readers what your stuff does, lest you be hearing "Deus ex Gadget" from irate fans.

I predict in next few strips Obscuring Mist will save the day.

Yes, but the movie comes out all at once. They can modify the Q-scene (or R-scene) in which he gets the equipment after they decide he needs something else.

This is a serial. The main plot is worked out, but the details, and especially the jokes, are invented for each strip. If Rich discovers that his punch line for strip number #1027 requires a wand of Glitterdust, he's better off not having identified all the wands.

Evidently Elan is not only genre-savvy enough to know they're in a story, he's even genre-savvy enough to know it's a serial.

And having specifically shown Haley with unidentified wands, and made clear that they are unspecified so they can turn out to be the exact wand needed, it's not a "deus ex machina", it's been foreshadowed already. I would even expect it to be turned into another joke at the time, when Elan says, "See? By not naming the wands before, you can now say that one of them is Glitterdust, just to get the punchline."

[Crod]

So this is where Belkar bites it, right? Based on his comments in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0616.html where he pretty much doomed himself at Crystal's hands.

[nogall]

I'm surprised no one else commented (as far as I could read) about the art style. I think this strip is one of the main reasons for the art upgrade. The stitched up body parts are much more impressive when you can show limbs and all than if it was just the head, in the old style...

great strip, by the way.

[kierthos]

So this is where Belkar bites it, right? Based on his comments in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0616.html where he pretty much doomed himself at Crystal's hands.

Can't see it happening here. I mean, yes, Crystal is back, but she's still Haley's nemesis. Plus, Belkar, Roy and Durkula are elsewhere in town. While theoretically, they could show up before this fight is resolved, I think it's going to be on Haley and Elan (once he gets back up) to deal with it. (With maybe an assist from Bandana.)

[Themrys]

I have next to no knowledge about D&D undead, but I am pretty sure that Crystal is an intelligent undead (well, as intelligent as she was in life), and came back for revenge. And this is why we shouldn't kill even our worst enemies in a needlessly cruel manner: It makes them more likely to come back for revenge.

[hamishspence]

The main reason I'm doubtful about her being undead, is that the default speech bubble for undead seems to be white text on black background.

Coloured rather than white backgrounds tend to be associated with creatures that aren't humanoid - dragons, plants, outsiders, etc.

[Jay R]

Belkar's right. Sabine is definitely hotter than that.

[Osiris]

Do note that Grubwiggler, the golem guy, is not perfect. As you can see, he brings his golems to life with lightning (a la Frankenstein). This method is possibly not as precise as a magical process of making a golem. Crystal may be a sort of hybrid between golem and zombie. Thus, she appears as a zombie-ish golem which can (sort of) speak.

[Ghost Nappa]

Called it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?96723-Crystals-Face):smallwink:

How the HELL did you manage to pull that off? Well done.

[hamishspence]

Do note that Grubwiggler, the golem guy, is not perfect. As you can see, he brings his golems to life with lightning (a la Frankenstein). This method is possibly not as precise as a magical process of making a golem. Crystal may be a sort of hybrid between golem and zombie. Thus, she appears as a zombie-ish golem which can (sort of) speak.

Keep in mind Grubwiggler may not be available to create Crystal, since

he was killed by Crystal.

[Peelee]

They can modify the Q-scene (or R-scene)

Still Q. Calling the new Q "R" was a joke, and a poor one at that since a lot of people took it as a de-facto name change (it's a job title, not a name - Quartermaster). Old Q was Major Boothroyd, new Q was not given a name. Both have the position of Q. At least in the films. I don't read the novelizations of the newer movies.

[Reboot]

Crystal appears to be some sort of golem, stitched together like that. But an advanced golem with some mind and personality left. Weird stuff.

The wounds basically match the ones she had when she died (including the big slash across her face that killed her), remember.

[kierthos]

Aha... the type of Undead I was trying to remember was Mohrg (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/monstersMtoN.html#mohrg).

Slam attack? Check.
Created from the body of an unrepentant murderer? Check.
Huge 'Move Silently' bonus? Check.

If she has a paralytic tongue attack in the next strip, I think we have a winner.

[kierthos]

The wounds basically match the ones she had when she died (including the big slash across her face that killed her), remember.

Although, on second glance, she also has stitching/scars on her arms in the latest comic. Impossible to tell in her previous appearance (#648) because of the art style in that comic.

[Ivrytwr]

Not ready for that twist. Grubwiggler comes around too?
This is going to be interesting.
Thanks Giant.

[AbyssStalker]

So this is where Belkar bites it, right? Based on his comments in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0616.html where he pretty much doomed himself at Crystal's hands.

I think it is more likely Belkar is about to make good on the "drop a house on you" comment, and I can't see her survive that, she'll golem-p for good!

What nobody, Sweet Banjo, you just can't entertain people with cheesy puns now-a-days.

Wow, Crystal really shouldn't have taken that shower, the pickle juice would have helped preserve her, now she looks better than before.

But in all serious-ness, is it possible the Belkar's prophecy will be fulfilled by becoming a golem? I mean, this new development with Crystal puts that in mind for me, but, then again we are not quite sure if she is a golem. If Belkar became an intelligent golem he would probably stand a better chance against Durkula.

[jidasfire]

While I wouldn't say it's a dead certainty that Crystal is a golem over undead, I think there's a pretty strong case for it in story. Firstly, Bozzok, while he's a man of great resources, has shown no access to undead minions up to this point. If he had any wizards or sorcerors strong enough to create them, he would have used them against Haley in their last dust-up, and it seems the only clerics he has in his pocket are those of Loki, who don't strike me as undead-makers (as it is reasonable to assume the only god in the Northern pantheon who approves of that is Hel). On the other hand, Bozzok clearly does have access to golems, and all it would take is a simple raise spell on Grubwiggler or hiring one of his underlings to purchase their services. One has to figure Grubwiggler probably blames Haley for his death and Bozzok is sly enough to play that like he's his friend. Plus, in terms of the grander story, the Order already has undead threats from Xykon, Redcloak, Durkula, and Hel, so it might be overdoing them to have yet another undead-themed enemy.

So why make Crystal a golem instead of raise her? Couple of reasons make sense to me. Once Haley killed her, it stands to reason they're no longer real rivals, and Crystal doesn't get her level jumps anymore. As such, Bozzok needs something stronger to stand up to Haley, some real muscle. He probably paid his new golem-making allies a boatload of money to make her a custom golem of some kind (which he can clearly do, see the three-headed golem from the bonus material), with a little more brains and a lot more power. My guess is also that Bozzok hasn't yet shown his full hand. Grubwiggler himself may also be on hand. He's a wizard of at least moderate power, and may have a few more of his creations running around. And who knows? Maybe Bozzok has a cleric of Loki at his back as well. No, I'm not suggesting it's Belkar's friend. It may be someone new, or it may be a certain other cleric we know. It would be a good excuse to get Hilgya back in the comic, although that is obviously just speculation. Still, my initial concerns that Bozzok was underprepared for this fight seem unfounded now.

[littlebum2002]

I'm rely not surprised that Crystal is back. As Elan and Durkon would say, maybe not in that EXACT manner, but we knew Bozzock was still after Haley, so why wouldn't he bring his strongest ally back from the dead to help?

Of course, "back from the dead" is a very open ended term in this universe, but you know what I mean.


About the wands... don't any of all yall watch James Bond movies? If Bond gets a pen that can be twisted to shoot a stream of acid and twisted again to make metal-cutting laser, then by golly, a few days later he will need to shoot acid and cut metal.

Elan may know his storytelling convention, but he is wrong here. You absolutely have to tell readers what your stuff does, lest you be hearing "Deus ex Gadget" from irate fans.

I predict in next few strips Obscuring Mist will save the day.

Would you rather break out just the wand you need, and hear "Deus ex Gadget", or not have the wand you need and be dead? Elan is completely correct here. Don't identify the wands so you always have just the one you need.



The haircut helps.
Why would the fact that she has a different haircut than Crystal help identify her? I don't remember Crystal having random bits of hair sticking out in different directions.

[Fanatic-Templar]

I disagree with Elan on this one. Telling us what the wands do turns them into Chekhov's Guns, they will almost certainly be necessary to overcome a future obstacle. You can do the same with an 'unspecified wand' I suppose, but you can't do the same trick six times.

[Tragak]

Have you noticed that Crystals skin is rather bright, but on the backside of her head it becomes dark? Such hard color transitions... *gasp* is she probably a fleshgolem (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html)? November 15, 2008.

HOW did you do that?

[Stella]

Called it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?96723-Crystals-Face):smallwink:


How the HELL did you manage to pull that off? Well done.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Which is to say that if you shake enough epileptic trees you're bound to have something nice fall out every once in a while.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Called it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?96723-Crystals-Face):smallwink:

Wait, we're you predicting that Crystal always was a golem, or that she would be brought back as one*? Because that thread looks like the former to me.

*this, by the way, has yet to be proven

[littlebum2002]

I disagree with Elan on this one. Telling us what the wands do turns them into Chekhov's Guns, they will almost certainly be necessary to overcome a future obstacle. You can do the same with an 'unspecified wand' I suppose, but you can't do the same trick six times.

You're right, you can't do the same trick six times. So once you use an identified wand as a Checkov's Gun, that trick is used up.

[Ratzinkaiser]

Hmm... Is she perhaps a Spellstitched Necropolitan?

[kierthos]

Wait, we're you predicting that Crystal always was a golem, or that she would be brought back as one*? Because that thread looks like the former to me.

*this, by the way, has yet to be proven

I would find it highly unlikely that Crystal was a golem when we previously saw her. She could talk, she didn't need specific commands to do something, and she was intelligent (for a given value of intelligence).

It is possible that she is a golem now, but that would require Grubwiggler (or an associate) to have created her, and there are certain plot barriers that make that unlikely. Whereas a Create Undead spell is far more likely. By the d20 SRD, if the caster is 11th level or lower, you can create a Ghoul, 12th-14th level, a Ghast, 15th-17th level, a Mummy, and 18th level and up, a Mohrg. And while an 18th level caster could also cast Resurrection or True Resurrection, those spells are far more costly. (Resurrection - 10,000 gp in diamonds, True Resurrection - 25,000 gp in diamonds, Create Undead - 50 gp per HD of undead created in black opals)

If we assume that Bozzok is not only a cheapskate, but wants to get the most bang for his buck, Create Undead is the way to go.

[Animidest]

Wow. That was extremely unexpected. How will Haley handle this? There's no way she can take down a golem/undead thing by herself.

[kierthos]

Wow. That was extremely unexpected. How will Haley handle this? There's no way she can take down a golem/undead thing by herself.

Yeah, both constructs and undead are not subject to critical hits and sneak attacks. It's actually a good tactical choice to use against a rogue. Now if Elan gets back to his feat and starts using his Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds offensively....

[Shining Wrath]

Zombie's don't talk.

This is Revenant Crystal, back from the dead to seek revenge on her murderer. And Bozzok is helping her.

[Emperordaniel]

What the -
:smallcool:
Well, that happened.
Are we doing this again? Please tell me we're doing this again.

It did indeed happen. Whether by happenstance or not is another matter, as it happens. :smallwink:

Anyway, I see that Mr. Burlew still has the capacity to surprise half the board, including myself.

Crystal appears to be some sort of golem, stitched together like that. But an advanced golem with some mind and personality left. Weird stuff.

I agree with both of you, it's fairly obvious that it happened. Now, as to how it happened...

Does anyone happen to have a theory on that?

[Bongos]

Bozzok has come back to get Haley. That's got to be him, can't see it being Grubwiggler, he's too short and looks different.

Crystal appears to be some sort of Golem, probably of the same sort seen in #578. There's one in that strip that resembles her perfectly. I guess we will find out soon what kind.

Got a wand for that Haley?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I agree with both of you, it's fairly obvious that it happened. Now, as to how it happened...

Does anyone happen to have a theory on that?

There are a few out there. I'm favoring the idea that she's a revenant, others have proposed that she is a golem of some kind.

[CletusMusashi]

I suppose the biggest question is: can whatever she is now fly?
'Cause, that's kind of a thing with Haley's nemeses.

[Reboot]

Crystal appears to be some sort of Golem, probably of the same sort seen in #578. There's one in that strip that resembles her perfectly.

Different shade (more blue) and - more to the point - all the Golems there had RED eyes. Crystal here has normal black ones.

[Brumagris]

Boy, that was unexpected... and kind of creepy too.

This new Crystal thing, even though at the beginning I would have put my money on undead, now I gotta think about Golem.

The first two hints for the golem theory are first one her speech color, wich is not undead one. I have read that, because she is a special kind of undead she may use a different kind of speech, yet notice that even Xykon, the evilest, most powerful and most free willed of undeads, speaks following the normal undead pattern.

Secondly, even though it is very small, when Crystal hits Elan a small scar can be seen in her hand. As far as I know, that scar should not be there in normal conditions.

So, 10 gold say this is a custom made upgraded golem with hints of free will crafted by Gurbwiggler upon Bozzok request (as payment for being raised, perhaps, plus extra point of perverting Crystal´s body as revenge). It looks plausible that both have joined forces in order to take payback from Haley´s offenses.

What else will we have coming¿? I gotta say I am looking forward to see a potential full party lead by Bozzok himself

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[deuxhero]

I'm going to refrain from speculating on the speech bubble because I have no idea if any "rules" stayed between art upgrades

I think the characters won't be able to figure what she is now either. Only one of the Order has Knowledge: Religion ranks

Also didn't that same character recently get the ability to command undead?

[faustin]

Is this the way in which the Giant tell us questionable actions may always come back to bite the characters in their asses (in this case, Haley assassinating Crystal on cold blood)?

[dark62410]

Hi newbie here. I agree with Kierthos, because she fits most descriptions of Mohrg. Slam attack, speed bonus, don't know about the intelligence tough. However i have another theory. The basic concept of the Snarl that it destroys everything like an Orb of Destruction, just on a bigger scale, right? Well what if the Snarl rather than doing that, simply unveils things, or creates alternate counterparts. Its not literal destruction, rather its creating strange plot-holes, and contradictions in the existence of the given world that it implodes on narrative scale.

[Sniffnoy]

I was hoping the Order might get attacked in town! This seems like a good time to remind people of the existence of the death pool thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?272967-OOTS-death-pool-%28thread-4%29)...

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, a Morhg has an intelligence of 11, so it can think and speak. I guess we'll see whether this is the case depending on whether a tongue attack is next. :smalleek:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I was hoping the Order might get attacked in town! This seems like a good time to remind people of the existence of the death pool thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?272967-OOTS-death-pool-%28thread-4%29)...

Out of curiosity, how come that thread isn't in this forum?

[Emperordaniel]

Out of curiosity, how come that thread isn't in this forum?

I think it used to be, but it got moved.

[kierthos]

Well, a Morhg has an intelligence of 11, so it can think and speak. I guess we'll see whether this is the case depending on whether a tongue attack is next. :smalleek:

I'm not sure if there is a Mohrg template, but with the 11 Int, I would assume that if there is a Mohrg template, it would be +0 Int from the base creature. Based off of the d20 SRD, I would guess a Mohrg has +10 Str, +8 Dex from the base creature. Considering that Crystal was a rogue, and more to the point, Haley's nemesis, we can safely assume that she had a well above average Dex (16-18 range), but there's been no indication of a profoundly higher then average Str (so probably in the 10-14 range).

At a minimum (assuming she is a Mohrg currently), we're looking at a base strength of 20, possibly up to 24 (which, given the distance Elan was punched/slammed, seems fair), and a Dex of 24, possibly up to 28. Even without her magic jewelry (which Haley either has or has sold), that's a +7 to +9 AC bonus, which would put her AC in the 26 to 28 range.

That's not impossible for Haley to hit with at least her first couple shots, but then it becomes problematic. Plus, as noted earlier, assuming she is undead (or going with the other strong theory in this thread of Crystal being some sort of golem) she's immune to sneak attack damage and critical strikes.

If Haley doesn't get some help (or doesn't have a wand that would solve this), this is going to be a tough fight. And only going to be made tougher if/when Bozzok joins the fray.

[SoC175]

I'm not sure if there is a Mohrg template, but with the 11 Int, I would assume that if there is a Mohrg template, it would be +0 Int from the base creature. Based off of the d20 SRD, I would guess a Mohrg has +10 Str, +8 Dex from the base creature. Considering that Crystal was a rogue, and more to the point, Haley's nemesis, we can safely assume that she had a well above average Dex (16-18 range), but there's been no indication of a profoundly higher then average Str (so probably in the 10-14 range).

At a minimum (assuming she is a Mohrg currently), we're looking at a base strength of 20, possibly up to 24 (which, given the distance Elan was punched/slammed, seems fair), and a Dex of 24, possibly up to 28. Even without her magic jewelry (which Haley either has or has sold), that's a +7 to +9 AC bonus, which would put her AC in the 26 to 28 range.

That's not impossible for Haley to hit with at least her first couple shots, but then it becomes problematic. Plus, as noted earlier, assuming she is undead (or going with the other strong theory in this thread of Crystal being some sort of golem) she's immune to sneak attack damage and critical strikes.

If Haley doesn't get some help (or doesn't have a wand that would solve this), this is going to be a tough fight. And only going to be made tougher if/when Bozzok joins the fray.This is a mohrg: http://www.kotll.com/srd3.5/img/MonstersM-N.Mohrg.jpg

It doesn't just have a tongue attack, it's intestines-like tongue or tongue-like intestines are the defining feature of this particular breed of undead

[kierthos]

This is a mohrg: http://www.kotll.com/srd3.5/img/MonstersM-N.Mohrg.jpg

It doesn't just have a tongue attack, it's intestines-like tongue or tongue-like intestines are the defining feature of this particular breed of undead

There are also pictures of a Mohrg with some skin left. Regardless, I'm not saying she is a Mohrg. I'm saying she could be a Mohrg. It is one of the options when using Create Undead (along with Ghoul, Ghast and Mummy). I mean, if Crystal as a golem is getting plenty of theory-crafting here, we should consider another likely option... undead.

Let's look at those options (the ones available through Create Undead. I think we can safely say this is not a skeleton or zombie):

Ghoul - 2d12 hps. The fight is over before it starts. Even though Haley doesn't get sneak attack or critical hit damage, a ghoul doesn't have enough hps to make this a fight that lasts longer than one page. Also, with at best, a +2 Strength mod, a ghoul isn't doing the type of slam attack that knocked Elan away. And given the average level and gear complement of the OotS members, a DC 12 Fort save to resist paralysis isn't going to stop any of them. (Ironically, the one OotS member who would be least likely to make the save is the one who is immune to it - Vaarsuvius.)

Ghast - 4d12+3 hps. The fight lasts quite a bit longer, and the stench ability helps prolong it, but I think there would be some indication of that ability in the current comic (stench lines, haze in the air, something). The DC to save vs. paralysis is higher (15), but again, not horribly difficult to make. Problem is, as written, both the ghoul and ghast use bite and claw attacks, not slam.

Mummy - 8d12 + 3 hps. Difficult fight. Despair, Mummy rot, slam attack. Enough hps to make the fight last a while against a lone attacker, the despair can keep others from getting involved long enough to matter, and mummy rot is always vicious to deal with. Not enough information to say whether or not Crystal is a mummy, but if she is, it would appear that both Bandana and Haley made their save vs. the Despair effect.

Mohrg - 14d12 hps. Very difficult fight. Slam attack, paralyzing attack (with tongue). By herself, Haley would be hard pressed to win this fight. Elan's not necessarily out of the fight, but there's not a lot he can do vs. undead. (Although he does have a handy Cure Moderate Wounds wand...)

Again, Crystal is not necessarily a Mohrg. She could be some other type of undead... gravetouched ghoul with class levels, wight with class levels. (Honestly, if she's any sort of undead with less than 8 HD, she better have class levels, or the fight won't last long, regardless.)

Or, as others are saying, she could be a golem. (I'm leaning against that, given the speech, the lack of glowy eyes, etc.) Or something else that none of us have considered.

[Killer Angel]

Back from a short vacation and...

:smalleek:

wow... that, was unexpected!

[Ridureyu]

So, did Crystal's attack put a status effect on Elan, or actually knock him unconscious? Because if she's strong enough to take him from full to 0 or below with one slam, she's not to be trifled with.

[kierthos]

So, did Crystal's attack put a status effect on Elan, or actually knock him unconscious? Because if she's strong enough to take him from full to 0 or below with one slam, she's not to be trifled with.
Could just be an attack for "Plot" damage. I mean, yeah, I've been mentioning slam attacks frequently in this thread, but let's face it, it's whatever Sire Burlew wants it to be.

[Tragak]

I think the characters won't be able to figure what she is now either. Only one of the Order has Knowledge: Religion ranks Actually, I don't think even he has any :smallcool:

[kierthos]

Actually, I don't think even he has any :smallcool:
Durkon might not. Durkula probably does.

[Gnoman]

Is this the way in which the Giant tell us questionable actions may always come back to bite the characters in their asses (in this case, Haley assassinating Crystal on cold blood)?

Hardly. Crystal was going to be trying to kill Haley no matter what, and there's a good chance that the Guild would be after her, no matter what. Haley's only "mistake" was assuming that the Guild would have had Crystal raised from the dead, which would have been enough to slow their revenge down long enough to get out of their likely reach. In other words, she plainly overestimated the level of loyalty within the Guild, and underestimated Bozzok's ruthlessness.

[Keltest]

Hardly. Crystal was going to be trying to kill Haley no matter what, and there's a good chance that the Guild would be after her, no matter what. Haley's only "mistake" was assuming that the Guild would have had Crystal raised from the dead, which would have been enough to slow their revenge down long enough to get out of their likely reach. In other words, she plainly overestimated the level of loyalty within the Guild, and underestimated Bozzok's ruthlessness.

That is of course assuming that Crystal's current state is the result of deliberate actions, rather than sheer hatred or some other plot reason (Haley's nice boots, for example) bringing her back.

[zyxophoj]

So much speculation on Crystal's creature type...

My guess: Permanency-ed Animated Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm) (with Magic Mouth cast on it; that should explain the purple speech bubble)

[Spriteless]

Hmm, I guess this makes Haley mentioning how this comic's female characters unfortunately used to hurl sexist insults a few comics back, that some people thought was The Giant having political views (Oh Noes!), and others thought was just two female characters socializing, was actually The Giant creating a bit of forshadowing that Crystal was coming back. Well, probably all three. It was pretty efficient writing, now that we've seen all it was carrying.

Or have we? Is Sabine gonna come back too? Is the use of a rival itself forshadowing? Might Hilgya (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html) from book 1 have been gaining levels by being Durkon's rival?[/epiliptic tree]

[Ridureyu]

Hmm, I guess this makes Haley mentioning how this comic's female characters unfortunately used to hurl sexist insults a few comics back, that some people thought was The Giant having political views (Oh Noes!), and others thought was just two female characters socializing, was actually The Giant creating a bit of forshadowing that Crystal was coming back. Well, probably all three. It was pretty efficient writing, now that we've seen all it was carrying.

Or have we? Is Sabine gonna come back too? Is the use of a rival itself forshadowing? Might Hilgya (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html) from book 1 have been gaining levels by being Durkon's rival?[/epiliptic tree]


And now we have MUTILATED WOMEN being used on-panel for entertainment purposes! Clearly, this proves that The Giant is mysoginist!

(not serious)

[BannedInSchool]

And now we have MUTILATED WOMEN being used on-panel for entertainment purposes!
I was momentarily very confused about what the hell thread I wandered into. :smallbiggrin:

[Tragak]

Wait a minute...

Haley is a Rogue + Crystal is either an Undead or a Construct = Bozzok is a genius :smalleek:

[Angelalex242]

Well, if she is a Morhg, I wonder if she'll use her 'tongue attack' on Bandana.

...Cause, ya know. :P

[Keltest]

Wait a minute...

Haley is a Rogue + Crystal is either an Undead or a Construct = Bozzok is a genius :smalleek:

That just means that Elan gets bonuses for saving the damsel in distress. Assuming he wakes up.

[ti'esar]

If Crystal is a golem, and Grubwriggler did create her - and yes, I know he was dead when last seen... then I wonder if we'll wind up getting a flashback joke about Giro the hunchback needing to fetch extra brains for the process.

[Keltest]

If Crystal is a golem, and Grubwriggler did create her - and yes, I know he was dead when last seen... then I wonder if we'll wind up getting a flashback joke about Giro the hunchback needing to fetch extra brains for the process.

Im sensing an "Abby Normal" joke in the making here. And another dig at Crystal's intelligence score.

[Reboot]

Mummy - 8d12 + 3 hps. Difficult fight. Despair, Mummy rot, slam attack. Enough hps to make the fight last a while against a lone attacker, the despair can keep others from getting involved long enough to matter, and mummy rot is always vicious to deal with. Not enough information to say whether or not Crystal is a mummy, but if she is, it would appear that both Bandana and Haley made their save vs. the Despair effect.

We've seen mummies before, and they didn't do much except freak V out for non-template reasons: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0856.html http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0857.html

[BungleBee]

Hope Haley has enough arrows.

[Particle_Man]

I wonder . . . they are in a steampunk/eberron town, could the "crystal monster" be something associated with eberron or steampunk?

Minor note: Looks like Crystal was given clothes to wear, not just a towel. But not her usual backless black outfit either.

[Poppy Appletree]

For those fixating on the speech bubbles as reasons for why Crystal is or isn't something in particular, just remember that Malack didn't have undead speech bubbles until he vamped up, Buffy-style. I imagine he might have used some kind of magic to achieve that effect, but it serves as a warning against placing too much stock into speech bubbles.

[Bulldog Psion]

In my case, it's the stitched-together look throwing me, rather than the speech balloon color. Never seen anything like that before on an undead.

[KillingAScarab]

Note that the effect she tossed Elan with was the same visual as the effect for Collision weapons. It is definitely magical or psionic in some fashion.

My guess is Spellstitched Template. Because the magic of Spellstitching would explain the non-black speech bubble, and the template gives magic capabilities. And, y'know, stitched.While I, too, think this may be the Spellstitched template we're looking at, I don't believe the new style of movement lines are indicative of a special weapon property on Crystal's hand.

Haley has just divulged how she is so happy to branch out into duplicating spells, the sudden appearance of a sneak-attack proof creature wouldn't be an interesting enough challenge without a way for Crystal to also sling some spells. It seemed clear enough to me that, like Belkar, Crystal didn't have a spellcasting stat high enough to use spells provided by her Assassin prestige class, but a Spellstitched creature would have spell-like abilities imbued based upon wisdom rather than intelligence. Haley is limited to using wands (which contain spells of 4th level or lower) and it seems unlikely we'll see 6th level spell-like abilities from Crystal, so it should be a good match. Plus, it requires a spot check to notice the identifying runes, "otherwise simply appearing to be cracks in the creature's bones or wrinkles in its skin," but I can see that being spun as stitching.

The one downside to using Spellstitched on a rival of Haley is the ban on transmutation spells. Crystal won't be able to cast Fly on herself.

[Reddish Mage]

I wonder . . . they are in a steampunk/eberron town, could the "crystal monster" be something associated with eberron or steampunk?

Minor note: Looks like Crystal was given clothes to wear, not just a towel. But not her usual backless black outfit either.

I find it quite a bit weird and unsettling the this new Crystal-thing doesn't look anything like Crystal, and doesn't wear the same clothes, have a feminine body shape, hair, jewelry or even a single identifying feature.

[kierthos]

I find it quite a bit weird and unsettling the this new Crystal-thing doesn't look anything like Crystal, and doesn't wear the same clothes, have a feminine body shape, hair, jewelry or even a single identifying feature.

Could it be that Haley is supposed to think it's Crystal and it's a bluff? I'm not sure what the point of that would be, but it would be out of left field...

[CletusMusashi]

She was brought back to life by Jim Henson. Her creature type is the Dark Crystal.

[Rater202]

Blaspheme.

Undead creatures that are surgically altered.

Alternatively, she's an awakened Zombie.

As for Spell Stitched proponents, there's no actual stitching involved in the creation of a spellstitched undead. Spellstitched undead are detectable by the presence of runes tattooed to their skin or carved into their bones.

[Grey Watcher]

Well, except for the ones going through where her hair used to be, the stitches line up with the injuries she had when she died in 648 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html).

Also, in 642d, Crystal kills Grubwiggler, which leads me to suspect that Crystal is not a flesh golem. I'm not sure what kind, but I think she's undead, reanimated by the local Church of Loki.

[Grey Watcher]

She was brought back to life by Jim Henson. Her creature type is the Dark Crystal.

Ouch. I dunno whether to give you a pat on the back or a slap of the face for that one. :smallwink:

[Particle_Man]

Another thought - could this be another of Hel's manipulations? Are Durkula and Crystalstein going to be forming up another "Linear Guild" equivalent? The "Dead End Society" perhaps?

[Peelee]

I find it quite a bit weird and unsettling the this new Crystal-thing doesn't look anything like Crystal, and doesn't wear the same clothes, have a feminine body shape, hair, jewelry or even a single identifying feature.

Crystal's old buzzed hairline can be seen on the body. So there's that identifying feature. If there had been no confirmation in this strip, it would have been guessed and gained a significant amount of support already based on that alone, I'd wager

[137beth]

I think the best part of this Crystal reveal is that it doesn't actually answer the question of who the green person was. It could be the golem maker, or Bozzok, or someone else entirely. There's still a mystery for at least one more strip...

[Zmeoaice]

I think the best part of this Crystal reveal is that it doesn't actually answer the question of who the green person was. It could be the golem maker, or Bozzok, or someone else entirely. There's still a mystery for at least one more strip...

Yeah, I'm sure this pretty much confirms it's Bozzok

[Mr_Scruffy_Kilz]

Without reading through the entire thread, I decided to throw out my own weird idea.

Linear Guild reborn... almost literally, as all but one members is Undead... Nale has taken it to the next level, since one of the main issues was the Order is all living members (except one now), so all the members of the Linear Guild need to be undead except the cleric... Here is the line up as I see it:

Revenant Nale vs Living Elan
Wight Crystal vs Living Haley
Living Helgya vs Undead Dukula
Ghast Miko Miyazaki vs Living Belkar
Mummy Zz'drti vs Living Vaarsuvius
Hunefer Thog vs Living Roy
Skeleton Black Dragon of the Wooden Forest vs Living Blackwing
Spectral Windstriker vs Living Bloodfeast The Extreme-inator and Living Mr. Scruffy

Sabine can't be Haley's nemesis anymore, she hates Tarquin too much, and Crystal's reappearance helps drive that fact home. This would be the IFCC's new Linear Guild.

[SoC175]

There are also pictures of a Mohrg with some skin left. It's not about how much flesh and skin might be left, but about the lack of the grotesquely oversized intestines-tongue that is trademark of mohrges.

Is this the way in which the Giant tell us questionable actions may always come back to bite the characters in their asses (in this case, Haley assassinating Crystal on cold blood)?Then why hasn't Crystal, an unrepentant murderess who would have continued to merely murder innocents at the behest of the thieves guild been haunted by dozends of undead victims seeking revenge?

Ghast Miko Miyazaki vs Living Belkar Ghast Miko? Did she show any cannibalistic tendencies I missed?

Hunefer ThogHe ascended to demigodhood before his dead?

[Particle_Man]

Revenant Nale vs Living Elan.

A Revenant Nale would be obsessively going after his killer, Tarquin, rather than Elan.

[AmewTheFox]

A Revenant Nale would be obsessively going after his killer, Tarquin, rather than Elan.

That, and the fact that Nale returning, ever, is impossible.

[Stella]

Hardly. Crystal was going to be trying to kill Haley no matter what, and there's a good chance that the Guild would be after her, no matter what. Haley's only "mistake" was assuming that the Guild would have had Crystal raised from the dead, which would have been enough to slow their revenge down long enough to get out of their likely reach. In other words, she plainly overestimated the level of loyalty within the Guild, and underestimated Bozzok's ruthlessness.

Haley made no such mistake. She was well aware that Bozzok might resurrect Crystal, and how ruthless Bozzok could be and exactly what he was capable of contemplating.


IF Bozzok raises you, tell him the deal is off. I'm not paying him one copper piece ever again. NOT ONE. And I'll kill anyone he sends after me.

Followed by a postmortem "especially you (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html)."

Also, concerning the speculation about this or that template and this or that obscure undead type, remember that the Giant has said that he is well aware that not all of his readers even play D&D, and that even those who do might be casual players. I'd be cautious about assuming that Crystal is some kind of obscure templated horror which exists only in some splat book which even the majority of D&D players might never have heard of. Golems, Mummies, these are things which even non-PNPRPG players might have heard of via common mythology. Stitched template or undead with unpronounceable names (I've been playing D&D since ~1980 and I have no idea what a Morhg is...)? Not so much.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, except for the ones going through where her hair used to be, the stitches line up with the injuries she had when she died in 648 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html).

Also, in 642d, Crystal kills Grubwiggler, which leads me to suspect that Crystal is not a flesh golem. I'm not sure what kind, but I think she's undead, reanimated by the local Church of Loki.

The Church of Loki is a good idea for who brought her back.

[UristMcRandom]

I find it quite a bit weird and unsettling the this new Crystal-thing doesn't look anything like Crystal, and doesn't wear the same clothes, have a feminine body shape, hair, jewelry or even a single identifying feature.

She does have a feminine body shape, it's just not screamingly obvious.

As for the new outfit, I'd say that's part of the Giant's (long-overdue) feminism-friendliness update to the comic. Between Haley and Crystal's new outfits, and the artwork on the "Desert Attack Haley Starshine" box, he seems to be avoiding the depiction of cleavage (which I'm not opposed to), which Crystal's old outfit showed plenty of.

Jewelry was taken and sold by Haley when she killed Crystal. (Don't have the link, sorry)

And the hair? See the other replies.

[Lrbearclaw]

Looking a bit further, it appears that the Revenant I found is from the City of the Spider Queen Forgotten Realms supplement. And, therefore, no I am not linking the Stat Block I found. :smalltongue:

So, yes. Does seem to fit nicely. So far at any rate. Only oddity is the speech balloon. But I'm sure it'll be explained soon enuf.

"Monsters of Faerûn" is where they are from originally in 3.5. This is the list of basic info on them:

Special Attacks:
Vengeful Strike - Any attack on their killer gains an additional d10
Paralyzing Glare - First time confronting killer, they make a Will save or are paralyzed for 2d4 rounds.

Special Qualities:
DR 5/+1
Turning Immunity
Regeneration of +3 on everything but fire
Immunity to cold, gas, acid, electricity, polymorph, and mind-influencing attacks.
"Find the guilty" (which was explained before)

Ability Score increases of +4 STR and +2 CHA and have a CR of +1 of the creature/character's base CR.


Yup, it fits. So... it ships.

[kierthos]

Okay, yes, Crystal is probably now not some obscure creature out of a random sourcebook. While Sire Burlew has used odd creatures before (let's face it, the flumph is not the most well known creature), he's usually lampshaded his using it. Acid-breathing shark, anyone? Or Redcloak's rant about sourcebooks?

That being said, I still consider it more likely than not that Crystal is some form of undead. Creating a golem is expensive, and without going into spoilers, there are other reasons that is unlikely. Whereas Create Undead is relatively cheap.

If Crystal is undead, she (it) is clearly a type that does not freak out about sunlight, obviously is corporeal, and again, judging by the distance Elan got bounced, has a strength bonus (and probably a slam attack). We could also assume that it's a not a mindless undead (also Crystal wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, mindless undead don't talk much).

[Kingault]

Wait, was Haley's breaking the deal a bonus strip or a regular strip that I missed? Also, when in the timeline kill the golem maker guy? I know that the bonus strips are only in the books, but I can't even find summaries of what plot they have, if any. All I remember hearing about is the golem guy getting killed and something between Sabine and Nale.

Anyone? I would really appreciate a response.

[kierthos]

Anyone? I would really appreciate a response.
Haley breaking the deal was strip #648. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html)

The other thing was bonus content in the book.

[Emperordaniel]

I find it quite a bit weird and unsettling the this new Crystal-thing doesn't look anything like Crystal, and doesn't wear the same clothes, have a feminine body shape, hair, jewelry or even a single identifying feature.

She does have the rounded lower end typical of female characters in Stick-verse...

[Doug Lampert]

While I wouldn't say it's a dead certainty that Crystal is a golem over undead, I think there's a pretty strong case for it in story. Firstly, Bozzok, while he's a man of great resources, has shown no access to undead minions up to this point. If he had any wizards or sorcerors strong enough to create them, he would have used them against Haley in their last dust-up, and it seems the only clerics he has in his pocket are those of Loki, who don't strike me as undead-makers (as it is reasonable to assume the only god in the Northern pantheon who approves of that is Hel).

And just possibly her daddy and closest ally who would be, who was that again? Oh yeah, Loki.

Loki clerics being strongly anti-undead is very unlikely in a universe that gives Hel undead and that follows ANYTHING about the (non-D&D) source material for the pantheon.

And evil clerics making undead is a standard sort of thing.

[Peelee]

Anyone? I would really appreciate a response.

For a summary, it was the scene of them rescuing Roy's corpse added in as bonus content to that book (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0645.html). They go in, get Roy's corpse, and killed Grubwiggler.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

She does have the rounded lower end typical of female characters in Stick-verse...

Also, undead frequently look very different from their original forms. Xykon and golem Roy are two examples of this.

[Breccia]

And now, fighting by proxy, two of the most iconic literary figures of all time: Robin Hood vs. Frankenstein's Monster. Taking all bets NOT YOURS HALEY.

(oh what, you think the wands mean it's more like Green Arrow? Nah, those wands won't do a damn thing against a flesh golem)

[foobar1969]

Revenant Nale

Nale returning, ever, is impossible.
Impossible? Bah! This is a 3.5e world. Nale was killed, disintegrated to dust, and scattered to the desert wind. Reversing that would take a pair of 7th level spells: limited wish to collect the dust, then resurrection. A 13th level party could manage that.

Nevertheless, "Revenant Nale" is unlikely. Recreating his corpse would require a full wish or miracle. If you have a top-tier caster for a 9th level spell, true resurrection is a much better option.

Edit: Crystal is probably a revenant, for the reasons given by Stella.

[Lurkmoar]

Okay, I'm surprised by Crystal coming back as undead. Hope this doesn't mean that Bozzok is around.

[hagnat]

i didnt noticed if they featured in other comics, but the ear shadow was a surprise for me :)

[kierthos]

Okay, I'm surprised by Crystal coming back as undead. Hope this doesn't mean that Bozzok is around.
Given that the previous comic had a green person glaring at Haley through a peephole, I think it's fairly likely he's around.

[cybishop]

...
What if reality is starting to break down a little because of the Snarl starting to be released? after all, unraveling the threads of the world of how things work ought to do more than just destroy, but also wreak havoc with the rules of things as well. like people coming back from the dead for no reason.

and that this is just the first sign?

Just saying.

*Relurks*

Very interesting theory. And it has the benefit of explaining why she doesn't quite match any of the undead or undead-like creatures seen so far, as people have been arguing about in here. Even if she isn't directly raised by the Snarl, the Snarl could be why the details don't fit. Two analogies come to mind.

"Bubbles of evil" in the Wheel of Time. For those who haven't read it, the Dark One, a Satan-like figure, is about to burst free and try to destroy the world. As the Dark One's power grows, he can alter reality itself in limited ways. In addition to the Dark One's actual minions, everyone in the world is threatened by apparently random malicious supernatural events, like weapons coming to life or an entire village turning murderous every night. In RPG terms, you might call them the result of a very, very diverse random encounters table.

Superboy-Prime. In the DC Universe, leading up to the crossover called "Infinite Crisis," an alternate reality version of Superman called Superboy-Prime was imprisoned in a pocket dimension. Superboy-Prime went crazy and was far more powerful than Superman as we know him, strong enough to literally punch through the walls of reality. That resulted in changing history in several ways, including raising at least one dead character.

Given that the Snarl is literally a giant, malevolent plot hole, something like those would be very plausible here.

That being said, I don't actually think it's likely based on this one page. There's a much simpler explanation for the weird stuff here. Maybe she's a revenant, or some other kind of undead that hasn't been seen on-panel yet. Any differences between the description of that undead and what we're seeing here can easily be explained away, either with a joke (she's now a vampire, but it's Crystal, so she's a really, really dumb vampire!), or with circumstances we don't know about. (Maybe there's something magical about the dagger she was killed with, maybe she's not a strong type of undead but is wearing a Belt of Giant Strength...) Same for if she's some kind of undead we HAVE seen in the comic before. I'd agree that the Snarl being involved is plausible and would be an interesting direction for the story to go from here, but this page isn't sufficient evidence.

[Burner28]

Well, that was unexpected to say the least.

[Xelbiuj]

I liked that Elan got punched mid genre savvy sentence, that's pretty much how I feel about the whole subject now. The last book left me incredibly jaded on it. Way overplayed.
*POW!*

Anyways, hopefully the order will blast through them and finish them for good, honestly the Thieves Guild isn't really a credible threat at this point, unless they catch OOTS off guard, in a new city, and kidnap Haley/Elan alone, again. /sigh

I know Rich has deep messages in this comic but honestly, the whole this is basically like a taking Full Measures PSA at this point. Makes a good argument for killing everyone and anyone in your way plus anyone that could possibly at any point thinking about avenging them.

Also, a preemptive "who cares?" to the higher-than-thou "you lied to Elan and actually murdered Crystal!" bleeding hearts.

[hamishspence]

Haley's already admitted to Elan that she killed Crystal - his primary concern was "Did she deserve it".

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html

[Adaon Nightwind]

Honestly, at this point, i should stop being surprised all the time. Surprisingly, i'm not.

And i hope it will happen again. Poor Haley :(

[Scarlet Knight]

YAY, THOG RETURNS TO... wait, what?

Of course; we want Thog, we get Crystal.

[kierthos]

of course; we want thog, we get crystal.
Thog sad. Thog pawn in game of life.