PDA

View Full Version : DM Help The 'when' of adressing a problem player



Terrorvein
2014-12-28, 08:18 AM
Hello playground,

I’ve been the DM for my group of friends for about a year and a half now, but I’ve wanted to get some time in on the other side of the screen. To this end I have recently started a new D&D group with my brother and a few other friends. My brother DMs this group, but since I have an account here and he is insanely busy right now (and since I’ve been dragged into solving this anyway), he has asked me to come to the playground for advice.

The situation is rather simple we have somewhat of a problem player. This player doesn’t engage in the game at all. She would at first spend the entire session texting on her phone, so my brother banned phones at the gaming table. Even without her phones she doesn’t pay attention and rarely, if ever, engages in what is going on. If her initiative comes up she rolls 'a' dice before even announcing what she’s doing to do (when I say 'a' dice I really do mean she picks up a random dice and rolls it). It makes it extremely difficult for everyone else to get into the game. And everyone in the group has at some point remarked that they find this behavior annoying.

We understand that this is an OOC problem that has to be addressed OOC. Since my brother has a tendency to get confrontational is these situations, he’s asked me to help him do the actual talking.

The actual question I want to ask you all is: is it better to address this kind of issue before a session risking the player in question being angry throughout that session or after the session risking one of the other players losing their cool and ...uhm... addressing the problem during the session in a way that could be very damaging to OOC relations?

It’s very difficult to actually get together outside of planned session moments so that isn’t really an option.

TL/DR: player doesn’t engage. Address this issue right before or right after a session?

Angelmaker
2014-12-28, 08:25 AM
Why not outside of the session? Before and after a session has both kind of a time constraint.

Had a similiar problem player. She was always tired and we always had to tell her what dice to roll. I went over to her place outside of the game and we talked about the issue. Turned out the current game system was just too complex for her.

We switched over the system to D&D 4th and with the power cards she had less trouble keeping track of ehat to do. She also got a bit more spot time for herself apart from combat.

I think the key is really to catch her outside of the game time as there will be no pressur to hasten the discussion in any way.

Altair_the_Vexed
2014-12-28, 08:28 AM
I'd suggest you discuss the issue separately from the gaming session, altogether.

Waiting for a player to show up and then telling her the way they play isn't fun for everyone is a bit like telling her she's not welcome. At the very least, I think it'd be better if the player has some time to think about how she behaves before coming to the game.

Dycize
2014-12-28, 08:33 AM
I read "she" and "very damaging to OOC relations".
Brother's girlfriend?
It just looks like that player doesn't have any interest in the game. Ask them if they have fun. It's a sneakier way of asking "do you really want to play?" without being as confrontational.
Doing it at the table is an easy way to ruin the session itself. But there's no magic here, at the table or not, hurt feelings are hurt feelings.
Everyone at the table has an issue with the player not caring about the game... Enough to not correct their behavior too.

So as said above, do it outside the table and try to see what's wrong.

Terrorvein
2014-12-28, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the responses so far


Why not outside of the session? Before and after a session has both kind of a time constraint.

I'd suggest you discuss the issue separately from the gaming session, altogether.
Waiting for a player to show up and then telling her the way they play isn't fun for everyone is a bit like telling her she's not welcome. At the very least, I think it'd be better if the player has some time to think about how she behaves before coming to the game.
Addressing it outside of a gaming session is difficult because most of us have very little to no chance (short of not going to work/school) to meet outside of gaming before our next session.


Had a similiar problem player. She was always tired and we always had to tell her what dice to roll. I went over to her place outside of the game and we talked about the issue. Turned out the current game system was just too complex for her.
We switched over the system to D&D 4th and with the power cards she had less trouble keeping track of ehat to do. She also got a bit more spot time for herself apart from combat.
I think the key is really to catch her outside of the game time as there will be no pressur to hasten the discussion in any way.
I actually never considered that maybe the system might be too complex. Thanks for pointing that out.

I read "she" and "very damaging to OOC relations".
Brother's girlfriend?
It just looks like that player doesn't have any interest in the game. Ask them if they have fun. It's a sneakier way of asking "do you really want to play?" without being as confrontational.
Doing it at the table is an easy way to ruin the session itself. But there's no magic here, at the table or not, hurt feelings are hurt feelings.
Everyone at the table has an issue with the player not caring about the game... Enough to not correct their behavior too.
So as said above, do it outside the table and try to see what's wrong.

No, she’s no one’s girlfriend, just a good friend to all of us. It’s just that I’ve seen enough friendships go down the drain over silly things.

Also, the other players are (and I say this with a lot of affection) two huge sissies, who are afraid to drive her away by saying the wrong thing.

Anyway, you all do make a very good point when you say it should be dealt with outside of the session. I’ll try and give her a call later and see if we can have a chat sometime before the next session.

Thank you all for the help :)

Kiero
2014-12-28, 11:39 AM
Don't do this just before a session, which would make a wasted trip and possibly soured atmosphere.

Outside of the game, ask this player why she even bothers turning up, since she clearly isn't there for the game. Assuming this group of people have other instances where they get together to socialise, suggest she prioritises those, and doesn't come to the game any more.

This isn't someone who finds the game "too complex" or the like, but someone who doesn't actually want to play the game. Their presence is a drag on everyone else's enjoyment, and I can't imagine she's having too much fun herself. So spare everyone the trouble and show her the door.

jedipotter
2014-12-28, 01:12 PM
player doesn’t engage. Address this issue right before or right after a session?

Well, if it is utterly impossible for the two of you to meet any time other then at the game itself (and if that is really true, you might want to think about that...sounds like a complicated life if you can't take a couple minutes to meet someone):

Then before the game is the way to go.

If it was not so impossible, I'd say ''ask her to come over early''.

Knaight
2014-12-28, 01:58 PM
You don't have a problem player. You have a spectator who you tell to do things to occasionally. So, ask if she is enjoying the game, in such a way that it's clear that spectating and just hanging out works a lot better than being a player, but still spectating and just hanging out.

Gavran
2014-12-28, 02:22 PM
Personally I feel like a phone call or even an email isn't necessarily a bad way to handle this. A nice face chat is definitely not a bad thing, but I feel like the content is more important than the method. As long as you come across as "Hey, are you having fun? How can we make this more fun for you (even if that means just hanging out but not really playing)?" instead of "We don't want you there." I also feel like outright stating "I don't want to come across as if we don't want you there, because we do, but we want you to be having fun too." is okay.

Themrys
2014-12-28, 03:44 PM
The situation is rather simple we have somewhat of a problem player. This player doesn’t engage in the game at all. She would at first spend the entire session texting on her phone, so my brother banned phones at the gaming table. Even without her phones she doesn’t pay attention and rarely, if ever, engages in what is going on. If her initiative comes up she rolls 'a' dice before even announcing what she’s doing to do (when I say 'a' dice I really do mean she picks up a random dice and rolls it). It makes it extremely difficult for everyone else to get into the game. And everyone in the group has at some point remarked that they find this behavior annoying.

Maybe she's bored and doesn't want to say it, for exactly the same reason your brother doesn't know what to do?

How much is her character involved in the usual plotlines? I don't know how that group plays, but texting on the phone and similar stuff is something I usually observe when there is a plotline that excludes one or more players. (Say, the group is doing something immoral behind the paladin's back, or even just two characters having a long conversation.)

Not knowing whether to roll a D20 or D6 or whatever is something that often happens to people who are new to a game. Maybe just assign her a standard attack that always works the same, and suggest that she do that whenever a fight comes up? She seems to not really care, so I guess she'll agree to do that. That way, there is no time wasted, and when she notices that she could optimize her fighting style, she'll have a motivation to learn which dice to use.


I would ask her directly at the table whether she's having fun or not, as if you do it via e-mail it inevitably looks like it's a big deal. Of course, they have waited so long that now it IS a big deal, but if you have one of the players ask (if the GM does it, she'll know she's a problem player), they could successfully make it seem like they noticed just now that she isn't paying attention and therefore might be bored.

Also, do it at the start of the game. Hurting someone's feelings makes them feel bad, which causes them to avoid the situation in which they felt bad, which in that case might be the gaming group. Addressing the problem via e-mail or at the end of the game is risky. Better make a short remark at the start, then try and make the game as interesting and fun for her as possible, so that by the end of ghe gaming session, she will feel welcome and happy, and want to return.

(As for just phrasing it as "We want you to have fun, too" - it depends on what kind of person she is. If she is very sensitive, she might notice that there is some underlying frustration, in which case the e-mail method bears the aforementioned risks)

Gavran
2014-12-28, 03:58 PM
Just as an aside I'll note that when I say "I feel it'd be fine" I really mean "If I were the recipient, it would be fine." I meant to include a disclaimer in my post that if someone who is generally more socially adept feels it's best to not have that kind of conversation over email or even phones, I am in no way arguing against them.

Kiero
2014-12-28, 05:37 PM
Personally I feel like a phone call or even an email isn't necessarily a bad way to handle this. A nice face chat is definitely not a bad thing, but I feel like the content is more important than the method. As long as you come across as "Hey, are you having fun? How can we make this more fun for you (even if that means just hanging out but not really playing)?" instead of "We don't want you there." I also feel like outright stating "I don't want to come across as if we don't want you there, because we do, but we want you to be having fun too." is okay.

It's not just about the disengaged player, though. Yes, it's useful to find out if there's something that can be done to improve her experience, and thus increase engagement. But there's another side to it to; her disinterest is actively un-fun for everyone else. So if a resolution can't be found for that, she has to go.

Honest Tiefling
2014-12-30, 09:45 PM
Don't do this just before a session, which would make a wasted trip and possibly soured atmosphere.

+1 here. I just don't suggest doing it afterwards, either. People can get tired or into the characters they play or have other obligations. I suggest arranging a chat. Some might hate me for this, but I think e-mail or IM might do well if you believe she is more comfortable in these mediums. A face to face might seem 'official' instead of causal. A lot of people also suck at talking and writing helps them. But, that is HIGHLY dependent on the type of person they are, and in most cases, face to face seems more honest to people.

And quickly arrange to do something fun she enjoys. Just because you don't play well together doesn't mean you don't want to spend time with her.