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nonsi
2014-12-28, 11:27 AM
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For a long time now, I wanted candle spellcasting to have an expression in the game rules.
Since I'm not a subscriber to the concept of PrCs, using the TaB Candle Caster PrC is not an option, so I've been trying to find the right feats to make it happen.


The following two feats are what I have so far.......




Candle Magic [General]
Benefits: A candle caster can store spells in candles (usually about 6" long).
Each candle holds one spell, following the rules given for the core Scribe Scroll feat, using an alternative medium (see page 84 of the Player’s Handbook).
A candle normally illuminates a 5'-radius.
A burning candle cannot be extinguished by blowing air upon it, unless the candle caster does it herself while holding it (although dispel magic still suppresses the effect as it would for any other magic item), but completely covering the wick by stepping on it or pinching it as a standard action will snuff out the flame.

A Spell Candle's color is determined by the school to which the spell effect it carries belongs to:


School Candle Color
============================
Abjuration: Blue
Conjuration: Yellow
Divination: Green
Enchantment: Brown
Evocation: Red
Illusion: Purple
Necromancy: Black
Transmutation: Orange
Universal: Grey



There are basically 2 ways of activating the spell trapped in a candle:
1. Casting it normally: Casting the spell normally, drawing the magical powers from the candle. The activation's energies light the candle.
2. Lighting the candle manually: A spell candle that's lit manually activates at the beginning of the candle caster’s action in the next round (which does not draw an AoO), but for all intents and purposes functions as a spell of one SL higher than its actual SL, and the caster's CL also counts as +1 to her actual CL. The best way of lighting a spell candle is by using a tindertwig. Doing so is a standard action, which is subject to disruption just as casting a spell would be. Lighting the candle by a slower method, such as flint and tinder or even a magnifying glass, is a full-round action under the best of circumstances, and definitely provokes an AoO. A candle caster can “light defensively” by making a successful Concentration check (DC 15). This preempts an attack of opportunity, but if she fails the check she does not light the candle.

In both cases, the caster doesn't lose a spell, since the spell's energy is already supplied by the candle.

Candle Effect: A successfully lit candle automatically activates the stored spell. It works exactly like a spell cast the normal way. The flame of the burning candle mimics the triggered spell’s duration. Thus, an instantaneous spell causes the candle to flare and burn out immediately, while a candle scribed with a spell having a longer duration burns for that length of time. However, if the flame is extinguished before the spell expires, the spell’s duration is cut short.
Special: If a candle holds an effect with Duration: Concentration, then the candle serves as Concentration focus and burns out after 10 rounds. This means that the person who lit the candle needs not concentrate to maintain the spell effect. So long as the candle burns, the spell effect persists.

Identifying a Candle: A spell candle may be identified by another candle caster with a successful Spellcraft check vs. DC [15 + SL] (a spell candle is covered with occult symbols & runes which reveal its secrets to those who know how to read them). Anyone who successfully identifies the spell candle may use it as if s/he was the caster that had made it, with both activation modes available. Others may only use the second activation mode, but they don't gain the benefit of increased SL & DC, and are bound by the following restriction: the effect either targets you or fizzles (an option rarely used – read on). When creating a candle with an effect that's not tagged harmless, the caster may dictate that if not directed properly, the spell fizzles. This guarantees that misuse will not backfire at the person who lit the candle.




Metamagic Spell Candle [General]
Requirements: Candle Magic, any two metamagic feats of +1 modifier and +2 modifier.
Benefits: You may now create spell candles to carry metamagic-augmented effects. In such cases, the spell candle is a 2-sided candle – the bottom side being about 1/2 the length of the top side.
If the metamagic SL modifier is +1, the bottom side's color is White.
If the metamagic SL modifier is +2, the bottom side's color is Silver.
If the metamagic SL modifier is +4, the bottom side's color is Gold.
Higher SL modifiers and +3 modifier are expressed as spiral combinations of the above – to an absolute maximum of +7 metamagic modifier (if such thing even exists).
When a Metamagic Spell Candle is used according to the second activation mode, it is activated by first lighting the bottom side, then lighting the top side. The person who lights the Metamagic Spell Candle has the option of attempting to light both sides (2 separate checks) as a 1-round action, by rendering himself "unable to properly defend yourself". If the bottom side is not lit first, or lit more than 5 rounds before the top side is lit, the metamagic addition is wasted. Otherwise it is immediately consumed the instant the top side is lit.
Activating a Metamagic Spell Candle according to the first activation mode triggers the effect as if cast normally.
Special: What ever the spell effect is, its augmented SL may not exceed the maximum SL available to the caster.
Special: A given Metamagic Spell Candle may only hold a single metamagic.
Note: Notice that some metamagic effects are irrelevant when manually lighting a Metamagic Spell Candle (e.g. Silent Spell, Still Spell etc.)

nonsi
2015-01-03, 12:22 AM
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This is curious. 6 days and 95 viewers, but nothing but absolute silence.

More than disappointed, I'm surprised.
While candle magic is not a primary motif in fantasy, it certainly has its place in folklore. I was expecting people to be at least partially intrigued by the idea.

I wonder if it's "candle magic" as a discussion topic or the implementation that drove people off (or is it that 5e is slowly but surely killing 3.Xe homebewing).

Iwhowrite
2015-01-03, 01:27 AM
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This is curious. 6 days and 95 viewers, but nothing but absolute silence.

More than disappointed, I'm surprised.
While candle magic is not a primary motif in fantasy, it certainly has its place in folklore. I was expecting people to be at least partially intrigued by the idea.

I wonder if it's "candle magic" as a discussion topic or the implementation that drove people off (or is it that 5e is slowly but surely killing 3.Xe homebewing).

Nope I'm interested :smallbiggrin:, personal I was looking into ways to create knot magic.

Also I', a occult folklore fanatic so this was a pleasant surprise to see.

Right now I am trying to make a system based around the rp and so much the mechanics. These would just be guidelines and the caps used to prevent silliness from ensuing when rping.

Anyway, the main reason why you probable haven't had a response before this is because ever one looks at this will think Scribe Scroll is better even if it just replaces the paper. From a players perspective its just not as useful since you have to "light" which can cause all sorts of issues. Now you could argue reading aloud the scroll is just as detrimental so you really are just trading at how it inconvinces you.

My suggestion would perhaps add something to the mechanic that makes it more useful in one way compared to a scroll then give something to the scribe scroll feat that makes it better in another way.

Almarck
2015-01-03, 03:33 AM
I make up 1/10th of that statistic, because I actually keep clicking on your thread by accident/plan to read but end up forgetting to read.

I like the alternative of alternate mediums of casting magic. Sometimes, I just want to have Fruit of Healing instead of potions, right?

What I want to know is, what is the major point of candle casting as a opposed to say scroll casting? I take it that you need a lighting check instead of a UMD check. I also imagine color coding helps make spells easier to identify.

nonsi
2015-01-03, 07:18 AM
Anyway, the main reason why you probable haven't had a response before this is because ever one looks at this will think Scribe Scroll is better even if it just replaces the paper.


Scrolls are better on the part of the finders/users (copying spells to your spellbook), not those who make them.





From a players perspective its just not as useful since you have to "light" which can cause all sorts of issues.


When using method #1, you don't need to manually light the candle. It ignites on its own as you cast the spell.





My suggestion would perhaps add something to the mechanic that makes it more useful in one way compared to a scroll then give something to the scribe scroll feat that makes it better in another way.


Lighting the candle manually either grants an increased potency or can be done by anyone.
The reason "Unfettered Candle" is not dissolved into option #2, is because noncasters are not trained in directing magical effects, so the only possible target is yourself.



I momentarily considered the option of Metamagic Spell Candle not modifying the SL of the effect, but this could end up insanely broken, so I dropped the idea.
Btw, AFAIK metamagic is not an option with scrolls.



@Almarck: I hope the above answers your question as well.
Also, I already specified how lighting a spell candle works (method #2). And yes, UMD is not involved.
And the color coding stuff is mainly fluff. (Edit: you know the school, but beyond that you need a regular Spellcraft check)

Iwhowrite
2015-01-03, 10:56 AM
Scrolls are better on the part of the finders/users (copying spells to your spellbook), not those who make them.

That could be the special thing, anyone can use but there is no way to learn the spell.



When using method #1, you don't need to manually light the candle. It ignites on its own as you cast the spell.
I didn't know that since you refer to the person as being the caster, so either you change the word to character for the parts where any one can do it. Or you need to make a speacil note at the bottom detailing what kind of player kind use what part (aka spell casters verse non).



Lighting the candle manually either grants an increased potency or can be done by anyone.
The reason "Unfettered Candle" is not dissolved into option #2, is because noncasters are not trained in directing magical effects, so the only possible target is yourself.
That makes sense, though I wasn't sure of it at frist myself. I would suggest making the description two sided. What the caster and/or creater can do /// then what everyone else can do. Just so its easier to read for everyone and would prevent any confusion. (or its just me being very tired atm) :smallsigh:



I momentarily considered the option of Metamagic Spell Candle not modifying the SL of the effect, but this could end up insanely broken, so I dropped the idea.
Btw, AFAIK metamagic is not an option with scrolls.
That's easy to fix you can only apply a number of levels of meta magic equal to half the spell level rounded down (minimum one for one, 0 for 0). I can think this causing issues, you could even go a step further and say only one meat feat can be used due to the power having to be persered as the wax itself and thus is impossible to add more than one without it fizzling.





@Almarck: I hope the above answers your question as well.
Also, I already specified how lighting a spell candle works (method #2). And yes, UMD is not involved.
And the color coding stuff is mainly fluff. (Edit: you know the school, but beyond that you need a regular Spellcraft check)

I like the fluff, though I would add in alternate rules as to how one can decipher them. You can go by runes, have the candles always lit and only can be activated by blowing out the flame intently (and each flames colors would be what told what lied within), ect ...

Eldan
2015-01-03, 04:38 PM
It just doesn't seem to do much new, if I may be brutally honest. It's nice and flavourful, certainly, but there isn't much in the rules that a simple refluff of Scribe Scroll couldn't achieve. The higher spell level is nice, but I don't quite see the connection to the fluff, honestly. CL is probably quite powerful with things like Blasphemy.

How about extending the duration of spells that have it? When I think of candles as opposed to scrolls, I think that they burn longer. How about free extend spell, instead of higher spell level?

Or perhaps a candle could hold concentration for a caster?

Something like this.

Focus Candle

Requirements: Candle magic, ability to cast first level spells.
Benefits: when casting a spell with duration: concentration from a candle, you may put the focus in the candle instead. You need not concentrate, but instead, you have to hold the candle in your hand. Setting it down, being disarmed or otherwise losing the candle ends the spell's duration.

nonsi
2015-01-04, 07:04 AM
I didn't know that since you refer to the person as being the caster, so either you change the word to character for the parts where any one can do it. Or you need to make a speacil note at the bottom detailing what kind of player kind use what part (aka spell casters verse non).


Ok, I think I see the source of the confusion.
Identify the Candle should say that if you make the Spellcraft check, then you may use a spell candle as if you're the one who created it, and if you don't, then the effect either targets you or fizzles (if the effect is not tagged harmless (or not - maker's choice :sinistergrin:)). This seems better to me than the Unfettered Candle separation.





That's easy to fix you can only apply a number of levels of meta magic equal to half the spell level rounded down (minimum one for one, 0 for 0). I can think this causing issues, you could even go a step further and say only one meat feat can be used due to the power having to be persered as the wax itself and thus is impossible to add more than one without it fizzling.


If the modified level is within the caster's scope of SL availability, then I don't see why this restriction would be justified.
If the modified level is beyond the caster's scope of SL availability, then you achieve the exact opposite - you allow higher metamagic to the already more powerful effects, so you're not really restricting anything.





I like the fluff, though I would add in alternate rules as to how one can decipher them. You can go by runes,


It's definitely gonna be tied to runes or other symbols/text inscribed on the candle.





have the candles always lit and only can be activated by blowing out the flame intently


Wouldn't this pose a double negative, as in you have to first light it, then blow on it (meaning an overall higher action payment), then you can't end a non-dismissable effect by snuffing out the flame as currently suggested?





(and each flames colors would be what told what lied within)


I'd much prefer to know what the effect is before I use a candle. Knowing what the effect is in retrospect would probably not help me much.











The higher spell level is nice, but I don't quite see the connection to the fluff, honestly. CL is probably quite powerful with things like Blasphemy.


The idea is that if you know how to best use the candle, then the only reason you'd bother to manually light it (paying the action cost and gambling success) is if it had an upside to regular casting.
I took the idea from the Candle Caster PrC, which grants a +3 CL increase (which is obviously unbalanced).





How about extending the duration of spells that have it? When I think of candles as opposed to scrolls, I think that they burn longer. How about free extend spell, instead of higher spell level?


Extend Spell is but one of many metamagic effects.
Why would I want to limit myself to just that one?





Or perhaps a candle could hold concentration for a caster?


Now this shows promise.





Something like this.

Focus Candle

Requirements: Candle magic, ability to cast first level spells.
Benefits: when casting a spell with duration: concentration from a candle, you may put the focus in the candle instead. You need not concentrate, but instead, you have to hold the candle in your hand. Setting it down, being disarmed or otherwise losing the candle ends the spell's duration.


Now that the idea came up, I'm considering making it automatic without the need for another feat investment.
I'd also alleviate the "You have to hold the candle" restriction to apply only for personal effects, while in case of effects that target someone else, you may put down the candle and go about your business (and let the target break a sweat about chasing the candle to end the effect).

nonsi
2015-01-06, 11:05 AM
Ok people, I've clarified and improved things.
See if it is now clearer and more attractive.