Attaining Lichdom?

[AbyssStalker]

Anyone have any idea how you could become a lich in 5th edition, the closest thing to it appears to be magic jar, but that isn't quite what i'm looking for. Should I try homebrewing something? Perhaps a 9nth lvl necromancy ritual with massive component costs? Do I have to enforce an alignment change or should I have different variations of the spell with different ways of sustaining the lich so as to avoid the nasty soul stealing business?

[Daishain]

Pretty much all of that is up to you. They don't have hard rules on becoming a Lich for this edition as of yet.

-Canon would have the process be incredibly evil almost by definition, so the alignment change is definitely recommended.

-I would recommend a fairly elaborate ritual, probably with a not insignificant amount of sophont sacrifice.

-Maintaining the lich state is in this edition dependent on "feeding". I would not be opposed to having other sources of power available than souls, but would likely rule that souls are the most "potent" source available, with alternatives being considerably less convenient.

[Inevitability]

The DMG says the BoVD contains knowledge on how to become a lich. Getting your hands on it may be problematic, though.

[RedMage125]

The Book of Vile Darkness may contain the knowledge of lich apotheosis, but I don't think that should be the ONLY way.

Cultists of Orcus could likely have another ritual, but doing so through them likely creates a lich bound to Orcus' will.

If Vecna is a deity in your game, I would think that his most faithful followers or highest ranking clerics (or wizards) would have the knowledge as well.

On that note, any other deity of undeath may know the secrets and be willing to give them to a devout enough follower (not necessarily a cleric) as a reward.

Ultimately, it's up to the DM. Unlike 3.x, there's no need to specify the exact process (such as requires X feat, or specify the spells involved in the process). One could just say that it's a ritual, not a spell. You could just say that it requires the ability to cast 6th level spells or higher, and then leave the rest up to :follow the ritual's instructions". Pathfinder had some good notes on that, in that it required the prospective lich to discover his own process. The path to lichdom that worked for one lich may kill another. It also says that while one may start the process with good or even neutral intentions (perhaps just wanting more time to finish one's research), the path to lichdom invariably involves acts of heinous evil, such that the prospective lich usually looses track of his original reasons for doing it, consumed with paranoia and drive to accomplish his goal.

[AbyssStalker]

The Book of Vile Darkness may contain the knowledge of lich apotheosis, but I don't think that should be the ONLY way.

Cultists of Orcus could likely have another ritual, but doing so through them likely creates a lich bound to Orcus' will.

If Vecna is a deity in your game, I would think that his most faithful followers or highest ranking clerics (or wizards) would have the knowledge as well.

On that note, any other deity of undeath may know the secrets and be willing to give them to a devout enough follower (not necessarily a cleric) as a reward.

Ultimately, it's up to the DM. Unlike 3.x, there's no need to specify the exact process (such as requires X feat, or specify the spells involved in the process). One could just say that it's a ritual, not a spell. You could just say that it requires the ability to cast 6th level spells or higher, and then leave the rest up to :follow the ritual's instructions". Pathfinder had some good notes on that, in that it required the prospective lich to discover his own process. The path to lichdom that worked for one lich may kill another. It also says that while one may start the process with good or even neutral intentions (perhaps just wanting more time to finish one's research), the path to lichdom invariably involves acts of heinous evil, such that the prospective lich usually looses track of his original reasons for doing it, consumed with paranoia and drive to accomplish his goal.

Thanks to you and everybody else's ideas, I believe i'll take one of the one's RedMage here suggested. Awesome shout-out with your name as well.

[Slipperychicken]

Just go dig up one of the 2e rules for the "Ritual of Endless Night". Among other horrible things, it has requirements like: getting fresh blood from an angel, personally murdering at least one baby, getting some ludicrously-difficult reagents, drinking a specially-enchanted potion which kills you, and making a roll to reincarnate as a lich (if you fail, you simply remain dead). And you need to figure out the ritual first, which can be a quest in itself. If you succeed at becoming a lich, you're a monster under the DM's control.

But yeah, I think lichdom should involve several unforgivably-evil acts (like baby murder), be extremely difficult/harrowing, and also make you an NPC. That way you know that any lich in the world is not only supremely crafty, powerful, and lucky, but has also committed tremendous evil and been corrupted beyond redemption.

[Malifice]

Just go dig up one of the 2e rules for the "Ritual of Endless Night". Among other horrible things, it has requirements like: getting fresh blood from an angel, personally murdering at least one baby, getting some ludicrously-difficult reagents, drinking a specially-enchanted potion which kills you, and making a roll to reincarnate as a lich (if you fail, you simply remain dead). And you need to figure out the ritual first, which can be a quest in itself. If you succeed at becoming a lich, you're a monster under the DM's control.

But yeah, I think lichdom should involve several unforgivably-evil acts (like baby murder), be extremely difficult/harrowing, and also make you an NPC. That way you know that any lich in the world is not only supremely crafty, powerful, and lucky, but has also committed tremendous evil and been corrupted beyond redemption.

I played a lich in 3.5 once. Attained Lichdom as a 21 year old human Wizard.

[Inevitability]

I am almost entirely sure that becoming a lich involves trapping at least one soul in your phylactery, as 'first meal'.

[AbyssStalker]

Just go dig up one of the 2e rules for the "Ritual of Endless Night". Among other horrible things, it has requirements like: getting fresh blood from an angel, personally murdering at least one baby, getting some ludicrously-difficult reagents, drinking a specially-enchanted potion which kills you, and making a roll to reincarnate as a lich (if you fail, you simply remain dead). And you need to figure out the ritual first, which can be a quest in itself. If you succeed at becoming a lich, you're a monster under the DM's control.

But yeah, I think lichdom should involve several unforgivably-evil acts (like baby murder), be extremely difficult/harrowing, and also make you an NPC. That way you know that any lich in the world is not only supremely crafty, powerful, and lucky, but has also committed tremendous evil and been corrupted beyond redemption.

Think I can loop-hole murder requirements with true polymorph? Won't stop alot of the evil, but stopping some is better than none.

As per the conversion to NPC I agree, I plan to do that, but not immediately, I was thinking about going on for a small bit and making a nigh un-survivable gauntlet out of his lair. Then storm it (with the intent of killing him) as a plot-line for later characters

[rlc]

Think I can loop-hole murder requirements with true polymorph? Won't stop alot of the evil, but stopping some is better than none.
No. The murder is part of it.

[Totema]

Nonsi came up with a very elaborate lichdom ritual for 3.5 over on the homebrew board (here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387600-Becoming-a-Lich-!-(P-E-A-C-H))) that I liked so much that I came up with a nuts-and-bolts port for 5e that I plan on implementing for one of my own campaigns. I can post a link to my version if you'd like. :smallsmile:

[AbyssStalker]

Nonsi came up with a very elaborate lichdom ritual for 3.5 over on the homebrew board (here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387600-Becoming-a-Lich-!-(P-E-A-C-H))) that I liked so much that I came up with a nuts-and-bolts port for 5e that I plan on implementing for one of my own campaigns. I can post a link to my version if you'd like. :smallsmile:

Thanks for that link, it will come in handy, if you want to post your version that would be great if it isn't to much trouble for you.

[AbyssStalker]

I'm considering making a version of both lich and arch-lich, aside from a MUCH less morally bankrupt process in the becoming of an Arch-lich, I am considering that the phylactery must spend 7 days in hallowed ground (d6 less days if that hallowed ground is within 1 mile radius of your birthplace) to create a new body should your previous form be destroyed, otherwise your soul inhabits the phylactery until then, and is only able to communicate to others using telepathy in a 60 ft range. As well as certain steps having to be overseen by an angel or high priest of a good or neutral aligned god.

Otherwise you can entrust your phylactery to an angel to instate it as your guardian angel, and your phylactery is able to begin creating a new body as long as the angel has possession of your phylactery. (The angel is also notified of any morally dubious activities you commit while it has the phylactery or of an alignment change, and is able to destroy it should you appear to become corrupted or do something especially heinous.) Should the angel fail in protecting your phylactery (if it wasn't destroyed itself) it will attempt to track you down and notify you of it's destruction. Although I wouldn't count on an angel assisting in the ritual or protecting the phylactery unless it has complete trust in you.

[Vogonjeltz]

Think I can loop-hole murder requirements with true polymorph? Won't stop alot of the evil, but stopping some is better than none.

As per the conversion to NPC I agree, I plan to do that, but not immediately, I was thinking about going on for a small bit and making a nigh un-survivable gauntlet out of his lair. Then storm it (with the intent of killing him) as a plot-line for later characters

No, I don't think that would constitute a useful loop hole. The problem with the True Polymorph route is that you would still lack the defining feature of being a Lich (besides being an undead husk), a phylactery. Without that, you die and then don't revive.

[AbyssStalker]

No, I don't think that would constitute a useful loop hole. The problem with the True Polymorph route is that you would still lack the defining feature of being a Lich (besides being an undead husk), a phylactery. Without that, you die and then don't revive.

Oh, I had meant polymorphing something that wasn't sentient (or something very evil) into my victims, I mean killing a baby is still bad, but I figure if it was a mass murdering demon before hand it might be a good deal worse than just killing a baby fresh out the womb.

[Slipperychicken]

Oh, I had meant polymorphing something that wasn't sentient (or something very evil) into my victims, I mean killing a baby is still bad, but I figure if it was a mass murdering demon before hand it might be a good deal worse than just killing a baby fresh out the womb.

Well, you've got the right mindset for a lich to-be. Trying to compromise with that kind of ludicrous evil will help set you down the path of darkness.