Stripping a character with disarm (3.5)

[aeauseth]

The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#disarm) disarm rules discuss Grabbing Items.

I had a scenario where creature A had pinned a player and creature B started to strip the pinned player of all of his gear (using disarm rules). The SRD states:


You can use a disarm action to snatch an item worn by the target. If you want to have the item in your hand, the disarm must be made as an unarmed attack.

If the item is poorly secured or otherwise easy to snatch or cut away the attacker gets a +4 bonus. Unlike on a normal disarm attempt, failing the attempt doesn't allow the defender to attempt to disarm you. This otherwise functions identically to a disarm attempt, as noted above.

You can’t snatch an item that is well secured unless you have pinned the wearer (see Grapple). Even then, the defender gains a +4 bonus on his roll to resist the attempt.


It seems straight forward for to strip a ring, amulet, bracers, shield, helmet, face item, boots, etc from a pinned creature using the disarm rules. What about armor that requires more than 1 round to don/doff? What about a backpack?

I appears that if creature A is doing the pinning, creatures A & B can both spend their round stripping one item each. Pinning doesn't seem to require a grapple check to maintain.

This tactic seems overly cruel and exceptionally smart, so I wouldn't use if often. In this particular case the creature was a Farastu Demodand, so it seemed appropriate.

As a side note the players were smart and managed to save the pinned creature before things got too far out of hand. I allowed the wizard to make a touch attack vs a magic item the Farastu just finished stripping off the pinned creature and allowed him to teleport it and the pinned player away from danger. The Farastu got a will save. It is legal to touch an item an opponent is holding and teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm) away with it? Also seems cruel. Imagine touching the fighter's +5 plate armor and teleporting away with it. Fighter will likely fail the will save.

[Jack_Simth]

It seems straight forward for to strip a ring, amulet, bracers, shield, helmet, face item, boots, etc from a pinned creature using the disarm rules. What about armor that requires more than 1 round to don/doff? What about a backpack?
Oversight in the rules. There's a rather lot of those.

Pinning doesn't seem to require a grapple check to maintain.That's because it's not maintained. It lasts 1 round. You need to re-pin the next. "You can hold your opponent immobile for 1 round by winning an opposed grapple check (made in place of an attack). Once you have an opponent pinned, you have a few options available to you (see below)." (emphasis added, copy/paste from Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple))

This tactic seems overly cruel and exceptionally smart, so I wouldn't use if often.Eh, if you've got them outclassed sufficiently that they're pinned, and don't have another way out of it, you've already won anyway. This isn't really a "win" strategy so much as a "win more" strategy - and at that, you could probably kill them and take their stuff faster.

As a side note the players were smart and managed to save the pinned creature before things got too far out of hand. I allowed the wizard to make a touch attack vs a magic item the Farastu just finished stripping off the pinned creature and allowed him to teleport it and the pinned player away from danger. The Farastu got a will save. It is legal to touch an item an opponent is holding and teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm) away with it? Also seems cruel. Imagine touching the fighter's +5 plate armor and teleporting away with it. Fighter will likely fail the will save.Don't forget the (mostly trivial) touch attack, but yes. Of course, if they're failing a Will save vs. a 5th level Sor/Wiz spell, there's far (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm) more (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/feeblemind.htm) debilitating (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdMonster.htm) things (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm).

[herrhauptmann]

Gloves and gauntlets I agree.
Bracers? Not so much. Depending on the style, you're looking at several buckles per arm, one of which will be at the elbow preventing it from just sliding down. Granted, you only need one bracer off to render the other magical piece inert. Ditto for helmets, not all sit on your head like baseball cap. (The Audi Murphy movie "To hell and back" discusses not actually buckling your helmet so that an explosion doesn't rip your head off, but that's rather the exception.) But those pieces are generally included in the whole donning process since they don't actually affect your AC.
But all that works on assumptions with armor that D&D doesn't actually care about and never bothered to make a ruling on.

Armor that takes more than a round? I'd say you'd have to spend several rounds undoing buckles to remove that plate armor from someone. Halfway through, you've gotten enough buckles that their armor counts as being "Donned hastily" granting them penalties. Something like a chain suit? You're trying to pin someone and take a shirt off them, or their pants. Pretty much impossible to do in one round I think. Even multiple rounds when performed alone.
Fortunately, the BoEF already has a spell for this.

Touching someones gear and teleporting with it? No.
That is their gear, not yours. You can teleport with gear that you control, which includes unattended gear. But the stuff they're wearing is attended, so it doesn't go unless they go.
If you persisted in trying that in my game, the wizard would find himself teleported with the enemy fighter he just tried to steal the armor from. Better yet, he'd probably be alone and away from his allies.

[Jack_Simth]

Touching someones gear and teleporting with it? No.
That is their gear, not yours. You can teleport with gear that you control, which includes unattended gear. But the stuff they're wearing is attended, so it doesn't go unless they go.
If you persisted in trying that in my game, the wizard would find himself teleported with the enemy fighter he just tried to steal the armor from. Better yet, he'd probably be alone and away from his allies.
RAW, it actually works, as nearly as I can tell (it's "touched objects" not "carried objects"; it permits a Will save and SR for objects, and the spell description even explicitly says "Only objects held or in use (attended) by another person receive saving throws and spell resistance"). There's much worse things to do to a person with a 5th level Sor/Wiz spell than steal one or two pieces of their equipment, though, so it's really not even all that unbalanced as far as Wizard spells and tactics go.