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JetpackJimmy
2014-12-28, 10:42 PM
EDIT:
CHECKING FOR INTEREST IN SBURB SESSION GAME. THREAD HERE:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?391348-Homestuck-Fate-Accelerated-Play-by-Post-Interest-Check&p=18612437#post18612437





So, Playgrounders, I've been toying around with running a Homestuck RPG. The main issue is, there's a major question in running it.

I've decided that GURPS is a system that is versatile and one I'm reasonably familiar with, so it shouldn't be an issue to run. Also, when you think Alternate Realities in a RPG, you think GURPS. :smallwink:

The main issue is what to do with the trademark Homestuck cast size. The main comic has something like 24 "PCs", as a general rough blanket statement.

Even eliminating Alpha universe characters, the general size of a troll cast and the human cast is nearly impossible to run in any kind of normal gaming group. A workaround might include having a far smaller "PC" base, by running a campaign focusing on a smaller group of SBURB/SGRUB players, but unless the players are Cherubs (Which might make for an interesting campaign in itself!) we come to a similar problem.

This problem being that the plot of Homestuck is spread among two "PC" friendly worlds, and all sorts of alternate universes and other planets/Lands. To have the GM control all humans or all trolls is feasible, but lacks the sort of interacting personalities that grants Homestuck its charm. This problem also affects a mixed-species group, with the added issue of one or two of the players interacting with an entirely different set of NPCs to the other players.

Players could play multiple characters, but that is a roleplaying challenge for most players, and can lead to general silliness.

TL;DR: Homestuck's massive amounts of character interaction makes for a tough roleplaying setup. Playing a Cherub game, or a game with a few of one group and many NPCs seems workable, especially if players took possession of NPCs after death, with the dead PC returning as an NPC, possibly in a dreambubble.


Possible Systems

*GURPS (Doable, but sort of overly-complex for our needs, and focused on realism.)

*Cortex Plus

*Savage Worlds

*The Welcome to Night Vale RPG (Very simple, free, and changing it to be more Homestuck is a matter of adding skills. The opposite extreme of GURPS) https://www.dropbox.com/s/8k6rktr6artcc24/Welcome%20To%20Night%20Vale%20Tabletop%20RPG.pdf


EDIT: GURPS definitely does not seem like the ideal system to use, so that's a important thing to consider.

GorinichSerpant
2014-12-29, 12:01 AM
I think that post-by-post play would suit the beginning of Homestuck nicely, sense all interactions were threw pesterchum and variants. It may allow you to have more PCs then a game in the flesh but I don't actully know how post-by-post works.

Laughingmanlol
2014-12-29, 04:41 AM
In dealing with the different personalities, I guess what I'd suggest is to have each player control a beta kid, with a few trolls for pesterlogs and the like. Of course, it would be a good idea to ensure the set of characters given to each player didn't interact much, since it would be dull if, say, one person at the table was controlling the equivalent of the "Make Her Pay" group of Terezi, Vriska and Aradia. By the time the alternate sessions become relevant, they'd hopefully have enough practice at playing multiple characters sensibly to cope with the doubling of the cast.

Personally, I'd consider the time-travel and mythological roles a much more challenging feature to fit into an RPG.
The former would be difficult as a time player can invalidate the decisions of other players, such as could be seen when Dave prevented John's premature visit to his denizen, or as we might be seeing with the latest retcon-heir updates. I'd want to make sure the time player wouldn't act without the group's approval, if not bringing the other characters along on the time travel adventure.
With mythological roles, there are two problems.
Firstly, agreeing on what they actually mean! The huge Classpect threads on the MSPA forums are testament to the possible interpretations, and a lot of game time could be taken up with discussing what a Sylph does and whether inversion is a thing. My solution would be to either have everyone come up with a group interpretation before character creation, or to use a single source's understanding exclusively, such as by assuming that the Sburb Glitch FAQ or BladekindEyewear's analysis is correct.
Secondly, there could be issues in modelling the development of the powers associated with each role, since players appear to become more powerful the more they act according to their role. Again, there are a couple of options. You could either come up with the actions associated with each class and aspect, and assign a bonus when they're acting in such a manner (perhaps even keeping the requirements and bonuses secret to prevent metagaming?), or the players could agree to roleplay their character development as they level up and gain mechanical power. They would have to begin with a rough idea of their character's issues (such as a hero complex or alcoholism, for instance) and how they could overcome them as they progress, but I think it could be an interesting way of exploring that part of the setting.

However, it's definitely an interesting idea, and it looks like you've put quite a bit of thought into it already. I'd be interested in participating if you end up running one in the forums, although I'm not so familiar with GURPS.

JetpackJimmy
2014-12-29, 03:17 PM
In dealing with the different personalities, I guess what I'd suggest is to have each player control a beta kid, with a few trolls for pesterlogs and the like. Of course, it would be a good idea to ensure the set of characters given to each player didn't interact much, since it would be dull if, say, one person at the table was controlling the equivalent of the "Make Her Pay" group of Terezi, Vriska and Aradia. By the time the alternate sessions become relevant, they'd hopefully have enough practice at playing multiple characters sensibly to cope with the doubling of the cast.

Personally, I'd consider the time-travel and mythological roles a much more challenging feature to fit into an RPG.
The former would be difficult as a time player can invalidate the decisions of other players, such as could be seen when Dave prevented John's premature visit to his denizen, or as we might be seeing with the latest retcon-heir updates. I'd want to make sure the time player wouldn't act without the group's approval, if not bringing the other characters along on the time travel adventure.
With mythological roles, there are two problems.
Firstly, agreeing on what they actually mean! The huge Classpect threads on the MSPA forums are testament to the possible interpretations, and a lot of game time could be taken up with discussing what a Sylph does and whether inversion is a thing. My solution would be to either have everyone come up with a group interpretation before character creation, or to use a single source's understanding exclusively, such as by assuming that the Sburb Glitch FAQ or BladekindEyewear's analysis is correct.
Secondly, there could be issues in modelling the development of the powers associated with each role, since players appear to become more powerful the more they act according to their role. Again, there are a couple of options. You could either come up with the actions associated with each class and aspect, and assign a bonus when they're acting in such a manner (perhaps even keeping the requirements and bonuses secret to prevent metagaming?), or the players could agree to roleplay their character development as they level up and gain mechanical power. They would have to begin with a rough idea of their character's issues (such as a hero complex or alcoholism, for instance) and how they could overcome them as they progress, but I think it could be an interesting way of exploring that part of the setting.

However, it's definitely an interesting idea, and it looks like you've put quite a bit of thought into it already. I'd be interested in participating if you end up running one in the forums, although I'm not so familiar with GURPS.


Some very thoughtful ideas up there! The discussion on Classpects is wonderful, as is the discussion on including multiple PCs to one player.

An alternative might be having single PCs, but player-created NPCs ready to become PCs upon player death/NPChood, with the original characters becoming "minor characters" or something.

Player death/switching would need to be sufficiently uncommon though, or a lack of immersion and character-interest could happen.

PrincessCupcake
2014-12-30, 11:55 AM
I'd say have everyone create a couple of characters (ex: 1 human, 1 troll) but make it so that they are only ever playing one at a time. Possibly throw in a clause like "I'll be selecting which human your troll first contacts". Have them switch back and forth as the situation warrants or the players desire.

When they switch, have them give their other character a task to do. Something that might take up some time but wouldn't be all that interesting to them. These characters can send messages/items/recipes/etc. to other players but are otherwise out of play until switched back.

Troll Ancestors and human parents can be background NPCs (given titles by the PCS they represent alternates of) until the point where they end up creating alternate reality insanity (at which point you have them stat them up like new characters).

----------------------------------------------------

........now I have ideas for a SBURB/SGRUB game. I'm already running too many games darn it!

JetpackJimmy
2014-12-30, 01:37 PM
Good ideas here, though I as a player would have trouble with the well-thought-out but kind of confusing PC distribution above me! :smallredface:

RPG systems choice also suddenly becomes an issue, as GURPS is ...not exactly the best system for high-cinema, versatile powers and loose realism campaigns at the level of Homestuck.

PrincessCupcake
2014-12-30, 01:55 PM
My personal suggestions for a system are Savage Worlds or Big Eyes Small Mouth. BESM in particular plays fast and loose with the laws of reality.

JetpackJimmy
2014-12-30, 02:43 PM
Thanks for the recommendation of Savage Worlds!

That and Cortex Plus are definitely my top two choices. BESM seems cool, but I'm a little wary about the d20 system and seeming exclusivity to anime.

ImNotTrevor
2014-12-30, 05:36 PM
I think the thing to remember more than anything is this:

The sessions involved in Homestuck are not the norm. Far outside of it.

I would recommend attempting it with an actual plain vanilla session first before you attempt to run a multiverse-spanning epoch of the level Hussie has created. Seriously.

JetpackJimmy
2014-12-30, 07:10 PM
Of course! That was actually my suggestion, to have a significantly smaller group of characters, even going down to a two-person session. Possibly a cherub session.

System choice is still a question, and it can be fun to include characters from multiple planets in a more limited capacity.

EDIT: List of possible RPG systems added. Open for suggestions!

Laughingmanlol
2014-12-31, 04:52 AM
There's a mod of D&D 4e (http://mspaforums.com/showthread.php?33724-The-Homestuck-tabletop-RPG-SYLLADEX-DECK-CREATOR-v-2&p=4446662&viewfull=1#post4446662) for Homestuck, though it seems incomplete and I'm not sure how the sylladex mechanics work.
I've had a quick look at GURPS and I think the point-buy system could be a good way of balancing the various possible god-tier powers, but the complexity might be an issue as you said.
Adapting a simpler system looks like the best way of managing it, though, since it would mostly be a matter of replacing health with gel viscosity, strength with mangrit, and so on, before coming up with some powers that fit the players' roles for higher levels

JetpackJimmy
2014-12-31, 09:24 PM
From what I can tell, Fate Core/Fate Accelerated both seem to be VERY usable, just flipping through the PDFs. Savage Worlds, however, might be a bit low-powered and restrictive for Homestuck.

I'm loving FAE especially!

Thoughts?

A Tad Insane
2015-01-01, 12:32 PM
Since aspects are loosely defined, and the class even less so (except the ones who's powers have been specifically stated in comic) making sure each player has a lot of freedom with their 'builds' is something to make note of

Thomar_of_Uointer
2015-01-01, 11:31 PM
From what I can tell, Fate Core/Fate Accelerated both seem to be VERY usable, just flipping through the PDFs. Savage Worlds, however, might be a bit low-powered and restrictive for Homestuck.

I'm loving FAE especially!

Thoughts?

Agreed. FAE would be a good fit for abilities that range the gamut from pedestrian to reality-bending and aren't tied to any one skill. (http://fate-srd.com/fate-accelerated/get-started) Since Aspects Are Always True, but always have a balanced mechanical effect on dice rolls, you could have characters with wildly varying supernatural abilities based on their aspects all in the same party.

As a GM, you'll have to figure out how to make target numbers for supernatural abilities on the fly because all of the classpect abilities are so vague. This is probably best done by adapting the Narrative Difficulty setup to FAE's +0 to +8 difficulty ladder: http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/element.htm



Trivial (+10) The spell has no practical effect to speak of.
Simple (+5) The spell will make things more fun for everybody.
Ordinary (+0) The spell would be nifty. Nothing special.
Complex (-5) The spell would hog the scene a bit.
Difficult (-10 or 1/2) The spell would upstage the other characters.
Dangerous (-15 or 1/4) The spell would upstage the whole scenario.
Impossible (1/10) The spell would upstage the GM.


I wouldn't worry too much about using MP or resources or stress tracks for supernatural abilities. As long as there's a dramatic consequence for failing any roll, and the consequence for failure is balanced with the gains of success (even if the consequence is just wasting your time), using supernatural abilities will fit into the game just fine. This means you should take drastic measures to avoid rolling for anything that's boring or inconsequential.

If you really must have unique mechanics for supernatural abilities, I guess you could use high-powered stunts that cost refresh to acquire.

JetpackJimmy
2015-01-02, 11:37 AM
Agreed. FAE would be a good fit for abilities that range the gamut from pedestrian to reality-bending and aren't tied to any one skill. (http://fate-srd.com/fate-accelerated/get-started) Since Aspects Are Always True, but always have a balanced mechanical effect on dice rolls, you could have characters with wildly varying supernatural abilities based on their aspects all in the same party.

As a GM, you'll have to figure out how to make target numbers for supernatural abilities on the fly because all of the classpect abilities are so vague. This is probably best done by adapting the Narrative Difficulty setup to FAE's +0 to +8 difficulty ladder: http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/element.htm



I wouldn't worry too much about using MP or resources or stress tracks for supernatural abilities. As long as there's a dramatic consequence for failing any roll, and the consequence for failure is balanced with the gains of success (even if the consequence is just wasting your time), using supernatural abilities will fit into the game just fine. This means you should take drastic measures to avoid rolling for anything that's boring or inconsequential.

If you really must have unique mechanics for supernatural abilities, I guess you could use high-powered stunts that cost refresh to acquire.


This approach seems basically perfect! Thank you so much for exploring it in depth!

I'm still kind of trying to figure out if my players should be playing humans, Beforans, Alternians, or Cherubs, as they'll all present very different styles of RPG play.

JetpackJimmy
2015-01-03, 09:37 PM
Also, found an amazing SBURB conceptual walkthrough that basically converts a normal SBURB session into a video game, so it's perfect for ripping things from it for a tabletop game! Also very silly! I recommend it!

http://archiveofourown.org/works/211975/chapters/317350