Tonight... we buy in hell!

[Spider_Jerusalem]

After a long time without time due to sickness, I'm back to DMing to my group of players. Which, on one side, was good, since we stopped playing after they plane shifted to Hell (one of the PCs is a knight who was the general of the army the group was supporting, he was killed by a Blackguard and soulbound to Hell, and, well... there are no resurrection spells in our campaign, so the group got a little... creative to get him back).

During this time without playing, I took my time to prepare things, including creating some NPCs, adding advanced monsters and fluffing everything (we play in a homebrewed scenario, so yeah). One of the new monsters I'm using is the "bargain devil", which is a rare kind of imp with golden eyes, and the ability to see the things each mortal value the most, which enables them to always offer hard-to-refuse, but painful deals.

I do have some uses for these creatures, but I actually wanted to use some of them as merchants, offering unique magic items for unique prices. I decided that any item sold in an Infernal shop needs to have some drawback, and I also decided that it has to be a moral drawback, not a mechanical one. The idea is selling items that seem to be underpriced, are too powerful to be good, but have an extra cost to pay, one which has more to do with tainting your soul than getting some kind of penalty.

So, can you guys help me with a few ideas? :smallsmile:

[Malroth]

For the "cheap" stuff he'll take payment in sacrificed Innocents and is willing to use a Geass as a Downpayment (aka they get the Item at a slightly increased price for agreeing to sacrifice the Innocents at a later date and the Geass is just to enforce the bargian) .

[animewatcha]

Price or payment: Causing an Exalted to fall..

[Tohsaka Rin]

For things that are more powerful than their monetary worth, alignment hit.

For every creature killed, add a tally. Ten ticks, move one step closer to Chaotic Evil on the alignment chart. Start with the furthest extreme (either Lawful or Good, depending on what their starting alignment is) and inch first one, then the other, towards Neutral. From there, it's a slippery slope to becoming completely corrupted.

Remember, if something is too good to be true, it definitely IS in DnD.

I highly suggest NOT using this, if your players either:

A) Care little for their alignment

B) Are a Paladin or Cleric

C) Are immature jackasses who'll ruin the game by reveling in pure evil carnage.

As always, your mileage may vary, consult a local Playgrounder to find out if Pure Evil is right for you. Side-effects may include: Whining, TPKs, Power-gaming, back-stabbing, power-levelling, rail-roading, sweeping through a six-month campaign in four weeks.

[atemu1234]

A soul for a soul: the knight's SO, Soul Trapped and delivered within a year and a day.

[goto124]

I highly suggest NOT using this, if your players either:

A) Care little for their alignment

C) Are immature jackasses who'll ruin the game by reveling in pure evil carnage.



I also decided that it has to be a moral drawback, not a mechanical one.

Moral drawbacks aren't likely to work on players who didn't really care about being Good in the first place, I imagine. Would it be safe to assume that the players will want to keep their Good alignment?

[HyperDunkBarkly]

the knight at least needs to keep his lawful alignment.

[Urpriest]

In general, temptation works better when the cost seems small, but really isn't.

Here's an idea: the PC gets the item, but the item lets the imp spy on the PC, and allows them one opportunity to control the PC's actions, chosen by the imp. Seems minor, but one action can cause a lot of evil in the right hands...

[Arbane]

A magic weapon, very powerful. Anyone killed by it is automatically consigned to hell.
So is the wielder, if they die holding it.

How about a Ring of Regeneration that makes the regenerated bits grow back Fiendish? ("'Better than new!', the imp said. And I was dumb enough to believe it...")

A magic circlet of persuasion. Everything you say is treated as a Suggestion spell. EVERYTHING. Because free will is overrated.

A charm of parasitical luck. 3/day, it can give you a massive luck bonus on one roll. It then gives an ally of yours twice as large a penalty on the next IMPORTANT roll they make. ("It absorbs 'ambient good fortune', the little chiseler said...")

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Thanks for the ideas, guys! They're being extremely helpful.


A magic weapon, very powerful. Anyone killed by it is automatically consigned to hell.
So is the wielder, if they die holding it.

How about a Ring of Regeneration that makes the regenerated bits grow back Fiendish? ("'Better than new!', the imp said. And I was dumb enough to believe it...")

A magic circlet of persuasion. Everything you say is treated as a Suggestion spell. EVERYTHING. Because free will is overrated.

A charm of parasitical luck. 3/day, it can give you a massive luck bonus on one roll. It then gives an ally of yours twice as large a penalty on the next IMPORTANT roll they make. ("It absorbs 'ambient good fortune', the little chiseler said...")

Those seem nice. Really nice.

And as for alignments, there actually is an evil druid in the party. One who was tricked into making a pact with a demon whose identity he doesn't know, and he doesn't actually quite understand what he loses. (All he knows, for now, is that he is marked and all intelligent creatures just know he belongs to a demon). And I don't think my players are immature, so even the evil druid is not idiotic evil. He actually has goals, and, even though they do not envolve being concerned for the safety of the "prey", they do not include "randomly doing evil stuff because that's how you accumulate evil points".

(We use alignments very loosely, by the way. It helped a lot with role-playing when we stopped using good and evil as things that are set in stone. Some players even think angels are evil, since the group learned the gods they know are actually dead or enslaved by the Matriarch, which is the creator of the Illithid, who came from beyond reality to "learn" every plane possible)


In general, temptation works better when the cost seems small, but really isn't.

Here's an idea: the PC gets the item, but the item lets the imp spy on the PC, and allows them one opportunity to control the PC's actions, chosen by the imp. Seems minor, but one action can cause a lot of evil in the right hands...

Well, this is very nice, too. It can probably seem like a very minor price, but become extremely terrible. I can imagine things like the imp using that single action to make the character "voluntarily" break a later pact, and then arguing that "nobody never said anything about controlled actions not counting as 'your' actions" or something.


Moral drawbacks aren't likely to work on players who didn't really care about being Good in the first place, I imagine. Would it be safe to assume that the players will want to keep their Good alignment?

A lot of them do actually work, without the black/white alignment thing. Even though the druid is vicious and sadistic, it doesn't mean he doesn't care about anybody. There was actually a kind of a hostage situation involving his Animal Companion, for example, and he didn't just ignore it.

(Spoiler tag is here in case my players eventually get to this thread)

Up to now, I made two items (which are part of the same set). They are the Horns of the Goat King (and can actually be acquired by killing said goat monarch). Blowing the first of them makes your allies unkillable in a battle (like Deathless Frenzy, minus the Frenzy thing) for as long as it is played. On the other hand, everyone who hears it starts to listen to the whispers of the demon, and it fills them with "murderous intent"). It doesn't seem much, since it will appear that stopping to play the horn ends this effect as well. The warriors will stop fighting savagely and rest or die as appropriate). On the other hand, that "murderous intent" will be noticeable when the PCs speak to NPCs. A noble and benevolous knight might talk about his family, saying something like "I've seen blood and the guts of my closest friends be scattered through the battlefield. I had to fight and slay some previous allies, all for those sorry excuses of human beings! I am here, at war, while they stay safe behind the walls of the Tyrant! Spoiled boy, damned witch, I shall show them respect... They will learn as I did... by the BLADE."

Playing the other one spreads sorrow, making it impossible for enemies who hear it to sleep at night. As for the allies, they will actually lose "hope points", becoming less willing to try difficult tasks for each point of hope that is lost (and surrendering immediately if they get to 0). Since they are playing a war, even when it ends, the sadness and apathy will continue (and, in some cases, grow), and it can lead to heartbreaking in-game consequences.

I also thought about a blade that is absurdly strong, but claims the life of one close ally or friend for each life it takes (the idea is to make it look like an accident). I don't know if this could work, though.


A soul for a soul: the knight's SO, Soul Trapped and delivered within a year and a day.

This was the first idea I had when I thought about using Bargain Devils haha
And it would need to be a virtuous AND equally powerful soul, of course. Which can be a little bit... difficult to find inside Hell, to say the least.

[Renen]

Or just give them "curses" that are only removed with wish. So for every item you buy, get a curse. Like:

Take twice the damage from anything "ranged"
Toll twice take lowest always
Your equipment weights double
You always lose initiative
People are less likely to agree with you/like you at first sight
Every night an imp shows up to die your hair a new color, and doodle on your face

[Crake]

Every night an imp shows up to die your hair a new color, and doodle on your face

nothing prestidigitation can't fix XD

[animewatcha]

nothing prestidigitation can't fix XD

When prestidigitated, the doodling not only is not undone... It gets worse and extends to the whole body...

[Gnoman]

Make the items addictive. If it's a weapon, have it randomly "draw itself" if the character isn't in a fight or replace a different weapon when drawn, for equipment that takes up slots have it occasionally turn out that you equipped it instead of whatever the character meant to use, or for command-activated items have it sometimes activate where they could have used it but decided not to (for example, a ring of Charm Person might randomly activate in the middle of a negotiation, using up a use and possibly screwing things up.) In all cases, have the chance of it happening increase the more often the item is used. Start with very low odds of it happening, perhaps 1% of the time, increasing 1% every ten times the thing is used willingly or not.

[Barstro]

Or just give them "curses" that are only removed with wish. So for every item you buy, get a curse. Like:

*snip*

This was my thought as well. If your characters roleplay lawfully, they would never get the alignment shifting items. Most other items seem to just be flavor drawbacks.

But making a powerful item that has random tangible effects can be worth it. Why even tell the PCs the drawback. Just have the prices seem quite reasonable. Maybe they see the sign at the shop stating that there are other prices to be paid, maybe they don't.

Since your PCs entered Hell to get back a party member, they seem willing to role play. Some of my concerns might not apply to them.

Possible curses;
Random extra damage to wielder,
Wielder become addicted to something (something evil, like drinking blood)
After so many kills, the weapon alters the wielder's Feats
Wielder starts to "realize" his party is out to get him
Weapon has no effect against high level evil NPCs, but player never realizes it
Wielder gets premonitions of his loved ones being tortured.
As above, but spouse being unfaithful (causing PC to take revenge on the innocent third party for perceived wrongdoings)
Wielder because tied to the Hell plane and cannot leave for long
Every x number of rounds, PC is controlled by DM and attacks party

[animewatcha]

Can have two price listed for every item ( mixture of normal items and cursed items )in the shop..A lowered price being a reasonable price that is atleast slightly better than competitor. The higher price being that the difference is payment for information about the item ( item must be purchased first ). On normal items, they could see as a swindle. Cursed items 'oh by the way..'