PC wants a rhino mount

[FishBonePendant]

Our current campaign has migrated to the desert in our campaign world. The PCs now of a local Human/Halfling community that breeds rhinos as mounts and one of the PCs wants to buy one as his mount during our next session. He suggested that the Rhino would cost the same as a normal horse.

Hahahaha.

No.

(Hit Dice: 8d8+40 (76 hp)/Powerful Charge (Ex): A rhinoceros deals 4d6+24 points of
damage when it makes a charge.)

He still wants to buy a Rhino mount to carry him through the desert and I don't see any reason he shouldn't be allowed to buy the rhino (at this point) but I can't seem to find a rule set or price scale for purchasing mounts. I'm considering just homebrewing a price scale based on CR. Since a CR 1 light warhorse costs 150gp and a heavy warhorse costs 400 I'm thinking multiply the price by 2.5 for each CR increase making a rhino mount cost 2500gp

Has anyone done anything similar or do you guys have any suggestions?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Arms & Equipment Guide has prices for unusual mounts, including the rhinoceros.

[FishBonePendant]

Arms & Equipment Guide has prices for unusual mounts, including the rhinoceros.

Ah damn, that should've been the first place to look. Thank you.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Monster Manual II (which is 3.0) has a war beast template, with the example animal being a rhino. It lists the price of rhino with template at 775 gp. The template adds 1 HD and several useful bonuses (str, con, wis, speed, spot/listen, armor proficiencies).

Lords of Madness has the Neogi, which are interstellar/planar slave traders. Their section mentions a base price guideline for slaves, which you could use here: CR squared times 100 gp. That works out to 2500 gp for the same war rhino, or 1600 for the base rhino. That's the price with the trader's fee in it, presumably they'd be cheaper at the source.

Edit: the Arms & Equipment Guide price is 200 gp for a young (untrained) rhino, which seems a bit on the low side to me.

[FishBonePendant]

Edit: the Arms & Equipment Guide price is 200 gp for a young (untrained) rhino, which seems a bit on the low side to me.

I just got done reading that too. It seems the Arms and Equipment guide says "young" rhinos cost 200gp. But since I don't recall ever hearing of an age scale for rhinos or some template for young creatures I am still at a loss for what to do here. I know pathfinder has a "young" template but it reduces the creature's size by one category, eliminating the PCs ability to use the young rhino as a mount.

The Neogi price scale sounds a heck of a lot more reasonable than the one I threw out there earlier, I think I'll stick with that. I figure I can "lower the price from the source" buy changing to CR squared times 90gp and then add the price of training the Rhino for combat riding. Thanks so much for the help!

[Forrestfire]

A young rhino doesn't have combat stats, since it's meant to be reared and trained with Handle Animal. If I'm remembering correctly, rhinos are adults around 4-5 years old?

[Metahuman1]

Just show him the Warbeast Rhino, at a base price of 750, and offer to let him Haggle using the rules form I think it was Complete Adventurer for Diplomacy if he wishes.



What class is he? Cause, if he's like a fighter or a barbarian or a paladin or a warblade or crusader or something, cutting that 750GP by up to 30% isn't gonna hurt anything in the least.

[Urpriest]

A young rhino doesn't have combat stats, since it's meant to be reared and trained with Handle Animal. If I'm remembering correctly, rhinos are adults around 4-5 years old?

This. You buy a young rhino, then you have to take the time to rear/train it. Or, as mentioned, go for a warbeast.

[Vortenger]

Please note that the Arms & Equipment Guide is 3.0 and the economy was balanced very differently. Most things in that book register as way too cheap by 3.5 standards. Some adjudication is probably necessary. I think the slave price mentioned above from LoM sounds much more realistic in 3.5.

[tomandtish]

Page 94 seems appropriate..... (http://dsrindustries.org/rpg/D%26D%203.5/Dragon%20Magazines/Accessory%20-%20Dragon%20Magazine%20%23102.pdf)

[Flickerdart]

That rhino may sound cheap, but remember that by the time 2500gp is actually affordable, it'll be dying every other combat unless the party devotes massive healing resources to it.

[P.F.]

That rhino may sound cheap, but remember that by the time 2500gp is actually affordable, it'll be dying every other combat unless the party devotes massive healing resources to it.

I'd go with a triceratops instead.

[Fitz10019]

Monster Manual II ... lists the price of rhino with template at 775 gp.

That price is very low. If you use that price, be sure to give the rhino the personality of a dog, so it tries to snuggle next to the owner at every campsite. There's no reason a rhino would behave like a horse.

[Flickerdart]

That price is very low. If you use that price, be sure to give the rhino the personality of a dog, so it tries to snuggle next to the owner at every campsite. There's no reason a rhino would behave like a horse.
A herbivorous non-domesticated animal is not going to act like a dog any more than it's going to act like a horse.

[the_david]

A rhinoceros in the desert? Don't they live in the jungle?

[atemu1234]

A herbivorous non-domesticated animal is not going to act like a dog any more than it's going to act like a horse.

It'd still be adorable/deadly. Adoreadly.

[Fitz10019]

A herbivorous non-domesticated animal is not going to act like a dog any more than it's going to act like a horse.

It's not going to fetch the newspaper, or bark at the letter carrier, but it can expect constant attention, and snuggling.

[atemu1234]

It's not going to fetch the newspaper, or bark at the letter carrier, but it can expect constant attention, and snuggling.

And needs you to scratch it's face, because it just can't reach.

[Ferronach]

One of my fellow players is a house-ruled small dwarven druid that has a Rhino as his mount/animal companion.... nedless to say that George has caused many funny situations.
Also, having your 600+ lb rhino sit on a bad guy can help keep him out of the way until you are ready to deal with him XD

[(Un)Inspired]

A rhinoceros in the desert? Don't they live in the jungle?

I believe they are native to savannahs.

[Vhaidara]

Also, having your 600+ lb rhino sit on a bad guy can help keep him out of the way until you are ready to deal with him XD

We used a 1000+lb whale-man for that. He also did it with party members who threw tantrums.

The best one was when, because of a low Int and Wis, we got him to try and sit on himself.

[RoboEmperor]

I've played with a golem mount before. It was awesome.

Generally you can't buy animals like that. He needs sufficient handle animal skill and capture/tame one himself.

But if he doesn't, and he wants the rhino mount, it might be mean to enforce that.

Your math seems sound. 2500gp sounds reasonable.

[Ferronach]

We used a 1000+lb whale-man for that. He also did it with party members who threw tantrums.

The best one was when, because of a low Int and Wis, we got him to try and sit on himself.

I am a 1500 lb warforged.. I tried sitting on on someone once... it didn't end well :P

[Solaris]

That rhino may sound cheap, but remember that by the time 2500gp is actually affordable, it'll be dying every other combat unless the party devotes massive healing resources to it.

This, I think, is the more important point. If you price the rhino so high it becomes useless when you can afford it, you might as well not have it in the game.

I'm glad you're considering it, FishBonePendant; I know a lot of DMs would just tell him straight-out 'no'.
Will the character having a rhino mount break your game? Its CR is only about double that of a warhorse, but the player will have a hell of a time getting it into a dungeon. I propose that the 2.5x price comes not from each CR increase, but from each doubling of the CR - to about 1,000 gp for a rhino. I think (read: hope to the high heavens) they would be more domesticated than real-world rhinos, but if it turns game-breaking you could always have the rhino start getting more and more unruly and harder to control... at least until the player invests more into Handle Animal at higher levels where it's less of a killer (and don't forget to tell the player you're doing that, too).

If the player really falls in love with his rhino, a variation on the Wild Cohort (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Wild_Cohort) feat might be something you want to include (I suggest ignoring the 'druid level -3' bit for the additional options, as that nerfs things a little too hard and falls under the 'non-casters can't have nice things' thread WotC seemed hung up on).

[Honest Tiefling]

I believe they are native to savannahs.

According to wikipedia, the thing can live for a few days without water, so...Good enough? However, I would ask the PC how he intends to feed and water the thing.

Not to mention, I was under the impression that rhinos were ornery beasts prone to charging first, figuring out what it is later. That's going to be fun in a settlement...

[Solaris]

Not to mention, I was under the impression that rhinos were ornery beasts prone to charging first, figuring out what it is later. That's going to be fun in a settlement...

So are wild horses and wolves, but nobody complains about the druid's animal companion. If these things are bred as mounts, it's safe to assume that they're more domesticated than their real-world counterparts.

[Honest Tiefling]

Not within rules, I know, but I somehow think that the mystical being in touch with nature can probably control the darn thing better then the guy who picks one up at the marketplace.

Also, the animal companion is a class feature, not loot. I feel better about having things that aren't class features becoming problematic.

[FishBonePendant]

...If the player really falls in love with his rhino, a variation on the Wild Cohort (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Wild_Cohort) feat might be something you want to include (I suggest ignoring the 'druid level -3' bit for the additional options, as that nerfs things a little too hard and falls under the 'non-casters can't have nice things' thread WotC seemed hung up on).

I pretty much consider any pets, mounts, lackeys, and mascots as cohorts (leadership feat) when figuring out their advancement throughout the game. So the Rhino will already advance somewhat during the game. But yeah, Wild Cohort is an amazing feat, none of players really see a reason to take it right now though.

[FishBonePendant]

So are wild horses and wolves, but nobody complains about the druid's animal companion. If these things are bred as mounts, it's safe to assume that they're more domesticated than their real-world counterparts.

Yeah, this community breeds them as mounts from birth. The rhinos are domesticated and are all trained for combat riding right off the bat... but I don't think I'd have a problem with giving a few rhinos an ornery additude upping the DC of handle animal checks.

[Madhava]

Not to mention, I was under the impression that rhinos were ornery beasts prone to charging first, figuring out what it is later. That's going to be fun in a settlement...


So are wild horses and wolves, but nobody complains about the druid's animal companion. If these things are bred as mounts, it's safe to assume that they're more domesticated than their real-world counterparts.

Wild horses and wolves are herd/pack animals, which makes them 'trainable' (i.e., possibly allowing familiar humans into their herd/pack hierachy), if domesticated from infancy.

Honest Tiefling is correct; rhinos have the highest intraspecies kill-rate of any mammal. Rhinos are solitary, except in the case of breeding pairs (will tolerate each other for a few weeks) or mother-calf pairs (a few years). A male will attack his own calf if the mother doesn't intervene. Since they have horrible eyesight, so they'll charge at... well, anything that could look vaguely like another rhino, from a distance; termite mounds, rocks, tents, small dwellings, what have you.

As far as mammals go, I can't think of much else that'd be such a fantastically bad choice. They instinctively see everything else as a threat, unless it smells like feces of a fertile female. They are not trainable; they do not recognize, or look for, behavioral patterns among other creatures (unless you'd count 'attack' as a behavioral pattern). Two or more rhinos, if kept/trained together, will attack each other.

They are stubborn, near-blind, hostile, and a male would insist upon sleeping for more than 50% of the day. A female would insiste upon making a nice (rather blatant) scent-trail for males to follow, whenever she's feeling fertile, as solitary animals are wont to do.

An elephant would be so much easier. They are smarter, & they are accustomed to cooperative herd-living. So they'll instinctively watch for, and react to, ingrained behavioral patterns & hierarchy. Still, they are never 'tame'. They have been known to unexpectedly attack even a loving, or years-familiar human keeper. Because it's an elephant.

That said, I'm sure you could dominate a rhino, or a Druid could bond with one. Or, I suppose one could decide their world has intelligent fey-rhinos or somesuch.

[Peelee]

If the player really falls in love with his rhino, a variation on the Wild Cohort (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Wild_Cohort) feat might be something you want to include (I suggest ignoring the 'druid level -3' bit for the additional options, as that nerfs things a little too hard and falls under the 'non-casters can't have nice things' thread WotC seemed hung up on).

I have to say, it appears as if this isn't a "non-casters can't have nice things" bit, as it reads as if even full-on druids must treat themselves as a druid three levels lower than their character level.

[Magemakeboom]

I'm currently playing in a campaign, where I also wanted a cool mount instead of a horse. I also wanted a rhino. Along with my DM, we created a lesser rhino that was more in lined with a typically horse. He added a couple hundred to the price and it's worked out great.

It was a simple solution that allowed me to have a non-typical mount.

[Ferronach]

Wild horses and wolves are herd/pack animals, which makes them 'trainable' (i.e., possibly allowing familiar humans into their herd/pack hierachy), if domesticated from infancy.

Honest Tiefling is correct; rhinos have the highest intraspecies kill-rate of any mammal. Rhinos are solitary, except in the case of breeding pairs (will tolerate each other for a few weeks) or mother-calf pairs (a few years). A male will attack his own calf if the mother doesn't intervene. Since they have horrible eyesight, so they'll charge at... well, anything that could look vaguely like another rhino, from a distance; termite mounds, rocks, tents, small dwellings, what have you.

As far as mammals go, I can't think of much else that'd be such a fantastically bad choice. They instinctively see everything else as a threat, unless it smells like feces of a fertile female. They are not trainable; they do not recognize, or look for, behavioral patterns among other creatures (unless you'd count 'attack' as a behavioral pattern). Two or more rhinos, if kept/trained together, will attack each other.

They are stubborn, near-blind, hostile, and a male would insist upon sleeping for more than 50% of the day. A female would insiste upon making a nice (rather blatant) scent-trail for males to follow, whenever she's feeling fertile, as solitary animals are wont to do.

An elephant would be so much easier. They are smarter, & they are accustomed to cooperative herd-living. So they'll instinctively watch for, and react to, ingrained behavioral patterns & hierarchy. Still, they are never 'tame'. They have been known to unexpectedly attack even a loving, or years-familiar human keeper. Because it's an elephant.

That said, I'm sure you could dominate a rhino, or a Druid could bond with one. Or, I suppose one could decide their world has intelligent fey-rhinos or somesuch.

All very valid points.
However, I would argue that this is D&D and therfore the "trained rhinos" have slowly been magically altered over the years to become trainable and have better eyesight etc. Lets face it, if it won't break the game and will enhance the player's enjoyment of the game, why not go for it? The game is all about having fun after all.

[Solaris]

I have to say, it appears as if this isn't a "non-casters can't have nice things" bit, as it reads as if even full-on druids must treat themselves as a druid three levels lower than their character level.

But they get full-on animal companions while they do so. I'm cool with the feat granting lesser abilities than an animal companion, but forcing people to wait until the wild cohort is so weak as to practically get one-shotted every encounter is a bit much - especially considering the 1st-level animals don't have to wait like that.


All very valid points.
However, I would argue that this is D&D and therfore the "trained rhinos" have slowly been magically altered over the years to become trainable and have better eyesight etc. Lets face it, if it won't break the game and will enhance the player's enjoyment of the game, why not go for it? The game is all about having fun after all.

Precisely.
Real-world rhinos are horrible animals. I would've put in elephants, myself, and have done so (ever seen what a war-elephant does to a group of goblinoids? Hilarious. The party was scraping goblin guts off his feet for weeks). However, with D&D... in a setting that has elves, creatures of living fire, and dragons, domesticated rhinos don't even hiccup my suspension of disbelief.

[Peelee]

But they get full-on animal companions while they do so.
Yeah, but that's like saying, "but they get spells while they do so." Counting their own class abilities as a point against a feat that doesn't grant them anything special over other classes based on those same abilities is a bit unfair.

I'm cool with the feat granting lesser abilities than an animal companion, but forcing people to wait until the wild cohort is so weak as to practically get one-shotted every encounter is a bit much - especially considering the 1st-level animals don't have to wait like that.
Oh, yeah, totally agree with you there. But that's not a "only casters get nice things" issue. Which is the only thing I took issue with.

[Honest Tiefling]

A male will attack his own calf if the mother doesn't intervene.

...

Two or more rhinos, if kept/trained together, will attack each other.

Major nitpick, but these two are pretty true of many species, including say, dogs and cats.