1-20 crit range

[Raishoiken]

I've seen threat range threads around and i think the largest i've seen is 5-20, and I'd like to take it further than that. My previous attempt at an always crit (minus nat ones) kinda failed, i hope this one is a bit more fruitful

1-20 range
base weapon: chainblade (from torn asunder) 17-20
laminated steel 16-20
Improved critical: 11-20
Disciple of Dispater [iron power x2]: 5-20 then 1-20.

In addition to always confirm threats

Using create device (ravenloft legacy of blood) of the ward feat (ultimate feats pg 101), create a repeating (or continuous) Ward of dolorous blow (this spell again) on the chainblade, the activation trigger for which being when the weapon is used to attack

(i plan to continue making changes, don't have time to finish atm)

[Rebel7284]

1 is always a critical miss.

[Raishoiken]

I've seen threat range threads around and i think the largest i've seen is 5-20, and I'd like to take it further than that. My previous attempt at an always crit (minus nat ones)
/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rebel7284;18589472]1 is always a critical miss.

I know

[Chronos]

If you're going to be using homebrew, why not just homebrew something that'll get you there directly?

[Raishoiken]

If you're going to be using homebrew, why not just homebrew something that'll get you there directly?

Could you point out what of this is homebrew?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think that torn asunder is a 3rd party book, not homebrew.

[Seerow]

Laminated Steel is also 3rd party (some googling reveals it comes from an AEG book called Mercenaries).

[saxavarius]

You would still need to beat AC even if you threaten a critical, so there is little point to having a crit range of 1-20. you will most likely miss if you roll below a 5. You'd be better off aiming to get your attacks to target touch AC since most enemies you'll face have crap for touch.

[SiuiS]

I've seen threat range threads around and i think the largest i've seen is 5-20, and I'd like to take it further than that. My previous attempt at an always crit (minus nat ones) kinda failed, i hope this one is a bit more fruitful

1-20 range
base weapon: chainblade (from torn asunder) 17-20
laminated steel 16-20
Improved critical: 11-20
Disciple of Dispater [iron power x2]: 5-20 then 1-20.

In addition to always confirm threats

Using create device (ravenloft legacy of blood) of the ward feat (ultimate feats pg 101), create a repeating (or continuous) Ward of dolorous blow (this spell again) on the chainblade, the activation trigger for which being when the weapon is used to attack

(i plan to continue making changes, don't have time to finish atm)

What game is this for? That's a lot of secondary sources. Can I get books for chain blade, laminated steel, and confirmation that Ravenloft: legacy of blood is a book and not a feat or something?

This looks interesting, but only so-so. You spend all this effort to... Get a weapon that deals double damage. That's it. What nifty effects would you like to add on to make it worthwhile?

There's a feat chain in Rokugan that culminates in The Pinchers Hold, the Tail Strikes for scorpion clan samurai-ka. It let's you automatically threaten a critical on a successful feinted attack, and that seems much easier to do (get free-action feints). There's a feat somewhere that makes your critical threats auto-confirm (along with blessed weapons!). The ninja is a full BaB base class with sneak attack and there's that one feat that adds sneak attack to crits, that might be fun.

[Kraken]

Looks like custom magic items are already in play, so a custom item of continuous wraithstrike (Spell Comp.) would make you only need to hit touch AC.

[Raishoiken]

You would still need to beat AC even if you threaten a critical, so there is little point to having a crit range of 1-20. you will most likely miss if you roll below a 5. You'd be better off aiming to get your attacks to target touch AC since most enemies you'll face have crap for touch.

Dolorous blow (spell compendium) Auto confirms crits (also note I'm not using its range increase in range calculations, i know it doesn't stack)


What game is this for? That's a lot of secondary sources. Can I get books for chain blade, laminated steel, and confirmation that Ravenloft: legacy of blood is a book and not a feat or something?

This looks interesting, but only so-so. You spend all this effort to... Get a weapon that deals double damage. That's it. What nifty effects would you like to add on to make it worthwhile?

There's a feat chain in Rokugan that culminates in The Pinchers Hold, the Tail Strikes for scorpion clan samurai-ka. It let's you automatically threaten a critical on a successful feinted attack, and that seems much easier to do (get free-action feints). There's a feat somewhere that makes your critical threats auto-confirm (along with blessed weapons!). The ninja is a full BaB base class with sneak attack and there's that one feat that adds sneak attack to crits, that might be fun.

Laminated Steel is in More Ultimate Equipment
Chainblade from Torn Asunder
And It's Ravenloft: Legacy of The Blood, left out the "the"

[Renen]

The problem with using so many 3rd party stuff, is that people dont usually like 3rd party. Except for DSP. DSP is love, DSP is life.

[sideswipe]

just pointing out.... if you have a crit range of 10-20 and you take a level of martial monk and get the feat to take 10's on attacks with your weapon then you never miss and auto crit.

[Crake]

just pointing out.... if you have a crit range of 10-20 and you take a level of martial monk and get the feat to take 10's on attacks with your weapon then you never miss and auto crit.

Do you mean the stance that lets you take 11 on a single roll per round? I don't think there's any feat that lets you take 10 on attacks.

[nolongerchaos]

This looks interesting, but only so-so. You spend all this effort to... Get a weapon that deals double damage. That's it. What nifty effects would you like to add on to make it worthwhile?

There's a feat chain in Rokugan that culminates in The Pinchers Hold, the Tail Strikes for scorpion clan samurai-ka. It let's you automatically threaten a critical on a successful feinted attack, and that seems much easier to do (get free-action feints). There's a feat somewhere that makes your critical threats auto-confirm (along with blessed weapons!). The ninja is a full BaB base class with sneak attack and there's that one feat that adds sneak attack to crits, that might be fun.

For weapon enhancements for this sort of build, I'm a fan of Prismatic Burst as well as Aptitude so you can pick up the Lightning Mace feat and go to town, though it can be a bit much.

[Deadline]

The only problem I'm seeing here is that the initial roll has to actually hit the target in order to be a Critical Threat (and thus benefit from Dolorous Blow). So having a crit range of 2-20 is all fine and well, but if you can only hit your target on a 10 or higher, then roughly half of that is wasted effort.

So you'll want to ensure you can hit your target as well as having your multi-third party + custom magic weapon in place.

Also, just as a point of reference, most folks here don't really get all that excited by exploits introduced via 3rd party material because such material is unlikely to be allowed at many tables.

[SiuiS]

For weapon enhancements for this sort of build, I'm a fan of Prismatic Burst as well as Aptitude so you can pick up the Lightning Mace feat and go to town, though it can be a bit much.

There are existing builds to do that already. I think what's throwing me off is that's this is optimized gear rather than character. You can have both...

For extra shenanigans pick up the kata series one thousand years of steel and activate victory of the river, giving you a cumulative +5 attack bonus for every successful hit in a round. Grab the diamond mind maneuver that let's you perform an attack at a cumulative -4 as long as you keep hitting, and the luck feat that lets you count a natural 1 as a natural 20 on an attack.

Get a spread sheet ready for your infinite iterative fractalating attack chain: infinite blade works.

[sideswipe]

Do you mean the stance that lets you take 11 on a single roll per round? I don't think there's any feat that lets you take 10 on attacks.

i was slightly wrong its a few benefits and a 1/round take 10 is one.

WEAPON SUPREMACY PHB2

[Vhaidara]

Could you point out what of this is homebrew?

3rd party is homebrew that gets published.

And, as has been mentioned, you need to match/beat their AC to threaten a crit, regardless of your threat range.

[SiuiS]

3rd party is homebrew that gets published.

And, as has been mentioned, you need to match/beat their AC to threaten a crit, regardless of your threat range.

You're using circular logic here. There's an assumption that homebrew or third party are bad because they aren't definitely good, but that's ludicrous; first party is 100% identical. Look at time of magic, ToB errata, rules compendium, and lots of bits and bobs here and there.

If we are going to work on the assumption that homebrew is bad just because it is homebrew, we need to clearly label it as, like, your opinion, maaan, or we need to actually delve into what makes something homebrew, what makes something bad, and whether this is causative, correlated, or coincidence. Relying on the emotional context of one's ideas to make a point seem valid is a sure fire way to trip up actual conversation into judgmental daisy chain self congratulation.

E: I think I misused circular logic or extrapolated far enough as to be meaningless, but it's the first expression that comes to mind and fits.

[Vhaidara]

Um...I didn't say anything about homebrew or third party being bad. I just said that they are essentially the same thing. I enjoy both of them greatly.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You're using circular logic here. There's an assumption that homebrew or third party are bad because they aren't definitely good, but that's ludicrous; first party is 100% identical. Look at time of magic, ToB errata, rules compendium, and lots of bits and bobs here and there.
The issue is less quality than acceptability. As others have mentioned, you're far more likely to get unbalanced first party material approved for a game than even the best homebrew.

The missing-on-low-rolls gets sidestepped by Lightning Mace, since that activates on a threat. If you miss, you essentially just try again. If you hit, you also hit again. One-stop infinite attacks in this case.

[Vhaidara]

The missing-on-low-rolls gets sidestepped by Lightning Mace, since that activates on a threat. If you miss, you essentially just try again. If you hit, you also hit again. One-stop infinite attacks in this case.

Nope.

Any attack roll that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat.
charmin

[Grod_The_Giant]

Nope.
Whoops. I stand corrected.

[Magma Armor0]

Add that luck feat from complete scoundrel for luck rerolls to change a nat 1 to a nat 20. On phone atm, or id look it up myself. Requires that you have 1 luck feat already, but thats doable.

[Vhaidara]

Add that luck feat from complete scoundrel for luck rerolls to change a nat 1 to a nat 20. On phone atm, or id look it up myself. Requires that you have 1 luck feat already, but thats doable.

Grab one that just lets you reroll an attack roll.

And the feat is Better Lucky than Good.

[Iwasforger03]

What is laminated steel from and what does it do exactly?
Also pathfinder mythic Champion path ability Always a Chance. Nat 1 is not an automatic miss.

[Khedrac]

It's also worth remembering that the Book of Vile Darkness is 3.0 not 3. so material from it is subject to DM approval/modification for use in a 3.5 game...

[mashlagoo1982]

Whoops. I stand corrected.

This is one of those little quirks with how crits work that I love.

Rolling within the range of a crit is automatically a hit (AC, what AC?). The 2nd roll is just to confirm if the hit is actually a crit (Oh, that AC).

If one was to maximize this, how would it be done?

Is there a build already created that focuses on max crit range (only using 3.5 content release by WotC) but focuses on regular damage (not crit damage)?

Meaning, this character would sacrifice much of their abilities to maximize their crit threat range and the damage deal on a failed roll to confirm the crit.

[Deadline]

This is one of those little quirks with how crits work that I love.

Rolling within the range of a crit is automatically a hit (AC, what AC?).

The bolded part is not accurate.

[MilesTiden]

You aren't going to find any builds focusing on that, because that's not how it works. :smalltongue: Only a natural 20 is an automatic hit.

[Jeraa]

Rolling within the range of a crit is automatically a hit (AC, what AC?). The 2nd roll is just to confirm if the hit is actually a crit (Oh, that AC).

Only Natural 20s are automatic hits. Nothing else. A weapons crit range has nothing to do with that at all.


Automatic Misses and Hits

A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit.

[mashlagoo1982]

The bolded part is not accurate.

I stand corrected. I thought the following text supported my statement.

PHB 140
Critical Hits
When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows a 20) you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a threat.

I took this to mean that any crit (even extended ranged crits) will bypass AC.

I didn't notice the exceptions part beyond that...

Increased Threat Range
... a roll of lower than 20 is not an automatic hit.:smallfrown:

[Chronos]

If your goal is just to have fun in the game, then whether something is homebrew or official is basically irrelevant. If you find some particular piece of homebrew is more fun than some official content, then by all means use the homebrew and ignore the official content.

But if your goal is to try to get some in-game number as large as possible, then whether something is homebrew or official is absolutely relevant, because there's always going to be some other homebrew you're not using that will give even bigger numbers.

[SiuiS]

The issue is less quality than acceptability. As others have mentioned, you're far more likely to get unbalanced first party material approved for a game than even the best homebrew.

The missing-on-low-rolls gets sidestepped by Lightning Mace, since that activates on a threat. If you miss, you essentially just try again. If you hit, you also hit again. One-stop infinite attacks in this case.

That's no different than a standard lightning mace build. The difference I propose is getting one free attack on a threat and two free attacks on a hit instead of one each. It's an extra infinite path to widen the fractal pattern.


It's also worth remembering that the Book of Vile Darkness is 3.0 not 3. so material from it is subject to DM approval/modification for use in a 3.5 game...

Not true. 3.0 material is all legit unless it was overwritten or it does not work anymore (skills and feats removed, etc.), making all 3.0 material standard 3.5 material. The book of vile darkness was also a transitional book and written, partially, towards the 3.5 rules.

[Chronos]

Book of Vile Darkness was written partly towards the 3.5 rules, but not entirely. And one big thing that changed from 3.0 to 3.5 is that in the latter, it's a lot harder to get things that boost crit range to stack.