Alter Self limitation

[AngelOfFaith]

Alter Self [Transmutation]2 states "You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form.". As I play a human Sorcerer I assume that means I can change into humanoids only(max HD 5). Here are my questions:

Can I assume the form of a Monstrous Humanoid of 5 HD or lower?

Why can I find Dwarf Ancestor from MMIV among the suggested forms to take within many of the threads discussing this spell? The description I'm reading states that creature is a native outsider... Does that mean I can become one if I was an Aasimar but not as a human?

[Ashtagon]

Alter Self [Transmutation]2 states "You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form.". As I play a human Sorcerer I assume that means I can change into humanoids only(max HD 5). Here are my questions:

Can I assume the form of a Monstrous Humanoid of 5 HD or lower?

By RAW, no, since Humanoid != Monstrous Humanoid.


Why can I find Dwarf Ancestor from MMIV among the suggested forms to take within many of the threads discussing this spell? The description I'm reading states that creature is a native outsider... Does that mean I can become one if I was an Aasimar but not as a human?

Yes, you'd need to have the Outsider type before casting the spell to allow you to use the spell to become a dwarf ancestor. Note that you would not gain the supernatural abilities of that creature. You also retain your own hit points and attack bonus. Alter self isn't as good as some people think it is for tanking. You'd get the natural AC bonus though, which is good.

[heavyfuel]

There's a mini-handbook dedicated to the spell over at BG: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=343.0

It gives you a bunch of cool stuff to alter into, but the answer to your questions are indeed as Ashtagon answered.

[AngelOfFaith]

A sad situation to be in...
If I may be as lazy as to ask of you to try and name some humanoids of 5 HD or lower that have high natural armor. Seeing as I can not rely on dwarven ancestors.

[Fouredged Sword]

Troglodyte (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troglodyte.htm) is generally the go to for natural armor with alter self. It's a nice simple +6.

[Darrin]

Troglodyte (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troglodyte.htm) is generally the go to for natural armor with alter self. It's a nice simple +6.

I think Crucian (Miniatures Handbook or Sandstorm) has +8 NA, the highest of any humanoid.

There are a few low-level spells that can change your type:

aberrate (BoVD, Sor/Wiz 1)
aspect of the wolf (SC, Dru/Rgr 1)
essence of the dragon (RotD, Sor 2)

[WhamBamSam]

I think Crucian (Miniatures Handbook or Sandstorm) has +8 NA, the highest of any humanoid.

There are a few low-level spells that can change your type:

aberrate (BoVD, Sor/Wiz 1)
aspect of the wolf (SC, Dru/Rgr 1)
essence of the dragon (RotD, Sor 2)I've been trying to remember the name of Essence of the Dragon and what book it was in for a few weeks now, thank you.

Aberrate has a 'fiend' component which is tricky to ignore though. You probably need the Outsider (Evil) typing to cast it natively, though it might be possible to use a wand.

[heavyfuel]

A sad situation to be in...
If I may be as lazy as to ask of you to try and name some humanoids of 5 HD or lower that have high natural armor. Seeing as I can not rely on dwarven ancestors.

Hence the handbook I posted earlier. It contains pretty much every humanoid form below 5HD including Natural Armor, Landspeed, and other things as well

[AngelOfFaith]

It does indeed. I was just confused because it contained the ancients as well. Should have given it a better look.
Thanks for the tips - guess I'll be a gross turtle reptile creature.

[JDL]

The better option for (ab)using Alter Self is to boost your mobility instead of your AC. Getting flight at level 3 pretty much means you own any encounter that's not loaded with ranged attackers. Avariel (Races of Faerun, 50 ft. average fly speed) are a LA +3 race of elves with wings and an absolutely stupid good form to use. Flight for half an hour? That's worth a third level spell slot. Flight means you have time to zip off, buff up and pop back to screw with the battle.

The even cheesier way of abusing this spell is with a character who is an Outsider type. The Otherworldly regional feat (Player's Guide to Faerun) is a good way to access this, as are races like Tiefling or Aasimar if you're willing to pay the LA +1 price. In exchange you get massive selection with Alter Self and, later, Polymorph. Imagine Air Mephit form and Mage Armor. That's AC 21 for half an hour there along with 60 ft. perfect fly speed on a level 3 Wizard. Or if you absolutely must tank the boss, a Minor Xorn form with Mage Armor stands at 27 AC for half an hour. Absolutely nothing at that level will be able to hit you on an attack roll less than 20 with AC like that. It's a broken, insanely useful spell, and if your DM lets you get away with playing an Outsider you simply will not have anything better you could prepare at this level.

[Forrestfire]

Personally, my favorite use of Alter Self is on warforged. Outsider type gets you a lot of neat stuff, but the existence of Animated Objects and Astral Constructs as creatures with statistic blocks, they're technically valid for Alter Self. You can get up to Large Animated Objects and Level 4 Astral Constructs, giving you a nice variety of possible shapes to freeform shapeshift into.

It's strong, but not especially overpowered (although the Level 4 Astral Construct, available at CL 5, has phenomenal combat stats) because of the hit die cap, and more importantly, it's really cool. You can play as a transformer! Awesome! :smallbiggrin:

[AngelOfFaith]

Yeah, I have a small list of things to turn into. One for flying, one for burrowing, one for swimming etc. But I really don't want to use it on a regular basis. My DM is OK with overpowered stuff as long as it's from a rule book but that's what I'm afraid of. I think he's been throwing some stuff a bit over our level at us and we've been doing good so I'm scared that if we start optimizing he'll throw even more stuff at us and three succubi and a vrok are enough for now. That's why I'm shying away from polymorph for now even though I can take it.