Moving Big Stat Adjustments to the Classes

[Ziegander]

For example, in 5e races all have big and little stat boosts (with the exception of humans), a +2 and one or more +1s. As it has always done in the past, this essentially locks out certain races from being good at certain classes. Yes, one could roll up a Halfling Barbarian, but it just doesn't make as much sense as Half-Orc Barbarian. But, by moving those +2 bonuses to the classes themselves, a huge stride is already made toward greater race variety between the classes. Suddenly, Tieflings aren't just Warlocks anymore.

For example:

Dwarf: +1 Constitution. Hill Dwarf: +1 Constitution (total +2), Mountain Dwarf: +1 Strength.
Elf: +1 Dexterity. High Elf: +1 Intelligence, Wood Elf: +1 Constitution, Drow: +1 Charisma.
Halfling: +1 Dexterity. Lightfoot: Charisma, Stout: Constitution.
Human: +1 to all ability scores.

Barbarian: +2 Strength.
Bard: +2 Charisma.
Cleric: +2 Wisdom.
Fighter: +2 Strength or +2 Dexterity.

Maybe a rule could be instituted that says you can't start play with greater than +2 to any single attribute, so, for example, if a Mountain Dwarf became a Barbarian, his racial +1 Strength wouldn't stack with the big boost from his class. In such cases it might be appropriate to allow that missing +1 to apply to any ability score, or if nothing else, to the character's lowest ability score.

Thoughts?

[Xetheral]

As it has always done in the past, this essentially locks out certain races from being good at certain classes. Yes, one could roll up a Halfling Barbarian, but it just doesn't make as much sense as Half-Orc Barbarian.

I'm not certain I agree with your premise. I'm still of the opinion that a +1 bonus on a d20 roll isn't that important. To put it another way, so long as one would be willing to spend a feat to trade the racial features of the "optimal" race for the "suboptimal" race, the trade is more than worthwhile.

[Ziegander]

I'm not certain I agree with your premise. I'm still of the opinion that a +1 bonus on a d20 roll isn't that important. To put it another way, so long as one would be willing to spend a feat to trade the racial features of the "optimal" race for the "suboptimal" race, the trade is more than worthwhile.

Fair enough, but how often do you, or other players you know, choose, say, an Elf Paladin over a Half-Elf Paladin? Or a Half-Orc Sorcerer over a Dragonborn?

[Sudokori]

This actually has a good premise for it. A lvl one fighter wasn't some smuck who picked up a sword and shield the day before and started swinging. They had training beforehand to hone abilities. Also it makes those stereotypes about how all barbarians are half-orcs and all rouges are halflings and how all clerics are elfs and etc not so true anymore. So yeah, I agree with this.

Wait. Does this bonus only apply to the first class that's picked or all multiclassing classes too? Because it it does with multiclassing then we'll have a serious problem with munchkinism and power gaming.

[Ziegander]

This actually has a good premise for it. A lvl one fighter wasn't some smuck who picked up a sword and shield the day before and started swinging. They had training beforehand to hone abilities. Also it makes those stereotypes about how all barbarians are half-orcs and all rouges are halflings and how all clerics are elfs and etc not so true anymore. So yeah, I agree with this.

Wait. Does this bonus only apply to the first class that's picked or all multiclassing classes too? Because it it does with multiclassing then we'll have a serious problem with munchkinism and power gaming.

It would have to apply only to the first level. Just like not all proficiencies are gained when multiclassing, these boosts would not be gained when multiclassing.

[Xetheral]

Fair enough, but how often do you, or other players you know, choose, say, an Elf Paladin over a Half-Elf Paladin? Or a Half-Orc Sorcerer over a Dragonborn?

I dont have enough experience yet with 5e to have a good sense for how often it happens. In my 3.5 games in a 6 person party I'd usually have 1 player who picked a race for flavor, 1 who played an elf regardless of the character, 1 who picked based on stat bonuses, and everyone else played a human (or a half-elf, once I gave them a bonus feat too). This was a pretty reliable pattern, even with different players over the years.

[Totema]

I've seen proposed here, more than a few times, a houserule that simply eliminates racial ability score boosts and allows players to allocate a modest bonus to whatever score(s) they want upon chargen. That sounds fairly in the same spirit as your rule, doesn't it?

[themaque]

Fair enough, but how often do you, or other players you know, choose, say, an Elf Paladin over a Half-Elf Paladin? Or a Half-Orc Sorcerer over a Dragonborn?

Actually, All the time really. It just depends if your playing a game or telling a story. Nothing wrong with either.

Since no race get's an actual PENALTY to stats anymore, No race is BAD at any class anymore. Some may be better suited, but then you get into style of play issues.

then how do you decide what class get's what skill? Sure some have easy answers, Wizards want Int. But what about a fighter who could go Dex OR Str? Humans who at one point got a little bit of everything?

I think a good homebrew suggestion I read in another thread, if you want to take away race bonuses, is just give EVERYONE a +2 and a +1 at their choice.

[Demonic Spoon]

I think the current system is in place to promote meaningful differences between races. Different races being suited to different classes helps give those races flavor, rather than all races being equally good at everything.

This can go too far, and certainly you don't want to do too much pigeonholing. However, wouldn't it seem a bit silly if halfling barbarians were as or more common than human or halforc barbarians, at least based on standard lore?

For reasons mentioned you'll see the occasional halfling barbarian, but they're the exception.

Many times, a race might not fit the stereotype of a class, but can still work well. Elves aren't great Strength fighters, but they would make good DEX fighters or eldritch knights.



That said, if you want stat bonuses to play less of a role, this seems like a good way to do it. I'd be leery of allowing someone to stack +3 from race + class, though. Then the new optimal build is 18 in your primary stat from point buy.