PCs vs PCs - whats the CR?

[LentilNinja]

So when DMing I've hit a problem. The book states that, if a monster has CR 4 a group of four level 4 PCs should match up to him. This leads me to believe that a PC's CR is worth a quarter of his level (so a level 1 PC has a CR of 0.25).

So, heres my issue. If I make a PC for the party to fight (lets say a 10th level Fighter vs a ECL 10 party), do I make one? Or four?

And if the answer is four, what is it about a monster with like 10 HD to have CR 10 but be a fight for FOUR level 10 adventurers? Just seems odd to me, is all.

EDIT: Solved. I was being silly. Heres why:

This is the problem with your logic. CRs are not linear. If you put four monsters of CR 4 together, they have Encounter Level 8, not Encounter Level 16. Why should the same be different for PCs?


An important thing to realize is that CR = EPL isn't an encounter where each side has an equal chance to win. The PCs are generally assumed to win such encounters with 25% expenditure of daily resources and no major risk of death.

When CR = EPL + 4 is when each group is supposed to have an equal chance of winning. If a part of level 14s were to fight themselves, the encounter would actually be CR 18.

All of this is of course assuming the CR system actually works. This is usually not the case in practice.

[Vhaidara]

CR = Level.

A CR 4 encounter should use up 25% of a party's resources. So, a level 5 wizard should use up 25% of the standard party's resources (Standard meaning Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue).

Note that this assume equal tactics and optimization, and, more importantly, assumes that the classes are balanced against each other.

[Urpriest]

So when DMing I've hit a problem. The book states that, if a monster has CR 4 a group of four level 4 PCs should match up to him. This leads me to believe that a PC's CR is worth a quarter of his level (so a level 1 PC has a CR of 0.25).

So, heres my issue. If I make a PC for the party to fight (lets say a 10th level Fighter vs a ECL 10 party), do I make one? Or four?

And if the answer is four, what is it about a monster with like 10 HD to have CR 10 but be a fight for FOUR level 10 adventurers? Just seems odd to me, is all.

This is the problem with your logic. CRs are not linear. If you put four monsters of CR 4 together, they have Encounter Level 8, not Encounter Level 16. Why should the same be different for PCs?

[Zanos]

An important thing to realize is that CR = EPL isn't an encounter where each side has an equal chance to win. The PCs are generally assumed to win such encounters with 25% expenditure of daily resources and no major risk of death.

When CR = EPL + 4 is when each group is supposed to have an equal chance of winning. If a part of level 14s were to fight themselves, the encounter would actually be CR 18.

All of this is of course assuming the CR system actually works. This is usually not the case in practice.

[Urpriest]

An important thing to realize is that CR = EPL isn't an encounter where each side has an equal chance to win. The PCs are generally assumed to win such encounters with 25% expenditure of daily resources and no major risk of death.

When CR = EPL + 4 is when each group is supposed to have an equal chance of winning. If a part of level 14s were to fight themselves, the encounter would actually be CR 18.

All of this is of course assuming the CR system actually works. This is usually not the case in practice.

Just to be precise here, the encounter would have EL 18, not CR 18. Only individual monsters have CRs, encounters have Encounter Levels.

[Zanos]

Just to be precise here, the encounter would have EL 18, not CR 18. Only individual monsters have CRs, encounters have Encounter Levels.
Good point. I should also add that these assumptions are also based around a 4 person party, since having more or less modifies things significantly.

[LentilNinja]

Oh damn, I can't believe the blunder I've made. Too much overthought and not enough reading the book. Thanks, playground!

[atemu1234]

CR = Level.

A CR 4 encounter should use up 25% of a party's resources. So, a level 5 wizard should use up 25% of the standard party's resources (Standard meaning Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue).

Note that this assume equal tactics and optimization, and, more importantly, assumes that the classes are balanced against each other.

This, basically.

[awa]

I would point out then npcs tend to be weaker then pc because they have a lower wealth by level