RHoD in Eberron, advice

[Warlocknthewind]

I have read the Handbook for the Campaign, and read the Game Logs, but there are still some things I have yet to understand, and I was hoping if I anybody else sees these problems, or has explinationa for them.

My first issue doesn't have to do with Eberron, but with the general plotline. I fail to see a reason for Azar-Kul to want the Red Hand to Assault Elsir Vale (or wherehaveyou) so long before the ritual. All it does is attract attention to their actions, and let any possible heroes know how to foil the Sommoning Ritual. I, personally, would set the invasion of Elsir Vale come in the wake of the destruction wrought by Aspect of Tiamat. More dramatic, less casualties, and lets the Dark Queen p*ss directly of Pelorian (Dol'Aran) territory.

In Eberron, Dragons Nuke anything that threatens them, the world, or anhything dragony enough without being a Dragon. Why would they not simply dragonuke The Red Hand after it pokes one of its heads out at first?

Why does Koth have to suck so much? Why isn't he as good as other rank & file casters in the Red Hand?

Who thought that mounting Saarvith on Regi and demoliting their action economy was a good idea? I would mount him on a Leaped or a Razorfiend.

Why a NOT White Dragon?

If I were Tyrugan, I would have beaten my bratty son into his place and let him know who the boss truly is. High Wyrmlord or not, he would still be Big Daddy Blue Dragon Future King of the Vale, certain to outlive his mortal upstart son.

Where on Khorvaire would you place this campaign?

Whyat are a mob of Dar doing in a cult of Tiamat in the first place? Or would it be and more fluff appropriate for Eberron to simply have Spawn of Tiamat take the Goblinoids places (which is a very easy exercise) and have them come crawling out of Khyber wherever the plot places them the best?

I considered switching out the Wyrmlords for appropriately colored Spawn's Monstrous Humanoid (Green Zealout, Black Raider, Blue Godslayers, Red Arcaniss, White Hunter) and adding on some levels with their decent Hit Dice. Making the Lord's Half Dragon Rakshasa fits the setting very well, but I have trouble with other Rakshasa about, and where the Lord's of Dust could strike.

Maybe I am just highly nitpicky DM, but I pride myself on being able to provide valid details and reason for what's happening, not a "Kill 'em cause x!" motivatior.

Any facts I missed, fluff that could improve the idea, or conjectures about why something by is, I would love to hear it. I want this to be as much a complete game as possible.

[(Un)Inspired]

I cannot answer all your questions. However, I believe that Azar-Kul sets the army out before the ritual because he has to. It's hard, if not impossible to keep an army the size of the hoard together when it's not on the march. He has to send the out conquering immediately or else infighting and tension would tear it apart.

Koth sucks way less with the addition of practiced spellcaster and improved familiar as feats. He sucks innately because WotC npcs always choke on butt.

Maybe their wasn't a white dragon to keep the pcs guessing?

I don't think tyrgarun can take an 11 level cleric. If you're wondering why he didn't beat down Azar-Kul when he was young then I would assume it was because he wasn't directly involved with raising the kid. They probably only met up again recently.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not sure why they didn't use a White Dragon, the Half-fiend Behir is CR 9 and a Young Adult White Dragon is CR 8, while an Adult one is 10; so my guess is that they thought it would either be too weak or too strong. But then again I'm just guessing.

[Faily]

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but I will give my opinion on it (as I just started Red Hand of Doom today in Pathfinder, which I adapted to Mystara).

1. I agree with (Un)Inspired, but I also think that it has to due with Tiamat being a Goddess of Destruction. I believe that causing as much pain, suffering and destruction on a big scale, such as attacking the Elsir Vale, is a part of the ritual itself. In my adaption to Mystara, Tiamat was made into a Demon Overlord who seeks to become an Entropy Immortal with the backing of Thanatos, hence a huge level of destruction is needed to bring everything to fruition.

2. I'm a bit shaky on the Dragons, Prophecy and Agents of Argonessen, but it could simply be that they might've been busy with something else, divine interference to "cloud their vision" (kinda like what happened in the prequel trilogy of Star Wars and how Yoda felt the Dark Side clouded the future for him), or that they expected the heroes to fix things.

3. I personally think mounting Saarvith on Regiarix was a cool move. A lot of the Wyrmlords serve as counterparts to the "classic" PC models; Koth is the caster, Saarvith is the scout/ranger, Ulwa is the party-face, general-dude I don't remember right now is the melee-type, and lastly Azarr-Kull is the divine caster and party leader. If Regiarix sticks with Flyby Attacks, Saarvith can always stay safely away from getting into melee with the party and can only be taken down by spells and ranged, while he harries them with arrows. In 3.5, giving him Scout instead of Ranger could've worked if you play pre-errata of Skirmish only working if you move with your own efforts makes him hella scary. Regiarix is just one of the Dragons that needs to be bumped up an age category at least.

4. I thought too "why no White Dragon?!". Then I looked at CR-equal White Dragons compared to the Half-Fiend Behir, and just found that a White Dragon in that Age Category, no matter what the CR says, will *not* be scary to the party and will fight completely differently from the original Varanthian. I tried mixing the White Dragon with Half-Fiend, but it just was... not good enough. Even a non-optimized party like my players would've breezed through it. What I've done instead is:
- taken the same path as the GM who ran me through RHoD and made Varanthian into a Half-Dragon (White) Behir instead.
- and then had the father of said Half-Dragon Behir working off-camera, keeping allied reinforcements occupied from coming too soon to aid Elsir Vale. With magic in existence and at least two high level casters in Brindol, as well as in Dennovar, I saw no reason why they wouldn't get the message of a crisis to allies quickly, so I added that off-screen, a Great Wyrm White Dragon is keeping the reinforcements occupied until the ritual is complete.

5. Honestly, I don't think Tyrgarun really cared much for Azurr-Kull until he showed that he was suddenly commanding a great hobgoblin army in the name of Tiamat. IMO, Tyrgarun is not *that* old yet, but still mature enough to let his lesser son have his moment in the sun... until Tiamat devours him and the rest of the hobgoblins. Tyrgarun, to me, is depicted as being sly and patient, and he's just fine with letting these short-lived creatures run about and think they rule for a short span of time.

6. I must pass on this one. My Eberron geography sucks.

7. Again, Eberron is not my specialty, but I personally felt that the Red Hand could be something like a corrupted and fallen sect of the Cult of the Dragon Below? Giving the Fane a link into Khyber is a good idea though, from where we get the Spawn of Tiamat.

8. Not sure if I would change the Wyrmlords into Raksasha, tbh. One of the reasons the Red Hand manage to catch the Vale by so much surprise is that small raiding parties of goblinoids were not unknown to the people living there, and they were also used to there being warring tribes of goblinoids fighting it out (and the citizens of the Vale sometimes getting caught in the crossfire). While Hobgoblins don't nescessarily fit as the savage mountain tribes in Eberron, due to their pride over the fallen Dakhaani Empire, you could perhaps refluff Rhest and/or Vraath-keep to have been ancient outposts of the Dakhaani Empire which the Hobgoblins abandoned due to attack from Giants (as in Vraath-keep history), and now they've returned to reclaim what they believe is theirs (the Elsir Vale), and found it occupied with weak humans, elves and halflings. Just an idea. ^_^
Raksasha though are just much more... I dunno, dangerous, than Hobgoblins, and thus them being spotted in force out and about would raise alarms much earlier.


I personally think all questions are quite valid. RHoD is, mechanically, a very sound scenario, but it does need tweaks here and there to better handle a decent group of PCs. The fluff is almost the most important thing to tweak though. :smallbiggrin: I know someone posted a month ago or so about refluffing RHoD in Eberron into an invasion of Warforgeds rather than goblinoids/dragons.


EDIT: Ooops! I overlooked the question about Koth. Yeah, echoing that WoTC NPC blow monkey-buttocks and he was one of the Wyrmlords I re-worked the most. To make him fit in better with the dragon of his chapter, I gave him Draconic (Green) Sorcerer bloodline, since it's in Pathfinder, and gave him 2 levels of Dragon Disciple to buff him up to be more on par with the other Wyrmlords. Sorc6/Dragon Disciple 2 didn't affect his level of spell, which matches the party at that point, but it gives a little bit more survivability and fluff, as well as cool-factor. Personally, I suspect Koth was Azurr-Kull's childhood buddy who just latched onto the Wyrm-gang all the way until he was made Wyrmlord, just so that they could get him off his back. Though I will give Koth cred for being very charismatic, which might make him a good leader for the scouting party?

[Kymme]

Once upon a time, there was a dude named Aslancross. He DM'd a RHoD game set in Eberron. I read it. It was the bees knees. He set the game in Breland, not far from the Mournland. Here's a link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?110022-3-5-An-Eberron-flavored-Red-Hand-of-Doom-Campaign-Journal) to his journal.

[Kol Korran]

I kniow a bit of Eberron, but less about the RHoD. I have soem ideas though.
First of all, check the link to Aslan Cross' log above. It really is extensive and he has given a LOT of thought on placing it in Eberron specifically.



My first issue doesn't have to do with Eberron, but with the general plotline. I fail to see a reason for Azar-Kul to want the Red Hand to Assault Elsir Vale (or wherehaveyou) so long before the ritual. All it does is attract attention to their actions, and let any possible heroes know how to foil the Sommoning Ritual. I, personally, would set the invasion of Elsir Vale come in the wake of the destruction wrought by Aspect of Tiamat. More dramatic, less casualties, and lets the Dark Queen p*ss directly of Pelorian (Dol'Aran) territory.
Not everyone is an utterly efficient strategist, and there may have been other constraints other than the ritual for Tiamat. Some ideas for example:
- You've amassed an army, but now the army wants to be active. Plus- they hate those humans in the vale! They want to prove their mettle, gain honor in combat and what not, NOW! So they are unleashed.
- Perhaps Azar-Kul wants even more goblinoids in his army, and thus needs to show the might of his troops to gather more forces. Time is precious, as timing is everything. If he waits too much, he may seem weak to other tribes, so he needs to set an example, and fast!
- Supplies: The army will eat up it's own if he doesn't get more, while waiting for the ritual to be complete. The best place to raid for logn term supplies is the main city of the Elsir Vale. Raiding we shall go!
- Hate, pure hate: Azar-Kul just HATES Elsir Vale, and so once he has an army that he is confident with, his hate get the better of him and send it for a sure assault (And he would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling PCs! :smalltongue:)
- Sacrifice: Getting so many people slaughtered/ captured, or maybe sacrificing the great loot/ magic items in the vale might prove to hasten Tiamat's coming, or her strength, or somehow make it better.
- It's the way of Tiamat: As mentioned by posters before- this could just very well be a behaviour fit for a cult of Tiamat- prideful, destructive, arrogant and sure of their power (Damn! They got dragons on their side!)


In Eberron, Dragons Nuke anything that threatens them, the world, or anhything dragony enough without being a Dragon. Why would they not simply dragonuke The Red Hand after it pokes one of its heads out at first?Dragons nuked Xen'dric, but only ONCE! And they are sorry they have done it ever since (80,000 years ago). The dragons have since secluded themselves in Argonessen and decided to mostly cut themselves of the world. Only The Chamber works as an active part in the world, and some rogue dragons (Such as the dragons working for Tiamat). The Dragons, while powerful, are not omniscient, and generally really downplay the importance of Khorvaire as a whole. They are far too busy with inside politics, and matters beyond this place.

Had they learned that someone is trying to wake Tiamat? (In Eberron she is trapped in Argonessen in the Pit of Sorrows. For more about dragons and Tiamat read "Dragons of Eberron"), then they WOULD nuke Khorvaire. An interesting twist (I think Aslan used it), is that they do get word. But it takes them time to prepare , and they intend to do this in the last possible minute (Like on the last 1-2 days). So the party now has a worse deadline- they have to stop the ritual in order to stop the dragons coming! :smalleek:


If I were Tyrugan, I would have beaten my bratty son into his place and let him know who the boss truly is. High Wyrmlord or not, he would still be Big Daddy Blue Dragon Future King of the Vale, certain to outlive his mortal upstart son. I'm with Faily on this one- Sly and patient. Plus, The hobgoblin get the respect of the other hobgoblins, AND he knows how to summon Tiamat, something that Tyrugan doesn't know (And if I remember correctly, doesn't have enough magical power)


Where on Khorvaire would you place this campaign?Check Aslan Cross log. If I remember correctly he put it in a very particular spot- Near Vathirod, in the very east of Breland, near the Mournland. The Goblinoids came from the south (Darguun) to claim more land (Some of the tribes not align with Rhukaan Draal). Aslan Cross has more explanations as to the placing.


Whyat are a mob of Dar doing in a cult of Tiamat in the first place? Or would it be and more fluff appropriate for Eberron to simply have Spawn of Tiamat take the Goblinoids places (which is a very easy exercise) and have them come crawling out of Khyber wherever the plot places them the best? The Dar are now on the rise. Some seek civilization, many more want war and conquest. (We're right after the last war after all). And for that they need one main thing- power. And what is a greater symbol of power than a destructive dragon! If Azar-Kul shows up with a few dragons, and a promise that they will share in the dragons power, if they will serve them, and then forge a great kingdom under them, something to rival Dhakaan of old! They would rally, they would worship, they would gather.

I know very little of the specific stats of enemies, dragons and wyrmlords. I suggest checking The Red Hand of Doom Handbook for DMs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?171284-The-3-5-Red-Hand-Of-Doom-Handbook-for-DMs-Major-spoilers!-WIP-PEACH!&highlight=red+hand+of+doom+handbook) on how to improve the mechanical parts of the game, to make it more challenging.

Good luck to you!

[Warlocknthewind]

As I said in OP, I have read both the Handbook and the adventure set in Eberron. There were just some inconsistencies I wanted made clear, and they have for the most part.

Instead of pitting the party against a Dragon they could mop with, they develeoped a more CR appropriate creature than a White.

Koth us good with only minor adjustments.

Saarvith built as a swift Hunter makes a good tag team with Regiarix, it's just unfortunate to me how mounted combat impedes actions.

I have already re-statted the Rank & File members of the horde as various Tome of Battle classes.

I think that a mob of goblinoids, even one such as the Red hand, wouldn't remain a threat too long , especially in Bredland. So, to solve these and a couple other plot holes, I am going to have the Goblinoids just be the first portion of Kul's plot, claiming they would take the world ransom against a new Age of Demons. He uses them to scout and infiltrate, so that he may preform his first ritual at the Dragon's Crown. This opens the Black Pit further, allowing a seemingly endless swarm of Spawn of Tiamat to sweep across to the south, to destroy Wroat and lay siege to Sharn. Taking Sharn would be a lengthly, costly ordeal for Kharn & Kul to undertake, but that isn't why they are there. They begin to excavate utilizing Bluespawn Tunnelers to enter Undersharn wherein lies an enourmous Kyhber Shard, containing a Half Dragon Rakshasa Rajah with the knowledge of how to open the seals to Tiamat's prison under Argonesson by breaking it's tethers elsewhere across Eberron. This moves the Fane, to a different continent, and the plotline further into the future, and opens for a roundabout unity between Breland and Darguun in defense against the monstrous cavalcade.

The Wyrmlords could be draconic, born with the template and assuring their place as a Wyrmlord in the Draconic Prophecy.

Doesn't the Silver Flame have something to do with her imprisonment? Would its destruction be necessary? Because I suppose the Annulus could be tossed into the mix as a wildcard MacGuffin button.

[shizukanashi]

Sorry I am late to the party. I have heard of games od RHoD set in Thrane using the map of Thrane. Drellin's Ferry becomes fort Light. Brindol becomes Sigilstar, and Flamekeep is both Dennovar and The Fane. This plays on my idea (ignoring that Tiamat is in fact imprisoned in Argonnessen) that the Flame is Both the the Demon/Dragon Tiamat and the Coutl Bahamut in one entity (read the origins of the silver flame). Flamekeep is Azar-Kuls goal and freeing Tiamat from the Flame is his goal.

This solves your first question of why he is attacking without the ceremony being completed (because the ceremony has to be completed in Flamekeep) and also where to set the game.