Magic Circlel: does it protect the trapped creature?

[sorcererlover]

This has been mentioned several times before, but I never got a general consensus.


This spell has an alternative version that you may choose when casting it. A magic circle against evil can be focused inward rather than outward. When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle. The creature cannot cross the circle’s boundaries. If a creature too large to fit into the spell’s area is the subject of the spell, the spell acts as a normal protection from evil spell for that creature only.

To me, this sounds like the creature gains protection from evil only when it is summoned on a circle too small. The protection effect is only mentioned at the end, and after the "If a creature is too large" clause.

so, to clarify "If this happens, then the spell acts like this" is how I'm reading it.

Fluff wise, the protection effect is the one that blocks the creature. So normal usage, the barrier this spell creates keep the creatures outside, so the guy inside is "protected", but the creature can penetrate the barrier with various saves. Likewise if the circle is bound inward, the barrier this spell creates keeps the creature inside thus everyone outside is protected, and unlike the 1st version, the creature can't do anything to penetrate the barrier. If the creature is too large for the circle, the whole thing fails and backfires, giving the creature protection.

This is what I think anyway. So now that you know how I view this matter, could someone explain their side of the argument both mechanically and fluff wise very clearly?

[rockdeworld]

Using Magic Circle Against Evil as the base spell:

All creatures within the area gain the effects of a protection from evil spell, and no nongood summoned creatures can enter the area either. You must overcome a creature’s spell resistance in order to keep it at bay (as in the third function of protection from evil), but the deflection and resistance bonuses and the protection from mental control apply regardless of enemies’ spell resistance.

This spell has an alternative version that you may choose when casting it. A magic circle against evil can be focused inward rather than outward. When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle. The creature cannot cross the circle’s boundaries. If a creature too large to fit into the spell’s area is the subject of the spell, the spell acts as a normal protection from evil spell for that creature only.
Emphasis mine.

Mechanically, the interpretation based on the highlighted text is that there are 2 types of circles, with corresponding effects. Both types grant protection from evil to creatures inside the circle, but they also have an additional effect, based on their type:
i. outward: no nongood summoned creatures can enter the area
ii. inward: binds a nongood called creature

The last sentence in the quoted text grammatically supports this interpretation, because one reading of it implies that it grants Pro:Evil to everything in it regardless whether it's inward or outward.

Fluffwise, a magic circle against evil grants Pro:Evil to everything standing on it. If its power is focused out, it pushes evil out. If the power is focused in, it pushes evil to the center.

Edit: So to answer the topic question, yes. I suggest not casting an inward MCaE if you are evil (it won't affect your Charisma check, but will give +2 on the save against your preparatory Feeblemind).

[sorcererlover]

protection from evil to creatures inside the circle, but they also have an additional effect, based on their type:

Yeah, see, I'm having trouble understanding this part.

1st version, the barriers push out so nothing can come in. Everyone inside gains protection from evil.
2nd version, the barriers push in, so nothing can come out. No mention of protection from evil in the 2nd version except at the end, after it says when the circle failed.

Your fluff kind of makes sense to me, but I'm not getting the part that those who stand on the circle get protection from evil when its bound inward...

So where does it say when bound inward the creature inside gain protection from evil? I'm sorry, it seems everyone keeps saying the samething to me and I just keep missing it...

Are you saying the first sentence "All creatures within the area gain the effects of a protection from evil spell" carries over to the alternate version as well?

[rockdeworld]

Yes extra characters

[JDL]

This also means that you cannot use Enchantment (Charm) or Enchantment (Compulsion) effects to force a creature you've called to agree to your demands. The creature inside the circle is immune to the effects of these spells. This prevents loopholes such as summoning creatures and then using Geas to force them to obey.

[RoboEmperor]

This also means that you cannot use Enchantment (Charm) or Enchantment (Compulsion) effects to force a creature you've called to agree to your demands. The creature inside the circle is immune to the effects of these spells. This prevents loopholes such as summoning creatures and then using Geas to force them to obey.

If you can use charm or compulsion effects on the creature, why would you need it to agree to your demands? Just cast one and break the circle. That way you can keep renewing the geas instead of it tping away after 1day/level.

In any case I disagree with rockdeworld. Stuff in the 1st paragraph are not included in the 2nd paragraph, since 2nd paragraph is 2nd version, 1st paragraph is 1st version of the spell. Trapped creature is not protected, especially since most of the stuff in the 1st paragraph can't happen in the alternate version.


You must overcome a creature’s spell resistance in order to keep it at bay (as in the third function of protection from evil),

which means in the 1st version, an enemy can try infinite times to overcome the protection via spell resistance and touch you, where as the trap version is only 1 attempt per day. Both versions are separate. According to rockdeworld's logic, a creature too big for the circle should stop being protected when it stops touching the circle, but that's not the case. I believe your fluff reasons in your OP are sound.

In addition, creatures inside the circle are protected when the circle is focused outward. That means, when it's focused inward, creatures inside the circle are NOT protected. Simple logic using opposites.

But in any case, don't expect to change anyone's minds in this issue, since none of these arguments will change a DM's mind once its made up. I'm sure I can't change rockdeworld's opinion, and he can't change mine in short of an errata or official ruling.

I suspect however, most people say the bound creature is protected for balance issues, and if given the choice, would definitely rule the way that's weaker to the player. I noticed that a DM's opinion of planar binding is directly related to the DM's ruling of this spell. If the DM doesn't mind free planar bound creatures, they don't say the circle is protected. If DM is absolutely against free planar bound creatures, they will say the called creature is protected. So always assume your DM is gonna rule the protected version, and setup contingencies for that.