Multiclass Psionics Question

[Yogibear41]

If I am a 4th level psion, and also a 10th level warmind, and I have a power that is common to both lists, say Vigor. Do I have to manifest it at the level of the class that granted it, or can I use the higher of the two manifester levels to determine how much I can augment it.

Say I learned Vigor as one of my 1st level psion powers, would I be stuck manifesting it at a maximum of 4 pps spent because of my Psion Manifester level, or could I manifest it at 10PP spent because while I did not learn it from my Warmind powers known, it is common to both lists, or would I need to spend one of my Warmind Powers known on the same power to be able to manifest it at the higher manifester level?

[Chronos]

If you have it as a psion power, then you manifest it as a psion, using your psion manifester level.

[Feint's End]

If you have it as a psion power, then you manifest it as a psion, using your psion manifester level.

This. Same rule as for casters.

It is of note however that you can use power points from different classes to manifest powers from the same class.

[Yogibear41]

Thought so, but hoped there was some obscure rule that I had missed. :smallannoyed:

[Rubik]

Thought so, but hoped there was some obscure rule that I had missed. :smallannoyed:Well, there kind of is, but you have to use a power stone for it. 25 gp, or 12.5 gp if you craft it using your psion power known.

According to CPsi, if you have a power stone of Vigor, you can spend your own power points to manifest it at your manifester level, but it still wipes the stone. Since you can manifest Vigor as a war mind, you can use your war mind manifester level to manifest from the stone -- 10 pp for 50 temp hp for 10 minutes.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Wipe it from your mind somehow.

Find another Psion Warmind.

Get them to grant you Vigor via Psychic Chirugery.

????

profit Hitpoints!

[Mehangel]

If you need to unlearn Vigor, you can easily do so with the Psionic Universal Item: Map of the Mind which allows the wielder to manifest "Psychic Reformation"

[Username.]

If I am a 4th level psion, and also a 10th level warmind, and I have a power that is common to both lists, say Vigor. Do I have to manifest it at the level of the class that granted it, or can I use the higher of the two manifester levels to determine how much I can augment it.

The manifester level is determined by the presence of a power on a class power list. Note that if this were not the case, manifesting psionic powers that are known by others could present impossible results. For example, a psywar 7/psion 13 who, not knowing Vigor, manifests Vigor from the mind of another character, would have no way of determining the manifester level of Vigor as the power exists on both lists.

[Tohsaka Rin]

That's... Why you seek out someone to give it to you from a specific list.

Because then you get that classes version of the power.

[Rubik]

The manifester level is determined by the presence of a power on a class power list. Note that if this were not the case, manifesting psionic powers that are known by others could present impossible results. For example, a psywar 7/psion 13 who, not knowing Vigor, manifests Vigor from the mind of another character, would have no way of determining the manifester level of Vigor as the power exists on both lists....Huh. You might be able to manifest from your psion power known as a war mind as if you're a willing psionic creature, if you squint a bit.


Manifest an Unknown Power from Another’s Powers Known
A psionic character can attempt to manifest a power from a source other than his own knowledge (usually a power stone or another willing psionic character). To do so, the character must first make contact (a process similar to addressing a power stone, requiring a Psicraft check against a DC of 15 + the highest level power in the power stone or repertoire). A psionic character can make contact with only a willing psionic character or creature (unconscious creatures are considered willing, but not psionic characters under the effects of other immobilizing conditions). Characters who can’t use power stones for any reason are also banned from attempting to manifest powers from the knowledge of other psionic characters. Mental contact requires 1 full round of physical contact, which can provoke attacks of opportunity. Once contact is achieved, the character becomes aware of all the powers stored in the power stone or all the powers the other character knows up to the highest level of power the contactor knows himself.

Next, the psionic character must choose one of the powers and make a second Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level) to see if he understands it. If the power is not on his class list, he automatically fails this check.

Upon successfully making contact with another willing psionic character or creature and learning what he can of one power in particular, the character can immediately attempt to manifest that power even if he doesn’t know it (and assuming he has power points left for the day). He can attempt to manifest the power normally on his next turn, and he succeeds if he makes one additional Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level). He retains the ability to manifest the selected power for only 1 round. If he doesn’t manifest the power, fails the Psicraft check, or manifests a different power, he loses his chance to manifest that power for the day.

[Psyren]

"another character" is pretty straightforward - i.e., not you.

[Rubik]

"another character" is pretty straightforward - i.e., not you....So give your psicrystal Hidden Talent (Vigor)?

[Username.]

That's... Why you seek out someone to give it to you from a specific list.

Because then you get that classes version of the power.

That last sentence is meaningless. There is no such thing as a "classes{sic} version of the power." There are psionic powers. They are assigned to class lists. If a class enables you to manifest one or more psionic powers, said power(s) must be on the list for that class. If you know a power, you may manifest that power as per the manifesting ability of a given class if that power is on that class's list. There is nothing in the rules that allows for multiple versions of a power, or for a power to be learned from multiple sources. If such allowances are in the rules, please cite them here.

[Rubik]

That last sentence is meaningless. There is no such thing as a "classes{sic} version of the power." There are psionic powers. They are assigned to class lists. If a class enables you to manifest one or more psionic powers, said power(s) must be on the list for that class. If you know a power, you may manifest that power as per the manifesting ability of a given class if that power is on that class's list. There is nothing in the rules that allows for multiple versions of a power, or for a power to be learned from multiple sources. If such allowances are in the rules, please cite them here.Both Psychic Reformation and Expanded Knowledge allow you to nab powers off of lists other than your own. If those lists happen to have that power at a lower level than another list (including yours), you get the lower level version of that power.

[edit] Also, an erudite can do something similar. A StP erudite can also pull powers from arcane lists at a lower level, as well. See: bard, trapsmith, et al.

[Username.]

Both Psychic Reformation and Expanded Knowledge allow you to nab powers off of lists other than your own. If those lists happen to have that power at a lower level than another list (including yours), you get the lower level version of that power.

This begs the question. Assuming, incorrectly, there are two different versions of a power available to get, a feat which grants you such a power will get it. That's bootstrapping, not rules text. Worse, this un-cited, phantom text would still not diminish the ability of a class to manifest a power if said power is on its class list regardless of the source of the power, nor change the fact that such text would cause an impossible problem with using powers known to others, as described above. . . which is fine, since said text does not exist.