Redcloak's strategy... [spoiler?]

[BobTheDog]

... is rather useless.

Why? Well, let's take a look at Animate Dead (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsAtoB.html#animate-dead):

Reason #1 for not being very useful:

Material Component: You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse you intend to animate. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless, burned-out shells.

:haley: Hey, what are those guys doing down there, putting stuff in the corpses' mouths?

:durkon:Thor's Beard! Shoot 'em down, lass!

Reason #2:

Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit)

Let's assume that the evil Clerics do get around to casting Desecrate AND none of the city Clerics troubled themselves with casting Consecrate (highly unlikely).

So, assuming that the random evil Clerics will be around level 6 (minimum 5 to cast Animate Dead, some higher level), each will be getting 24 HD of undead. If they have no other 3rd level spell prepared AND the Death domain, that makes for 3 casts (with intervals for putting pearls in dead people's mouths or eyes), and a total of 72 HD.

Any good cleric about the same level as the evil ones can turn an average of ~15 HD of undead (assuming an average of 14 Cha), per turn attempt, and turn 5 times per day, to a total of 75 HD.

So, basically Redcloak is putting his clerics into shooting range of the defenders, for no real gain.

Reason #3:

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level.

If they make too many zombies, they'll lose control. But better yet, if the clerics get killed after making some zombies, the zombies'll be set loose, and (presumably) attack the closest targets. The hobbos.

Not a very smart move...

[Kreistor]

Reason #4:

A hobgoblin can become a 1HD Skeleton (7HP) or a 2HD Zombie (13HP) only. A Cure Serious Wounds (also a L3 spell) can heal 3D8+5= 18.5HP. Using the spell slot for healing is far more effective (and cheaper) than making zombies.

[13_CBS]

Alas, none of these limitations shall work, for the Giant wields the power of Plot.

[BobTheDog]

Actually,

it's 12 zombies (156 hp) vs. 1 healing...

[Kreistor]

Oh, forgot you can do more than 1 per casting. Well, it's not...

12 though. No more than 2HD/CL. Minimum CL is 5 for SL3. That's 10HD/casting, so 65HP, which is better than 18.5, so okay, Animate is still better. And it's only 5 zombies, which are 2HD each.

[The Extinguisher]

A few reasons:

1) Plot
2) from what we've seen, rasing dead requires very little effort
3) They are the bad guys
4) Plot > Rules
5) Most of the hobbos are dead anyway, so why bother healing one (which will get killed easily) when you can create many undead from the corpses and have them attack.
6) PLOT > RULES!

[BobTheDog]

Yes, Plot > Rules, but that should not simply mean that Animate Dead gets overpowered. It IS a D&D based universe, after all.

And Kreistor, I was supposing they'd also cast Desecrate, before raising undead. That doubles the power of Animate Dead.

[lord_khaine]

it does seem like that in OOTS-land its not required to hand out a fortune in black onyx to make a few zombies

[BobTheDog]

It seems the same in non-OotS-DnD. At least I've never seen anyone pay the gems cost. Heck, depending on the GM, not even the touch range is accounted for. The bad guy just waltzes in a room full of dead bodies, screams "Animate Dead!" (OotS style), and a bunch of skellies/zombies jump at the players... :P

[Threeshades]

Yes, Plot > Rules, but that should not simply mean that Animate Dead gets overpowered. It IS a D&D based universe, after all.

And Kreistor, I was supposing they'd also cast Desecrate, before raising undead. That doubles the power of Animate Dead.

Have you seen how many zombies (including a few zombie ogres=lots of HD), ghouls and ghasts (some more HD) Xykon was controlling back at Dorukan's gate? these (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0105.html) plus a few more spread through the dungeon (he also had a few more Zomgie ogres than shown i think)

And as far as i remember he didnt need to use up any materials to animate dead throughout the whole story.

[vbushido]

The black onyxes are probably less prohibitive a cost than speculated since they had the treasury of city to back up the army.

-----
There is no GAP in Rohan

[Dr._Weird]

If Haley shoots at the clerics, she's making herself vulnerable to hobbos coming up the ladders. Just becasue the clerics are raising the dead doesn't mean the hobgoblins are going to sit back and do nothing.

[Aereshaa_the_2nd]

Yes, Plot > Rules, but that should not simply mean that Animate Dead gets overpowered. It IS a D&D based universe, after all.

Yes, a dnd based universe. The black onyx wasn't required Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html).

[Dausuul]

It's worth noting that both Xykon and Redcloak have versions of animate dead that apparently disregard all Hit Die limitations, given the size of their zombie hordes and the fact that Redcloak was able to animate the silver dragon. Presumably Redcloak taught this version to his subordinate clerics.

[Innis Cabal]

its plot.....thats why the city will be over run and there will be a battle in the gem chamber

[BisectedBrioche]

It's worth noting that both Xykon and Redcloak have versions of animate dead that apparently disregard all Hit Die limitations, given the size of their zombie hordes and the fact that Redcloak was able to animate the silver dragon. Presumably Redcloak taught this version to his subordinate clerics.

Assuming they're a high enough level. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere in the comic that they have lower level spell casters than AC, and I'd assume the clerics are said casters.

[SolkaTruesilver]

It seems the same in non-OotS-DnD. At least I've never seen anyone pay the gems cost. Heck, depending on the GM, not even the touch range is accounted for. The bad guy just waltzes in a room full of dead bodies, screams "Animate Dead!" (OotS style), and a bunch of skellies/zombies jump at the players... :P

Same here. However, after arguments, the DM had the decency of considering that the animated zombies were PRONE when they began theirs undeath. So, lots of attacks of opportunities for us fighters! The damn ennemy cleric lost half his new allies just to make them battle-ready..

We still lost the battle. A superbuffed cleric against a group who had casters too stupid to prepare Dispel Magic...

[Dausuul]

Same here. However, after arguments, the DM had the decency of considering that the animated zombies were PRONE when they began theirs undeath. So, lots of attacks of opportunities for us fighters! The damn ennemy cleric lost half his new allies just to make them battle-ready..

We still lost the battle. A superbuffed cleric against a group who had casters too stupid to prepare Dispel Magic...

When I played a Dread Necromancer, you can be very sure that the DM enforced the material components.

Of course, knowing that this would be the case, I spent about 3,000 gp of my starting wealth on onyx... :)

[BobTheDog]

Well, the Giant seems to take into consideration the material cost for casting Raise Dead (we actually see the cleric guy holding the huge diamond). And perhaps Xykon has the Eschew Materials feat?

[the_tick_rules]

yeah, the hammer of the gian'ts will smashes right through the rule books.

[MinMax]

For all those who mentioned the healing, don't forget that Azure City has very few clerics at all, and most of which are not only below 3rd level, but all of which have a limit to turning. Also: the bad guys possess evil clerics, who can spontaneously heal undead. This makes boosting the undead very beneficial, as you can now heal your troops by losing, say, a magic weapon spell.

On top of that, Evil Clerics can bolster the undead, further expending the uses of a good cleric's turn undead, given that bolster undead merely counters that. Vecna forbid someone bolstered them before combat!

Also, Xykon didn't cast Animate Dead, he cast Xykon's Significantly Inexpensive Animate Dead. Duh.

[Hiest, monkey]

on't care what anyone says, battle in gem chamber inevitable/cool.