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Shotaro
2007-03-31, 05:19 AM
Ok so my Wizard keeps getting screwed by the Party Cleric, currently we're level 7 and I want to get a nasty vengence on him, but not a vengence anyone in the party would know about. IF you guys tell me spells I can add them but I have barred Evoc and Necromancy simply because the DM has restricted them very heavily (all the other schools are restricted too but those only have cantrips and level 1 spells) My specialist school is Transmutation.

Anyway so far he's left me for dead next to an assassin (the only reason i didn't die was because of a quick-thinking paladin) and moved out of the way to put me in line of sight of a row of Orc Archers (and when I say moved out of the way, he moved so I was blocking their line of sight to him he's supposed to be LG and the thought of visiting his temple has occurred to me but I know people can find out how that was done when he loses all of his spells. I want him to know not to try to get my wizard killed without anyone else knowing it was me.

ocato
2007-03-31, 05:31 AM
Ha! Tattle on him to his god, I love it. I'd mention to the DM in an aside that he isn't exactly playing his alignment if he's leaving his comrades for dead and putting them in danger to save himself. He might be eligible for a divine spankin'.

Shadow of the Sun
2007-03-31, 05:38 AM
Re-roll Artificer after you die.

Shotaro
2007-03-31, 05:50 AM
Ha! Tattle on him to his god, I love it. I'd mention to the DM in an aside that he isn't exactly playing his alignment if he's leaving his comrades for dead and putting them in danger to save himself. He might be eligible for a divine spankin'.

Mentioned that, said he'd talk to the player his reply was "LG doesn't mean Ill help ANYONE even LG characters can have a problem with someone if he'd died though I'd agree" My reply was but the only reason Im not dead is because the paladin heard my semiconcious groans from across the battlefield and legged it to revive me

mind its not helped by the fact that when we take a wedge formation with the casters at the back the orcs See (though im not sure how there were 3 other medium creatures in a direct line between me and them) people not wearing armour and shoot at them first - oh and my DM has neutered polymorph by saying I can only turn into something I've seen (if its something I've seen in a book I know I'll turn into a book cos thats the kind of guy he is) effectively making Polymorph useless and completely neutering the PrC he agreed to (Master Transmogrifist). Im not sure if he's a bad DM frankly because while he knows the rules he plays orcs as being smart enough to breach the lines of the camp so they can stand next to the caster (oh and he doesn't roll toHit on a helpless target but he does get an auto-crit- but makes us roll and wont let us CDG even though he informs us he's letting us off lightly by not CDGing us)

Jannex
2007-03-31, 05:56 AM
Ha! Tattle on him to his god, I love it. I'd mention to the DM in an aside that he isn't exactly playing his alignment if he's leaving his comrades for dead and putting them in danger to save himself. He might be eligible for a divine spankin'.

I agree. And you could even do it in-character in such a way that leaves your hands clean. Visit a temple of the cleric's god when the party hits a city and splits up, leave a generous donation in the offering basket, light some candles on the altar and have a few quiet moments of prayer, wherein you tell the god that PC Cleric isn't exactly acting as a paragon of the god's values, and you're concerned with the effect he might have on the god's reputation among those who meet the cleric. You have a great deal of respect for the god, and it pains you to watch PC Cleric tarnish the god's good name with his cowardice and--dare you say it?--treachery.

If the cleric loses his powers, it's not your fault, even if he does find out you went to his temple. His god took away his divine blessing because of his own actions; it's not like you can interfere in his divine connection without the god's consent. Politely suggest that he find someone to cast an Atonement spell for him, and to stop being such a jerk.

daggaz
2007-03-31, 07:10 AM
Well, nerfing polymorph should be a standard action for all DM's, and the way in which he did it is often the route taken. Tho, I would hope he told you this BEFORE you started the game with your character already built and ready to go.

Nerfing all the other schools? Sounds like he really doesn't like wizards, I hope he had enough sense to nerf divine magic as well, however, to keep things fair and balanced. Funny he nerfs evocation so much tho, its really not the optimal path for batman, anyhow. Once again, hope he mentioned all this nerfing BEFORE character creation. Otherwise he kinda sucks.

As for the CdG issue, if he is getting autohit/autocrit, that my friend is the definition of a CdG. If the monsters get to do that on you, but you don't get to do that to the monsters, then there is really absolutely no reason in the world for that kind of imbalance. You guys should seriously talk to him, I dont think I would play with a DM that did those kind of tricks.

Finally, for the cleric issue, yeah the best way to really screw him is as mentioned, talking to his god. But then you've got to hope the DM doesn't totally suck, because of course he will be the one rollplaying the god.

Shadow of the Sun
2007-03-31, 07:15 AM
If your DM is a tool when you talk to the god, leave and find another group. It isn't worth staying in a group where the DM favours some players over others.

Drider
2007-03-31, 07:31 AM
yea...
I would say leave, and alot of people already did.
But when a DM just hates wizards and sorcs ONLY then the first 8 lvls are HORRIBLE and only subpar after that.and agreeing to a class and making its strongest powers gone. Is this world your in specifically against mages?

Shotaro
2007-03-31, 07:35 AM
Well, nerfing polymorph should be a standard action for all DM's, and the way in which he did it is often the route taken. Tho, I would hope he told you this BEFORE you started the game with your character already built and ready to go.

No he told me AFTER id spent 4900GP levelling up spent skill ranks in disguise to qualify for my PrC and after id spent the best part of 500GP learning that 4th level spell.


Nerfing all the other schools? Sounds like he really doesn't like wizards, I hope he had enough sense to nerf divine magic as well, however, to keep things fair and balanced. Funny he nerfs evocation so much tho, its really not the optimal path for batman, anyhow. Once again, hope he mentioned all this nerfing BEFORE character creation. Otherwise he kinda sucks.

Divine Magic is Nerfless as are Sorcerors and Bards. Wizards are Nerfed because the Mages Guild got burnt to the ground. Yes it was mentioned before character creation hence why I barred Evoc and Necromancy


As for the CdG issue, if he is getting autohit/autocrit, that my friend is the definition of a CdG. If the monsters get to do that on you, but you don't get to do that to the monsters, then there is really absolutely no reason in the world for that kind of imbalance. You guys should seriously talk to him, I dont think I would play with a DM that did those kind of tricks.

Pointed that out to him his response was "I'm the DM" which says it all frankly


Finally, for the cleric issue, yeah the best way to really screw him is as mentioned, talking to his god. But then you've got to hope the DM doesn't totally suck, because of course he will be the one rollplaying the god.

He will go for it as a RPlayer he is good, he just contorts and twists the rules in his favor - so far 4 characters have died in this campaign alone and most of those were people who failed DbMD fort saves for being twatted with a Great Axe while sleeping. Only one player death so far is because of something we as players did wrong.

kamikasei
2007-03-31, 08:18 AM
No he told me AFTER id spent 4900GP levelling up spent skill ranks in disguise to qualify for my PrC and after id spent the best part of 500GP learning that 4th level spell.

Ask to retcon those choices, on the grounds that ability you were trying for has been house-ruled out of the game. If he won't go for that, leave.

This and the CdG issue paint a very unflattering picture of your DM.

Zeta Kai
2007-03-31, 08:18 AM
I'm sorry to say this, but it sounds like your group might not be working out. The DM is more concerned with re-writing the magic system than with party unity, & you have a player who's allowed to run a LG cleric while simultaneously trying to arrange the death of anouther PC. Either factor alone is bad, both combined is grounds for self-dismissal. There are better groups, & better groups for you.

Jade_Tarem
2007-03-31, 01:42 PM
Ouch. If you want vengeance, then you're going to have to fight dirty. This won't fix all your problems, though, so if you truly want your wizard fixed, then you may not want to take my advice.

1. When your wizard inevitably dies (and he will - you'll find ability after ability after spell nerfed until your wizard has nothing left to defend himself with) reroll a CN or CE rogue. Go Assassin eventually. Wait until you're put on watch while the party rests, stare at the cleric for 18 seconds, and pop him. Blame it on a ninja strike or wizards when the party wakes up. If the cleric gets mad, tell him he's metagaming (although he may not know if you do it right). If the DM gets mad, tell him that your wizard was much more level-headed than the assassin, but you wanted to try something different this time - a class that's actually powerful (irony!) instead of a squishy target. The DM should catch the hint - and you should be able to fashion a better wizard. Or the DM can be a colossal purple worm about it and then you should probably leave.

2. Play something really strong, really durable (assuming your wizard dies). Anything, really. Either way, save up your money. Hoarde it. Then, the next time the party stops in town, hire an epic wizard. Go through the major wish ritual that turns you into the creature of your choice, and become a beholder. Manage to keep the cleric in your antimagic cone during every fight. If the cleric gets suspicious (this can only happen accidentally so many times) then tell him that your character fears his after his previous actions, and you want to be sure that there's only so much he can do to backstab you. If he doesn't know what you're talking about, then recite your list of greivances and he should catch the hint.

3. When your wizard dies, reroll and ramp up the abjuration. Go Initiate of the Sevenfold veil, which is the one of the most ungodly powerful PrCs ever created for wizards and seems to have remained unnerfed (judging from your post). Then your problems will be over once you reach the seventh level of that class. Make sure that the cleric never once recieves the benefits of your abilities.

That should do.

Wait, there's one more.

Is the spell major creation still around? If it is, when you get it, use it while you're on watch to summon 9 cubic feet of antimatter of some kind. You'll kill everyone in the party, as well as proabably crack the planet, which will then spiral out into space or fall into the sun. You can use this in an emergency to crash the DM's campaign - though they may not invite you back, so be sure that you were already planning to leave the group.

martyboy74
2007-03-31, 02:33 PM
Is the spell major creation still around? If it is, when you get it, use it while you're on watch to summon 9 cubic feet of antimatter of some kind. You'll kill everyone in the party, as well as proabably crack the planet, which will then spiral out into space or fall into the sun. You can use this in an emergency to crash the DM's campaign - though they may not invite you back, so be sure that you were already planning to leave the group.
Anti-Osmium. 685 quintillion damage. (Not me).
By the way, most DMs don't like it when you create explosions that destroy planets.

kamikasei
2007-03-31, 02:53 PM
Is the spell major creation still around? If it is, when you get it, use it while you're on watch to summon 9 cubic feet of antimatter of some kind. You'll kill everyone in the party, as well as proabably crack the planet, which will then spiral out into space or fall into the sun. You can use this in an emergency to crash the DM's campaign - though they may not invite you back, so be sure that you were already planning to leave the group.

Pah! Destroying the earth is harder than you may have been led to believe (http://qntm.org/destroy#Methods%20for%20destroying%20the%20Earth); 9 cubic feet won't do it, not even if it's osmium. Also, you need a tiny sample of the material you're trying to create; good luck keeping even a few atoms of anti-anything around using the tech level available to a sorcerer. :smallamused:

martyboy74
2007-03-31, 03:14 PM
What do you think Eschew Materials was made for? Also, by this point, you're creating at least 15 cubic feet. Also also, the Earth is not made of of solid iron. Finally, this is D&D. Things don't need to make sense.

Tallis
2007-03-31, 03:34 PM
Well I'm going to have to agree that it sounds like you got stuck with a bad DM. I agree with the way he runs polymorph, but it's something you should have known from the beginning, not found out after the fact. What was his reason for saying you can't CDG when the bad guys can? Because he's the DM? That should tell you all you need to know right there.
As far as the cleric goes, his intentions are more important than the results of his actions in this case, sounds to me like he's in line for an alignment shift and losing some powers. His god should already know about it, you shouldn't have to tell him.
My best advise though is talk to the other players (this may or may not include the player of the cleric), then go to your DM with your grievances. If he doesn't start running things more fairly find another DM.

Jade_Tarem
2007-03-31, 05:07 PM
Pah! Destroying the earth is harder than you may have been led to believe (http://qntm.org/destroy#Methods%20for%20destroying%20the%20Earth); 9 cubic feet won't do it, not even if it's osmium. Also, you need a tiny sample of the material you're trying to create; good luck keeping even a few atoms of anti-anything around using the tech level available to a sorcerer. :smallamused:

Honestly, it's probably good enough that you destroyed the whole party and everything for hundreds of miles around. If it isn't then I'm pretty sure that not only will it leave a mark on the landscape that will be forever known as the Crater of Shotaro but also that it would be sufficient to knock the planet off course.

Or you could just chuck an adamantine decanter of endless water on "geyser" mode into an Otiluke's Resiliant Sphere - nothing good ever comes of that. (You wouldn't "chuck it in," btw, you would cast the spell around the bottle.)

Arbitrarity
2007-03-31, 05:16 PM
Hey, you could cast it at a low CL, then a larger one at higher CL, etc, until you run out of slots!

martyboy74
2007-03-31, 05:46 PM
Lets see...resilient sphere...smallest diameter...geyser setting...persistant metamagic...aha!
At the smallest size (a 1' diameter sphere) for Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, with Persistant metmagic placed on it, and the decanter set to "geyser" the entire time, by the time that the Sphere wears off, the water is at 825059.225 times its normal density.
Anyone know what that would do?

Zincorium
2007-03-31, 06:05 PM
Well, one thing's for sure: You ain't getting your deposit back.

Considering that if I remember correctly a liquid (water) will not remain compressed without a container, the entire quantity will attempt to expand to 825059.225 times it's starting volume when the spell ends. It will do this rapidly and with much force.

martyboy74
2007-03-31, 06:10 PM
Actually, at some point, the water pressure would just crush crush the decanter, thus destroying the portal. When do you think that would happen?

Folie
2007-03-31, 06:57 PM
A question: Why, exactly, does this cleric not like your wizard? I might try talking to him to figure out why he objects to your continued existence - maybe there's a misunderstanding that you might be able to clear up, or a bad habit that you could try to change. If the cleric has a good, understandable reason to be mad at you, I feel that you should actively seek his acceptance.

Of course, if he's mad at you for a stupid reason - such as an OOC dispute or a grudge against arcane casters - then I say you should let him have it.

kamikasei
2007-03-31, 06:57 PM
If the pressure gets high enough before it destroys the decanter, the water would actually become ice from the pressure, I think.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-03-31, 07:11 PM
Imprison the Cleric in a Portable Hole. If he falls into it, and you un-hole it, he can't get out, and will suffocate. If he doesn't suffocate, grab a scroll of Polymorph Any Object and turn the air inside into lava.

martyboy74
2007-03-31, 07:13 PM
If the pressure gets high enough before it destroys the decanter, the water would actually become ice from the pressure, I think.

...why would it do that? Water is denser than ice; why do you think ice floats?

ocato
2007-03-31, 07:17 PM
While pressure might be able to affect a state of matter, that's not an example. Or else the bottom of the oceans would all be ice.

kamikasei
2007-03-31, 07:25 PM
...why would it do that? Water is denser than ice; why do you think ice floats?

I'm pretty sure it's a sheer pressure thing, and it may be a particular and unusual crystalline form of ice; I believe the reason is that the ice is simply more stable, even if it's less dense (which may not be the case at those pressures). I'll check it, though.

Variable Arcana
2007-03-31, 07:32 PM
Oh, good grief. It's bad enough killing catgirls with good science...

1) Ice (solid water) is heavier than liquid water only in the narrow range from -4 degrees C to 0 degrees C (at standard atmospheric pressure). As it gets colder than that, it gets heavier.

2) At tens of thousands of times the density of ordinary liquid water, water wouldn't just become ice, it would become degenerate matter (the stuff white dwarf stars are made out of).

3) No Decanter and Sphere in any universe controlled by a sane DM would have anything resembling these effects. The Decanter would fill the sphere and then stop producing water until there was room for it. (Perhaps increasing the density in the sphere ever so slightly, until the outward pressure on the sphere was everywhere equal to the maximum backpressure the decanter can exert...)

martyboy74
2007-03-31, 07:35 PM
Alright, I guess it might form VHDA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphous_ice#Very-high-density_amorphous_ice).

starwoof
2007-03-31, 07:45 PM
Wait, you're a transmuter? And you have polymorph?

Whe you're in combat, tell him that you'll polymorph him into some really big gribbly critter so he can own harder. Then turn him into a carp.

Then sit and laugh and laugh as his character asphyxiates, slowly. :smallbiggrin:


Alternatively, you cna wait until you cna cast polymorph any object. Then turn him into a sandwich and eat him.

Jade_Tarem
2007-03-31, 08:02 PM
Oh, good grief. It's bad enough killing catgirls with good science...

1) Ice (solid water) is heavier than liquid water only in the narrow range from -4 degrees C to 0 degrees C (at standard atmospheric pressure). As it gets colder than that, it gets heavier.

2) At tens of thousands of times the density of ordinary liquid water, water wouldn't just become ice, it would become degenerate matter (the stuff white dwarf stars are made out of).

3) No Decanter and Sphere in any universe controlled by a sane DM would have anything resembling these effects. The Decanter would fill the sphere and then stop producing water until there was room for it. (Perhaps increasing the density in the sphere ever so slightly, until the outward pressure on the sphere was everywhere equal to the maximum backpressure the decanter can exert...)

Emphasis mine. What about an insane DM?

And how does this explain how an infinite water supply comes from a finite container?

Anyway, the last part of my first post was a joke, I didn't want to spark a debate about blowing up the planet.

Variable Arcana
2007-03-31, 08:43 PM
Well... and insane DM would let someone use Major Creation to create a big mass of antimatter and destroy a large city without having to make a DC:30 Knowledge(Nuclear Physics) check... so the abuse of a Decanter of Endless Water becomes rather moot.

Jarawara
2007-03-31, 09:01 PM
Imprison the Cleric in a Portable Hole. If he falls into it, and you un-hole it, he can't get out, and will suffocate. If he doesn't suffocate, grab a scroll of Polymorph Any Object and turn the air inside into lava.

Oh, better yet - 'Save' the cleric in battle. Set up a pit trap to 'imprison' the enemies, but set it up next to you, behind where the cleric was standing. Try to get the cleric to fall into it (and if not, try to get it hard for him to move, since there's this pit trap blocking his way).

Once the cleric does eventually fall in, wrap up the pit trap and run for it, to save both yourself and the poor cleric. Don't take advice from the other players, don't even link up with the other players, hopefully nobody mentions the suffocation rules.

The goal here is to suffocate the Cleric, while appearing to have not intended to do so. Oh, and make sure that just before you reopen the pit, several *days* later back in town, look up the rules and say "Uh, I think I may have made a boo-boo." That's just so the DM doesn't forget the suffocation rules himself and inadvertantly save the cleric.

*~*~*~*

One thing, though, while you contemplate how to kill the cleric while making it look like you didn't intend to kill the cleric:

What if the Cleric didn't intend to screw you over either? What if he's just playing bad strategy, thinking only of himself, and not considering that his in-combat positioning is exposing you. That's not good play on his part, but it's not exactly violating the tenants of LG either. It's more like LG, but with a low INT score. Basically, he might not have been intending to screw you over, so you should confirm that before returning the favor.

Jade_Tarem
2007-04-01, 01:55 AM
One thing, though, while you contemplate how to kill the cleric while making it look like you didn't intend to kill the cleric:

What if the Cleric didn't intend to screw you over either? What if he's just playing bad strategy, thinking only of himself, and not considering that his in-combat positioning is exposing you. That's not good play on his part, but it's not exactly violating the tenants of LG either. It's more like LG, but with a low INT score. Basically, he might not have been intending to screw you over, so you should confirm that before returning the favor.

I wondered about this too, but even if you were utterly, completely new to DnD (and none to bright to boot), there's no real logical justification for placing the wizard between yourself and a crew of archers when you're the armored cleric. It's kind of hard to miss when using a battle-mat and completely impossible to miss when you're not.

The subsequent posts of the original poster seem to indicate that something more is going on, as well.

1337_master
2007-04-01, 02:21 AM
Hmmm...I'd Try not letting him sleep for a nights, so He can't get his spells. (Needs 8 hours sleep) That would be an optimal time to come in for the kill.

And to get rid of his equipment, use the Rusting grasp spell. (if you have it) and if you would, try to Charm a few of the enemies to attack one Mr.I'm-a-Dumbass-cleric-that-doesn't-follow-the-rules-of-alignments.

Jack Mann
2007-04-01, 03:59 AM
No, clerics don't need to rest for their spells. They just need to pray at a certain time. Mr. Wizard, on the other hand, does need the rest. That ain't a winning tactic for him.

spotmarkedx
2007-04-02, 10:39 AM
Whoa, hold on guys. You're actually advocating adversarial meta-gaming to kill the cleric's character? This does not sound like a good path to take.

With regards to the player issue. I'd talk to the cleric about it. In character, not OOC. Ask him flat out: "So why exactly did you find it necessary to use me as a shield when those orcs were firing their arrows?" or "I seem to remember you being close by when I was taken down by the assassin. Can you please explain why I found the paladin reviving me, and not you?" Ask him if he has some reason to leave you high and dry. Remind him what negative effect this has on party trust and dynamic.

While perhaps not as bad a situation, I was able to resolve a party issue in a manner similar to this. I also was a mage, new to an established adventuring group (my prior character had died). The most blatant anecdote of chafing with the part cleric: in a combat, I got smacked around pretty badly, probably because I had cast some spells that significantly helped our party in said combat. Afterwards, our party cleric chose to heal our gnome fighter's dog (mount) instead of myself. I ended up drinking a potion. Needless to say, I felt a bit slighted. But I expressed it in no uncertain terms, and the party was able to smooth out the situation (though I was never friendly with the cleric afterwards. Our relationship was professional only).

Now obviously each situation is different, but if you talk about it in character, not only may it be an interesting roleplaying situation, you may be able to draw support from the other players.

The problem with the game itself and your DM's rulings is a completely separate issue. kamikasei has the right of it, assuming that you want to stay in this game (from the picture you paint of him, he seems a bit too autocratic for my tastes). Ask if you can retcon out of the PrC, since he is changing the stated powers of the class and spell only after you have gotten the abilities instead of before. If he seems to be balking, remind him that this is a game, and therefore is generally supposed to be fun. While you do understand that the DM will want to be able to control the game in some ways, including the nerfing of some (admittedly overpowered) spells and abilities, it is not fun to spend a significant amount of time and energy into getting some abilities, only to have them immediately changed to the negative. Offer an analogy. (sayy.. having your parents promise a new playstation if you do your chores, get good grades, etc. etc. etc., so you do all the required tasks, and then find out that they meant a playstation 1, not a playstation 3 like you were expecting. There are fun playstation 1 games. They will not seem fun if you were planning to buy PS3 games.)

The coup-de-gras thing is a bit over the top as well. Maybe the best thing to do here (again assuming that you want to try to stay in this game) would be to ask the GM, that since it seems like he has this belief that the CdG action is too powerful a general ability to let players get for free, to ask if it should then not just be turned into a feat instead of the current imbalance of abilities. That way you at least force the GM to burn a feat for all his NPCs on a very situational ability.

Either that or start hiring a strong henchman to follow you around "to carry your stuff". Give him a scythe. Have him do your Coup-de-gras. He's a NPC. Shouldn't he have the mystical CdG NPC powers? [/sarcasm] XP

Assassinfox
2007-04-02, 10:54 AM
I think the DM and the cleric are in cahoots to make your wizard die.

MaxKaladin
2007-04-02, 01:34 PM
I think the DM and the cleric are in cahoots to make your wizard die.That's what I've been thinking reading this.

Rahdjan
2007-04-02, 01:38 PM
I'm more than a little curious what relationship there is between DM and Cleric. Are they best friends/related/ect? What do the other players have to say about all this? Maybe you can get the other players on your side to force a change in the cleric. Obviously the Palidan wants you to live, use that to your advantage.

Ranis
2007-04-02, 01:56 PM
Tell his god he's a bad boy and deserves a spankin'.

Tweekinator
2007-04-02, 03:44 PM
I don't know your level or exact spell list, but perhaps you could wait until the cleric is sleeping and cast a nice Geas on him.

Indon
2007-04-02, 03:47 PM
But then the Cleric could cast Quest on him when _he's_ sleeping.

Before long, the compulsions are flying all over the place.

Tweekinator
2007-04-02, 03:51 PM
Make it part of the Geas that the cleric can do nothing to him that he(the wizard) would not like. Or just lay on the multiple Geases all night to cover everything you want/don't want him to do. There's probably also a spell or item that makes you immune to compulsion effects that could come in handy for that.

Indon
2007-04-02, 03:54 PM
Fighter: "Why did the Wizard volunteer to take the entire night's watch last night? It's very unlike him."
Rogue: "I dunno. Maybe there's something odd going on..."
Cleric: "Nonsense! There is nothing going on! Our esoteric comrade is perfect in every way and definitely could not have done anything underhanded! If you say otherwise, I'll KILL YOU!"
Fighter, Rogue: "..."

Shotaro
2007-04-02, 05:03 PM
heh, I just spoke to a fellow party member who agrees with me entirely - he's a CN Wiz3/Clr3/Theurge1 (I told him theurge sucked but he wouldn't listen he just says "27 SPELLS PER DAY!!!!") anyway while he sucks with game mechanics he is an evil diabolical maniac who somehow manages to pick a N god so he can eventually go CE - we have a large party and it turns out that myself, the rogue, 2 of the meatshields (1 a bar3/ftr4 and one a Ftr7) and the ranger and monk into making the party... how should I say... uncompatible with the LG Cleric and the LG paladin. Plans are now in place to dispatch the cleric and the paladin and recruit new ones more inclined to our way of thinking or at least not LG, the deal is thus. I use my knowledge of the Arcane Arts (and its far greater than a theurge) to help him restore the Evocation branch of the Mage's Academy and he keeps me alive and aids me in becoming head of the Transmuters. (Hes a generalist but knowing shocking ray and magic missile make him the most powerful envoker in the world - seeing as how the guild was massacred 2500 years ago and most of the spells were lost)

Assassinfox
2007-04-02, 05:14 PM
First we get the warhead...

Isn't the paladin the one that saved you? :smallfrown:

Jack Mann
2007-04-02, 07:18 PM
He can't be CE if his god is N. He can be chaotic neutral or neutral evil, but not chaotic evil. That's two steps away from his deity.

F.H. Zebedee
2007-04-02, 11:01 PM
As for revenge on a more petty level? Sovereign glue his weapon to his teeth while he's asleep. He'll need to perform some dental work to fix that issue.

Kreistor
2007-04-02, 11:18 PM
How about this.

Teleport to the next town one night on your watch. Polymorph into HIM. Do a few nasty things, and then Teleport back. (Remember to drop Polymorph.) He'll have some problems with the locals once he gets there.

TSGames
2007-04-02, 11:18 PM
Ouch. If you want vengeance, then you're going to have to fight dirty.
The first thing I thought of was the Vitalactery from Torn Asunder by Bastion Press. 22,300 GP(a lot, I know), but basically you spend 300 XP and put as many hit points into as you want(these HPs are subtracted from your total and do not return until you use the Vitalactery) and then, at any time, you can have them transfer back to your character. For example, an Orc axe reduces you to -14, even though you appear dead, and basically are, you could(at will) have the 20 HPs you put into the Vitalactery transfer back to you. Imagine, the Cleric thinks you're dead, and then you pop back up after the battle is over, one very angry wizard. How unfortunate that most DM's won't allow it, and it's rather costly.

Looked it up, and you are actually dead if -10 HP or less, but it syays that "your spirit does not depart from your body"

Folie
2007-04-02, 11:42 PM
<more plotting>
You didn't answer my question--why doesn't he like your character? I just want to know, please.:smallsmile:

Quietus
2007-04-03, 07:03 AM
And just so it doesn't get lost/forgotten - you're planning to doublecross the paladin that saved your life?

spotmarkedx
2007-04-03, 07:22 AM
You didn't answer my question--why doesn't he like your character? I just want to know, please.:smallsmile:Hm. I agree. This is looking to me like we are getting only one side of the story.

1337_master
2007-04-03, 07:22 AM
Why not? I'm a Cleric3/wizard2 (Mystic theurge sucka!) that swore a life oath to my (oddly intelligent) half-orc barbarian friend, but if he left me for dead...Hell, I'm the party healer, I would...probably not heal him.

Tweekinator
2007-04-03, 11:14 AM
And just so it doesn't get lost/forgotten - you're planning to doublecross the paladin that saved your life?

Yes, this seems like it will create some more problems for you, such as a reluctance of party members willing to stay in the way of orc arrows. It's seeming less like you're an innocent wizard and more like an evil, backstabbing wizard who the LG cleric and paladin should probably actively do away with instead of saving.

Matthew
2007-04-03, 07:38 PM
Hm. I agree. This is looking to me like we are getting only one side of the story.

As is typical of such disputes.