Is there a magic item that grants Sneak Attack?

[yaluckyboy09]

I'm playing a Beguiler and I'd like to be able to deal decent melee damage if the need arises, but all magic items I've found only increase the Sneak Attack you'd already have. Is there a magic item that would grant my character a Sneak Attack damage?

[Forrestfire]

Shadow Hand Gloves keyed to Assassin's Stance gives 2d6 sneak attack if you have any Shadow Hand maneuver known. The Martial Study feat can get you said maneuver.

[yaluckyboy09]

Shadow Hand Gloves keyed to Assassin's Stance gives 2d6 sneak attack if you have any Shadow Hand maneuver known. The Martial Study feat can get you said maneuver.

I was hoping for something that was just an item, not requiring a feat or anything

[Forrestfire]

Shadow Hand Gloves (Assassin's Stance) combined with an Eternal Wand of Heroics (4,420gp), then. Heroics can grant you Martial Study to learn a shadow hand maneuver, although it will only last you 30 minutes per casting. Picking up two of the wands hits four encounters worth per day, at least, if you can plan for them coming. Or see if you can just get a continuous item of it.

[RolandDeschain]

How lenient is your DM?

A custom item with continuous Critical Strike might work.

[yaluckyboy09]

How lenient is your DM?

A custom item with continuous Critical Strike might work.

that's probably what I'm gonna be doing if I can't find anything official

[Forrestfire]

Note that Critical Strike does not actually give you sneak attack damage, so unless the DM house rules that, things that buff said damage are going to end up not affecting it. Could be counterproductive if you're looking for decent damage past levels 1-3ish.

[Seerow]

Note that Critical Strike does not actually give you sneak attack damage, so unless the DM house rules that, things that buff said damage are going to end up not affecting it. Could be counterproductive if you're looking for decent damage past levels 1-3ish.

On the other hand I am reasonably sure that Hunter's Eye does give actual sneak attack damage, though it will cost more than Critical Strike (custom gloves of hunter's eye 4 is going to cost 64,000gp compared to 8,000 for Critical Strike. 1 spell level really makes a ridiculous difference).

[Jeff the Green]

Shadow Hand Gloves (Assassin's Stance) combined with an Eternal Wand of Heroics (4,420gp), then. Heroics can grant you Martial Study to learn a shadow hand maneuver, although it will only last you 30 minutes per casting. Picking up two of the wands hits four encounters worth per day, at least, if you can plan for them coming. Or see if you can just get a continuous item of it.

Actually, once you use the gloves to get Assassin's Stance, you can throw away the wand of heroics. Knowing Assassin's Stance means that you know one Shadow Hand Maneuver, which is the prerequisite for Assassin's Stance.

[AnonymousPepper]

Something slightly more permanent might be a feat item (A&EG) granting Martial Study. Will run you 10k but is permanent except when in an AMF.

[deuxhero]

@Seerow

For what it's worth, an Archivist or Unseen Seer can make it way cheaper (48,000) than a Ranger.

[Seerow]

@Seerow

For what it's worth, an Archivist or Unseen Seer can make it way cheaper (48,000) than a Ranger.

Huh, one caster level makes quite the difference there. But still, crazy expensive. Especially for a caster who just wants some sneak attack in case he decides he wants to melee.

[Curmudgeon]

Actually, once you use the gloves to get Assassin's Stance, you can throw away the wand of heroics. Knowing Assassin's Stance means that you know one Shadow Hand Maneuver, which is the prerequisite for Assassin's Stance.
I wouldn't throw away the wand unless you'll never become paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. From page 43 of Tome of Battle:
Your stance ends if you are rendered helpless for any reason. If you later recover, you must use another swift action to initiate your stance once again.

[Jeff the Green]

I wouldn't throw away the wand unless you'll never become paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. From page 43 of Tome of Battle:

Yes, but as long as you don't take the gloves off, you still know it.

[heavyfuel]

Actually, once you use the gloves to get Assassin's Stance, you can throw away the wand of heroics. Knowing Assassin's Stance means that you know one Shadow Hand Maneuver, which is the prerequisite for Assassin's Stance.

I'm not that familiar with ToB, but aren't "maneuvers" the Counter/Boost/Strike and "stances" the... well... stances?

Like, how a class has X maneuvers known, and Y stances known, as they are two different things. And how Martial Study doesn't grant you access to stances, only maneuvers.

If so, knowing Assassin Stance shouldn't qualify for the gloves

[Jeff the Green]

I'm not that familiar with ToB, but aren't "maneuvers" the Counter/Boost/Strike and "stances" the... well... stances?

Like, how a class has X maneuvers known, and Y stances known, as they are two different things. And how Martial Study doesn't grant you access to stances, only maneuvers.

If so, knowing Assassin Stance shouldn't qualify for the gloves

I'm away from my books, but stances are definitely a type of maneuver.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'm not that familiar with ToB, but aren't "maneuvers" the Counter/Boost/Strike and "stances" the... well... stances?

Like, how a class has X maneuvers known, and Y stances known, as they are two different things. And how Martial Study doesn't grant you access to stances, only maneuvers.

If so, knowing Assassin Stance shouldn't qualify for the gloves

You'd think so, but there's a specific exception for that.

Stances are considered maneuvers for the purpose of
meeting a prerequisite to learn a new maneuver

You'll only need to reapply Heroics if you ever take the gloves off. And considering that quite a few items like rings and amulets have some kind of "you need to wear this for 24 hours to get the effect" restriction it seems like adventurers are assumed to sleep in their gear, as long as it's not heavy armor.
Sleeping with gloves on, while still weird, is at least more comfortable, especially since the shadow hand gloves are silk.

[Crake]

You'd think so, but there's a specific exception for that.


You'll only need to reapply Heroics if you ever take the gloves off. And considering that quite a few items like rings and amulets have some kind of "you need to wear this for 24 hours to get the effect" restriction it seems like adventurers are assumed to sleep in their gear, as long as it's not heavy armor.
Sleeping with gloves on, while still weird, is at least more comfortable, especially since the shadow hand gloves are silk.

The problem with that being the only exception where stances are actually considered maneuvers is that they can't actually be put in the items.

Stances are not maneuvers. Any time something mentions a maneuver, stances are not included except when determining pre-requisites of other maneuvers.

As such, you could use the gloves to qualify for the martial stance feat (which you could get with an eternal wand of heroics), use the wand on yourself in the morning, enter the stance (which you would then stay in, despite losing the feat, although if you lose the stance for any reason, you'd need to re-use the wand) and then you'd have sneak attack, plus an extra shadow hand maneuver.

I repeat however, you cannot get gloves of shadowhand with a stance in them, because the gloves can only contain maneuvers, and stances are not maneuvers.

Edit: However, you'd need to be level 10 to actually be able to meet the initiator level requirements for assassin's stance, assuming you have no levels in an initiator class

[Forrestfire]

A page towards the start of the Tome of Battle defines a stance as a specialized form of maneuver. They are maneuvers, just ones with special rules.

[herrhauptmann]

Knowing Assassin's Stance means that you know one Shadow Hand Maneuver, which is the prerequisite for Assassin's Stance.
Don't think it works quite that way.

Usually people use that argument when multiclassing to a ToB and want to take two higher level maneuvers/stances, each of which has a prereq of 1 other maneuver/stance. (Or maybe a three maneuvers that all have a prereq of 2 maneuvers)
At a later level they forget one of those maneuvers/stances, to learn a higher level one which also has a prereq of 1 other manevuer/stance. (Or two prereqs in my second example)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by yaluckyboy09
Is there a magic item that would grant my character a Sneak Attack damage?

As it happens, I'm playing a beguiler in a Pathfinder campaign, and in our last session I scored a belt that grants me Sneak Attack. I'm pretty sure this is a homebrew item, and I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but it's on my list of questions for the DM. I can pass on whatever he tells me (homebrew, obscure item, etc.) if you like.

[Crake]

Don't think it works quite that way.

Usually people use that argument when multiclassing to a ToB and want to take two higher level maneuvers/stances, each of which has a prereq of 1 other maneuver/stance. (Or maybe a three maneuvers that all have a prereq of 2 maneuvers)
At a later level they forget one of those maneuvers/stances, to learn a higher level one which also has a prereq of 1 other manevuer/stance. (Or two prereqs in my second example)

I think in the post was saying more along the lines of: get maneuver A, which qualifies you for maneuver B (needing 1 maneuver to qualify). Once you get maneuver B, you can get rid of maneuver A, since, now that you have it, maneuver B qualifies for itself. I dont think he was saying that you could just go straight to maneuver B, letting it qualify for itself right off the bat.


A page towards the start of the Tome of Battle defines a stance as a specialized form of maneuver. They are maneuvers, just ones with special rules.

If that were the case, then you could pick up stances with martial study, because it doesn't specifically say "you cannot take stances with this feat", yet you cant, despite the fact that it doesn't say that. That's because stances are not maneuvers, they are only considered so for the purposes of maneuver and stance pre-requisites. I believe rules precedence would say that the part under chapter 3: blade magic, that is describing stances in depth, and opens up with "A stance is not a maneuver" overrides the short description near the start of the book.

[Curmudgeon]

From page 5 of Tome of Battle:
Stance: A stance is a special type of maneuver.

If that were the case, then you could pick up stances with martial study, because it doesn't specifically say "you cannot take stances with this feat", yet you cant, despite the fact that it doesn't say that.
Actually, the reason you can't usefully pick up a stance with Martial Study is that the maneuver chosen with that feat can be used only once per encounter, rather than continually until ended the way stances normally work.

[Powerdork]

Actually, the reason you can't usefully pick up a stance with Martial Study is that the maneuver chosen with that feat can be used only once per encounter, rather than continually until ended the way stances normally work.

Stances are used once as a swift action, though, and then they have a special duration (even if that duration is 'continual until you assume a new stance'). This means that if you pick up Stance of Green Leaf and Stance of Red Gem through Martial Study, you can be in Stance of Green Leaf, and if you choose to enter Stance of Red Gem in a later encounter, you can switch back to Stance of Green Leaf (once this encounter), but then can't enter Stance of Red Gem again until the encounter ends.

[Curmudgeon]

Stances are used once as a swift action, though, and ...
That's not right. Stances are initiated as a swift action, and then used continuously until ended.

[Crake]

Curmudgeon, that's like using a spell's short description over a spell's full description. Page 43, part of the chapter specifically explaining how the mechanics of this book works, says, as it's first line for stances, "Stance: A stance is not a maneuver, but a specific fighting method that you maintain from round to round." That's pretty damn clear. Some overview description in the introduction to the book in no way takes precedence over the chapter that is specifically for explaining how the mechanics work.

Edit: Also the title of that section is "Maneuver and Stance descriptions" which, in and of itself, implies that they are different things.

[Darrin]

Mantle of the Predator (8000 GP, MIC) gives you 1d6 damage whenever your opponent is denied his Dex bonus... it's the equivalent of Sudden Strike (which counts as Sneak Attack), but isn't actually called Sudden Strike.

Rogue's Vest (18000 GP, MIC) gives you +1d6 if you already have it.

Assassination property (+1 enhancement, Cityscape Web Enhancement Pt 3 (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a)) gives you the equivalent of Sneak Attack, and it stacks with other sources of Sneak Attack.