Creating a Class

[Thrathgnar]

I'm interested in creating homebrew classes for fun. Right now my main idea is a psionic class with a couple unique features. Before I start though, do you have any advice on this? I just want to have fun with it, but I'd like to keep it at balanced as possible

Also side note: is there anything about this in the DMG? I don't have mine yet

[FadeAssassin]

It basically just says to look at the classes already presented and modify them. If you're going to build anything, I sugest starting with a subclass first.

[Shadow]

If you're going to build anything, I sugest starting with a subclass first.

This.
There is very little reason to build new classes in 5e. Almost any concept that you can imagine either already exists or can be created by simply porting a subclass into a different class than intended, or by making a new subclass.
New classes will be few and far between hopefully, whereas new subclasses will be welcomed.
Subclasses are already very easy to homebrew and balance. New classes will be a different matter entirely.

Example:
The psion class that you want to make.... would just be a subclass of wizard, and would work very well under that chassis.
The 5e wizard is already a kind of combination of 3e's wiz + sorc + psion. He prepares spells (like a wizard), has spontaneous casting from that list (like a sorc or psion), and empowers his spells as needed on the fly (like a psion).

[Thrathgnar]

I'm just messing around with ideas :P thanks for the info, thats good to know

[Demonic Spoon]

This.
There is very little reason to build new classes in 5e. Almost any concept that you can imagine either already exists or can be created by simply porting a subclass into a different class than intended, or by making a new subclass.
New classes will be few and far between hopefully, whereas new subclasses will be welcomed.
Subclasses are already very easy to homebrew and balance. New classes will be a different matter entirely.

Example:
The psion class that you want to make.... would just be a subclass of wizard, and would work very well under that chassis.
The 5e wizard is already a kind of combination of 3e's wiz + sorc + psion. He prepares spells (like a wizard), has spontaneous casting from that list (like a sorc or psion), and empowers his spells as needed on the fly (like a psion).


This is blatantly untrue. Subclasses offer fairly small customizations on an existing chassis.
A Psion only works as a wizard subclass if you want to have the same wizard prepared spellcasting and the same wizard class features and the same wizard spell list, which is very limiting.

Subclasses fulfill an important niche - a way to introduce new concepts that are related to existing ones without having to create a brand new class from scratch, and as such they can reduce the number of new classes - but they do not replace the need for a full class to represent certain concepts.

Another concept that isn't very well-represented by the existing set of classes is a Shifter.

[jaydubs]

Before I start though, do you have any advice on this? I just want to have fun with it, but I'd like to keep it at balanced as possible

Some (non-comprehensive) general advice:

-Make sure you have an interesting fluff concept.
-Think about what kind of role (or roles) the class is meant to occupy. It shouldn't be outright better than any of the existing classes. Fill a new role, or fill a role in a different way.
-Make sure it's playable through it's level progression, advances organically, and gets something cool at every level.
-Don't make it too complicated to play. 5e is meant to be simpler than earlier editions, both to play and to DM.
-Follow the same rules as the other classes. I.e. proficiency progression, getting 1 common save (con/wis/dex) and 1 uncommon save (str/int/cha), spell slots, etc.
-Don't use fluff or annoyance in play to balance a class.
-When looking at balance, look at floors and ceilings. It shouldn't require optimization to be okay, and it shouldn't become broken when optimized.
-Ask some friends (or forumites) to help you review once you have an idea on paper. A new set of eyes (or several) is great for identifying problems, both balance and otherwise.

[Shadow]

This is blatantly untrue. Subclasses offer fairly small customizations on an existing chassis.
A Psion only works as a wizard subclass if you want to have the same wizard prepared spellcasting and the same wizard class features and the same wizard spell list, which is very limiting.
Well, since wizards get exactly one class feature besides their casting prior to level 18, and that feature exists only to give spells back (kind of like giving PP back), and the extreme vast majority of powers were nothing more than slight variations on existing arcane spells, explain how your statement makes any sense.
Psions are, were, and always have been a variation on a wizard.


Subclasses fulfill an important niche - a way to introduce new concepts that are related to existing ones without having to create a brand new class from scratch, and as such they can reduce the number of new classes - but they do not replace the need for a full class to represent certain concepts.

Another concept that isn't very well-represented by the existing set of classes is a Shifter.

They absolutely can fill that void.
Your example of Shifter?
You can't be talking about the race, so I'll assume you mean shapeshifter, which Moon Druid fills quite nicely.

Let's play a game. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?390938-Let-s-play-a-game&p=18602782#post18602782)
You name a concept, and I'll name the appropriate class (or multiclass combination) to drop new subclass onto which will fit that concept.

edited in link

[Demonic Spoon]

Well, since wizards get exactly one class feature besides their casting prior to level 18, and that feature exists only to give spells back (kind of like giving PP back), and the extreme vast majority of powers were nothing more than slight variations on existing arcane spells, explain how your statement makes any sense.
Psions are, were, and always have been a variation on a wizard.


Psions had different casting mechanics and a different spell list. Besides, would you plan on getting rid of PP? Because a subclass shouldn't redefine the base class.


They absolutely can fill that void.
Your example of Shifter?
You can't be talking about the race, so I'll assume you mean shapeshifter, which Moon Druid fills quite nicely.


No it doesn't. The moon druid is limited in its ability to shift in order to be balanced against the fact that it is also a full 9th-level caster. It's also intrinsically tied to the nature-y druid fluff by only being able to shift into beasts and (later) elementals.

[Shadow]

No it doesn't. The moon druid is limited in its ability to shift in order to be balanced against the fact that it is also a full 9th-level caster. It's also intrinsically tied to the nature-y druid fluff by only being able to shift into beasts and (later) elementals.

Then you need to be much much MUCH more specific in what you expect from a "Shifter" because from thatr one word description of concept.... Moon Druid fills it perfectly.

[Jeraa]

Well, since wizards get exactly one class feature besides their casting prior to level 18, and that feature exists only to give spells back (kind of like giving PP back), and the extreme vast majority of powers were nothing more than slight variations on existing arcane spells, explain how your statement makes any sense.
Psions are, were, and always have been a variation on a wizard.

Wizard spells are kept in a book, and there is no limit to the number of spells a wizard can scribe in his book.
Psion powers are totally internal, and had a strict limit on number of powers known.

If anything, that make a psion more like a sorcerer than a wizard. At least from a casting/manifesting point of view.

[Thrathgnar]

Guys it doesn't really matter, it can be done either way thats why its called homebrew lol. I'm just gonna have fun with it and build a class from the ground up with its own spell list/feasts

[Demonic Spoon]

Then you need to be much much MUCH more specific in what you expect from a "Shifter" because from thatr one word description of concept.... Moon Druid fills it perfectly.


A class that is dedicated to shapeshifting, shapeshifting being as core to the class as casting spells is to the wizard or hitting things with swords is to the fighter.

The moon druid is a druid that shapeshifts.

[Shadow]

Wizard spells are kept in a book, and there is no limit to the number of spells a wizard can scribe in his book.
Psion powers are totally internal, and had a strict limit on number of powers known.

If anything, that make a psion more like a sorcerer than a wizard. At least from a casting/manifesting point of view.

Which is exactly what I said in the thread I linked above, which I created to keep from derailing this one any further.
You should check it out.

[TheOOB]

A new class should use a fundamentally different core mechanic than any existing classes. The new class "archtypes" for lack of a better word offer tremendous versatility.

A Psion would work as a new class, but it would require an entire new rules system and powers list, which is a huge undertaking. Keeping in mind that WotC will almost assuredly make a psionics handbook at some point, probably not worth it.

I could see a full on warlord class or a martial class that goes all book of nine swords(far beyond what the battle master can do), and I'd also LOVE to see a summoner class, something like the pathfinder class but not terrible/overly complex.

[mictrepanier]

druid fluff by only being able to shift into beasts and (later) elementals.

The answer should be

1) A subclass for any existing class, even multiclass as my swackbuckler and scout threads

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?390090-Modified-Swashbuckler-Archetype-%283-musketeers-genre
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?390089-Scout-Meta-archetype

or 2) A brand new class

I think 1) is the best choice. Your shifter should be good with something else than shifting, first of all: spellcasting or weapons fighting; otherwise, play a monster! And it is hard to assess a correct PC level equivalency for a MM monster as CR is a measure of how a mnster is tough against 3-5 players for a very short time (combat). I have a thread about how to emulate shapeshifters monsters as race (dopperganger and succubus)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?390233-Monsters-as-PC-The-Doppelganger-Troll-Satyr-Medusa-Minotaur-and-succubus&p=18585768#post18585768

The shifter should first be able to shift a existing monsters forms without class features, then with features. It is hard to sort out on the spot what features are innate (ex: fly) from those learned (ex: mutiattack). I can worjk on it if you want, need some critique then...

Or see http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367760-Shifter-homebrew-class from Prophet_of_IO